User talk:Lazybugger13A

I have started to transfer some of the information from my former ID to my new discussion pages.

The following are test pages for the next Malaysian General Elections.

(At this moment I am quite unhappy with the Election tables as they don't contain a lot of information. Right now there is no notes column to state which MP or State Assembly person left/pass away or if it changed hands during a by-election or state election. We should put in extra information on who is the election opponent of the winner of the seat. I know it is going to be lots of work, but I am game for this. My feeling is that the election results should remain as they are and that if there are new updates because of by-elections those should be inserted into different state representative tables)

Past templates

There were some election tables where it was not clear which BN candidates belong to their respective component parties, especially those from Sabah and Sarawak. My aim is to create separate state assembly tables and a new parliamentary table for the 13th Parliament of Malaysia. Its quite a lot of work, but I am game for this.

Here are the following pages which I got and will use for reference for updating with new election articles with the new table templates designs:

There is going to be a State Assembly election declared in Sarawak sometime in 2011 which I will try to implement using the new design templates. But currently there is talk of the state elections running concurrently with a snap general elections, so I putting this on hold.(Regarding the election in Sarawak in 2011 I did learn a couple of new things. First there were some editors who taught me new ways to format the election summaries and results tables. Secondly I did comparisons of the Sarawak election tables (with extra information) with the Australian general election articles and found out the the Malaysian articles gave a better perspective and understanding to the reader.

I also would like to have polls inserted into Malaysian election articles similar to the US and Australian elections as well.(That might have to wait until I can find different types of pollster organisations. eg Merdeka Centre)

Because of the upcoming delineation exercise in 2014 there might be a number of new seats for both state and parliament constituencies coming up. We might also see some seats being merged which might affect some of electors and election results tables.

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Use of your template

I took the liberty to implement your template for the GE13 results to my article "Parlamentswahlen in Malaysia 2013" (General Elections in Malaysia 2013) in the German branch of Wikipedia. I gave the correct credits in the version history. However, the table is still commented out and invisible. Thank you for this good work. Cheers, --Cccefalon (talk • contribs) 06:12, 23 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Malaysian MPs

Firstly kudos on the good work. Howver, I have changed the name of the page to something more consistent with title formats as the one that had a capital letter on each word is not WP format. I also merged Members of the Dewan Rakyat, 13th Malaysian Parliament with List of Members of Parliament in the 13th Dewan Negara as the content is the same )(also we don't need thte title to say DR and that it is the Malaysian parliament,(Lihaas (talk) 20:26, 5 May 2013 (UTC)).[reply]

Template:Malaysian_general_election_state_results,_2013

Hi Lazybugger13,

Thanks for your hard work adding the state election results.

I note that you removed the total's +/- column as in

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Malaysian_general_election_state_results,_2013&diff=554452612&oldid=554437116

Is it because the table is too wide on your browser? I think that column is useful because it shows the changes in the number of seats for each state (and in total).

Thanks, cmɢʟee୯ ͡° ̮د ͡° ੭ 18:37, 10 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
For your great effort in populating the tables in State Election Results of the 2013 Malaysian General Elections! 
cmɢʟee୯ ͡° ̮د ͡° ੭ 12:38, 15 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Kudos too for constantly updating the current parliamentarians and state assembly members! Whether in actual articles or in your test pages, your updates are really useful for me to keep track of changes since the general elections.
I hope when we add seats (confirmed for Sarawak but unsure for others), people who update the articles like us won't get confused. ;) Hytar (talk) 07:50, 16 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Use of colours in tables

Colour Sample
#CED4F2 BN (UMNO)
#F2CECE PR (DAP)
#CEF2CE PR (PAS)
#CEF2F2 PR (PKR)
#F2F2CE SAPP (PMS)
#ECCEF2 STAR (PRN)

Hi there. I notice you edit a few tables on the recent Malaysian election results. I appreciate your hard work, but I find the use of colours to be a bit excessive. I know that those background colours help us identify the parties that the candidates represent, but in some cases it makes the text hard to read. There is also inconsistent use of colours.

OK, enough with my style rant. Here are my suggestions:

  • Only place bgcolor at the last column (Party/Coalition).
  • Try a (slightly) different colour as in the table on the right, which I base from Help:Using colours.

Hope you find this useful. I'm open to opinions. Hytar (talk) 18:15, 3 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

By the way, I hope you can decide quickly, because someone is trying to change the colours in this article. I'll just say... those were not good choices of colours. Hytar (talk) 13:17, 3 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Template:Malaysian elections

Hello Lazybugger13. Please do not add all the individual by-elections and state elections to the main national templates. They are supposed to contain only national elections (see {{Italian elections}} as an example). The by-elections and state elections have their own templates ({{Malaysian by-elections}} and {{Malaysian state elections}} respectively). Thanks, Number 57 19:02, 20 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The template is part of a series for all countries, and contains a standard set of information. Please respect this and stop reverting. Thanks, Number 57 19:04, 20 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
We are not talking about the display of election results in an article, we are talking about the template. Election result tables vary according to country because elections are held in different methods; this is not relevant to our current discussion. Number 57 19:07, 20 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
What? No, that's not how consensus works. You need to get consensus to vary from the standard format. I am also concerned about your reference to "other editors who are editing Malaysian political articles and templates", as this suggests you believe certain editors have a level of WP:OWNership. Number 57 19:14, 20 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If you are not talking about ownership, why are you suggesting I can only edit templates of other countries? Number 57 19:22, 20 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Italy also has different regional elections in different years, yet {{Italian elections}} is set out in the standard way. There is simply no need for individual state elections or by-elections to be listed in the main template. The state elections and by-elections can still be accessed through the main template without them being listed there. By-elections are typically listed as a single link at the bottom of the template (see e.g. {{PEIElections}}). Number 57 14:14, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't have any broken links. However, I presume you actually mean red links? This just means the articles have not been created yet. If you can give me a good source for Malaysian state election results, I would be quite happy to create them though. Number 57 15:13, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
If you could provide me with a source, I will sort it out. If Sarawak was the only state to have an election in 2011, I will link directly to that one (as is done on the Italian template). Number 57 15:25, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As you can now see on {{Malaysian elections}}, the off-year elections are linked independently. Also, "Malaysian states elections" does not make sense. Number 57 15:50, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The article shows the results of the elections; this is all we have for many elections (see, for example, Seychellois parliamentary election, 1970). The only time we have titles like "State election results of the Malaysian general election, 2013" is if they are a content fork from a main article – however, in this case there is no main article. Number 57 15:58, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
It's the same layout as {{Italian elections}}. It isn't a mess, and the national template is not for breaking into sections. Similarly, {{United Kingdom elections}} links to local elections by year, even though in some cases they only took place in one part of the country (usually England, which has annual elections). Number 57 15:59, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If you want to create a shorter article at Malaysian state elections, 2013 and have an expanded set of results at Results of the Malaysian state elections, 2013, you're more than welcome to do so. However, if there is no other article to take the place of what is currently at Malaysian state elections, 2013, then it should remain where it is. Number 57 16:03, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

But it does work here. I am off now, but will finish creating most of the rest of the state election articles later – you will be able to see that it is easily accessible. Perhaps rather than complaining about the template layout, you could contribute some content too. Any attempts to remove the main template from articles will be reverted though. Please don't play games. Cheers, Number 57 16:09, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Completely separate from this, please do not make WP:Cut and paste moves as you did with the 2013 article, because it means the article history is lost. You can only move articles using the move tab. If this does not work, you have to use the WP:RM process or ask an admin to make the move. Thanks, Number 57 20:05, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I also see you did this with the 2008 article. Please follow the WP:RM process as above. Thanks, Number 57 20:08, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Update: Someone has already started the RM process – you can comment at Talk:Malaysian state elections, 2008 and Talk:Malaysian state elections, 2013. I've also now completed the set of articles on state elections, so hopefully that goes some way to addressing your concerns. I will have a crack at some of the local election articles, as I found a useful source for a couple of them. Cheers, Number 57 21:56, 23 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Next State Assembly Election Results and Next Parliament Elections Results

Hi, I think the template for the next state assembly election results and next parliament elections results should follow the one for the Results of the 2013 Malaysian general election by state constituency and Results of the 2013 Malaysian general election by parliamentary constituency as it is more comprehensive with percentage of votes and demography breakdown etc. Could you make a new template for the next election according to the 2013 one? Dapmembers (talk) 02:59, 27 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Dapmembers, I would love to improve the templates to incorporate new features, but I feel it is just overkill when adding the percentages and demographic breakdowns, etc. I will leave it to the other editors to add the misc stuff, which I will leave alone.Lazybugger13 (talk) 05:54, 27 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Reply

I will try to help you, and I still have Chinese Wikipedia waiting for me to do. If you want to do it, it's better to start now.

Another thing, ccording to MOS:OLINK, that BM-UMNO does not need to put internal links on it, just put a party list on the page. angys (Talk Talk) 14:17, 13 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Your list I will complete for Penang first. Not sure for other because I still have a lot of stuff to be put “former” in Chinese Wikipedia. Thanks for your initiative. angys (Talk Talk) 05:51, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Instaed of putting (). Better do a new row for it. e.g. Name | Coalition | Party angys (Talk Talk) 18:20, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we need another column. Easer to put the party and coalition in one column.Lazybugger13A (talk) 01:56, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
(talk page stalker) Sorry for interrupting, but I feel the sentence order in the table section of "Party (Coalition)" in this article seems weird since the one in the bracket supposedly for party coalition (example Pakatan Harapan? Not party name. It should be like this "Coalition (Party)". Molecule Extraction (talk) 19:05, 12 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that sounds right. We should change it to Coalition (Party).Lazybugger13A (talk) 01:56, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Results of the 2018 Malaysian general election by state constituency

Hi, I have moved your page to Draft:Results of the 2018 Malaysian general election by state constituency, as it is not suitable yet for mainspace, having no election or results yet. I was really hoping to see the result there, but there is not future forecast yet! You are welcome to move it back once there are some real numbers. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 07:22, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that. Will start to move that draft to the main article when the elections come up. Lazybugger13A (talk) 08:34, 15 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
Thanks for helping to expand Malaysian election articles. Your help are very much appreciated. Molecule Extraction (talk) 10:20, 10 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Re

Please noted that they use PKR symbol so should use blue for them like in election, my line already listed and there is no necessary to change it IMHO. Same thing goes to MCA if them use their symbol and therefore not BN colour but MCA colour angys (Talk Talk) 13:27, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I also know that, but we should follow the vote papar, not their coalition unless their coalition use their symbol. same case for upcoming Balakong by-election if DAP use own flag. angys (Talk Talk) 14:34, 22 July 2018 (UTC) Please noted that they use PKR flag as their symbol. If you really don't want to listen to what I said, please revert again, although I think this is very unreasonable, they are not using the "Pakatan Harapan" party logo, IMHO. angys (Talk Talk) 14:39, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have reverted the colour change. I have made my stance clear on the PH colour to be used for the election box. We are already using the following - List of Malaysian State Assembly Representatives (2018–). There should be some standard. Lazybugger13A (talk) 14:41, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Better write a letter to SPR tell them about this question, just do whatever you want and then next time GPS and GS election should use their coalition colour if you so keen of this. angys (Talk Talk) 14:43, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

We don't need to go back and forth with these semantics regarding writing to the SPR. We are just upholding standards in regards to these election articles and past articles on Malaysian elections. Lazybugger13A (talk) 14:45, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Plus the infobox shown “Party” and not “coalition”. The upcoming Sarawak election for both GPS and PH should follow this since what you said to prevent any double standard. angys (Talk Talk) 14:48, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes by all means if the upcoming Sarawak elections is going to be between GPS and PH, we will be using the GPS and PH colours in the election box. Hope that clears things.Lazybugger13A (talk) 14:50, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Haola, just go ahead and for Balakong MCA colour should be BN colour whether they use their party logo or dacing logo. Politicians always like to do some strange tactics. angys (Talk Talk) 14:53, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Another thing, can you make a vector map for both Sungai Kandis and Balakong by election like File:2016NewTerritoriesEastbyelectionbydistrict.svg in Hong Kong? Feel free to upload the poster around SK if you been there. angys (Talk Talk) 14:59, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I will try to make a map from my previous resources. Just give me some time to do so.Lazybugger13A (talk) 17:14, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
If can better in svg formar, and I think you should change Balakong one because now it is under Bangi constituency, thanks for your attention angys (Talk Talk) 23:05, 22 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You should see this, someone are trying to change PH into PKR. angys (Talk Talk) 01:17, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hello everyone! I already put these reliable sources from AGC official portal. Hope you can access these links and verify those GE-14 election results, especially the PKR symbol that was printed on the ballot papers. |-

|colspan=7 style="border-top:1px solid darkgray;"|

Source(s)

[http://www.federalgazette.agc.gov.my/outputp/pub_20180504_P.U.%20%28B%29%20233%20KEDAH.pdf "His Majesty's Government Gazette - Notice of Contested Election, Parliament for the State of Kedah [P.U. (B) 233/2018]"]. Attorney General's Chambers of Malaysia. 3 May 2018. Retrieved 2018-08-01. {{cite web}}: Check |url= value (help)

[http://www.federalgazette.agc.gov.my/outputp/pub_20180530_P.U.%20%28B%29%20307%20-%20PARLIMEN%20KEDAH.pdf "Federal Government Gazette - Results of Contested Election and Statements of the Poll after the Official Addition of Votes, Parliamentary Constituencies for the State of Kedah [P.U. (B) 307/2018]"]. Attorney General's Chambers of Malaysia. 28 May 2018. Retrieved 2018-08-01. {{cite web}}: Check |url= value (help)

Panji Keramat (talk) 01:27, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Please noted that your recent edit has remove some of these information.
  1. code for the seat: e.g. Padang Besar (P001) to make reader can identify its coding.
  2. fed rep link should fill PH, not the MP's party as now PH is reconized by RoS (BN also, please dont use UMNO).
  3. Represent history, use their own party
  4. result, use PH (2018) instead of PKR, PH (2018) that means PH party candidates use PKR logo as their colour is actually red and should use PH (2018) per WP:CONSISTENCY angys (Talk Talk) 01:31, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

For your information, it is not a compulsory for the candidates to be a member of any political party, although it is common for the political party member contest using their party symbol on the ballot paper. However it is not always true for all candidates, as you can see that it is just enough that they (including non-party members) have the endorsement and permission from the specific political party to allow them to use their EC-registered symbol. Panji Keramat (talk) 01:49, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

In #GE14, hundreds of non-members of PKR(Pakatan Harapan-endorsed candidates) contested using PKR party symbol on the ballot papers with PKR's endorsement and permission. Not only PKR, but it also happen in BN and PAS. There are some non-members of PAS(Gagasan Sejahtera-endorsed candidates) contested using PAS party symbol on the ballot papers with PAS's endorsement and permission. Panji Keramat (talk) 02:02, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Recurring issue of Pakatan Harapan's colors

Hi @Lazybugger13A:. Could you help me out on this recurring issue of Pakatan Harapan's colors (whether it should be red or light blue)? This very issue had been resolved at Talk:Malaysian general election, 2018 and accordingly, I reverted an edit at Bayan Lepas (state constituency) by user *angys* per WP:CONSISTENCY. But my account was blocked instead. Regardless of whether I should be blocked, this issue is not going away just because I have been blocked. The root of the problem still persists.

I have started a discussion regarding this issue at User talk:Molecule Extraction#Pakatan Harapan colors: Is it red or light blue?. I am sure you would agree with me that, based on past discussions, we need to standardise Pakatan Harapan's color scheme for use in all Wikipedia pages. We need to put this matter to rest once and for all, instead of allowing unilateral edits by an editor who probably wishes to railroad his POV against consensus. BrundtBank (talk) 01:00, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Lazybugger13A: Thanks much, dude =).
On another note, I do have a few questions about Wikipedia. Can I e-mail you on that (I prefer somewhere more discreet)? BrundtBank (talk) 03:00, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@BrundtBank: - You can put your questions here. I am an open book.Lazybugger13A (talk) 07:42, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Need for advice

@Lazybugger13A: Allright then. Actually I did notice that you had previous Wiki accounts which were banned for some reason. I am currently facing a similar predicament. But I am really into contributing constructively on Wikipedia with facts & figures. Hence my new account. Do you have any advice about how to deal with this issue (especially having to start from ground up again)? How did you cope with it? And not to mention certain pesky editors who insist on having their own way (or the highway, eventhough their opinions are debatable). Really, thanks. =) BrundtBank (talk) 08:15, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@BrundtBank: - Just take things in your stride and don't get into edit warring or heated arguments. There is no rules that say you can't have many accounts to do your editing( though some editors might disagree) Some editors just have separate accounts to edit one or two different articles. Always try to save your info or templates in different talk pages or in a different account. That way if you run afoul of some moderators or admin guys, you have a fall back option. In my opinion, the Wikipedia moderator system is broken. If I try to plead my case to unban an account, there will be 3 or 4 different admin guys dealing with you who have no clue what they are doing. Lazybugger13A (talk) 10:08, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@BrundtBank: Thanks alot =). I will keep your advice in mind... though I am also considering giving up for good too. Seems that *angys* is more intent on having me blocked rather than answering my queries. Pretty sure that constitutes WP:POVRAILROAD, but if blocking me is the wish of Wikipedia admins, then I really don't have a say, do I? BrundtBank (talk) 10:33, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

August 2018

Information icon Please do not use styles that are unusual, inappropriate or difficult to understand in articles. There is a Manual of Style, and edits should not deliberately go against it without special reason. Please check Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Icons#Historical_considerations before posting any comment about consistency of flags at the Pakatan Harapan . There is a consensus that we would use historical flags at articles when the flag changed. We use historical flags (the flags that was used at that time, for example, USSR / CIS flags before 1992). At this, it means that the Malaysian General Election 2018 should use the PKR flag instead of the current red flag. Shall there be any questions, feel free to contact me. 1233Talk 14:43, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@1233: - In no way did I used any different styles or flags in the articles which you mentioned. We are only looking at consistency when it comes to colour templates for the political parties. There are individuals who keep insisting on using individual party logo colours instead of coalition colour templates. I hope that clears matters for you. For list of MPs and state assemblymen, the colours have been made consistent. Same with the new by-election articles. Lazybugger13A (talk) 16:19, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes there is: you get the consistency before and after the flag change. It is common sense for Malaysians that the PH used the PKR's flag at the election at May. This means that, at that time, the PH should actually use things that are on the ballot box - the blue eye but not the Pakatan Harapan flag. Consistency is not what you mean, it means consistency with the history. It is logical for them to use the red colour as it is the officially used colour now - but not at the election. Leave it as it is, This is the manual of style. --1233Talk 16:39, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@1233: - I have already explained the situation in a couple of discussion threads. The coalition colour templates is here to stay in future by-election or election articles. This was agreed upon by a couple of editors in the past. We are not going to change the coalition colour templates just because parties feel they wish to use their own logo. I have reverted the edit in the Sungai Kandis by-election article. Lazybugger13A (talk) 16:45, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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About Template of DUN

Please noted that I create {{List of Perlis State Assembly Representatives (2018–)}} and others is because oftenly only the main page will update while the state's page still outdated. If you feel it is a little bit hard to edit, I had add navbar button into it. For the post column actually is more clearly because if follow the older style there will be some assemblyman's row become bigger and not tidy. It is neccessary to put at side thus all assemblyman's row would be same and able to sort. Hope you know that, thank you. angys (Talk Talk) 07:31, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's unnecessary to create different templates. For newer editors who might want to change or make updates it will be difficult for them to locate the templates. Rather it is much better to have all the tables in the same page for editors to make a quick edit. Also it is not really important to have a column for ministry or exco posts. Lazybugger13A (talk) 07:36, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
IMHO they can click the navbar edit button, and prevent some vandalisme on their party.
Also it is not really important to have a column for ministry or exco posts. I think it would be better to be a new column than to put it in the line. Maybe we should invite more people to discuss about this issue. angys (Talk Talk) 07:51, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's much easier to have the tables for each state in the main article. Rather than creating numerous templates for every different state, that is pretty self explanatory. Plus what happens when there is an election coming up for Sarawak later on or the general election in 2023. Don't tell me you create another template for each and every state. Its pretty much unnecessary. For the extra column issue, I pretty much am against it. For the fact the posts or ministry assignments is just pretty much extraneous information. But if people want information on the job positions of certain assemblymen then so be it and I am willing to entertain that. Lazybugger13A (talk) 10:02, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I haven't had time to create template for each state. If you think this is ok, then please remember to update it instantly (including the state legislature) Since you said the posts or ministry assignments is just pretty much extraneous information, I hope you can adjust it so that it will not become 2 rows (by putting the < br >), thank you. angys (Talk Talk) 12:27, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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about backdoor incident

Hello, can you create a new article (named 2020 Malaysian reform crisis) for this incident just like someone had did on zh.wiki? zh:2020年马来西亚政府重组危机 angys (Talk Talk) 08:56, 24 February 2020 (UTC) --Created-- angys (Talk Talk) 16:46, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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August 2020

Information icon Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you tried to give a page a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into another page with a different name. This is known as a "cut-and-paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Wikipedia has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page (the tab may be hidden in a dropdown menu for you). This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Wikipedia:Requests for history merge. Thank you. Paul_012 (talk) 10:00, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The cut and paste more was to save time. The article is meant to have the English translation name not the Malay name: United Sarawak Party. Hope that explains the issue.Lazybugger13A (talk) 16:24, 17 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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