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January 2012
Hello Dervorguilla. We welcome your contributions to Wikipedia, but if you are affiliated with some of the people, places or things you have written about in the article MIT Crime Club, you may have a conflict of interest or close connection to the subject.
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Good points, Cindamuse. I think you can understand why I took pains to include the most relevant information in my User Page.
Special Interests … • MIT Crime Club (past member & project-team advisor) Full Disclosure of Interests I declare that neither I nor any member of my immediate family has a significant financial interest in any … entity discussed in my edits or in any competing … entity.
The Club’s activities have been reported on at length by the Boston Globe, Boston Herald, Boston Magazine, and PI Magazine.
I have no current affiliation with the Club. And I don’t attend its meetings. I do seem to have a relatively encyclopedic knowledge of the “factual information [in] third-party articles” about the group.
I do have a real or seeming COI: I’m a past member and advisor of the group, and I’ve sponsored projects led by other members. Fargen (June 2009) and Schwartz (Sept. 2009) have identified me as “one leader of the group” and as “the club’s ringleader these days.” (The information is no longer current; I haven’t been a leader since Jan. 2010.)
In accordance with WP:COI I’m going to (a) submit a proposed edit for review on the article’s talk page along with a Request edit or (b) file a request for comment. I’ll be doing so for one year or, if appropriate, indefinitely. (The policy does not apply to noncontroversial edits.) --Dervorguilla (talk) 19:58, 5 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
You are receiving this message either because you expressed an opinion about the proposed SOPA blackout before full blackout and soft blackout were adequately differentiated, or because you expressed general support without specifying a preference. Please ensure that your voice is heard by clarifying your position accordingly.
From what I see in official material, United States Senate, United States House of Representatives and United States Congress appear to be proper names as opposed to {adjective-noun} combinations of consequence. There's also a ratio of about 32:1 for "United States Congress" as opposed to "U.S. Congress" in the collective literature indexed by Google Books, and our series of articles on the subject (i.e., 112th United States Congress) follows suit. Out of curiosity, how certain are you that it's grammatically desirable to interchange part of a proper name with an abbreviated adjective of equivalence? — C M B J07:24, 16 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
“U.S. Congress” is preferred in running text. I think “United States Congress” is more likely to be used in stand-alone phrases (like document titles).
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Gregg Reference Manual ¶ 525 (11th ed. 2011)
The name United States is usually abbreviated when it is part of the name of a government agency.
U.S. Department of Agriculture
U.S. Air Force
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Chicago Manual of Style ¶ 10.33 (16th ed. 2010) (periods added)
“U.S.” versus “United States.” In running text, spell out United States as a noun; reserve U.S. for the adjective form only (in which position the abbreviation is generally preferred).
U.S. dollars
U.S. involvement in China
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Associated Press Stylebook (44th ed. 2009)
Congress. Capitalize “U.S. Congress” and “Congress” ….
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Also, do you think the MIT police report as part of the court case is considered a published document, as required for all sources including primary ones?
A guide here is WP:Published. It's not guideline/policy but still might be insightful. My general preference is still to rely on secondary sources wherever possible, but this has nonetheless gotten me thinking. Maybe we should ask for some feedback at the article talk page. Cheers, Ocaasit | c19:26, 22 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Can you please explain what you are trying to do with the article Aaron Schwartz? If you don't believe that Schwartz played a Czech officer in a movie when he was 4 years old, and a forensic pathologist when he was 6 years old (and I don't believe that, either), then why did you add that information to the article? [1][2] --Metropolitan90(talk)21:06, 16 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Warning about edit warring
Your recent editing history at Aaron Swartz shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
1. I performed onetwo reverts or restores. WP:3RR 2. The material I restored was taken from ref 1 of 1 in the Aaron Schwartz BLP. 3. All other material in the BLP was taken from the same ref 1 of 1. 4. The material was not contentious. 5. I was a minor contributor to the Blackout page (seeUser:Dervorguilla) and have been the leading contributor to the Aaron Swartz BDP. 6. The block proposal may have been caused to be made by a person who has a financial interest that could be significantly harmed by my ongoing contribution to the BDP. WP:BLOCK#NOTPUNITIVE Dervorguilla (talk) 02:23, 17 February 2013 (UTC) Dervorguilla (talk) 06:24, 17 February 2013 (UTC) ((“one revert or restore” –> “two reverts or restores,” in accord with Bbb23’s first point, below))[reply]
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Because of Devorguilla's change of their unblock request after my decline, in my view Devorguilla reverted four times in the article. I make this point for Devorguilla's benefit; again, they would do well to read very carefully the WP:3RR policy and, in particular, what constitutes a revert.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:43, 17 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).
In Bbb23’s comment, he graciously acknowledges that when he issued his Unblock Request Decline, his view was that Dervorguilla had not yet reverted four times. He recommends that Dervorguilla carefully read the 3RR policy. She’s done so, and it directly supports his point that she hadn’t reverted four times.
Administrators are now asked to grant Dervorguilla’s third Unblock Appeal, based in part on the new evidence.
___
The three-revert rule. WP:3RR. A “revert” means any edit that reverses the actions of other editors, in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material. It can involve as little as one word.… 3RR exemptions. WP:3RRNO. The following actions are not counted as reverts for the purposes of 3RR: … removal of … poorly sourced contentious material that violates the policy on biographies of living persons.
II. The third edit isn’t a revert. It doesn’t remove any words, nor does it restore any that had been removed. (4 − 1 = 3 edits.)
III. The first edit removes poorly sourced contentious material from the biography of a living person. It doesn’t remove sourced material. (3 − 1 = 2 revert edits.)
− “Occupation: Actor”
→ “Occupation: former Film Actor; Location Assistant”
− “Years active: 1989–present”
→ "Years active: 1985–present”
− “an American actor who is best known”
→ “a former film actor best known”
− “In addition to his two film roles, Aaron played Clem Lanell in eight episodes of The Adventures of Pete & Pete, and appeared in one episode of The Cosby Show. He has a recurring role on the CW’s Gossip Girl as the doorman, Vanya.[1]”
1. ^ Aaron Schwartz Filmography - Yahoo! Movies [corrected URL]
-- Dervorguilla (talk) 01:36, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.
Out of compassion, I'd like to point out that you were blocked for 24 hours at 00:46, 17 February 2013 (UTC) and it is now 01:49, 18 February 2013. Have you tried editing? :-) Yworo (talk) 01:49, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In the interest of clarity but particularly editor education, first, I never acknowledged that Dervorguilla did not revert 4x, and in my comment after the decline, I said she had, although I will acknowledge that one of the reverts is hypertechnical (the third) and would probably not be counted as a revert by most admins. Second, I think it's great that she reread 3RR, but her analysis of it is incorrect, in particular with respect to the first edit. Dervorguilla is implicitly invoking the BLP exemption from edit-warring. That's generally a very difficult exemption to use ("What counts as exempt under BLP can be controversial. Consider reporting to the BLP noticeboard instead of relying on this exemption.") and in this case doesn't apply - at least I wouldn't accept it. So, at best, Dervorguilla reverted 3x, and as Bushranger correctly notes, she was blocked for edit-warring, not for breaching 3RR, and she was blocked based on the discussion at WP:ANI, which is why I noted in my decline that her edits were disruptive.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:09, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
“You can still be blocked for edit warring … should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.”
Good point about the behavior.
Dervorguilla begins editing in January ’08. No behavioral disorders. Somehow she and David in DC end up at the top of the Frequent Users list at Aaron Swartz, along with HectorMoffet and MarkBernstein. On January 19 a visitor stops by and immediately goes to 3RR with Nomoskedasticity (who comments: “I prefer not to go to the limit of 3RR as you have, so I won't revert for now.”).
On February 14 the visitor comes back and makes a string of flawless punc/fm edits. Two days later he reverts MarkBernstein at the top of the page, gets reverted by Dervorguilla, and goes to 3RR again — while warning everyone on the page — twice — that he intends to keep on reverting. This after Dervorguilla shows him and some other sophisticated editors that the hatnoted stub had been an unexploded bomb (UXB) from day one.
22:19, 16 February 2013 Yworo . . (+34) . . (the problem is not with the hatnote, but the article pointed to; don't shoot the messenger, fix the problem)
08:20, 16 February 2013 Dervorguilla . . (-34) . . (Undid revision 538517811 by Yworo. REDFLAG, says he began working as an actor at age 4. (In 'Eleni,' as Czech Officer.))
05:30, 16 February 2013 Yworo . . (+34) . . (WP:SIMILAR, don't like it? Change Aaron Schwartz or nominate it for deletion; as it stands, a hatnote is correct)
03:50, 16 February 2013 Dervorguilla . . (-34) . . (rm 'For the actor, see Aaron Schwartz.' Schwartz isn't an actor. Erroneous BLP, see Talk. Do not revert.)
23:13, 15 February 2013 Yworo . . (+33) . . (disagree, commonly confused spellings, recency of addition has no bearing on the usefulness of the hatnote)
23:08, 15 February 2013 MarkBernstein . . (-33) . . (Remove disambiguation tag; it was only added recently and it seems unlikely that many people will find it useful)
I’m not giving away any secrets here, folks. The problem is not with Yworo. He did get the stub fixed. It might even end up being more authoritative than the Swartz article. ;)
You may want to take a look at WP:ARCHIVE, which explains how to archive your talk page. You can do this manually, with user space subpages, or you can set up automatic archiving, Do an edit on my talk page to see the archiving code I have set up, which automatically archives any sections that are more than 30 days old. It's at the top just under the comment <!-- {{busy}} -->. Also, there is no rule that prevents you from simply removing the whole section above with the block notices. Archiving is preferred, especially for discussion related to article content, but is not required. I blank some things and let the rest be archived automatically. Cheers. Yworo (talk) 00:57, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
In this case the ‘rewind’ analogy is to a CD-R, not a CD-ROM or film. To speak more plainly: Does anyone here know how to suppress the material (as if by overwriting it)? For a helpful summary see WP:Oversight. About fifty admins have oversight authority, let’s see whether any respond. --Dervorguilla (talk) 04:23, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No, I don't think it can be oversighted. IIRC, user pages and other user space pages can be deleted on request, except for user talk pages, because they form a record of conversations and warnings, etc. Not sure where to find that policy though, perhaps WP:USERSPACE? It's no biggie, everybody gets blocked once, even me. Kept my record clean for a number of years, then somebody misunderstood something I'd said. To be fair, if I'd meant what they thought I did it would have been deserved, but I didn't. Just blank it. If somebody outed your name, credit card number or even the identify of your other Wikipedia accounts, you could probably get that oversighted, but this you should just blank, IMO. They can't erase the block log, either. Yworo (talk) 04:52, 19 February 2013 (UTC) Struck. --Dervorguilla (talk) 05:02, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Just FYI, you're allowed to remove my comments, but you are not allowed to strike or modify them, even on your own talk page. Yworo (talk) 05:28, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Nah.... just trying to save you potential trouble in the future. You could always unstrike it, you would simply be reversing your own edit. :-) Yworo (talk) 05:50, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Saving trouble can be almost as much fun as causing it! If you’d like, you could strike the posts at 13 and 15–16 and then have me hide/show, archive, or blank all three topics (and this one). Just sayin’! --Dervorguilla (talk) 06:11, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have no problem with you simply removing my comments after you've read them. Feel free to remove this whole section, since I misunderstood what you were asking and it serves no real purpose. Yworo (talk) 06:13, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
What I’m really asking is whether you’d be wiiling to strike the posts in 13 & 15–16, without any implication as to their merit. ‘Struck without prejudice’ or whatever. Neither the posting nor the striking could be used for any purpose, except by you. --Dervorguilla (talk) 06:48, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dervorguilla, you can remove entries to your talkpage, or blank the entire page if you like. The edits will still be in the history - Oversight/Suppression is only for removing text within very limited parameters, mainly personally revealing information or information which could pose a legal threat to the project. I recommend you remove entries you dont want, rather than ask other parties to remove their posts. Elen of the Roads (talk) 18:43, 19 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Keep it up
If you keep up your disruptive editing, I'll be quite happy to get you blocked again. You may want to be aware that the length of block doubles every time. An indefinite block isn't that far away for you. Yworo (talk) 03:05, 22 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Is the automatic archiving of the Talk:Aaron Swartz page not working?
See Talk:Aaron Swartz: Revision history. The last text edit was on 6 March 2013. (The edits of 12 March 2013 are null edits.) The thread should have been archived on 6 April 2013.
MiszaBot I does work — but it doesn’t come by very often.
“21:42, 15 April 2013 Dervorguilla . . rm sec (old material, moved to archive) // 03:28, 12 April 2013 Dervorguilla . . (own error) (*This* sec should be archived as originally scheduled) // 03:11, 12 April 2013 Dervorguilla . . nx // 00:41, 5 April 2013 MiszaBot I . . (Robot: Archiving 1 thread (older than 30d) to Talk:Aaron Swartz/Archive 1.) // 04:41, 6 March 2013 Dervorguilla . . (humorous aside) // 13:42, 5 March 2013 David in DC . . (spacing and spelling)”
I guess I don't understand why you're manually moving content to Archive 1....that last move looks like it should have been to Archive 2, plus if editors think that the archiving should take place more often the timeframe can be set to something other than one month or whatever. The bot works perfectly fine on other pages...something must be wrong with the code on this particular page...
In any case, the posts are out of order. Archive 1 should be earliest, Archive 2 should be later...I am going to try to fix the most recent addition to Archive 1 - at the very least it should be in Archive 2.
Looks like the counter was set incorrectly plus the page size might have been set to too large of a size... I'll see if I can fix it. Please don't manually archive any posts for the next several days....let's see if the bot will start working now that the code is (hopefully) fixed, give the bot a chance to catch up. Shearonink (talk) 06:54, 16 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Where the sub-article is clearly linked, a subsection of the main article is supposed to be a summary of the linked article -- thus I removed all the stuff you added to both articles. Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:11, 30 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW
MarkBernstein" is at "Eastgate Systems" and announced at [3] that his company (Tekka with the same location) was publiching a book by ... Aaron Swartz. (Aaron Swartz, the 17-year-old who has for years been an established expert on metadata and the semantic Web, is writing a book called Small Is Beautiful that will debut here.). Cheers - I think he might conceivable be "involved" in the article. Collect (talk) 11:11, 2 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I'm busy right now as program chair of ACM Web Science 2013. I think I'll let my reputation take care of itself. I've written about Swartz. My firm published some of his writing. But of course he was an important person in this branch of computer science and had a broad circle of acquaintance; lots of people knew and worked with him. MarkBernstein (talk) 07:53, 3 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Dervorguilla, do you mind if I wrap your comment in this part of the Talk:Aaron Swartz page in a {{divbox}} so it's more clear? Then I can unbox mine and MarkBernstein's comments and we can proceed as usual? (Note that it is slightly tricky because you can't use a normal equals-sign (=) inside the divbox template, so your blockquote styling would require adjustment). I just wanted to ask permission before reformatting your talk page comments since this is an area of heightened sensitivity. jhawkinson (talk) 21:22, 17 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
No longer necessary. I understand that I was blocked for (obvious) edit-warring. (Also, shameless baiting of user M.B., who ended up being admonished even though he didn’t intend to get into a war. And I believe him: he’s been contributing for nearly seven years and this was his first admonition.) Accordingly: 1. I shall abstain from reverting content that one or more Talk editors repeatedly restore. 2. I shall abstain from editing the Swartz page for ten days. Sysop Ocaasi has pointed out to me that “where there is noise there is nonsense” (22 May 2013 19:36). Silence now reigns there; and it may be maintained for some time. On 21 May 2013 22:23, a regrettable incident occurred at my alternate account Talk. I accordingly believe that there will be no need for the contributing editor or me to make any further unsolicited remarks to or about each other on mainspace, Talk, User Talk, or elsewhere, in perpetuity. An affirmative step I can take to keep the issue from happening again: 3. I can learn about RfCs. I’d like to begin by making a contribution to the RfC, Should website names be italicized?: CMOS (2010) says, “General titles of websites are normally set in roman. Some websites share the name of a printed counterpart, and others (such as Wikipedia) are analogous to one of the types of works discussed elsewhere; these titles should be styled accordingly. ‘IMDb’, [but] ‘Encyclopaedia Britannica Online’, ‘Wikipedia’; ‘NYTimes.com’, [but] ‘the New York Times online’. Titles of named blogs, like the titles of periodicals, should be italicized: ‘The Becker-Posner Blog’.” (Interesting analogy!) The new APA Style Guide to Electronic References (2012) sets the names of websites and blogs in roman: “‘Facebook’, ‘the APA Style website’, ‘the APA Style Blog’”. Wikipedia falls in the “books” category: “Books … and Reference Books. This category also includes … reference works that are available online: … [Ex.] 24. Entry in Wikipedia: ‘Psychology. (n.d.). In Wikipedia. Retrieved May 17, 2011, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology’. Wikipedia is italicized because it is the name of a reference work. [Ex.] 25. Archived entry in Wikipedia: ‘Psychology. (2011, February 15). In Wikipedia. Retrieved from http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Psychology&oldid=413979409’. … [Ex.] 75. Facebook page or note: ‘Federal Emergency Management Agency. (ca. 2011). Fire safety …’” --Dervorguilla (talk) 08:46, 28 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Accept reason:
I shall unblock you based on the above promises and acknowledgments. Please bear in mind that if you violate any of the promises you've made, you may be blocked by me or any other admin without notice. Bbb23 (talk) 00:24, 29 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Apology and explanation
I chose the worst possible way to try to help you in a totally unrelated matter. I apologize. Please review my interaction with the admin you contacted here. here. David in DC (talk) 17:54, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Leaked email settles Silverglate/Keker dispute, ends Talk war
From: Henriette Campagne
To: "dervorguilla-w@yahoo.com"
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 3:55 PM
Subject: RE: Did MLW publish a front-page story about Swartz?
You may be referring to the page 1 story we published in the 2/18 issue, “Ortiz under fire: Critics say Swartz tragedy evidence of troublesome pattern at USAO”
I don’t believe we’ve written any other page 1 news stories specifically on the Swartz case.
Henriette
From: dervorguilla-w@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, May 31, 2013 3:45 PM
To: Henriette Campagne
Subject: Did MLW publish a front-page story about Swartz?
Dear Ms. Campagne:
I'm an occasional reader of your magazine. I'm writing to request information about a front-page story on Aaron Swartz that may have appeared not longer after the Silverglate column ran (issue 23). Do you recall whether MLW did publish such a story?
I thought I'd give you a heads up that I tweaked Aaron Schwartz. I wasn't sure what you meant by your question, if you just wanted to know what the columns were technically or if you were being protective of the article? --Widefox (talk) 09:56, 10 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
For not closing your <small> tag and shrinking half a page's worth of text. I think you may have been right about needing a break. Jackmcbarn (talk) 01:51, 31 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]
It was lovely to see you this weekend. Thank you for all of your efforts on the Aaron Swartz article, and the backhistory w/ the MIT police. (Are those docs appropriate for wikisource?) And thank you for sharing and working with us at the hackathon. I'm sorry I didn't have time to sit down and go over the article; unsurprising that it is still controversial. Ideally we would sync the tl;dr and timeline with the public articles, though they aren't in themselves citable.
Please provide reasoning in your edit summary for an undo - you are free to undo any of my edits but I have no idea why, and reason your 2nd undo with me on the talk page, else it feels a bit WP:OWN. Hope that helps, regards --Widefox (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Editing on Right Sector
Hi Dervorguilla, just wanted to thank you for your continued work at Right Sector. There hasn't been enough written yet by various mainstream/academic sources (it being a recent phenomenon), but you've done a great job making the article more professional! -Darouet (talk) 14:29, 16 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
What would you say to an RfC on the “neofascist views” question? Or to a new (sub)section that illustrates both the historical and the more current descriptions of the group in the press?
(For brevity, should we limit it to high-circulation periodicals?)
As I’ve said, you’re welcome to go beyond 3RR on reverting my edits, since I make so many of them and you’re usually the first one to spot the errors! Perhaps we should both make even more edits – but smaller ones. (So as to keep from vexing our readers.) --Dervorguilla (talk) 09:19, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Removing mainstream "neofascist" views description from Right Sector?
Hi Dervorguilla, in this edit you removed text and sources from the lead stating that Right Sector's political views are described as neo-fascist. This is despite the fact that we had a long discussion here on the talk page about it, to which you contributed, before arriving at a version we were all happy with. Previous versions included commentary from Die Welt, Le Monde Diplomatique, and Time (magazine) in addition to other sources like The Nation and The Guardian. In this edit you remove one on the basis of WP:CITEKILL while simultaneously noting that the view is a major one and therefore should be accorded WP:DUE weight. I think you should return the description to the lead citing major European papers, or otherwise explain your change on the talk page. -Darouet (talk) 19:32, 3 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Luhn, the author of the article in The Nation, appears to have stopped suggesting that the group is neo-Nazi or neofascist. He’s now calling it a “Ukrainian ultranationalist paramilitary group.” (As does the subject group itself.) --Dervorguilla (talk) 09:39, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Haaretz has a paid circulation of 130,000 in Israel and maybe 15,000 in the US so it’s not a “major publication” in terms of size or extent. It’s the newspaper of record in Israel, so it’s a major publication in Israel. It does not appear to have had any correspondents in Kiev. Also, the accuracy of the cited article has been questioned. --Dervorguilla (talk) 08:30, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The most current Guardian article calls it a “far-right Ukrainian nationalist group.” The authors also mention an incident where two Sektor boys were shot to death by pro-Russia demonstrators. Something to do with a “well-planned provocation by pro-Russian activists.” --Dervorguilla (talk) 07:52, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
That's a statement from Right Sector itself, and might be true, or might not be. I wouldn't be surprised either way.
You're quite right about TIME: my mistake. As to Le Monde Diplomatique however, I spent a year in France, and it's my understanding that it's one of the most highly respected political journals not only in France but throughout all of Europe. I could be wrong though and I'll ask about it at WP:RSN. -Darouet (talk) 15:58, 4 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, it seems that the TIME quote was changed, so that now it says nothing relevant to the article. The original quote, which can be found online, refers to Right Sector's politics as quasi-fascist. I hope it wasn't you who changed it? -Darouet (talk) 20:21, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
We agree, my dear Darouet, that the source in question (Le Monde Diplomatique) is indeed an RS and a highly respected mainstream publication. But is it a “major” publication compared with the six others listed? Meaning, is it as great in size, extent, or importance?
The adjectives capital, chief, major, principal apply to a main or leading representative of a kind.… Major may refer to greatness of importance, number, or quantity.
Would LMD even seek to be as great in size, extent of circulation, or importance (consequence) as the Russian News & Information Agency, Agence Press France, the Guardian, BBC News, Reuters, Time, or the Associated Press? Or would it prefer to be greater in quality?
One must also inquire as to whether the cited article is an ‘analysis’ (NEWSORG again):
News organizations
"News reporting" from well-established news outlets is generally considered to be reliable for statements of fact…. Analysis [articles] … are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that … author but are rarely reliable for statements of fact.
It seems quite clear that Le Monde Diplomatique is a major journal and reliable source, comparable perhaps to the American journal Foreign Policy. It's published under the aegis of Le Monde, one of the world's great news organization, and its editorial reputation seems clearly to be high. Clearly, if the notorious Time is a major, reliable source for foreign policy, Le Monde Diplomatique clears the bar. In context, it is a much weightier source than Time. MarkBernstein (talk) 15:43, 5 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
no edit is needed. Just as an characterization n in Kennan's famous Containment article in Foreign Policy cam be relied upon, there is no bar to relying on an this --especially as there seems no reason for doubt. MarkBernstein (talk) 12:13, 6 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Would you agree, MarkBernstein, that Time is greater in global ‘size’ than Le Diplo by 3,200,000 to perhaps 300,000? And in ‘extent’ as measured by number of reporters on site? And that the Guardian — one of the cited “major publications” — now calls the subject group “ultranationalist” or “far right nationalist” rather than “neofascist”? --Dervorguilla (talk) 02:08, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The Audit Bureau of Circulations released … a list of the top 25 magazines by paid and verified circulation.… Time stands alone as the one magazine dedicated even in part to political coverage.
When print and digital are combined, the Journal rises to the top … as the country’s most widely circulated daily newspaper, with an overall average circulation of nearly 2.3 million…. Across the pond, digital subscriptions at the paywall-protected Financial Times … outpaced its print circulation … and have now reached 310,000.
Identifying reliable sources is not a matter of figuring out total circulation. For instance, the British tabloid National Enquirer has a distribution equivalent to the newspaper The Daily Telegraph, and 5-10 times that of The Independent, even though both latter newspapers are regarded as high quality sources, and the first is not at all.
If one don't recognize a paper as either authoritative or not on the basis of one's experience with the news more generally, a good way to check on Wikipedia's view is to look on the reliable source noticeboard, where editors frequently ask about sources. There, you'll see that Le Monde Diplomatique is regarded as one of the highest quality publications in the world. -Darouet (talk) 14:50, 7 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You're right to point up the "circulation ≠ quality" issue, Darouet. It appears you're not the only one who's interested in the distinction. In the UK, the circulation-auditing agency divides newspapers into three classes: "popular" (tabloids); intermediate; and "quality". And the 5 biggest popular newspapers happen to have more paid subscriptions than the 5 biggest quality newspapers. So the term "major newspaper" could be arbitrarily limited to the 1 or 2 biggest quality newspapers.
The good news is that two of the three biggest (and sketchiest) tabloids were recently closed down. So the quality newspapers may be climbing the charts! --Dervorguilla (talk) 03:00, 9 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In any kind of fair election, that would be nearly impossible. Pravy Sektor’s ideology borders on fascism, and it enjoys support only from Ukraine’s most hard-line nationalists, a group too small to secure them a place in parliament. But taking part in the democratic process is not part of Yarosh’s strategy. “We are not politicians,” he says in his office, a pack of Lucky Strikes and a walkie-talkie on the table in front of him, while a sentry in a black ski mask and bulletproof vest stands by the door. “We are soldiers of the national revolution.” His entire adult life has been spent waiting for such a revolution to “steer the country in a new direction, one that would make it truly strong, not dependent on either the West or the East.”
Hello! There is a DR/N request you may have interest in.
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help find a resolution. The thread is "Right Sector".
Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you! EarwigBotoperator / talk21:20, 23 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Dervorguilla, I've just opened a dispute resolution case here on the dispute resolution noticeboard. You can see that I lay out my case there. The link I provide allows you to make a statement as well. I hope we can resolve our disagreement. -Darouet (talk) 21:22, 23 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Nabak-o-note
I hope that this message finds you well. I have extended the Patriot of Ukraine entry (it turned out that all the mainstream media are using an incorrect term - the "Patriots of Ukraine"), so, please check it out at your free time, since I noticed your interest in the Euromaidan and the Ukrainian radicals. Best, --Nabak (talk) 01:06, 5 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I see you reverted my spelling correction ('Euromaiden'->'Euromaidan') on the article Right Sector with the edit notice "Undid revision 608878640 by Topbanana (talk); many thanks, Topbanana – but I was the one who made the sp mistake, shouldn’t I be the one who has to fix it?". I see also that you later reinstated the change with the edit summary "fix own sp mistake".
It is not necessary to do this. Once you have submitted text to an article, it (spelling and all) no longer 'belongs' to you - anyone can edit it, hopefully futher improving on your own work. Even if all your own contributions are eventually overwritten, your work will always be visible in the article's edit history.
Although in this case my change was a trivial spelling correction, reverting someone else's contributions to an article with the intention of re-submitting them under your own name might be seen as attempting to claim credit for their work. Please be careful when reverting.
Orphaned non-free image File:MIT Crime Club logo.png
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2: But the motto is not to denote what the YPG literally is. You could say it is just a motto to boost the morale of the fighters. It shouldn't be connected to light infantry, alarming enemies etc. It's not to be taken literally.
3: I see your point.
4: Has much to do with the 2nd point.
For the rest of the points, I'm starting to understand what you mean. OK, so no use of 'as'. What do you propose then? Maybe use walk instead of march? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dewrano (talk • contribs) 13:20, 3 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
1: These are not my words, but a friend of mine. "The prefix 'di-' conjugates infinitive verbs (e.g. hejîn, meşîn) in present and present continuous tense (dihej-, dimeş-)."
2: "YPG ..." sounds best.
3: It's important to know that "meşîn, meşîyan" is not only translated to "walk". You linked a translator site. It also outputs "march". But Version A definitely is the best to go. So either A or B:
Okay. That makes sense. So either translation A or B. You said B sound more natural. But I'm not sure how good "goes" sounds in this context. It might be more correct in English, but I don't know. It just doesn't sound good for a motto. Or it might be just how mottos are in the English language.
Perfect! :-) I see that you are focusing slightly on Kurdish-related Wiki pages. Get ready for a lot of headache. :P Dewrano (talk) 22:54, 5 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Hi. I think you and I need to have a little discussion about pronunciation. If you prefer to do that at the article talk page that's fine, but I'll start here anyway. I put in a footnote saying how to pronounce Trump's last name. I didn't refer to the word trump, only to the name Trump. So, your edit summary did not make any sense to me and I reverted. No offense taken, I hope. Please let me know what you think. Anythingyouwant (talk) 02:56, 7 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Listed by Forbes
My edit summary was not 100% correct, but my revert was correct, I think. The way you changed it was grammatical, but the other way was okay and actually better. It's kind of tedious to read "Trump [verb]" and "He [verb]" over and over again, and that's why I wrote to avoid that here.Anythingyouwant (talk) 04:07, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose that's what I get for trying to be "granular", Anythingyouwant. (Sigh.)
You're right about the tedious style. So the next step was going to be, I move the first (half of the) sentence up to the end of graf 1. (But you got there first!)
...He has also made branding deals that feature his name on properties in which he has minority or no ownership. Trump and his businesses, as well as his three marriages, have received prominent media exposure. He hosted The Apprentice, a popular reality television show on NBC, from 2004 to 2015.
Step 3?
...He has also made branding deals that feature his name on properties in which he has minority or no ownership. He hosted The Apprentice, a popular reality television show on NBC, from 2004 to 2015. His three marriages have received prominent media exposure.
As you can see, I'd be removing "Trump and his businesses [have received prominent media exposure]." I think it's common knowledge (by definition). It's true, but it's not particularly helpful to the reader. --Dervorguilla (talk) 05:12, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
If your main concern here is that we say "Trump and his businesses have received prominent media exposure", then I disagree with you. The lead needs to summarize the article body, and media exposure is a major feature of the article body, including two entire sections ("entertainment media" and "popular culture") plus numerous other mentions (e.g. "revolutionary ability to attract free media attention"). Feel free to make a proposal at the article talk page though.Anythingyouwant (talk) 15:16, 11 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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Hello, I'm Calton. I noticed that you recently removed some content without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks.
Hi, Dervorguilla! I want to explain why I hatted part of your response to me at Talk:Donald Trump. The part I hatted seemed to be about some issue you had with a comment of mine from six weeks ago. It wasn't relevant to the talk page discussion and it interrupted the flow of your comments about the "birther" paragraph. Since it seemed to involve just the two of us, I think it would better belong on one of our talk pages. Was there something you felt we should discuss? --MelanieN (talk) 14:54, 26 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe you didn't realize
that when you say something like. As any interested editor can see,... the implication is that IF the editor in question doesn't see things your way, he or she is not "i
nterested". Since your response was directed only at me, I just wanted to say that I took offense. It may not have been intended, but I would characterize my "read" of As any interested editor can see.... as normal. Buster Seven Talk14:15, 28 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Buster7: I wrote, "As any interested editor can see, [DrFleischman] demonstrated good faith by making an effort to thoroughly discuss the matter in question." And I think we both did see (or at least appeared to see) that he was demonstrating good faith.
If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.
If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, you may be blocked from editing. Warning is in regard to this edit: [4]. Also keep in mind that this article is under discretionary sanctions. Based on the amount of disputes on the subject and length of time the disputes on the subject have gone on, your reversion of the photo while discussion is occurring could be seen by editors and administrators as provocation and easily lead to a block. Definitely not cool, definitely not smart, definitely disruptive. -- WV ● ✉✓14:56, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Deny all you want. Putting the image being heatedly discussed for days back into the article before discussion and consensus is reached was stupid, possibly pointy, and definitely disruptive. Even if you truly meant no harm, you have been around long enough to know it was the wrong thing to do. -- WV ● ✉✓23:30, 10 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not striking the two out-of-process votes, including your B1, but I just wanted to make sure you understand that it's very likely to be discarded as both out-of-process and inconsequential. So you will have wasted a vote, sort of like casting a write-in for Bernie or Ted in November just to make a statement. If that's your intent, no problem. ―Mandruss☎03:14, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Good point, Mandruss. The statement it actually appears to make, though, is that the editor doesn't want to comply with the applicable rules. Which was not my intent at all. I've corrected accordingly. --Dervorguilla (talk) 04:07, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi D, what's going on with the Trump photo issue? I just looked at the talk page and saw the hatted content where it earlier appeared to me we were getting to a resolution. Where are we at with this now? SW3 5DL (talk) 15:50, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm puzzling over why you would think it's appropriate to edit for someone else as you did here. If MichaelVadon wants to participate in the run off vote, he can do it himself.- MrX21:24, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Information from the Pic E filedesc: description="Mr Donald Trump New Hampshire Town Hall on August 19th, 2015 at Pinkerton Academy in Derry, NH by Michael Vadon"; author="Michael Vadon". --Dervorguilla (talk) 22:14, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, I have no idea what Im doing when it comes to editing these Wikipedia pages and would prefer someone else with experience do it. I dont want to mess anything up here and so I leave it up to others who are more knowledgeable. Thanks again. Mike — Preceding unsigned comment added by MichaelVadon (talk • contribs) 14:09, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) @Dervorguilla: That's a non sequitur.
@Mandruss: Quoting Michael Vadon, e-mail messages to Dervorguilla, September 17, 2016; September 18, 2016:
"I'm not sure how to place comments into the wiki thread and hope you can place these into it."
"So you can put my vote and comments in the thread or just tell me how I can do it. I don't want to mess up the thread with my editing as I've been known to do on occasion so I think you are best to place my comments."
Thot plickens. I would suggest you format the content for him, email that to him, and write instructions for the edit. He reviews your content and does the edit if he approves. How hard can it be. I wouldn't have a problem with that. ―Mandruss☎22:35, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Dervorguilla, I'm Dennis, one of many admin here. I'd like to notch it down and just explain why you can't do that, without assuming any bad will on your behalf. Doing that is called "proxy editing" and is disallowed here. One reason is that we can't verify the vote because they aren't here, and second, discussions aren't votes. If you want to discuss, then show up. There are some exceptions that Arbs and admin use for non-content, but those are rare events and heavily verified. Just imagine, I could go to an AFD that is all KEEP votes, pick a list of names that haven't edited in a long time and say "Bob, John, Tom, Jill and Sue all say to delete for failing WP:GNG". I could lie through my teeth, but you couldn't disprove it. It would be too easy to game the system, so we don't allow it for anyone on content discussions. I hope this explains it. Dennis Brown - 2¢23:38, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Unquestionably, that would be canvassing, which is not allowed. MichaelVadon shouldn't participate now, as unfortunately, the well has been poisoned. Dennis Brown - 2¢23:52, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Let me add that theoretically, it could lead to blocks and striking of votes, but as long as MichaelVadon doesn't participate, I would just call this a learning experience and not make a bigger issue of it. Call it a learning experience. Dennis Brown - 2¢23:57, 19 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You are mistaken. Cherry picking editors who agree with you is canvassing. You can read the words and massage them all you want, I've been here 10 years and know how the community interprets it, and how the community interprets it trumps the words of the policy every time anyway. To give you an example: if an article goes to AFD for the 2nd time and you notify ALL the editors that participated in the first AFD, that is fine (probably a good thing, in fact). If you notify only the KEEP voters, that is canvassing. The "expert" clause is a dangerous one and is seldom used because experts often have as much POV as non-experts and we don't have a formal definition for "expert" here. It isn't just as simple as reading a few lines. My previous administrative statements and actions stand. You are welcome to go to ANI and protest there. There is a section already open. Dennis Brown - 2¢01:27, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Dennis Brown: Addressing your comment, "...if an article goes to AFD for the 2nd time and you notify ALL the editors that participated in the first AFD, that is fine..."
12:33, 17 September 2016 . . User talk:~~User:Graham~~ (→Voting for lead picture at Donald Trump: new section)
Please stop making edits in my name. (Apologies if I've done this edit wrong; I don't usually participate in talk pages. Feel free to get in touch.) Grahamtalk/mail/e18:06, 15 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for notifying me. Yes, let's not proxy vote under any circumstance. Also, while meatpuppetry may seem subjective, I don't believe it was appropriate to call for a vote I'm this instance. Otherwise, the AN/I thread seems overkill and unnecessary. DARTHBOTTOtalk•cont05:07, 20 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
@Dennis Brown: Any opinion on this? I note that he edited the wikipedia to state that he has "no idea how to edit the wikipedia". My personal opinion: WP:CIR. In any case perhaps you could state the admin position in reply to him there, or honor his request yourself. ―Mandruss☎17:44, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Like I said, we don't allow proxy voting on content. If they can log in and give permission, they can log in and vote. The rest, I'm not going to get in an argument about semantics. Simply put, if over half the people think it is canvassing, then it is sanctionable. The power to block and sanction is derived from consensus, not the admin bit itself. Dennis Brown - 2¢18:28, 22 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The source says "Donald Trump on Forbes Lists....#324 Billionaires (2016)". Since 324 is less than 500 we can say in the lead that he's in the top 500. That's a nice round number, much easier for readers to digest and remember than 324.Anythingyouwant (talk) 00:26, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
"Non sequiturs occur when writers omit a step in an otherwise logical chain of reasoning, assuming that readers will agree with what may be a highly contestable claim."
Here, you may be assuming that readers will agree with your claim that "500" is easier to digest than, say, "400" (or "1,000").
@Anythingyouwant: That particular data point (#496) is from today's dynamic (daily) edition of the "Real-Time Billionaire's List", not the static (yearly) "Billionaire's List".
The reliable source says Trump is in the top 500. Why does it have to be a source independent of Forbes? We're saying Forbes puts him in the wealthiest 500, so why on earth can't we cite Forbes?Anythingyouwant (talk) 10:07, 17 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Ich kann ach pälzisch redde, wie sellem Donald sei Großeltere und hann dacht es wär nett, wann Du an Quetschekuche mit anere Grumbeersupp kriegsch. Du bisch ziemlich geduldig gewese uf derre Trumptalkseit und isch bin da dankbar für. (Thnx for your patience and support, in DT's grandparents vernacular) Polentarion Talk23:11, 15 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Zizek, Trump and Iron
Point is, people don't about content anymore. Its all about personal POV. If you don't like a certain statement, you either find a comma, that hasn't been sourced or describe actual sources as being contentious or just comment that a famous historian used in a certain article is not an expert for the field she wrote about (in case of Iron, the gang wants to delete any reference to biblical useage of iron and iron technology). I just had a quick look through the references at the Trump article - there are about 600, most of them press clippings and none with a doi. The article mentions the Bibliography_of_Donald_Trump but doesn't cite anything out of it. OK, one of Gwenda Brail's biographical books has been quoted once. We do not even have his weblinks. A search for [https://scholar.google.de/scholar?start=10&q=%22donald+trump%22+politics+doi&hl=de&as_sdt=0,5 (donald+trump%22+politics+doi) on scholar provides about 2000 entries of actual studies. None of them went into the article. Zizek got deleted quickly. That is something the project should be ashamed of. Polentarion Talk17:25, 18 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Based on what you've shown me, Polentarion, Žižek is likely to feel validated by the quick deletion. The project is supposed to reflect "mainstream" thought; and neither Žižek nor Trump is mainstream. For their side to win, the mainstream's had to lose; so the majority of editors had to be on the losing side politically. Was beginnt, beginnt im Blut (as the Chancellor would say).
I haven't found the quote, is it Bismarck chancellor wise? I take my time but will do as you say ;) Thnx! Polentarion Talk11:07, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, it's attributed to the Iron Chancellor. I can't find the quote either, so he may have used slightly different wording. In English, "Whatever begins, begins in blood", or, "All that is borne, is borne in blood". --Dervorguilla (talk) 20:29, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Was beginnt, beginnt im Blut? I dealt with some blood related cultural topics, including Blood sausage in 2009. I guess that the quote is a sort of interesting lead, but I doubt Bismarck (the Blood and Iron (speech) is behind it. I haven't found a direct equivalent. Imho it may have been a mixture of the actual biblical blood covenants, e.g. Leviticus 17:11 (for the life of the creature is in the blood) till Luke 22:20. (this is my blood, for the last supper) and a heritage of pseudoceltic/pseudogermanic continuity legends (in the Frazer/The Golden Bough style) from the 19th century, e.g. related to the 1920ies renaissance of Meister Eckhart. Maybe User:Yngvadottir has a better idea. I would love to find an Austrian light hearted origin: 'In Linz beginnt's', the city slogan of Linz rhymed similar but bloodless ;), Wiener Blut (operetta) was a Johann Strauss operette, the cinema version a Nazi box office success, postwar aired in the GDR and USA as well and seems to have an ongoing impact.Polentarion Talk23:26, 19 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I can't track down that quote either. We have an article on the Nazi film, unaccountably at Vienna Blood (film); for a while I was working on those films, but the library lost/misshelved a whole stack of the necessary books, and besides I was getting sick of the preference for using translated titles whether or not the film was ever released under an English title. Yngvadottir (talk) 17:28, 20 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Something like Wiener Blut! /Eig'ner Saft, /Voller Kraft, /Voller Glut. /Wiener Blut, /selt'nes Gut, /Du erhebst, /Du belebst /Unser'n Mut! could have been in line with the quote in question. Thnx for the quick answer anyway! Polentarion Talk18:06, 20 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I started to write an essay on my user page. I would be happy if you could provide me with a feedback. You are aware of my Trump section and could read as well Pegida German talk page section. Both address the same problem. Polentarion Talk10:01, 20 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, Dervorguilla. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
Hi, Dervorguilla! I see that you are online right now. Could you take a look at my message at Talk:2016 United States election interference by Russia#Addition of the dossier to the article? There is something that needs to be deleted from that article because it violates BLP, and I shouldn't do it per 1RR. Nobody else seems to be around at that article. Would you be willing to remove it? I have already explained to the author why we can't have it there. If you'd rather not that's OK. I suppose I could do it myself and call it an emergency. Thanks. --MelanieN (talk) 04:02, 14 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Good work on the Ben Swann page, was disgusting how editors tried to smear him so fast. Inspired me to start my own wiki account, though I'll probably stick to the accounting/finance sections.
Hello, I'm Scjessey. I noticed that you made a comment on the page Talk:Donald Trump that didn't seem very civil, so it has been removed. Wikipedia is built on collaboration, so it's one of our core principles to interact with one another in a polite and respectful manner. If you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page.
Thank you. Scjessey (talk) 17:20, 29 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Kushner
Hi, you pinged me and then wrote: "I've deleted the 83-word graf about the Kushner development. Maybe you could go ahead and add Proposal #3.1 (218-word version) with the understanding that it will (most likely) be gradually but radically shortened over the next few months (perhaps to as few as 61 words) as events unfold?" Did you mean to ping me? I don't think I was involved in that discussion.Anythingyouwant (talk) 21:06, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]
FYI, I tweaked the survey after you already !voted, in response to a correction by Coffee. I hope this is no problem, but please let me know if it is. Cheers.Anythingyouwant (talk) 06:00, 5 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Please also consider that the mere fact of mentioning false or controversial statements in the lead indicates that the number was unusual or notable.Anythingyouwant (talk) 14:27, 5 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I have added a new Option C to the most recent survey at the Trump talk page. I think everyone will find it appealing, so please comment about it and we can be done with this. Thanks. Anythingyouwant (talk) 23:54, 13 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thx
Dervorguilla, thanks for your comments recently at ANI, and also last year at AE. Under the circumstances, me leaving that BLP seems best. Your comments both times were spot-on, however. Cheers. Anythingyouwant (talk) 19:13, 25 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Why are you making edits to the lede section, when you know it is the consensus product of many months of extensive discussion? and there are numerous current discussions about modifying the lede going on at the talk page? Please participate in those discussions if you want to see changes in the lede. Do not make them unilaterally. --MelanieN (talk) 19:24, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. I am referring specifically to changing "while losing" to "despite losing". Consensus and POV policy are against "despite," because it seems to imply that he shouldn't have won. I have reverted that change. --MelanieN (talk) 19:28, 18 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
despite,prep. Without being prevented by (something) — used to say that something happens or is true even though there is something that might prevent it from happening or being true. {"The law has yet to be passed, despite the fact that most people are in favor of it."}
while,conj.3. In spite of the fact that; although. {"While (he is) respected, the mayor is not liked."}
Also, note that while is a conjunction, not a preposition. So the phrase "...while losing the popular vote" = the clause "...while he was losing the popular vote". (Analogy: "He has won election because winning the College vote.")
While we know what we're trying to say here, some recent immigrants may not.
Please STOPdisrupting the Trump talk page to prove a point, or whatever the hell you are trying to do with your vague policy examination there. If you keep going down this path, I will be taking it to the administrators. You've been warned by several editors about this, so there is no longer an excuse. Don't forget activities on that talk page are subject to discretionary sanctions. -- Scjessey (talk) 13:21, 21 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
WP:POINT intro: "When you have a point to make, use direct discussion only. [Don't] try to discredit ... a policy or guideline ... or [an] interpretation thereof by ... applying it consistently ... to prove a point in a local dispute [or by] trying to enforce a rule in a generally unpopular way."
WP:TALK#Topic: "Keep discussions focused on how to improve the article... Comments that are plainly irrelevant are subject to archival or removal."
My comments focused on ways to improve the article. On 02:31, 21 June 2017, for example, I added this relevant material to the 'A contemporary illustration [partly completed]' subsection: "If JFG had chosen to add a statement about it to the article, I could have removed it just for POV; but then I would have had to begin yet another discussion."
You are deluded. You used an article talk page to give generic lectures to Wikpedians of considerable experience, and disruptively edit-warred to make sure your misuse of the talk page remained visible. -- Scjessey (talk) 14:55, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
(←) @Scjessey: Per TALK#TOPIC, I've been focusing on the most relevant policy passages; and, at 00:44, 21 June 2017, I objected to specific content that was proposed or reasonably expected to be proposed. The proposed content was added nonetheless. At 5:13, 23 June 2017, I objected, citing one of those passages. At 05:41, 23 June 2017, the community sustained my objection.
Contemporary contributors to Talk included TheValeyard (with 248 edits), Casprings (with 5790), Power~enwiki (with 2671), Joobo (with 1449), Archway (with 2170), and NoMoreHeroes (with 75), not all of whom may categorize themselves as "Wikpedians of considerable experience". --Dervorguilla (talk) 18:43, 23 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Bokmanrocks01: Glad you pointed this out. I was trying to model the entry after the most analogous 'predecessor' entry listed in the Infobox officeholder template examples:
Assumed office 6 May 1999
Preceded by(new constituency)
'Position established' does sound a bit more authoritative. But Chicago Manual of Style says "All items in a list should be constructed of parallel elements". Both "6 May 1999" and "(new constituency)" are noun phrases, whereas "Position established" is a standalone sentence.
@Bokmanrocks01: We'd be deviating from the parallel-elements requirement for list elements. (Chicago ¶ 6.121.) We could escape from this requirement if we reformat the nonparallel element, so: "(position established)". But none of these options are ideal. As given in the infobox, the question is: "Whom was Jared Kushner preceded by?" The answer is: "He was preceded by no one". (Not, "He was preceded by position established" or "...by new office".) Per CMOS, the correct entry for an empty cell in a table is "n/a", with an explanatory footnote at the end of the table. Thoughts? --Dervorguilla (talk) 06:18, 9 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I think it's best to stick with "(new office)" for now. I think it is good enough to provide the information that the office is newly established in an academic way - Bokmanrocks01 (talk) 02:57, 10 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't want to clutter the Roy Moore talk page any more with this, but I fell it necessary to address what you wrote.
@Txantimedia: He said that your comment was disingenuous, not that you're disingenuous. VM takes great care in wording his comments. But at this point it looks like the matter can be safely dropped. :) --Dervorguilla (talk) 04:25, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
When you say that someone's comments are disingenuous, you are saying that the commenter is disingenuous. It is as impossible to separate a commenter from his comments as it is to separate your breath from your life. I took particular offense to his comment because I had just posted that, after understanding the matter further, I agreed with the reverter's actions. He then thanked me for being able to change my mind. At that point, I felt the matter was settled. Then VM took aim directly at my previous comments, which I had already agreed were mistaken. I take particular pride in being able to overcome my biases (which we all have) and be objective when confronted with evidence to the contrary of my assertions. VM's attack stung particularly strongly for that very reason. And it was a personal attack, whether or not you think it was. He make take great care to word things so they appear to be neutral, but they were not.
I won't bother you with this further. I wanted you to understand my position and perhaps to see that criticizing comments criticizes the person making those comments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Txantimedia (talk • contribs) 05:27, 22 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Has a nice section, "Not to be confused with ... "; which includes"
Poorly written content that can be improved, such as text containing many grammar errors. See Wikipedia:Basic copyediting.
Given you obviously looked at the edit history, and likely noticed the discussion on my talk page, I don't see any reason for reverting when it was a simple and straightforward fix. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 01:30, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see why you're telling me I'm causing a problem when this simple fix should never have required a revert at all (and I had obviously mentioned the discussion on my talk page and pinged the relevant editor in the summary, specifically to make it easier to navigate - you could just have come to my page and said that it reads like nonsense because of a misplaced stray word). RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 12:23, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@RandomCanadian: That editor (Jr8825) did just what you're saying I should have done. He triedtwice to get you to fix that problematic wording. It didn't work.
He came to my talk page and asked me to fix it. I did, albeit I left a stray word which nobody noticed for a few days, until you came down like basically a ton of bricks for this petty detail. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 20:25, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@RandomCanadian: No, you didn't "fix it". You wrote: "The presence of the furin cleavage site ... largely outweighs disadvantageous immune responses from B-cells concerns triggered by the genetic sequences..."
You're conveniently ignoring the bit that goes where you put [...] and which makes the sentence quite clear. Anyway, since you seem to be intent on making your talk page such a time sink, I'll withdraw to other less silly business. Cheers, RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 21:47, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Here's the full text of that problematic sentence (which to RandomCanadian is "quite clear"):
In addition, the presence of the furin cleavage site, which is responsible for a significant increase in transmissibility, largely outweighs disadvantageous immune responses from B-cells concerns triggered by the genetic sequences which code for it.
Since you seem intent on pinging me yet again; here is the whole sentence, with the minimal changes it required (even highlighted, since you seem to be having difficulties with this):
In addition, the presence of the furin cleavage site, which is responsible for a significant increase in transmissibility, largely outweighs disadvantageous immune responses from B-cellsconcerns triggered by the genetic sequences which code for it.
See, one single stray word which had not been removed upon altering the sentence. Now please leave me alone, especially if you want to keep feasting on your victory [sic.: for lack of a better word]. RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 00:15, 27 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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