Who was the eldest and when were they supposedley born?
I'm asking because the article for Pat Evans says that she met Frank in Clacton when she was 16. She was born in 1942, placing the meeting in 1958 - then it says that June got pregnant "soon after"... but Ricky was born in 1973 - 15 years later... so I'm asking- is Clare like 15 years older than the rest of them? Is Ricky younger than Clare and/or Diane? And how long is "soon after"? Trampikey(talk to me)(contribs)16:26, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Clare is definitely the eldest, and quite a lot older than the others as she was given Janine to look after when when June supposedly died in 1987. According to one book, Janine was 4 when that happened and Ricky and Diane were still at school. I cant find any dates for when Clare was born though. Gungadin23:08, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
Someone seems to have put the wrong dob on Diane Butcher's infobox. She is younger than Ricky. Born in 1974, which is right because she ran away from home on her 16th bday in January 1990.Gungadin00:55, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Yes Clare's the eldest, but even though Frank maried June when she fell pregnant, he didnt cut all ties with Pat. They continued their affair on and off for years supposedly. Even when she was married to Pete. I remember a bit of tension when Frank found out that Wicksy wasnt Pete's, and worried that he was the father, but was told he wasnt. Pat was a bit of a nimpho wasnt she :)Gungadin01:56, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Gallery on Sharon article
I was thinking of putting a picture gallery on the Sharon Rickman article. I have numerous images of her over the years, looking entirely differnt in most of them and thought it would be good to put a gallery section in the article to show her changing styles. What do you think? and also do you know how to do it? or can any direct me to any article that I can copy a layout from? Gungadin02:01, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
K i got rid of some images, and took out some stuff in the article which was not relevant to Sharon, although there is probably still a lot of descriptive info about Chrissie, Sam, Den and his murder which isnt really necessary in this article, especially as Sharon wasnt even in the series when it occurred. If you think more images should be removed, then perhaps we should think about merging all the In Popular culture sections from each EE article into one article, like I have seen them do on other tv series on Wikipedia.Gungadin17:56, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
God you should've heard my father all the way through the Christmas episodes... "Garry and Cunty are up a fucking ladder dressed as Father Christmas!", [when Minty fell] "Why didn't he just fucking die?", [about Stacey] "Oooh that girl's got lovely legs!", [about Stacey after she slept with Max] "Why did she do that?! I don't like her now" Trampikey(talk to me)(contribs)14:59, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Oh god, they sound terrible! But don't you think it was stupid that Martin just shouted at Pauline and then turned around and said "She's dead"? — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 16:10, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
Hello, all. It was initially my hope to try to have this done as part of Esperanza's proposal for an appreciation week to end on Wikipedia Day, January 15. However, several people have once again proposed the entirety of Esperanza for deletion, so that might not work. It was the intention of the Appreciation Week proposal to set aside a given time when the various individuals who have made significant, valuable contributions to the encyclopedia would be recognized and honored. I believe that, with some effort, this could still be done. My proposal is to, with luck, try to organize the various WikiProjects and other entities of wikipedia to take part in a larger celebrartion of its contributors to take place in January, probably beginning January 15, 2007. I have created yet another new subpage for myself (a weakness of mine, I'm afraid) at User talk:Badbilltucker/Appreciation Week where I would greatly appreciate any indications from the members of this project as to whether and how they might be willing and/or able to assist in recognizing the contributions of our editors. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker16:16, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree. Maybe some of the other places should be merged into another article too - like Walford east and Albert Square, which are also fairly short.Gungadin17:32, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Albert Square wouldn't fit into any of our current lists, so can't be merged. Not sure about Walford East either. Hmm that bit about Billy on the tube's been removed... :( I think both articles can be expanded to include events that have happened. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 23:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
I've just completed the task of populating Category:EastEnders images, at least as best as I can without actually going through every EastEnders article to check the images in them are categorised. If any of you want to do that, you're very welcome to. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 02:14, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for all your hard work. If I come across any that you missed I will add the category, and i'll also make sure I add that cat next time I upload in the future.Gungadin02:43, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Also you have to pipe the category (i.e. type [[Category:EastEnders images|{{subst:PAGENAME}}]] otherwise they'll be listed under the letter I. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 13:45, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Good article nomination
I've just nominated Pauline Fowler as a good article candidate. I didn't think any improvements could be made, it's well referenced and has lots of out-of-universe stuff, and there's not much to be added now she's dead, so I felt it was time to nominate! — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 20:49, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Although I do think we should remove the cast card links from the external links, because of copyright issues... the same reason links to youtube videos are removed. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 20:58, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
I fully sourced most of the text, so hopefully they wont be failing it for poor sourcing now, although they probably wont like the length of in-universe stuff.Gungadin00:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I hope the in-universe stuff won't be too much of an issue, with all the out-of-universe stuff that's there. If it fails for that reason, we'll either have to forget about nominating articles or go into less detail... I sincerely hope it passes, cos everyone's worked so hard! — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 15:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
It's a good article, but some sections are definitely too detailed and over-written - I've cut "Deception and reclusiveness" down a little, but it probably needs to be trimmed some more (every single event in the storyline doesn't have to be quite so detailed!). Good luck with the featured article proposal! Stephenb(Talk)16:31, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I've added some more out of universe stuff - Criticisms of the character and bits about her exit. The out of universe section could probably be put into subsections now, like "casting" "critcisms" and "notable storylines". does anyone think it's worth doing that? Gungadin18:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone think it should be split off into a new article? Stuff could also be gathered from other 'In popular culture' sections on other articles, such as Pauline Fowler, and also added to the article. (I'm not saying that they should be removed from the character articles, just duplicated in a new article to increase content.) The article (which I think should be called EastEnders in popular culture) could be split into sections, i.e. 'Television', 'Music', etc. Also, I'm going to start a section in the article about the website and internet fandom - anyone have any ideas what I can write? It'll probably appear on my sandbox over the next few days - anyone's welcome to edit it! -Trampikey(talk)(contribs)16:11, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
I have a few stored up in the memos on my phone. Like Vicky Pollard referring to her friends tits as "looking like the Mitchell brothers". -Trampikey(talk)(contribs)23:53, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
Infobox - actor/image
The actor in the infobox is the last actor who played the character. In the case of Billy Jackson, this was Bluey Robinson. However, the image is of Devon Anderson. It looks a little strange and most people will associate Anderson with the role. Should we change the rule in cases such as this one (I'm sure it doesn't happen often) or should we try to find a screenshot of Robinson in the role for the infobox? — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 01:04, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
As it's the character's page, the image should be of the character, not neccessairily the actor, and the only image we have available of Billy at the moment is one of Devon Anderson. Though if anyone has the episodes with Martin and Sonia's wedding, a more recent picture of Billy would be great! -Trampikey(talk)(contribs)01:10, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
Of course, it just looks strange having one actor's name with a picture of a different actor. Has any other character returned for only a short time to be played by a different actor? It would be great if we could find a picture of Robinson as Billy for the infobox, and move the Anderson picture down. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 10:54, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
A bit of useless information:
These are the characters who have links to their articles from the main EastEnders article (in order of where they appear in the article!):
Actually it's good to know so we don't have too much overlinking, but non-members won't look here for the list so we need to keep an eye on any additions to the page. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 11:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Social realism
Trying to gather together all issues highlighted in the show; take a look and try and help me out!
Alcohol and drugs
Alcoholism
Phil Mitchell
Lorna Cartwright
Drink driving
Pat Butcher
Drug addiction
Nick Cotton
Janine Butcher
Donna Ludlow
Drug dealing
Nick Cotton
Drug production
Martin Fowler
Discrimination
Homophobia
(against) Colin Russell and Barry Clark
Racism
Nick Cotton (Kelvin Carpenter, Ali Osman)
Jim Branning (Alan Jackson)
Darren Roberts (Matthew Jackson)
Death
Cot Death
Hassan Osman
Euthanasia
Ethel Skinner (Dot Cotton)
Murder
Reg Cox (Nick Cotton)
Eddie Hunter (Nick Cotton)
Jack Dalton (Dennis Rickman)
Barry Evans (Janine Evans)
Andy Hunter (Johnny Allen)
Den Watts (Chrissie Watts)
Danny Moon (Jake Moon)
Pauline Fowler (Sonia Fowler) (?)
Muder in self defence
Saskia Duncan (Steve Owen)
Suicide
Donna Ludlow
Leo Taylor
Clive Dixon
Vehicle-related
Andy O'Brien (lorry)
Charlie Cotton (lorry)
Tiffany Mitchell (Frank Butcher's car)
Stephanie Watson (Pat Butcher's car)
Ashley Cotton (motorbike)
Debbie Bates (car - hit and run)
Pete Beale and Rose Chapman (car - hit and run)
Steve Owen (car)
Jamie Mitchell (Martin Fowler's car)
Families
Adoption
Rebecca Miller (Sonia Jackson/Martin Fowler → Neil Miller/Sue Miller)
Donna Ludlow (Kathy Hills/Marcus Duffy → Gerald Ludlow)
Sharon Rickman (Carol Stretton/Gary → Den Watts/Angie Watts)
Janet Mitchell (almost)
Adultery
Arthur Fowler (Pauline Fowler/Christine Hewitt)
Cindy Beale (Ian Beale/Simon Wicks, Ian Beale/David Wicks)
For the sake of correct categorisation, as my memory of Eastenders in 1998 is a bit hazy (I was 8), I have a question. Was Tony Hills actually gay... or bisexual? I understand that back then the word gay would have been used more explicitly than the b word, but in his relationships with Tiffany, Polly and Frankie... was he faking heterosexuality or was he genuinely attracted to them, only to later fall in love with Simon? Reply with thoughts or opinions, please. ~ZytheTalk to me!14:15, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I'm working on a page about pop culture - I need to know which characters have pop culture sections in their articles so I can incorporate them too. I have done Pauline's already. -Trampikey(talk)(contribs)19:57, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
Dot Branning, Barry Evans, Peggy Mitchell, Sharon Rickman, Anthony Trueman, Mo Harris, Den Watts, Charlie Slater, Mark Fowler, Kat Moon, Phil Mitchell, Pat Evans, Zoe Slater, Lynne Hobbs, Beppe di Marco, Billy Mitchell and probably many more besides... — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 22:05, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
That looks really good. Mrs Osman is ancient! Is that the one that appeared in 1989? they must have changed her from the one in 1985, as she wasn't so old. Gungadin01:06, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
I think the mother appears in 1989 when the family comes to take Ali Jr away from Ali snr, or near the time Sue gets locked up. I think the father possibly appears on Ali's exit when his family drag him away from Walford for good — well two male relatives do anyway. The Osman mother from 1985 (who appeared with Ayse) wore glasses. Some of the Osmans names are'nt pronounced how you might think. Guizin is pronounced sort of like Gwizzum and they say it really quickly like they are sneezing. Emine is pronounced Eminé. They also pronounce Rayif like they are saying two separate words - Ray-If, and the little children go around calling Ali, Ali-unja. Whatever that means...probably Uncle. Every so often they all start rambling on and abusing each other in Turkish, which Sue moans about because she doesnt understand a word.Gungadin02:07, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
It does seem a little too small, but that's probably because i'm not used to seeing it like that and also because I think i need glasses. If it reduces the amount of space it takes up then I would say use the smaller print, as i'm sure others wont notice the change in size. Gungadin23:00, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I think, if the directors, writers and producers categories are to be deleted, we should move the articles into the EastEnders people category. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 13:30, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that someone has made a page for the walford death map. Personally I dont see how this is notable enough to get its own page, so it should probably be nominated for deletion, but I remembered someone saying they were doing an article on EastEnders on line, so I thought i'd draw it to your attention in case you think it should be merged into something else. Gungadin21:53, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
It certainly doesn't deserve its own article, but can be moved and expanded so it's about all of EastEnders online, but then cut down what it says about the Death Map, i.e. get rid of the list of names. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:18, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
If we do create a list of cast members, I think we should list them in chronological order of joining... and we can list the years they were in it as well - same for the other articles too. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 22:12, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
The producers, directors and writers can pretty much be put here if they still work on the show, if the list gets too big though, we can create a list (List of EastEnders crew members?) We'll keep the character lists I think, they're perfectly good enough. For incidences like David Scarboro and Danniella Westbrook, they're in the character's past, they can be mentioned on the character's page... Shame on them for leaving anyway. Also, yes it would be good if you could move it to that, please! -Trampikey(talk)(contribs)23:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
We should have a list for crew that includes people who no longer work on the show. One article for all the crew sounds good though. I wasn't suggesting we lose the character lists. We do have a problem with actors like Westbrook etc, as they're not mentioned on the list of characters and therefore we wouldn't be listifying the category correctly. That's why I was suggesting a new article for the cast members, in addition to the characters... Do we need the "by year of exit" part of that page title? — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 23:36, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
One of the categories was deleted rather than to be listified, but should still be included in our crew article. As long as we know who was in the category. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 14:29, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I suppose we don't need "by year of exit". Westbrook etc. are in the characters' articles, and to listify the category just to house the few reacsts would be unneccessary. The current character lists are enough. Also, I'm presuming all the articles in the category that needs to be listified for actors who have since had their character recast mention that they were in EastEnders anyway... that's good enough. -Trampikey(talk)(contribs)15:35, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Can't it just be changed to cast and character (listed by year of exit) and then Sam, Mark, Peggy and Billy Jackson etc can just appear twice on the list with their different actors? Gungadin15:48, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
If we only have one list for characters/cast, I'd prefer it to be a list of characters. So I think we want just one list, and therefore the category for EastEnders cast members can be depopulated and speedy deleted (I can do this). It's just a shame that certain cast won't be listed. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:24, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Can we add actors such as Westbrook to the lists of characters next to the character they played after the last actor who played the character? Please don't say no, they should be listed somewhere in a list. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 19:49, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree with AP. The list should be about providing a comprehensive list, which it wont be if the primary actors arent included. It may not be as aesthetically pleasing, but that isnt the most important thing. Perhaps an asterix can be placed next to the recasts and then a "notes" section at the bottom of the article stating that the actor was recast and listing the originals.Gungadin20:01, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
There's only Danniella Westbrook, David Scarboro, Jo Warne, Devon Anderson and Ashraf Karim (as well as babies) that I can think of. It'll look awful, and I don't think actors should be credited with a role that they were not associated with at the time the character left the show (or, if this suggestion applies to the present characters too, actors that are no longer synonomous with the character), shouldbe credited with the role. The list is a character list and not a cast one, so should be the CHARACTER and the last actor who played them... -Trampikey(talk)(contribs)20:15, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
"That's enough" - no it's not. We should have a comprehensive list, as Gungadin said. Nobody associates that Bluey guy with Billy Jackson. I'm not suggesting we do it the same as the Coronation Street article. Actors should be credited with roles that they played. That's like saying we should forget about the first nine actors who played the Doctor in Doctor Who! Or even taking Phoebe Coltman-West off the list because Freyja Coltman-West was the last of the twins to actually appear on screen. Ever since I joined Wikipedia I thought it was wrong not to have all the cast listed on the list of characters, regardless of the fact that it was a list of characters, not cast. If you don't want the previous actors' names next to the most recent actors' names then we could use reference tags and create a section for notes at the bottom. If we don't include Danniella Westbrook, David Scarboro, Jo Warne, Devon Anderson, Tony Wredden, James Martin, Joseph Shade, Alex Stevens, Casey Anne Rothery, Matthew Silver, Morgan Whittle, Carissa O'Meara, Josephine O'Meara and all the others somewhere in a list then we've let the Wikiproject down by not being comprehensive. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 20:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I agree. Personal preferences should be put aside and the decision should instead be based upon whether their inclusion will be useful for research purposes etc. I dont see any benefits in excluding important information just because it makes the list less tidy. It also goes against what the project stands for. We really have no right to choose what information will be relevant for readers based on aesthetics. Gungadin21:27, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
Jo Warne, Tony Wredden, James Martin, Joseph Shade, Alex Stevens, Casey Anne Rothery, Matthew Silver, Morgan Whittle, Carissa O'Meara and Josephine O'Meara are not useful at all for research purposes. The only actors who are in any way synonymous with their characters are Danniella Westbrook, Devon Anderson and David Scarboro. It seems, however, that my opinion is apparently wrong, so do what you want. All I'm saying is that it will look terrible. -Trampikey(talk)(contribs)21:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
They're no more or less useful than Matthew Ashforde, Anna Lauren, Rae Hendrie, Julian Harries, Rachel Cox, Patricia Brake, Maurice Roëves, Bill Ward, Eddie Nestor, Joseph Millson, Susan George, Rupert Hill, Graham McGrath, or several other people who appear on the list. — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 22:38, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
As we are using this as our "cast list" now, I am depopulating the cast members category, and adding the soap opera actors category where necessary.... — AnemoneProjectors (talk) 16:11, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
