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Wikipedia talk:Translation/Archive 2
"proofreading" clarificationThe role of a proofreader in the translation process should be clarified on Wikipedia:Translation. In particular, the instructions should say if a proofreader is expected to (a) check the literal translation by reading both the original and translated articles (b) do 'copy-editing' tasks in the translated article such as changing word order/choice and editing for flow. KellenT 08:46, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
Improving on probably ;) less-than-perfect EnglishHi, I'm uncertain whether this is the best place to ask, as it is not about the translation of another WP article. The artist in question, Karin Schäfer, is not focused on German language at all, although sources used for the article are mostly German (she's Austrian). Could someone please improve on the text edited by two native German speakers? Or, if not here, where to ask for such? Thanks, Wolfgang, --WeHaWoe (talk) 09:53, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Problem on article talk page and Wikipedia:Translation/Hayko_CepkinWikipedia:Translation/Hayko_Cepkin and Talk:Hayko Cepkin look messed up in my Firefox 2.0.0.14 - source code is showing through: <div style="position:relative; margin:0; padding:0; height:100%; background:#A0A0FF; border:0; vertical-align:middle;background:#A0A0FF; width:Expression error: Unrecognised word "xx"%; "> BNutzer (talk) 22:26, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
HelpI need help to translation from es:Latinos to Latins. (I translated it:Latini to es:Latinos) Thanks, Shooke (talk) 00:32, 14 June 2008 (UTC) Citations and ReferencesI've just started proofreading, and it seems many articles really don't have sufficient citations or references (either in English or in the original language). What is the position on this - should translators be encouraged to endeavour to go back and find references? Or do we operate a lower standard of verifiability with translated articles? I should mention that the problem seems to stem from the original versions of the articles many of which have few or no references. Can anyone tell me - is there a general policy on how this should be handled from the proof-reader's point of view? Thanks Burntfingers (talk) 20:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Common places for working on translations?Is it common practice to work on the translation on a usertalk sub-page, or, rather, if we are generally confident about what we've translated (even if the article is not fully done), is the translation portion usually put right into the article? Thanks -- Natalya 12:03, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
Wikicommons pages in need of translationCommons:WikiProject Canada needs a translation please from English to French. The substitution templates work in wikipedia, but I cannot get them to work in wikicommons. Is it possible to still have a translation from En to Fr? Thank you. Kind Regards SriMesh | talk 03:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC) Wikipedia:Translation/JutoupiIt's been six months since the initial request. Any chance on getting started on Wikipedia:Translation/Jutoupi? Thanks. Bebestbe (talk) 15:58, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Talk page archivalI suggest setting up MiszaBot I to archive this talk page. — Tirk·fl “…” 07:34, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
Translating infrastructure (e.g. image EXIF metadata boxes)Hi - I'm new to translating... I noticed that the translation of the Wikipedia infrastructure (tab headings, exif data field descriptors, etc.) are incomplete for the Afrikaans language. I would like to improve this aspect, but can't find out where one can change or improve the translation of actual Wikipedia infrastructure. Just to reiterate -- I'm not talking about translating the content of articles, but rather translating the wikipedia navigation and infrastructure text -- Can someone point me in the right direction? FMalan (talk) 23:00, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Translation needed..Not sure if this is the right place, but could someone translate this into english and email it to me? The english article for Running gag is barely even a stub, and the version i found ( I think it's from Denmark's wikipedia) has MUCH more context. - -[The Spooky One] | [t c r] 19:11, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
Help section/FAQWhat about creating a FAQ or help section on the main page? I noticed that there are often the same questions arising (e.g. copyright questions, technical issues etc.). — Tirk·fl “…” 10:38, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Doubt about atribution of copyrightHi. I have a question about atribution of credits to the editors of the original article. Do you just mention in the edit summary that the article was translated from this or that wikipedia article? GoEThe (talk) 15:19, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
Talk pages filled with stuff to be translatedIt seems that some users posted public domain text to talk pages hoping to have it translated, but with no explanation in English as to what the items are. Please see Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Spam_or_not.3F for some details (or this if the section has been archived). For an example, please see Talk:Poznań Voivodeship (from 2004!). Is this that unusual or is there some procedure so that someone can actually know about this text and translate it or just junk it? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 08:06, 27 August 2008 (UTC) Image translation from German to EnglishWas not sure how to post this request to the German translation section as the image is from Commons and the german translation talk page redirects to here. This image is to be used for the Novels WikiProject Collaboration of the Month, Steppenwolf (novel). This is the image that requires the translation and then can be placed on the article, [1]. If someone is able to translate the wording it be appreciated and welcomed for our collaboration. Boylo (talk) 23:10, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
this is not working todayIs something wrong with the coding? Chris (クリス • フィッチ) (talk) 05:25, 26 October 2008 (UTC) Stub template with translation comment?Hello all- Is there a tag that we can use on a new article to indicate that it's a stub based on or translated from an article on another language's Wikipedia? I thought I saw something like that once, but can't find anything now. Thanks in advance for any pointers. -Eric talk 11:01, 27 October 2008 (UTC) How to propose a page to be translated - STOPPED WORKINGAs chris noted already, i'm confirming that the script stopt working properly, adding a pagename with or withouth leading / it ends up in the wrong place. Mion (talk) 20:50, 7 November 2008 (UTC) Is this the right place?Is this the right place to report a page that has been extremely poorly translated from German? The page is Germanism (linguistics). Parts of it are completely unintelligible, and having no knowledge of German I'm unable to do anything about it. If I'm asking in the wrong place, perhaps someone can report this article to the correct location. Emeraude (talk) 15:03, 14 November 2008 (UTC) Fr. Francisco Combés, S.J. text in Spanish removed, English translation inserted in its steadIn view of the objection to the non-English passages, I have removed the Spanish text. In its stead, I have inserted the English translation. I hope this sufficiently meet the objection. --Vicente Calibo de Jesus (talk) 15:08, 20 November 2008 (UTC) Problem with Viktor MokhovI'm not part of the translation project so I'm not sure how translations usually work. Something, though is wrong with Viktor Mokhov. Does anybody know how to fix it? -- kenb215 talk 07:40, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
Section translationI needed only a sectional, not whole page translation from the Spanish es: Txeroki#Biografía to the English Miguel De Garikoitz Aspiazu Rubina#Biography. I was wondering how to request this? Or perhaps if someone could do it here. Lihaas (talk) 04:09, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Another technical issuesI just dove deep into the translation archive and noticed that there are some old empty pages. What about deleting them? It would be far more clearly arranged. Another big task would be to re-sort the articles into the right sections. There are a lot of proofread and completed articles in the request section. I am going to start work soon, but I could need some help. Kind regards, Tirk·fl “…”14:58, 10 December 2008 (UTC) Machine translationsThere is discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Did_you_know#Translations_as_.22new.22_content on whether "machine translations" of articles, such as that provided by Google are fine as "new content" added to Wikipedia. Is there a statement somewhere, regarding this issue? Thanks, —Mattisse (Talk) 01:49, 29 December 2008 (UTC) FERDINANDUS DC ARCHIDUX —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.116.249.96 (talk) 20:44, 14 January 2009 (UTC) Is the above template a talk or a article template? Gnevin (talk) 16:10, 17 January 2009 (UTC) Expiration of translation requestsI recently had a look on the German translation requests page, and there are a lot of requests, which are two years old and don't make sense any more (because the English article is as extensive as the German one). I suggest to remove this requests and mark them as "expired" or something like that. Maybe we should archive them on a separate page. — Tirk·fl “…” 07:35, 1 October 2008 (UTC)
Ability to translate from English to other languages... can I signal this through a userbox?Hello,
which indicates that I translate from Italian to English en, but I can do the opposite too. How do I adapt the template to indicate this? I have a user id on it.wikipedia and fr.wikipedia, where the user page redirects to my en.wikipedia user page, so it would be important for me to be able to signal to Italian & French readers what I can do there. Thanks!
Medical Translation BlogWikipedian translators may find this link to be useful: Medical Translation Blog Is this the right place? (2)I have a two page article in german that is needed as a source on Rudolf Wolters. I have run it through google translate and would be very grateful if a german speaker could turn it into accurate English. I can e-mail the pdf of the article and the Word 'translation'. Many thanks. Fainites barleyscribs 00:53, 7 February 2009 (UTC) Confirmation of foreign-language sourcesHello, I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but I have been maintaining the page List of weather records, which contains weather extremes for countries across the globe. Over almost two years, several countries have been added by anon IPs, with foreign-language sources, which I have allowed to stay on good faith. However, I would really like confirmation on these sources, and need to find people who speak Croatian, Czech, Danish, Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian, Lithuanian, Polish, Romanian, Slovak, Slovene, Swedish, or Turkish, at least at a basic level, to confirm that these pages say what they are supposed to say. Thank you very much in advance.-RunningOnBrains 17:56, 8 February 2009 (UTC) Using {{translated page}} templateI've made some changes recently to the {{translated page}} template, to give it additional functionality. It is designed to be used on talk pages of selected articles, to provide a link back to the source article so the original author(s) can be traced (required under the terms of GFDL). It also categorises articles into sub-categories of Category:Translated pages. At present, there are several other templates in use, such as {{Frenchtrans}}, which are used on the articles themselves. Referencing other Wikipedias in this way is a violation of Wikipedia:Self-references to avoid (see, for example, arguments used in this discussion). Therefore I propose that these should be replaced with {{translated page}}. This will resolve the problem of self-references (as it's on the talk page), and also bring all translated articles into the translated pages categories. It'll be a large job to do this, (possibly a job for a bot), so I'm bringing this up to gain consensus before continuing. — Tivedshambo (t/c) 10:04, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
Proposal for change in translation processHi everyone, User:Dr. Blofeld and User:AlbertHerring have developed some useful templates to put on the top of articles or sections (mostly stubs) that are better in other languages than in English. See the top of Uusimaa, for instance. This strikes me as a more effective way of managing translation requests, both so they can last longer without becoming stale and getting archived, and so they attract the attention of relevant editors more easily. I see some advantages of the existing translation templates (the in-progress system and subpages and so forth), but I think given the output of this project (only a handful of translations this whole month), there is probably a better way to manage this. (The current system also seems unnecessarily complicated for shorter articles - lots of bureaucracy with marginal benefit.) The way I see it, maybe translation would best be handled by templates on articles that link to some sort of page giving instructions on how to translate, along with optional templates to use while articles are in progress and a way to ask for help proofreading. The templates automatically categorize articles needing translation by language, so interested translators can browse the category. Thoughts? Calliopejen1 (talk) 17:25, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
I agree. I did try to post yesterday but I lost my long message because of computer or server trouble. The translation thing is a huge project but I think adminstering these tags liberally in articles would be a strong move to hihglighting what needs to be done and working towards involving people outside ths group as it is clear the task is too great for a handful of editors. It would indeed simplify it and "keep it real" without editors unfamililar with how to list an article formally here having to do that when they can tag the articles. I also like your adjustments to the template. Jen. Dr. Blofeld White cat 17:22, 15 February 2009 (UTC) Translation pleaseI'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but perhaps someone could advise me where to go if it's not. This page shows a number of stamps, including one from the Republic of China (just hover over image to enlarge). Can someone tell me please if the Chinese characters give any information about the picture shown on the stamp. Thanks, jimfbleak (talk) 07:49, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Big changesIn case people haven't noticed, this page has been completely redone. For a description of the problem that led to this, as well as ongoing efforts to steamline this project, see Wikipedia:Translation/Overhaul. Calliopejen1 (talk) 19:25, 15 March 2009 (UTC) Category? List?Hello! I just ran across one of those "translate" tags for an English article (to be taken from the French). The following will sound callous: some articles just don't seem worth the time. Or, at the very least, it seems like there must be others that are more worth the time. But it seems that there is no way to find a list of these articles to decide between when it comes to allocating one's limited resources. I know that you can request photographs and such on general lists, so that people can just upload them as they find them. Is it possible to make one of those for this project as well? Thanks. --Heyitspeter (talk) 05:58, 24 March 2009 (UTC) When did this change?The last time I thought I'd look at request for translation, I came to a page where people manually entered articles to be translated, and each listing was accompanied by a set of statuses. This is not that; now the mechanism involves creating a stub and adding the article to a category. When did this change? I see no reference to a recent change on this Talk page, even in the archives. —Largo Plazo (talk) 11:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC) Please, help me Per favore, aiutiloMoved from Template:Translated page/doc — Tivedshambo (t/c) 21:12, 5 April 2009 (UTC)
TFD of article-space translation templatesInterested parties may wish to comment at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2009 April 13#Category:Interwiki translation templates. –xeno (talk) 15:22, 13 April 2009 (UTC) How to request a proofreaderSo, is it a secret? How does one actually start off the proofreading process? The difficulty with a lot of Wikipedia help, I find, is it is written almost as a process reference guide rather than a tutorial or user guide. I find it one of the most frustrating parts of Wikipedia. PLEASE don't send me on a wild goose chase of links. Just tell me, quite plainly and simply, how I mark up an article (or its talk page) to say "please proofread this, someone". The articles I need proofreading are: Thanks. Si. SimonTrew (talk) 04:04, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
Help with likely Indian userUser talk:Ironboy11 has been overlinking big time on a couple Indian-related articles. I feel the warning notes aren't getting through. Any have an idea how to suss out what language and help them? -- Banjeboi 04:55, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
I don't know how proper English title should be. But the article explains how news department in Japanese networks is operated. -- 59.5.206.236 (talk) 09:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC) InverseWhat about translatin from english to another language, the english wikipedia has the most amount of articles, and the other wikipedias are still in the need. I know that some other wikipedias have their projects, but sometimes it´s missing, or is not as widely developed and crowded as the one in the english wikipedia. I think that a section for export trranslations is needed. - ☩Damërung ☩. -- 15:44, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
When not to translateAre there times when a link into another langauge is preferable to a translation? I am currently having a dispute with other Wikipedians on this matter and opposing views have been expressed. The issue arose when I read an article about a sports event that is highly newsworthy in a country where English is not the main langauge, but is only of passing interest in English-language countries. Both the English language and foreign language versions of Wikipedia listed of past winners with links to their biographies, but most of the English language links were red. In my view, these winners would not pass the English-language notability test, so I amended the red links to point to the foreign language biographies. My changes were revoked, I reinstated them and they were revoked again. Does this forum have any view on this state of affairs? Martinvl (talk) 18:07, 21 August 2009 (UTC) Inaccurate, sometimes POV, translationsI've noticed the creation of a few interwikis lately of Canadian geography etc articles to Norwegian Wikipedia; I can read Norwegian a bit, so had a look at Great Bear Rainforest and Princess Royal Island. The Norwegian articles have different content than the originals and in the case of Great Bear Rainforest make some statements that were revised out of the Canadian edition, namely that this is not a region but the name given to a region by environmental groups, i.e. a rebranding effort for the North and Central Coasts. While a widespread name, it's not the most common name nor is it accepted by most of the people who live there (who are vast-majority aboriginal and have their own placenames in the area). Also the Princess Royal Island article repeats part of the enviro-hype, claiming this to be the world's largest temperate rainforest, which is a claim also made re the Tongass National Forest in Alaska. The GBR is only part of the regional rainforest, with pick-and-choose boundaries made by enviro-orgs only. I haven't looked around other Interwikis for that article, but I'm starting to wonder what the content is re many articles in their other-language versions; shouldn't materials on a certain country/region reflect the home-country/language version? This really makes me wonder what's in, for example, the Chinese language versions of Chinese Canadian or History of Chinese immigration to Canada; the latter in particular had in its first incarnations a lot of outright lies and misrepresentations and tons of POV language incl. invective. Between environmental campaigns on the one hand, and ethnic-history articles on the other, I can think of a few dozen articles where I'd suspect that the interwiki articles are "tainted" or just not written/cited properly/factual. Is there any way to tag articles in other-language wikis to have someone check to the "original" and make sure the facts and citations are carried over? Neither of the Norwegian articles in question have citations though they're pretty well stubs; it's also a concern to me that the pick-and-choose nature of what gest translated may leave out major articles that should be translated, while those on someone's agenda will get translated over; in this case the regional article is British Columbia Coast.Skookum1 (talk) 12:31, 24 August 2009 (UTC) TFD of Expand language templatesInterested parties may wish to comment on the proposed deletion of the entire family of {{Expand language}} templates at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2009 August 24#Expand language template family. --RL0919 (talk) 17:22, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
RfC: Expand language template family - Should editors be encouraged to translate interwiki articles?
The Expand language template family (Template:Expand language, whereas "language" can be either language of another wikipedia) encourages editors to expand the tagged articles by translating a distinct article from another wikipedia. That strikes me as a call to ignore all content-related wikipedia policies, as it implies that the interwiki text (and thus its invoked translation) stringently follows WP:V and WP:NPOV. The template is encouraging editors to use wikipedia as a source. If the other wikipedia article pointed to by the template actually has good sources, a mere translation will not ensure that the sources are properly represented - one has to read and evaluate them anew to ensure compliance with WP:V and WP:NPOV, and if one has done so, a translation of the interwiki is superfluous as one should then be able to write the same in one's own words even better. If the interwiki-sources are however not good, misrepresented or missing, a translation of the interwiki-article eventually does harm to this wikipedia. An example is Karl Frenzel, where the template encourages editors to translate a completely unsourced article. In a nutshell, the "Expand language" templates only work under the premise that the interwiki articles are written according to the en.wikipedia policies, based on sound sources which are properly evaluated and presented. This hoever can not be taken for granted, and most certainly many interwiki articles flunk that as do many en.wikipedia articles. Even if the interwiki article is a FA, one can not unconditionally trust that WP:V and WP:NPOV are fulfilled, there or here. Thus, the template family must in my view be deleted, but I was deferred here when I brought this up at TfD. Please read Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2009 August 24#Expand language template family for this discussion. Alternatively, the template family must be radically converted into an unobtrusive template family proposing to check what interwikis there are and what sources they use. Skäpperöd (talk) 17:39, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Inb this page I read:
but Template:Expand Basque does not have these links. --Error (talk) 00:30, 30 December 2009 (UTC)
FLC of Takeo Kimura filmographyNot so much a translation request as a how'd-I-do? Takeo Kimura filmography is currently a featured list candidate here. The filmography is primarily based on Japanese language sources and I'm having a lot of trouble finding reviewers able to verify that aspect of the list. Even reviews of a single section will be appreciated (currently one person has looked over the 1940s section). Thank you, Doctor Sunshine (talk) 03:25, 29 August 2009 (UTC) Why is attribution of translated pages placed on Talk page?Why is the source of a translated article given in the talk page and not on its main page? I do understand that Wikipedia articles are not considered reliable sources, so this question is regarding attribution, not sourcing. In general, when an outside site uses a Wikipedia article, according to Wikipedia:Copyrights, they must provide credit to the authors by providing a hyperlink or URL to the page or pages they are re-using. Shouldn't these attribution requirements apply for inter-Wikipedia re-use of material through translation, and be done so on the face page of the re-used article, like external users are expected to do, rather than its talk page, which is not obvious to casual readers? --İnfoCan (talk) 17:46, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Précis of of foreign language articlesI have seen a number of articles that that are a précis of an equivalent article that appears in a foreign language version of Wikipedia. Often the article discusses a matter that is more pertinent to the foreign language than to English, making a full translation into English inappropriate. Such articles are sometimes flagged for having insufficient references. Would it be appropriate for these articles to identify themselves as being a précis of the foreign language article in much the same way that the "Main article" byline is used in English language articles and thereby implictly use the references in the foreign language article? Martinvl (talk) 07:00, 17 October 2009 (UTC) Environmental Terminology Discovery ServiceThis message is about the following external link: Environmental Terminology Discovery Service — EEA. I added this link under a new heading "External links", but it was removed at 16:55, 9 December 2009. The edit summary says: "[rv] Pg discusses translation of foreign-language WP articles into English; added link to dictionary of environmental terms doesn't fit?"
-- Wavelength (talk) 21:03, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
Translation projectUser:Proteins and I are in contact with a technology company that wishes to use some software it has developed that is a kind of graphic interface for translators to increase the amount of health-related information in developing-world languages. Since this is quite a large company, this project might eventually cover many languages, but we are thinking about starting off small at around five (eg Swahili is one leading option). The real work will be in developing a community of translators and bilingual experts in each destination language, and the company is willing to help with this as well, but at our end we will need to provide a list of articles on "essential health information", internationalize these as much as possible, and polish them a bit. This proposal is still in its initial stage, but could people who would be interested in participating sign up here. Thank you Tim Vickers (talk) 17:11, 22 December 2009 (UTC)
Article in FrenchI have a pdf article in French that I would like to use as a source for a dermatology-related article. Is there anyone that could help me translate it? ---kilbad (talk) 23:31, 25 January 2010 (UTC) Please improve instructions at top of pageThis page states "To request a translation of an English Wikipedia article into another language, click on a sidebar link to do so at the appropriate foreign-language Wikipedia." The statement is not helpful. First, the page may not exist at all in the foreigh-language wikipedia. How does one find a sidebar to an article that does not exist? Second, I examined in great detail the sidebars of multiple foreign-language wikipedias, and found absolutely no link relevant to translation. How does one click on a link that does not exist? Please improve this very confusing statement and/or the procedure to request translation. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.165.239.118 (talk) 03:44, 9 March 2010 (UTC) Translation for Mosque of Uqba from the featured article in french wikipediaGrande mosquée de Kairouan (in french wikipedia) is an excellent featured article about an important monument (architectural masterpiece) and religious building (one of the oldest great mosques and the oldest in the muslim west). The english article Mosque of Uqba is referenced but very short and do not give enough details while the article in French (Grande mosquée de Kairouan) is full of details about the architecture and decoration of this huge monument. It would be very interesting to translate the featured french article. I can help in the architectural vocabulary. Cordially Quincy2010 (talk) 21:07, 21 March 2010 (UTC) Not sure if the page at Wikipedia talk:Translation/Airmail is in the right place or what stage of development it is at. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 18:51, 2 April 2010 (UTC) Bill Vander Zalm, Dutch translation plsPlease see Talk:Bill_Vander_Zalm#.22the_Zalm.22; Vander Zalm is an extremely well-known Dutch Canadian, I was very surprised to see there's only German, French and Finnish versions of his page....Skookum1 (talk) 16:58, 13 April 2010 (UTC) Medicine and molecular cellular biology Wikiprojects announce collaboration with Google.orgAnnouncement of the first stages of a project to peer-review, improve and translate medical and biology articles so that material can be transferred from the English Wikipedia to other Wikipedias that are written in languages used in developing world. Tim Vickers (talk) 17:54, 16 April 2010 (UTC) Spanish-language news sourcesToday I discovered these two Spanish-language sources for news about the environment.
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Wavelength (talk • contribs) 01:04, 12 May 2010 (UTC)
-- Wavelength (talk) 03:23, 12 May 2010 (UTC) References?What about the references? Should we put the ones listed in the foreign article that we are translating from? or put no references or cite wikipedia itself as the reference or what? - ☩Damërung ☩. -- 06:42, 19 May 2010 (UTC)
Translate into Turkish?Hi, I was fixing the work of a bot (removed interwiki links which went to redirects) when I noticed that the Turkish article for peak oil (tr:Petrol üretim zirvesi) had been deleted in March. Seems this is a very important topic and should at least have a stub over there. How do I request a translation to Turkish? Would it be kosher for someone to do a machine translation of our intro and create a stub? 69.116.144.208 (talk) 16:15, 26 May 2010 (UTC) Inline translation template for phrasesNote: I haven't written much for Wikipedia, so I'm not sure if the following exists. I searched around, so I'm sorry if I missed it. I think a template/tool to help translate phrases (such as titles in various jobs) is needed. While I can use dictionaries for most words, phrases are sometimes nearly impossible to translate well. For instance, while I was stuck on translating "Barne- og Ungdomsansvarlig" from Norwegian to English (lit. "Children and Youth Responsible"), I was fairly sure that there existed a more commonly used English title for the same thing (or a "norm" if you will, if the exact title/phrase didn't exist in English). Knowing that "Barne- og Ungdomsminister" (lit. "Children and Youth Minister") would commonly translate to "Minister for Children," I decided to copy that logic, but I'll ultimately say that it's not always easy to figure out. "Responsible for Children" sounds awfully awkward for a job position in English. I propose a template that allows users to request translation for a phrase in-line, noting that an uncertain translation has been used. Readers will see the note, and future editors with advanced knowledge of the language might fix it. E.g. {{direct translation |Lang=no |Phrase=Barne- og Ungdomsansvarlig |Direct=Children and Youth Responsible |Proposal=Responsible for Children}} Explanation: Lang=no denotes the language and should accept standard country names or country codes. Phrase is the original phrase, Direct is a direct translation (to let non-Norwegian editors understand and fix it) and Proposal is a suggested translation. Proposal should be optional, but should be the phrase used in the article if provided. Otherwise, Direct should be used. If a similar feature already exists, it should be linked in this article or made more visible. That said, I am fairly bit tired (desperately guarding myself from embarrassment, obviously). 158.37.73.100 (talk) 05:26, 29 May 2010 (UTC) Can't find templateWhere is the template for the discussion page of articles that have been translated from e.g. German Wikipedia to English? I've seen it, but can't remember where, and can't find it in WP help. — ℜob C. alias ᴀʟᴀʀoʙ 20:28, 23 September 2010 (UTC) Requesting German to English assistanceI've been a bit busy lately and haven't been able to give Mungonzazal Janshindulam (Artikel auf Deutsch) much attention. I've been working on this per the request of Veden11 (talk · contribs). Anyone who has a moment to spare to contribute to the translation, please jump in and help speed the process up. Please note the part about receiving the Tchaikovsky Award is incorrect-- that should be the "Wettbewerb den Sonderpreis". Bob the Wikipedian (talk • contribs) 21:46, 27 November 2010 (UTC)
A bit of a Catch-22This page's format changed some time ago, though I don't know anything about that decision; I once made several translation requests by adding redlinks according to the language from which the needed article is being translated. The new format requires that you actually create a stub article to request the translation. However...if you create a stub article to request a translation for a living person, your article is going to be deleted per WP:BLPPROD. This actually happened to at least one article whose translation I requested. Being as the main reason why one would make such a request is the paucity of available English-language sources...this ends up being a catch-22. Perhaps this should inspire a change in procedure? Chubbles (talk) 14:09, 6 December 2010 (UTC) User Translator/Proofreader 2Proposing an alternative for users who are interested in translating/proofreading, but don't want to be branded "a translator ... on Wikipedia:Translation", because they don't wish to be a member of the project, or because they dislike to imply that they are frequently active there (they may or may not be). I think we should name the variants Template:User Translator 2 and Template:User Proofreader 2. How about this:
Cheers, theFace 21:06, 11 December 2010 (UTC)
User BoxesHow do I you create a user box that says I can translate from English into another language ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by PonyoOnTheCliff (talk • contribs) 17:52, 8 January 2011 (UTC) WikiProject Translation at WikisourceWikiProject Translation at Wikisource is a new multi-language initiative to cooperatively translate source texts from multiple languages, in order to make them more accessible to other-language speakers. If you are interested in sharing ideas or contributing to the project, please comment at s:Wikisource talk:WikiProject Translation. --Eliyak T·C 15:04, 12 January 2011 (UTC) Translation guidelinesIs there a set of guidelines for translators beyond that on this article? --Bermicourt (talk) 15:50, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
Translation requestsCreating a stub is impossible for a non-autoconfirmed user. Shouldn't there be a request page available? Similar to WP:RA ? 184.144.160.156 (talk) 07:48, 15 March 2011 (UTC) Missing English Translation Finding Tool is a Dead LinkJoanJoc's tool to find pages in other languages that are not available in English goes to a dead link. Is there somewhere else that has a similar tool to find pages in other languages automatically that need an English translation? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neal.chambers (talk • contribs) 13:42, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Translation from English into other languagesThis project page concerns itself almost entirely with translation into English, but I cannot find anything about the converse. For example, at the top of WP:RT there is a hand-coded divbox (which I've just reworded) requesting translation into several other languages. There is also a request at the bottom (of the same page) for a template to produce just such a divbox/boilerplate message. I thought I might try to tackle this (code a new template) so I've had a look around to see what's already available. There's {{notenglish}}, which appears to perform the opposite function. To be honest I found the whole subject of translation on WP to be in a bit of a mess. My question is this; should I just be bold and try to organize something myself? The thing is, I won't be the one providing translations, I'm just a designer and a programmer. Regards, nagualdesign (talk) 22:06, 21 March 2011 (UTC)
Dual translation i.e. both from and to EnglishCould the process of requesting a dual translation (English to x, and x to English) could be made easier? Here's the background to my question. I have recently created a biography stub for the German photographer Frauke Eigen. It contains recent material which should be added to de:Frauke Eigen, where her biography is out of date, although it contains older material that needs to be added to the English article. What I really want to do is request the help of a translator to update both articles, not just the English one. So I really want to tag the German article as well. However, to do this, I'd need to go through German Wikipedia. I'm not unwilling to try, but it is difficult to do, error prone and possibly even discourteous. It seems likely to me very likely that the scenario I've described won't be unusual, i.e., there'll quite often be a need to translate in both directions. Am I mistaken? What do other people think about this? Rubywine (talk) 02:16, 2 August 2011 (UTC) Should we have the Expand language template?Our policy is not to use Wikipedia itself as a source for Wikipedia articles. In practise people do copy material from one article to another, as a shortcut way of building an article, though this is not the recommended way of working. Our preferred model is to research the most reliable sources on the topic and summarize what they say, with each statement in the article attributable to a source that makes that statement. While people may wish to shortcut the preferred model and utilise material from other language Wikipedias, I am unsure that we should be urging or encouraging people to do this, especially when they do not themselves know the language of the other Wikipedia, and are being instructed to use Google Translate. When I have come upon this template and examined the linked article I have all too frequently found that the the foreign language article was not adequately and/or usefully sourced. Our policy does encourage that we first use English sources. As this template appears to be running counter to good advice, good practise, and at least two core policies, is there a value to keeping it? SilkTork *Tea time 18:13, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
No it does not look good to me and I created the templates. These templates were NOT designed to be stuck in hiding on talk pages, They are intended to directly encourage editors to trnalstae content. SOme articles are so extrmeely lacking that any translated content is useful. SilkTork's actions here indicate he has very little experience in actual transwiki work and how it works.♦ Dr. Blofeld 16:04, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
"I would prefer that an experienced Wikipedian who understands our requirements for reliable sources, and our preference in the English Wikipedia for English language sources, and who is a skilled translator, to be doing the work." Yes that's me, only I can't be expected to do all of the translation work. Much of Fuerte San Miguel (Uruguay) was transwikied from Spanish, only sources were found to support the text for instance. Same with Fort Teremba from French etc.. But moving the template to the talk page will not achieve what you desire. The best thing is what you've already done, reworded the template to indicate sources need to be found to support translations.♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:55, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
A corresponding article in Norwegian Nynorsk Wikipedia may contain information and sources useful in building this article. As our policy is not to use Wikipedia itself as a source for articles, please ensure you do not use any uncited statements. Also, check the sources on cited statements before using - replacing foreign language sources where possible with English language ones. (December 2009) After translating, (Translated|nn|Hellisøy fyrstasjon} must be added to the talk page to ensure copyright compliance. Translation instructions · Google translation (for guidance only - text not to be copied into this article) In my view the shrinkable part should be from "As our policy" downwards. If we can shrink that section down to just iclude "Guidlines" show, then all it needs is a "A corresponding article in Norwegian Nynorsk Wikipedia may contain information and sources useful in building this article. "♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:58, 20 June 2011 (UTC) The best possible solution would be a] Shrink the template down in the articles with a shrinkable "Guidelines" option. b] In this guidelines section we strongly assert that all articles being transwikied MUST be supported by reliable sources given in the articles and caution must be exercised with the google translations and if stuck with an awkward translation to ask for assistance. E.g if an editor is translating material he MUST try to verify as much of the information as he can himself. Right Silk?♦ Dr. Blofeld 19:20, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Further discussionThe template is currently used on a mix of article pages and talk pages. I would argue that such meta-data belongs on the talk page and, while I understand the advertising idea of having it in a more prominent position I do feel that it should not be so public. violet/riga [talk] 22:32, 4 August 2011 (UTC)
Template listed for discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2011 August 5. violet/riga [talk] 10:51, 5 August 2011 (UTC) How to translateI strongly oppose the introduction of Orwells's advice, which is completely irrelevant here. Orwell was not giving advice for writing encyclopaedia articles. As regards his unreflected advice on the use of the passive, it appears that, in his essay which attacked the use of the passive he actually used the passive more than most people:
Perhaps we should do as he does, not do as he says. Recommending translators to avoid using the passive will not lead to better translations. It all depends on what the topic of the sentence is, what one wants to say about the topic, and what constraints English puts on element order. Sometimes the topic happens to be the agent, and the active voice is fine, e.g.
Sometimes the topic is not the agent, and the passive may be more appropriate. Frequent use of the passive is normal and appropriate in many encyclopaedia articles. For instance, in the article on John F. Kennedy it is appropriate to write
Use of the passive allows the information to be introduced in the desired order. Joseph M. Williams (in Style: The Basics of Clarity and Grace) explains it much better than Orwell:
For some views by a professor of Linguistics, see here: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=2990. --Boson (talk) 16:38, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
I have had another stab at the advice for translators. Orwell wrote "Never use the passive where you can use the active." This doesn't mean that the passive voice shouldn't be used at all. Of course I also use the passive voice when it is a better option. Anyway, if this rule seems so controversial, we can omit it. It's not crucial here. I've just added "(or the other way around)" to avoid the impression that the use of the passive instead of the active voice is recommended in English.--Sylwia Ufnalska (talk) 21:48, 18 July 2011 (UTC) Requesting a translation instructions as clear as mudRequesting a translation Requesting a translation from a foreign-language Wikipedia into English is easy. Simply place a translation template from the category Category:Expand by language Wikipedia templates on the article page which needs translating from the relative Wikipedia. For example, {{Expand Spanish|Fuerteventura}} could be placed on the article Fuerteventura as the article is of a high standard on Spanish Wikipedia but not in English and thus needs to be translated into English. If no English-language article exists yet, please start a stub article explaining or defining the subject of the article in a sentence or two. Then tag your stub article with a translation template. This is clear as mud. The explanation is incomprehensible. Do you place the template on the non-English article, or on the English stub article, or both? Why does this tell you firstly to place the translation template (somewhere) and then secondly to start a stub article in English if one does not exist? Is it assuming that in most cases, there will be already an English article of a lower standard? For something so simple, this is completely unclear and unhelpful. Rubywine (talk) 22:00, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
Machine translationsThe guideline currently states: "Wikipedia consensus is that an unedited machine translation, left as a Wikipedia article, is worse than nothing." In my experience, an edited machine translation is often even worse than an unedited translation. It conveys the impression that a knowledgeable editor would have translated the text, while still containing the content-related errors in a machine translation. I have often seen translations from English to German, or from French to German that got major issues wrong, such as changing an affirmative statement to a opposing statement. Translations of other languages are often even worse. As long as machine translations do not improve significantly, I would suggest that we state unambiguously that machine translations should never be used to support the inclusion of any content in an article. Cs32en Talk to me 21:50, 1 August 2011 (UTC)
Translation takes work. Machine translation often produces very low quality results.
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