User talk:Yom

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Talla and araqi

Hi, I'd like to make articles on talla (Ethiopian beer) and araqi (Ethiopian liquor). Can you help? As with many Ethiopian subjects, I don't think there are many sources available. Badagnani 22:03, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I just began a Tella article; would you mind taking a look to see if you could improve it? Badagnani 23:13, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ottoman Empire map

Hi again Yom and thanks a lot for reminding me of the map and the corrections I'm supposed to do. I've been overwhelmed by classes / homeworks and could not spare the time to work on the map. What I was planning to do was to get my hands on a nice and reputable published atlas of the Ottoman Empire and to make an extensive revision on the map (there have been issues with a few other regions too). But since this proved to take long, I will go ahead and fix it in light of the information you've provided. Teanaste’lle’n, Atilim Gunes Baydin 22:08, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tsemai

Hi, I just learned about the Tsemai ethnic group of Ethiopia. Do they have a WP article and, if not, do you know something about them? Badagnani 23:13, 30 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've added a photo of a Tsemai woman at Tella. Would you check it to make sure all looks right? Although we don't have an article for Weyto, where the photo was taken, I think it must be in the Debub Omo Zone of the Southern Minorities and People's Region. Tourist groups apparently go there. Badagnani 05:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shawel

Hey yom, i understood what you meant on your Hailu shawel deletion. But as you know, the original sub-topic was "Derg advocate" or derg supporter. That one, you also deleted it. Anyhow, my question is regarding the new sub-title you used which was "alleged dictator." The last quote there was of Hailu saying that when Ethiopia was under the Mengistu people in our country "were living in peace and harmony." Clearly, such comments and way of thinking by Hailu was an insult to the hundreds of thousands of Ethiopians killed as well as even more dead in famines. But that quote becames basically meaningless unless what kind of time Hailu shawel is praising is indicated in the same article. Just saying he praised this and this era doesn't make him any extra dictator or an outrageous person to the typical wikipedia reader. So i need to know why you deleted the important part that explains what exactly hailu was praising. Unless what he praised is not detailed, the quote is meaningless to the typical person in this world. I believe the detail should be returned. In addition, ending that section with an ambigious quote is also awkward unless more detail is given. For many reasons, i believe the sourced detail i gave should not be deleted. I would like to know your position on this after you reason out what i am saying. Ethiopiawit1 19:54, 2 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ethiopiawit1, I have edited that section heavily, now. I removed irrelevant information (like encouragements by the U.S. to take the seats and comments on the election) and tried attributing every claim made with the sources provided (and added a source), but there are still some that need to be sourced. The section has been renamed to "Criticism," so you can add any criticism (sourced and by notable outlets) to that section. I also removed the quotation about the Derg since the source in which the quotation was found was not criticizing him for it. It's fine to include the quotation if you wish, but if you want to portray it as something he has been criticized for, you must find a source that actually criticizes him for it. Otherwise, it is original research, as you are making the criticism yourself, rather than attributing it to a reliable and notable source. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 05:58, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tella and Tsemai

Many thanks. The obscure Ethiopian liquors are not mentioned much online, though tej is well known. I've done quite a bit of work on obscure Asian rice wines (there are hundreds of them) and would like to document the Ethiopian ones properly as well. Have you ever tried tella? Info on the Tsemai, like the Hamar, appears to come from "adventure travel" websites (the Hamar was featured on that show "Going Tribal" where the white guy had to jump over a bunch of cows like they do). So our work really can have educational benefit, if we're able to find the sources. Oh, Ethnologue seems to have them as the "Tsamai," not "Tsemai." Badagnani 06:18, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't find the population figures. Oh, and the regions, zones, and woredas are just impossible to figure out. From my research, it seems that the Tsamai in Weyto are in their own special woreda that is NOT part of the Debub Omo Zone, but IS part of the Southern Nationalities and People's Region. Some of the other ethnic groups in that border area also have their own "special" woredas that are not part of any Zone. Is there some resource that would be able to figure this out, as per current Ethiopian border policy? Badagnani 06:26, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is it possible they live in the Hamer Bena woreda? This article says it is part of the Debub Omo Zone but some online sources say the ethnic woredas in the area are not part of Debub Omo. And one source said the Tsamai homeland has its own woreda. It's just impossible. Badagnani 07:10, 3 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sennar and other "tributary kingdoms"

Hi Yom, first I want to say that I've been wanting to get my hands on E. van Donzel's book for quite a while. If you find anything worth adding from it to Wikipedia, please do!

As to the question of these 4 kingdoms & their relationship to Ethiopia, the problem with many of these lists of Ethiopian provinces & client kingdoms is that as time passed these lists not only grew more & more out of date but sometimes even fantastical. Part of the reason was, of course, the expected bravado & propaganda motives of the Emperor & his supporters, but the person reporting often contributed to this fiction: I know Remedius Prutky, writing about Ethiopia circa 1750, reused a list of provinces that had its origins in a similar list compiled during Lebna Dengel's reign! Even though Prutky is clearly not one of the most reliable sources about Ethiopia (there are a number of passages where it's hard not to conclude that he was prejudiced against Ethiopia & its inhabitants, pure & simple), he was not alone in perpetrating this image.

As for the four client kingdoms, you got them mostly right. Let me list them with their most common identifications, with comments:

• Sennar -- obviously the kingdom of Sennar. By Iyasu II's reign, the Ethiopian Empire had developed a claim that they were a rebellious province; however, there is no evidence that Sennar had ever been part of the Empire, & some that suggests that the Ethiopian monarch simply wanted to conquer this neighbor. Alvarez records the interesting story that he witnessed, where a delegation of Christians from Nubia/Sennar came to Lebna Dengel, asking for priests & other helps to keep their faith alive. Lebna Dengel told them that he got his chief religious from the patriarch in Egypt, & sent them away empty-handed -- an unwise move.
• Naria -- actually, your identification is off. I'd bet money that this is meant to be Ennarea, which the Jesuits in Susenyos' reign called "Naria". It was known for the large amounts of gold its rulers sent to the Ethiopian Emperor when it was to their advantage. Mohammed Hassan recounts in his The Oromo of Ethiopia: a History (1570-1860) how this kingdom not only survived thru the 16th & 17th centuries, but managed to become a respectable power up to the reign of Iyasu the Great.
• Bugia -- never heard of this kingdom before. Your guess that they were the Beja seems plausible to me. Prutky doesn't mention them, but he does list a tributary "Kingdom of the Shankalla", so you can guess how reliable he can be. ;-)
• Dongola -- obviously the capital of the extinct Makuria kingdom. Just an example of how reliable this account might be. It might be de Thévenot who makes this claim, not the envoy Hag Michael Abu Yusef, which would explain why the Afar Sultanate or the Kingdom of Kaffa wasn't part of this list -- assuming Hag Michael Abu Yusef knew of their existence.

Does this answer your question? -- llywrch 02:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm limiting my responses to Sennar; about the other topics you ask about, your guess is as good as mine -- if not better, since it sounds as if you have the books at hand. If I learn anything different, I'll be happy to share it with you.

I don't think Christian Sudan was ever under Axum's control for more than (at most) a brief time. There is evidence of an Axumite army in Nubia around AD 300, but I don't think there is any proof that it stayed there more than a year, if that long. The distance between Axum & Meroe was just too much for a state with the technology of the period to maintain contact. The Makuria kingdom probably took shape in the early 7th century, & starts attracting historical notices by the end of that century. As for when the Ethiopian claims on Sennar or any other part of Christian Sudan were first made, my guess is that they must have preceded Iyasu II -- he doesn't strike me as the sort to have invented the claim & if he had, he had so little respect from his people that no one would have taken the claim seriously. O.G.S Crawford wrote a book on the kingdom of Sennar that I've been trying to find -- I suspect that might have the answer. -- llywrch 05:07, 6 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm guessing "Funj" refers to the people & "Sennar" to the kingdom. (The Wikipedia article originally was named simply "Sennar" but someone renamed it for reasons I've never looked into.) Much like "Habasha" & "Ethiopia". So a Funj king may not be a king of Sennar. My guess is based on the fact that the origins of the Funj is still something of a mystery (yeah, beyond the fact that they came from northeastern Africa ;-); one of the reports on the Sudan-Ethiopia electrical interconnect on the Ethiopia Power Company web page mentions this lack of information; BTW, both reports contain some surprisingly useful information on the local level about western Ethiopia (by which I mean western Amhara Region, western Oromia & western Benishangul-Gumuz) & SE Sudan -- I plan on mining them to fill out the respective woredas.

But back to your question. The confusing thing is that, even after assuming that king of Funj != king of Sennar, there are still some complications. If I am correct in identifying Pankhurst's king Erubat with Rabat I (the times fit), this means that on one hand he gave sanctuary to the son of Emperor Yaqob of Ethiopia, but on the other kidnapped the bishop Abba Yeshaq. (And if Abba Yeshaq was travelling to Ethiopia to become an Abuna, then what do we make of Abuna Simon of Ethiopia?) What does the translation of Susenyos' Royal Chronicle say? (I'm assuming you have a copy close at hand.)

As a last word, yuor discovery fits a theory I've had about Ethiopian international relations in this period. Care to hear it? -- llywrch 19:25, 16 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Amharic Wikipedia

Yom, you contribute the Amharic edition of Wikipedia, right? You might be interested in this notice of the work there; look to the second paragraph. -- llywrch 15:40, 7 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I don't really contribute anywhere other than here. I only fix small mistakes from time to time at the French, Amharic, and Arabic Wikipedias when I notice there's a version of the English page. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 04:11, 8 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Copyright in Ethiopia

First, great find about the Atlas.

From what little I know about materials released by governments outside the US, my inclination is to assume that they are under copyright, & reuse may involve paying a fee. Remember, Ethiopia is a poor country, so they are looking for any revenue stream that they can find; & a lot of nations charge for access to their official statistics, GIS information, etc. The US is unusual in that all of the material the government produces is considered part of the PD. For example, the UK places everything under Crown Copyright, which then passes to the PD after 50 years. (Hey, it's more generous than Disney corporation is with the rights to an animated mouse.)

As for Ethiopian copyright in general, I have no other answer to than to say, "They have a copyright law, it's been tightened recently, but it's unclear how or even if it is enforced". This annoys me because Pankhurst's Economic History of Ethiopia (published in Ethiopia in 1967, with no copyright notice) contains several useful illustrations that would improve certain articles. If these images are effectively PD, I'd scan them & upload them to Commons; if there is some rights involved, I might scan the ones worth the hassle to learn what the law is & upload them here. (Boy, we could have our very own Ethiopian copyright template -- "This material was first published in Ethiopia; status and laws are unknown, so fair use guidelines presumed" ;-) -- llywrch 18:46, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Alf vote

Perhaps you might want to point out where the voting had a end date on it. I didn't see one. If you removed it because you think consensus was found, you should be aware that consensus is not a static thing, and can change quite quickly. - Arcayne (^cast a spell) 06:48, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I appreciate you contactingme back so quickly. I don't see any posting where the admin "closed" discussion. Might you point it out? - Arcayne (^cast a spell) 06:50, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see. Didn't know that. While you are 'fixing up' the Discussion page, you might want to make a note that the consensus was signed off on by the admin two weeks ago. That way, if new editors happen by (like myself), they will know what's what. Not mentioning is just begging for trouble. - Arcayne (^cast a spell) 06:54, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which is kinda why I and others challenged it. I created a new section for my comments but, as the survey did not state or allow for an expiration date, my vote should still be counted. That's just reasonable. Discussing the matter prevetns a lot of the nattering and reverting that eventually happens when people feel their voice isn't counted. - Arcayne (^cast a spell) 07:03, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but the admin didn't close the discussion, he just moved the page. It would just as easy to un-move it. I see what you mean, though, and I appreciate the advice. I will likley act on it in the next day or two. I am going to be away fromt he comp for most of the day tomorrow. Thanks for hearing me out and being polite about it - you'd be amazed how many peple are either instransigent or just too friggin' stubborn to even entertain discussion. - Arcayne (^cast a spell) 07:35, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think you will note that the matter has died down bc Viri (apparently based in Hawaii) might very well be asleep. I imagine he will kick-start the crazy when he awakens. - Arcayne (^cast a spell) 00:47, 11 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I would love the tea, but the fellow seems to not catch the drift that unpleasant posts are not to be tolerated in Wikipedia. I could simply rmeove the entire post, or have the fellow banned, but those both seem too harsh. And as no one else seems to be suggesting that he tone down his posts, I am left with rmeoving only those bits which are uncivil or personal attacks on me, while retaining the rest. I am not the bad guy here. I am trying to help the DAB get squared away, and I am certainly not unreasonable. - Arcayne (^cast a spell) 09:33, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

you is so ugly== The border war was declaired a stalemate. ==

The border war was a large stalemate. Majority of articles describe the war as one large stalemate after the other. The war ended on a peace treaty, not a full military victory where a government was removed from power. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ethioboy101 (talk • contribs) 10:49, June 10, 2007 (UTC)

The border war is described like the Iraq and Iran war, in which that too is a stalemate because no government was changed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ethioboy101 (talk • contribs) 10:31, June 10, 2007 (UTC)

The gulf war didn't have the American government going to court to dispute over kuwait, with the Iraqi government, after it had captured Kuwait. Ethiopia however decided to go for a peace deal to end the war. This war is like the Iraq-Iran war, it's called a stalemate. Majority of reporters deemed it as such and it will remain as such. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ethioboy101 (talk • contribs) 19:06, June 10, 2007 (UTC)

FYI Requests for checkuser Randyreporter --Philip Baird Shearer 22:25, 10 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your revert

Yom, if you're going to revert the entire page on "Population history of Ancient Egypt"(even though I'm not the one who restored that), please if you will, see the talk page first and address the concerns there because it seems that they did that for a reason and are pretty upset. Many people are simply making edits with out comment. It isn't as simple as a page split, they're upset with the fact that all of their content was missing and we need to figure out what needs to go in what section. Thank you.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Population_history_of_ancient_Egypt#Where.27s_the_rest_of_the_articleTaharqa 19:37, 12 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Ethiopian geneologies

I'm not sure what to do about this website. I admit that I've used once or twice in the past, & probably would again -- but the lack of sources troubles me also. Also, there is the fact that a good chunk of these geneologies probably don't exist in a "proper" print form in English; Royal Ark will thus by default be the best source for some of these things for the foreseeable future. Lastly, IIRC, most of these materials exist only in oral form, so it's not even a matter of getting ahold of a text & translating it. (I've noticed that more information about Ethiopia is getting put on the Internet, & once in a while I wonder if it's due to our efforts here at Wikipedia.) One could just cite Royal Ark & leave it at that; I only hope that the time doesn't come when the politically correct club who are now busily purging Wikipedia of all of those subversive Free Use images decide to do the same thing with "unreliable" sources, otherwise their bot-powered edits will leave a lot of articles looking like a dog chewed them up. -- llywrch 22:47, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ethiopia & Somalia

(from Image talk:Map Italophone World.png)
Neither Ethiopia nor Somalia has any native speakers of Italian left (aside from foreigners). They should be removed from the map. I will update a new version of this later if I do not hear any objections.

Yom 06:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Italian is widely understood in Eritrean cities. Additionally, your assertion that "Ethiopia was only occupied during WWII for 5 years" is partially incorrect, as Ethiopia was occupied before WW2 began in May 1936, despite being taken by British forces during WW2 in April 1941. See also: Second Italo-Abyssinian War and Italian East Africa. --NEMT 16:45, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a citation (regarding Eritrea)? See ethnologue, there are almost no monolinguals left. Also see Tekle M. Woldemikael, "Language, Education, and Public Policy in Eritrea," in African Studies Review, Vol. 46, No. 1. (Apr., 2003), pp. 117-136. There is, of 1997, only one Italian school in the country teaching 470 students. As to the war, it is considered part of WWII in Ethiopia, and its liberation was indeed an operation of WWII. I'm going to fix the information in the article with this information on Eritrea. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 19:43, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose I don't have a source, but I've lived in Asmara and never had trouble finding italophones. Additionally, I've never heard anyone refer to the occupation of Ethiopia as part of World War 2. The war began and ended before any widely accepted start date for WW2. --NEMT 22:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the war didn't actually end until 1941, which is part of WWII, and involved the British. Some say that it ended in 1936, but fighting continued throughout the period and is usually included as part of the war (see the cited casualty figures I added to the article and the article that it came from, e.g.). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 23:00, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps in Ethiopia it is considered as such, but not in Italy or the UK - or any other country as far as I know. While resistance continued until the British involvement, the war was officially over before WW2. Anyway, this isn't a point of contention on the article, I had just assumed you may not have known the dates and wanted to point it out to you.--NEMT 23:39, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My theory on Ethiopian foreign strategy

(I'm not sure if this qualifies as original research, but you may be able to use this in school.)

The current theory of Ethiopian political history is that with Fasilides' foundation of his capital at Gondar, Ethiopia went into a period of economic & cultural decline. Obviously the Oromo migrations into the former provinces of the south and southeast had a decisve influence on future devlopments, but I think that Oromo military supremacy did not have the direct effect that some historians believe it did. Instead, I would attribute this re-orientation from the southeast to the northwest due to economic reasons: the decline of the Kaffa-Harar-Zeila trade route.

I think it's fairly uncontroversial that following Oromo occupation of the former provinces of Bale, Fatagar, Damot & others disrupted this trade route. And since their culture was primarily pastorial & decentralized, their elite had no concept that encouraging economic development might be a good thing -- so this trade route declined in importance until the later 18th century with the rise of Shewa. Although Mordechai Abir has found evidence that the entire region suffered an economic depression until the end of the Zemene Mesafint, economic activity continued in Ethiopia at least at the level before the Oromo migrations: by 1700, Gondar was widely considered the most populous city in all of Africa -- including, if I remember my facts correctly, Egypt and northeast Africa. The gold, civet oil and slaves from Kaffa still found their way to the outside world by means of the Kaffa-Gojjam-Gondar-Massawa trade route -- which remained under Ethiopian control.

However, the northwestern frontier presented a new area to expand profitably into due to the Sennar-Gondar trade route, & replace the loss of the Kaffa-Harar-Zeila route. Undoubtedly the Emperors after Sarsa Dengel recognized that opportunity. Gondar was founded to facilitate Imperial oversight in this area, much as Debre Behran & other imperial "cities" were founded in the southeast.

This theory can be tested in a number of ways:

• Many accounts of Ethiopian history state that the move of the Emperors to the Lake Tana area was motived out of security; is this what the contemporary writers said, or is this what the historians think?
• There are a number of unresearched areas in Ethiopian history that touch on this. What is the evidence for the priorities of the Ethiopian elite? I have this impression that except for the campaigns of Iyasu the Great, the former provinces south of the Abay River were largely ignored. Shewa evolved in a backwater, rather than a cultural center.
• Where documents fail, there is always the archeological evidence. Once challenge I've struggled with is attempting to identify all of the old market towns and stops on the trade routes: the primary sources mention them, but experts like Huntingford and Pankhurst still guess where they were located. For example, the author of the Futuh al-Habasha mentions the town of Wiz, where he was amazed to find merchants using money instead of barter! Where was Wiz, & what was its history? Would further information confirm or discredit my theory?
• Lastly, this might also shed some light on the rationale of the rulers of Harar. For example, Emir `Abd al-Shakur ibn Yusuf spent considerable money & resources to rebuild the pilgrimage site of Sheikh Hussein. Were his motivations entirely religious, or was he attempting to reinvigorate the old trade route that had brought so much wealth to his city?

Anyone need a subject for a graduate thesis? -- llywrch 19:36, 17 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Very interesting. I'll respond in full when I have more time. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia

SLavery in Africa keep an eye on it

African slave trade maybe you should keep and eye on this if you dont mind.--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ 20:03, 24 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Shewa

Shewa was still Islamic as was Ifat when Ahmed Ibrahim campaigned against the Amhara kings of Abyssinia. In fact, I can tell you that there are large parts of modern Shoa which are still Muslim. I know because by relatives are from there. A large number of the people of the Christian Ethiopia joined Ahmed Ibrahim against the king because they were forcefully Christianized people chaffing under Amhara rule. Shewa was not seperated from the rest of Ethiopia by Ahmed Ibrahim. He did not ravage it, he reclaimed it.

The term Shewa was co-opted by Amhara Christians relatively recently and expanded to mean large areas that were never Shoa to begin with. The more western Amara Christian Shoa part is not the same the real Shoa which is still very Muslim, and also very Oromo. Ethiohistorian

"In the 16th century, Shewa was ravaged and separated from the rest of Ethiopia by the forces of Ahmed Gragn; the region then came under pressure from the Oromo, who succeeded during the first decades of the next century in settling the depopulated areas around Shewa (which were renamed Welega, Arsi and Wollo). Because of this destruction and isolation, little is known about the details of the history of Shewa until almost 1800. However, Emperor Lebna Dengel and some of his sons used Shewa as their safe haven when threatened by invaders".

Why is the term ravaged used here? It is the Amhara Christian kings who ravaged Shoa per their own records in the royal chronicles when Amda Tsion said pillaged Muslim Shoa and killed many of it's inhabitants?

Since when was the region around Shoa ever depopulated? and by whom? What is the evidence that Shoa included the areas that are now called Arsi, Wellega and Wollo?

Where is any discussion of the the Amhara migration into and conquest of medieval Islamic Shewa? Where is the mention of the indigenous people of Shoa such as the Argobba?

Why are Oromos in Shoa considered as migrants while Amharas who migrated from their region Amhara not referred to as migrants?

This article is quite bad and reads like a propoganda piece for Amhara Christians by not once mentioning the many peoples that have lived in Shoa and still do! Ethiohistorian 20:17, 28 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tej

Hi, in this photo of tej, is it really tej? I thought the liquor that is orange and cloudy has a different name, and is made from fruits instead of just honey. Badagnani 02:46, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks--actually I added the "unfiltered" in the caption...(it was a guess). Badagnani 05:03, 29 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please help-Amharic language request

Hello! The Wikipedia:Graphic Lab is working on artwork related to Ethiopia, and we need some help to get the proper Amharic language text into the artwork. Please visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Graphic_Lab/Images_to_improve#Ethiopia_Scout_Association and see if you can help! Thanking you in advance, Chris 07:34, 30 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Awaze

Hi, I just made a Mitmita article to go with the Berbere one; please add to it as you can. Should awaze have its own article or is that a classifier referring to both spice mixtures? Badagnani 00:58, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

help with translations

I'm currently working on a system intended to create short articles on political parties on a variety of wikipedias simultaneously. However, in order for the technique to work I need help with translations to various languages. If you have time, please help me by filling out blanks at User:Soman/Lang-Help-am so that I can start uploading a series of articles to the amharic wikipedia. Thanks, --Soman 21:38, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Company list AfD

Don't you think that if a company is redlinked, it is likely not in line with WP:N and thus doesn't belong on WP anyway? My feeling is that the links retained by the cats will certainly be notable and useful, as they will be limited to those companies that have articles on them (and thus those companies that have had objective news coverage, business reports, etc., as opposed to say, my neighbor's kid's landscaping business being listed as a US-based business). MSJapan 07:11, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't feel that way because there are plenty of companies out there that I know are notable but aren't on Wikipedia. This is especially the case for the lists that singled out. If there's a redlink on List of Canadian companies, then it probably has a high chance of being NN. This doesn't really cross over to those lists where redlinks dominate, though. For instance, on the Ethiopian page, I know of a number of companies on that list that are redlinked and very notable, and even more that aren't even on the page, some of which are even more notable. I really don't mind the deletion of the former category, as I said on the deletion page, but deletion of those that fall in the latter would result in the loss of all those redlinks that would eventually become articles. Those lists can often be the starting point for anons and low-level contributors. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 07:23, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not going to have an edit war with you.

According to Somaliland times, half the deployed Ethiopian military was killed. Why isn't this mentioned? Also, the result is a peace deal, you have single handedly edited this thread to your liking.

Revert Habesha Confusion

Yom, i apologize for the confusion, but I dont think you understand what i am trying to say in that statement I made in the intro to the habesha article. You see just as you gave that analogy in the past about the two having the same grandfather, so according to the analogy, one of the two guys has died(become extinct)(Sabeans and Pre-Arabic South Arabians), while yet the other one has survived and continued on its ancient traditions and customs and unique languages (habeshas). However yet, this guy (the habesha), should trace his origins to not only his father, but also his grandfather, but mention should be made about his uncle (South Arabians) and how it was possible that he is related by blood to him, and how he actually even looked similar to him (prior to the Arab/Persian conquering of Arabia), so Yom i fully understand what you are saying, and it makes perfect sense, but I am trying to make you look at it from another point of view. Just because I believe in the Sabean theory more than the Indigenous theory more, it does not mean that I believe that the habesha used to look like the light skinned Yemeni Arabs of today since the Sabeans hardly looked like them. Readers of the habesha article should be given information about how the habesha are related to their South Arabian cousins and how they ultimately share the same roots as though they have the same grandfather.

Cluckbang 01:37, 19 July 2007 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Re: Ge'ez alphabet page move

Hi Yom -- per your request, I reverted the move. I consider it a no-brainer decision: while there should be no penalty to "acting boldly", if someone contests a change then the best course is to revert to the status ante quem & discuss. If this page is moved again, though, I think the better course would be to list this at Wikipedia:Requested moves & explain what happened. (While letting me know that this happened, of course!) That way, not only do you benefit from more eyes watching, but it doesn't appear to be a case of favoritism -- which only leads to prolonged & inconclusive content wars. -- llywrch 17:00, 23 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright use of Ezana stone

Hello Yom, I would like to use the image of the Ezana Stone (see next link) in the french version of "History of Ethiopia" that I am currently writing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:EzanaGreekTablet.jpg

Can you tell me if this is possible? Thank you in advance Zheim 11:53, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It's available under Creative Commons license on commons.wikimedia.org -- which means (in one word) yes. -- llywrch 02:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you to both of you for your answers.

Sincerely

Zheim 00:10, 25 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

An article for your review

Alaqa Gebre Hanna. I hope to eventually fill in the holes in this article, but I believe it's worth reading even in its current state. -- llywrch 02:57, 30 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Which source was that? Levine's book, the article from the Journal of American Folklore, or The History of Gondar? (The last book I received just last week, & has a number of interesting facts worth adding to several articles.) -- llywrch 16:07, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Geez font

Hello, Yom, firstly, how is your summer. I am trying t contribute as much as I can before school starts. I wanted to ask you, why is it that the Ge'ez font has to be downloaded to be seen on wikipedia, while other scripts, which are spoken by less than 70 million (habesha population) dont have to download their fonts.Cluckbang 06:31, 3 August 2007 (UTC)Cluckbang[reply]

Meet and greet

Hello, I'd like to have your aquaintance, Yom. You seem very interested in all things Ethiopian and I hope to study Ge'ez sometime in the near future. I am an undergraduate in Linguistics at Michigan State University. I apologize for the rude introduction by my *hopefully* soon-to-be colleague, Glengordon01. (On an earlier version of your User Page.) Academics, I'm finding, are notorious for being unkind brutes. I hope to be the exception.

You have a great interest in this subject. This gravitates toward the spread of knowledge. I wish to be your friend as I prepare to possibly learn Ge'ez under Dr. Grover Hudson.

Please, shoot me an e-mail if you think it'd be neat to have my acquaintance: roger158 (at) msu.edu .

(WikiUser: Epigraphist without his password handy)

Hello. I'll send you an email soon. You may be interested in the forum I created at www.habeshahistory.com, which is focused on Ethiopian and Eritrean history. We could use some more members. ;) — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:49, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Zeragito

I'll see what I can do. Since the move can be undone at any time, I'm more interested in following Gyrofrog's lead & trying to convince Zeragito to play by the rules. I suspect that if I (or another Admin) rolls back the move, he'll decide that he has nothing to lose & only act less civilly. Hope your summer is going well. -- llywrch 16:07, 7 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it appears that Z has decided Wikipedia is not worth his time & left. ::Shrug:: I went ahead & reverted most of his changes (the Eritrean Orthodox Church -> Christians actually made sense once I thought about it). Let me know if this becomes a sticking point in the future. -- llywrch 23:17, 9 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I didn't actually see where you addressed your concern with his edits, though. Where was that? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:47, 10 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I didn't directly. I tried to open a line of dialogue to him by explaining why one should sign one's posts, hoping that if I could get him to respect that simple guideline, I might get him to explain his edits -- but he didn't respond to that overture. Oh well. -- llywrch 07:30, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ancient history of Yemen

I've been watching the Yemen history pages for some time, and seem to have been caught up in a talk page controversy (or round of abuse). I have written to Alameer and Skatewalk on their user talk pages and wanted you to know about it. -- Rob C. alias Alarob 18:29, 11 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ethiopian Civil War

Hello, I saw you are a member of the Ethiopia WikiProject. When you get the chance, please improve Ethiopian Civil War as the article is a two sentence-stub. Thanks, Perspicacite 02:42, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Yom -- This user has been busy revising Template:History of Ethiopia. Not sure I like the changes, but the version before her/his changes wasn't much better. I've let that item slide because I'm still wrestling with the best way to present the subject. What do you think? -- llywrch 22:45, 18 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Modern South Arabian

(for some reason I thought it was Modern South Arabic) "Modern South Arabian" not Arabic, big difference. This language is irrelevant to Arabic or South Western Semitic. In Western Yemen and Ethiopia. just noticed the title of the article. disregard! Modern South Arabian is closer to East Semitic than Southwest Semitic. Southwest Semitic is highly evolved and similar to west Semitic. Modern South Arabian is still pure on the same level Akkadian was 4000years ago! (if not proto-Semitic), keep in mind most Mahra from Kuwait or Yemen are already mixed so they will use the Arabic pronounciation (many of them dont like to speak their older langauge or prefer to add Arabic words and letters because they only have 19 letters you might not find that the case with the urbanized Mahra, but if you go to the mountains in Dhofar and Mahra you will see what I mean--Skatewalk 18:04, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Somali region

Hi! I heard that the Ethiopian military is on a campaign against the ONLF after the Abole raid. I wonder if the government gave any name to the operation, it would help my effort to create an article. Thanks, --TheFEARgod (Ч) 14:55, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not that I know of, sorry. I'll let you know if I find one, though. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:51, 30 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Tigrinya speakers

Hi! I have noticed that you have reverted the edit regarding the number of Tigrinya speakers in Semitic languages, and even said it was a "long overdue correction". I must know where is the basis for that claim. My old edit summary explains it best: "The number of 6.5 million Tigrinya speakers is based on the unsourced claim that all ethnic Tigrinya are speakers of Tigrinya." Please cite that - thanks. Etams 09:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Re: Abebe Aregai

Hi Yom -- I noticed your edit to this article. So "Arbegna" is the singular form & "Arbegnoch" the plural? If so, there is another passage in the article that needs fixing. (And last night I found a more extensive account of Ras Abebe's role in the Woyane revolt that needs to be worked in that same passage.) -- llywrch 21:58, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ethiopian Airlines

I'm puzzled that you find a quote about the airline from the year 2000 (and a quote within that quote from the year 1987) acceptable in a 2007 encyclopedia. The facts given about Ethiopian were doubtless true in 2000 but it tells us zero about the facts seven years later so I can't see the purpose of the Ref. So I've reverted you. Can you tell me how the quote helps the reader (except to tell him/her how things were seven years ago)? Perhaps the wording in the article should be changed to let the reader know that it's outdated information? However if you are determined to have the quote put it back in and I'll leave it alone (under protest), Best Wishes - Adrian Pingstone 21:35, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It helps the reader by giving it an idea of the airline 7 years ago, and 20 years ago. Isn't that notable? Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and therefore should explain what an airline is like, but also its history. I added the dates to clarify when these assessments were made. Ideally, we would have a full history with more detail and with comparable (over the years) assessments by a few important reliable assessors, but for now, this is what we have, and I don't see any reason to remove it, given how little text (as opposed to lists) the article has. I'm going to restore it on this basis. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:39, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine - Adrian Pingstone 22:25, 14 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ras Makonnen photograph

When you removed the image of Ras Makonnen from the V&A Lafayette web site, why did you not give a source or credit the people who did the work to clean and scan this image? [e-mail] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.133.1.176 (talk) 14:48, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I don't believe I got the photograph from the V&A Lafayette website (I think it was from an Ethiopian one, although I don't remember exactly), although I see now that's it's ultimate origin. Had I known the origin, I would have included it, and will do so now. I'm relatively certain that the image is in public domain in the U.S., now, though, as it was published before 1923 (see here for public domain issues), 27 September 1902 according to the website. I'm not sure how the status of the image would be affected if the image was edited later, though. The website claims copyright, but I'm sure that U.S. law would put the original in public domain. If this is not an original, the copyright status may be different. I'll look into it. Do you know if the photographer James Lafayette himself, or another photographer in the studio, though? The page only says Lafayette ltd. I added the photographer detail and the source page. You can add any other info you think is important as well. Do you have any other concerns? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 20:52, 17 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Patronyms

Hi! I notice you've been involved with Ethiopian and Eritrean articles. We're currently trying to set up a naming convention for Iceland-related articles. One of the issues we have is that most Icelanders have patronyms rather than family names and we like to sort and refer to people by their given name. I understand that you have a similar situation in Ethiopia and Eritrea (and Somalia?). Yet it seems to me that while Eritreans are usually sorted by their given names on Wikipedia, Ethiopians tend to be sorted by their last name (patronym?). Is there a reason for this or do you think it should be different? I think we could maybe cooperate on this. Haukur 08:42, 23 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've also been discussing this with the Malaysians, same issue there: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Malaysia#Naming_conventions Currently Category:Icelandic people is consistently sorted by first name so I'm wondering if articles on people from other cultures with similar naming conventions should be too. Haukur 23:08, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, Ethiopian names are organized like Eritrean ones. See Merhawie's work at Habesha name for the system. If you saw some ordered by their last name, then they are in error. There's a partially complete MoS for Ethiopia-related articles. What type of cooperation were you implying? — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 23:11, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at Category:Ethiopian politicians only about half of them seem to be sorted by first name. Most of Category:Eritrean politicians are sorted by first name (but not all, Petros Solomon, Estifanos Seyoum, Germano Nati and Abraham Kidane are not). Should these all be sorted by first name? As for cooperation I was thinking we could maybe have a common MOS/NC page for people with patronymics. It may be easier for people to accept using first names when it's not just a question of one culture or nation but several. But I also just mean mundane cooperation like - I could for example help sort those categories. I just don't want to make mistakes due to unfamiliarity with Ethiopian/Eritrean names. For example I wonder if Haile Woldense is somehow a different case. Haukur 23:30, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Iyasu the Conqueror Saint

Hi Yom! Weld Blundell (it's one of those British double-barrelled names) is obviously wrong in his translation here; what I am wrestling with is how to correct it in a way that does not leave it open to an accusation of original research, or reversion on other grounds. To wit:

• Adding a link to the original translation (as you did) might be reverted by a well-meaning but uninformed editor who thought it was vandalism. (I remember the struggle I had over educating people about Ethiopian naming practice.)
• Leaving the original text untouched, but a correction in the footnote, could be justified; it is what Weld Blundell wrote. However, I think doing this just makes things unnecessarily complicated for the reader, & implies that he was an incompetent translator. While I have caught some errors in what he wrote, he was a pioneering scholar in Ethiopain history, and if this book doesn't meet the definition of dull, I don't know what would. It's about as exciting as reading a stranger's bank statement: passages like (to paraphrase) "March began on a Tuesday. On the third Emperor Tekle Giyorgis left Gondar. On the 8th he reached Kosogo. One of Gadlu's men killed an elderly monk, and he was so proud that he gave him a new cloak. On the 10th Emperor Tekle Giyorgis went to the church and recited the prayer, "Insert some line from Psalms here" and recited it all of the way through. On the 11th Kenfu went to Gondar." Pages and pages of this; the chronicler must have been keeping notes as he went along, & never went back to rewrite them into a more readable form. The part quoted in Demetros of Ethiopia is actually one of the more readable passages!
• Revising the translation might be defensible, since it could be argued that the original text is printed in the book (the Ge'ez text covers 200 pages), so I decided to try that angle.

I'm not sure I arrived at the best solution, but maybe explaining the problem will help you find a better. BTW, what are the Amharic/Ge'ez forms of "Jesus" & "Joshua"? IIRC, they are the same, & only by accident do they have different forms in English. -- llywrch 16:07, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'll respond in full later (probably in a few days it's been a busy week!), but I can answer your Ge'ez question right now. Joshua and Jesus in Hebrew are thought to have the same origin from a contraction Yehoshu`a-> Yeshu`a ("YHWH saves"), but the Ge'ez forms are distinct. They are not from Hebrew, though but from Greek Ιησους (Iesous) -> Ge'ez Iyäsus (the more common spelling and more accurate guide for pronunciation would be Iyesus), while Ge'ez Joshua is Iyasu (good guide & most common spelling). So in English transliteration, where the umlauts are often dropped, the difference becomes only the final "s," but they are distinct in Ge'ez both in spelling and pronunciation. I noticed Iyasu was confused with Iyasus on some of the king lists a few years back, was it due to this misunderstanding, or did the sources also confuse the two? Iyesus is never a given name in Ethiopia, it is only given as a compound-name, and usually baptismal, unlike Iyasu. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 16:34, 25 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

About the king lists: no, that was my handiwork; I was being mischievious. ("Jesus" is a common male name in Spanish, so no disrespect was intended.) Someone changed those edits back (I think it was Sandeq or it could have been you, I don't remember now), & since my reasons weren't worth being disruptive, I let the matter go. -- llywrch 17:48, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Aksumite Architecture

Hello Yom, I have a question and am asking you based on the solid and substantial contributions you have made to the article on the Aksumite Empire. I noted with some interest in the Arch article that, citing Munro-Hay's book on Aksum Civilization, an Aksumite - or at least Syrian/Aksumite - origin to the horseshoe arch is asserted (which is what I am looking into). I see you added this information and was wondering the degree to which you know how accurate this claim is. I know that there are 5th century antecedents in Syria to the emergence of this architectural curiosity, but have not hitherto encountered an Aksumite attribution, which would, given the ambiguities of its architectural and iconographic significance, be fascinating indeed. Any help or suggestion for further reading you might have would be much appreciated. Thanks! Eusebeus 21:51, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• • Sorry, - Update. I have followed the link to SMH's work online and will work through it there. I am wondering if there is any photographic evidence of the arches in question. Eusebeus 22:49, 26 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't know the Syrian examples were 5th century, actually, the way Munro describes it, it sounded as if they were 4th or late 3rd century. I'm not particularly knowledgeable on ancient architecture, but I can provide you the full citation of the text so that you can analyze it for yourself.

An unexpected find was the Tomb of the Brick Arches. The tomb itself lay beneath a rough-stone and mud-mortared superstructure, most of which has now disappeared, and whose original form cannot be reconstructed. Between two parallel walls a staircase roofed with rough granite slabs descended until the tomb's entrance was reached. The first sign of anything unusual was the discovery of a granite lintel, and then, underneath it, the upper part of an arch of baked bricks. As the excavations progressed, it became apparent that this was a horse-shoe shaped arch, forming about three-quarters of a perfect circle, which rested at each side on slate-like stones forming plinths supported by the usual Aksumite rough stone and mud-mortared walls. The entrance led to an antechamber, from which two further horse-shoe shaped arches led into the tomb-chambers proper. All had been blocked with stones, and all had been broken open in ancient times when the tomb was partially robbed.

Illustration 27. The Tomb of the Brick Arches. View from inside the vestibule, looking through the horseshoe arch towards the staircase. Photo BIEA.

The entrance-arch had an internal measurement of 1.3 m across the widest point, and the bricks were square. One of the internal arches resembled this, but the second was rather different, with oblong bricks arranged so that the long and short sides followed each other alternately. The square bricks measured 27 × 28 × 7 cm.

The contents of the tomb have been tentatively dated by various methods to the early/mid fourth century AD. To find horse-shoe shaped baked brick arches of this early date in Ethiopia was very surprising, and of great interest for the history of architecture. Horse-shoe shaped arches are known from an earlier period in India, a country with which Aksum had vigorous trading relations from probably the first century AD, but these arches were carved from the rock and not built. More or less contemporary built examples are reported from Syria, and so the Ethiopian examples have a pedigree as old as any others, at least for the time being (Munro-Hay, Rassegna di Studi Etiopici, forthcoming).

Some distance away was found the so-called Brick Vaulted Structure, presumed to be a tomb of the same date as the Tomb of the Brick Arches, since it was also situated in the main necropolis and similarly employed brick horse-shoe shaped arches. But it also included relieving arches and lintels, and the rooms were barrel-vaulted with brick. These bricks were mortared together, and it is evident that the Aksumites knew the use of mortar (nb. de Almeida's statement above, Ch. 5: 3), but rarely felt the need to employ it, preferring their drystone walling with simple mud-bonding.

The Brick Vaulted Structure first appeared during the excavations (Munro-Hay 1989) as a stone wall of Aksumite style, built parallel to the courtyard in front of the Tomb of the False Door to the west. In due course, a number of bricks began to appear, soon proving to be the remains of collapsed brick vaults. These consisted of double rows of square baked bricks forming radial barrel vaults resting on string-courses of slate-like stone on top of the usual Aksumite stone and mud-mortared walls. The chambers covered by the vaulting seem to have been approximately 1 × 2 m in size, and one retained traces of the stone-paved floor of a superstructure over the barrel vaulting. The height of the vaulted rooms was about 4 m, and a tentative reconstruction seems to indicate that they flanked a central passage.

The vaults themselves were not horse-shoe shaped. But the entrance to one of the vaults (the only entrance found) was formed by a horse-shoe shaped arch, also 1.3 m wide across the centre, sealed with a stone blocking, and surmounted by a granite relieving lintel above which the bricks of the vault rose. This revealed a new and more complex combination of architectural features, which, as far as our present knowledge goes, is entirely unique. It seems as if the structure originally had a number of these vaulted rooms opening off a central corridor, but the complete plan has not yet been completely recovered.

Illustration 28. Drawing of the granite entrance doorway to the tomb called the `Mausoleum'. Drawing BIEA.

A further tomb, probably the largest yet known at Aksum, was entered by a monumental granite doorway in typical Aksumite style, with carved granite square-headed beam ends protruding at the corners. This tomb was dubbed the `Mausoleum', as a testimony to its size and elaborate construction, both totally unexpected by the excavators. Its plan consists of a long corridor behind the stone doorway, also entered from above by three shafts, and flanked by ten rooms, five on each side. It has not yet been cleared, only planned by crawling through the narrow gap left between the mud fill and the roof. The tomb is about 15 m square and lies to the west of the foot of the largest stele. The entrance to another tomb was found on the east side of the stele with a simpler doorway of rough stone topped by a granite lintel. Both of these tombs opened onto a courtyard at the foot of the stele, which must have been filled in before the collapse of the stele. The `Mausoleum' was built largely of rough stone walling roofed with granite blocks, and was covered with huge quantities of dry stone fill. It may belong to the person for whom the giant stele was raised. At the west end of its central corridor can be seen the top of another brick arch, leading into a passage not yet entered; but whether it was of the horse-shoe type is as yet unknown, as it was never cleared. It is possible that the arch gives access to further chambers, but it seems unlikely that there will be any connection with the Brick Vaulted Structure to the west, since over 20 metres lie between them.

By the time this arch was found it was scarcely a notable discovery (see above). But earlier in the same season (1974), the very appearance of baked brick in Aksumite Ethiopian architecture would have been remarkable, since it had been previously noted only in a few special circumstances (Anfray 1974), and an arch in the same material was completely unheard of. It is certain that our ideas about the architectural limitations of the ancient Aksumites will require yet more revision when excavations can be resumed.

These baked brick features, horseshoe shaped arches and vaults, in Aksumite buildings of the fourth century AD, may mean that our ideas about the routes of dissemination of architectural ideas in Africa, the Near East, and Spain (where the horse-shoe arch was later familiar) also need some revision. Wherever the style originated, it was certainly not expected to turn up in Aksumite Ethiopia. Without being able to assert the idea too strongly until we have more evidence, there may even be a case for proposing the brick horse-shoe arch as another Aksumite innovation, perhaps based on ideas which arrived through the trade-routes with India.

You can a picture here: http://www.traveladventures.org/continents/africa/axum12.shtml

^^I posted the above before you edited your comment, but apparently it didn't go through. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:20, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Thanks Yom, I'll digest all that and keep you updated. Eusebeus 02:55, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

2007 ogaden conflict

[1] I really cannot see the word "vandalism" you told me. --TheFEARgod (Ч) 22:55, 28 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

ahhh :) you're right. I never knew that. I thought rvv stands for "reverting reversion" or "double-revert" or something like that... never mind.. (sorry for the inconvenience) --TheFEARgod (Ч) 13:16, 29 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Are you talking about me?

Using a template? Yes, LA2 suggested the idea behind Template:Ref Ethiopia. I haven't advertised it's existence because I'm still testing it -- I've encountered a few glitches with it -- but I think this will simplify the bibliographical style & make maintaining these sources much simpler. Or was your commment about something else? -- llywrch 03:04, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but not about that. I saw that page and was wondering how it was supposed to work, actually. What's the general idea? The comment you're talking about is referring to you probably using Wuchale as a template (i.e. by cutting & pasting and then replacing the names and figures) for town articles. Although, IIRC, you used a bot to generate all those pages from the CSA, at least at first, right? Edit: Oh, okay. I see how it'll be used. I guess it's useful for keeping uniform citation styles and for statistical purposes. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:26, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Kebede not being Liya Kebede's surname

About this change to Liya Kebede. If Kebede is her father's last name , u r saying she married a man with the same surname? Liya and her husb Kassy both have dad's with the name 1st Kebede? . . . . .Do u have a source 4 this?

Also, it IS her surname is this sense as this is US wiki. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.88.220.141 (talk) 23:32, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I assume so, since no "maiden" name is given, and Kebede is a common name given to men. This isn't "US" wiki, but the English Wikipedia, meaning that it is an encyclopedia that's written in English. It doesn't mean that it is Anglo-centric or English-speaking-centric by design, although it is de facto, since most of the articles will be on subjects adequately covered in English, the language most accessible to its editors. If she did change her name, though, then I agree it's a surname and can be ordered Last name, First, instead of the "First name, Last name" order used by countries using patronymics. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 23:50, 1 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

I'm very interested in Ethiopian history and culture. Do have MSN or yahoo messenger? I'd like to be friends and chat sometime. Please leave a message if you're interested. Josh 03:42, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My MSN: [e-mail]

My Yahoo ID: [e-mail]

My email address: [e-mail] Josh 05:55, 7 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Year of Five Emperors

(Which means that Ethiopia in 1788/1789 was one better than the Roman Empire in AD 69. ;-)

The names I listed in Tekle Giyorgis I of Ethiopia were the ones in Wallis Budge's History of Ethiopia; he was deposed (so to speak) for Iyasu, & when he managed to remove Iyasu from the throne, according to Wallis Budge there were three different usurpers supported by Ras Ali's rivals. However, as I worked my way through Weld-Blundell's translation Royal Chronicle of Abyssinia, my respect for Wallis Budge has plummetted: he often cites a passage from the Chronicle for the wrong event, so it may be that there weren't five recognized Emperors at one time in Ethiopia.

I've finally worked my way for the first time through this book (it's going to require many re-readings before I can use it for more than the occasional event), & it looks like I'll be re-writing much of this article. Despite Nathaniel Pearce's estimate of the man, I have to respect a guy who persistently fought for 30+ years to be Emperor not only in name but deed. (For example, there are at least two passages in Weld-Blundell's translation where Tekle Giyorgis is quoted as saying he didn't want to be ruler if he was to be only a figurehead.) He deserves better than what the account in the more common histories. -- llywrch 20:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yemrehanna Krestos

I just visited Yemrehanna Krestos, and I would say that the 'whitewashed exterior' might not be accurate. The stone parts between the wood were covered with plaster, but I could not tell whether it was 'whitewashed' - also if it were whitewashed it is a question of whether this is original the building, or done later. Lacking archaeological evidence, one must be a bit more circumspect. What were your observations? Also to mention the interior whitewashing in the same sentence is misleading since Yemrehanna Krestos is most certainly not whitewashed. I will try to rephrase this in a day or so.Brosi (talk) 22:13, 21 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't been to Yemrehanna Krestos, I thought the white was from whitewashing, as in some other churches. The "interior" reference was to churches in general, though, not to Yemrehanna Krestos in particular. Obviously it's difficult to know how old whitewashing is, since it must be done continually, but IIRC it is an element of Aksumite architecture. I'll look for references, though. There are other white-washed churches that can be used as an example instead, though, like Debre Selam Mikael. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:14, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

About the capital of Illubabor province

I was updating Gore, Ethiopia at the same time I was updating Metu, & was surprised to find each article on the respective town makes this claim! At the moment I don't have access to a source that would resolve this conflict, so I added the caveat. If you can resolve this contradiction, I'd be quite happy! -- llywrch (talk) 17:40, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently it was changed from Gore to Metu in 1978. The source? None other than yourself (one year ago)! See this edit. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 22:28, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, er, with all of this data I've been wrestling, I guess I forgot. -- llywrch (talk) 22:44, 28 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Por favor

When you have a moment, Yom, would you check my parsing of Lemma Tesefa Kesime's name in Debre Zeyit? I'm not sure whether he's Lemma, son of Tesefa Kesime -- or Lemma Tesefa, son of Kesime. Much thanks. -- llywrch (talk) 21:55, 7 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hmmm, I'm not sure if Tesefa is a nickname or something or if it's part of his father's name. Lemma is certainly is first name (and not Lemma Tesefa, the latter while being an Amharic word, is not used as a name), but I don't know if Tesefa is his father and Kesime his grandfather, or if his father's name is Tesefa Kesime (assuming Tesefa is a word in Oromo). BTW, I'm not sure the Nordic Africa Institute is right on the ceremony held there only having happened in the past. I think they are talking about this ceremony. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 02:09, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I left out all mention of that ceremony because I wasn't clear on its importance to the article. I'll ponder your concerns about the "ceremony" though, since I see all of those red links & am thinking about how to fix them. Any discussion of a lake (or other geographical object) needs to include something about its cultural relevance. Thanks for your opinion; I'll try to remember this problem as I continue my research. -- llywrch (talk) 23:43, 8 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wolaytta vs. Welayta language

Hi Yom,

Over the past few days, and probably some time in the future, I have been doing some cleaning up on Ethiopian languages. I just noticed that I was operating in a shoot-first-ask-questions-later mode, and this affected one of your previous edits. One of my goals is to standardize the entries on languages so that they are listed under the name given in the Ethnologue (http://www.ethnologue.com), which is the authority on language names and classification. My rationale is that someone might look up a language name there, type it into Wikipedia, and get to the correct page right away. This is what I did with the Wolaytta language, which is called just that in the Ethnologue. I did not see any discussion on the page and so went ahead, only later noting that last year you have been doing just the reverse move. I tried to find something on transliteration on the Project:Ethiopia page, but don't see anythingh there. So maybe we should discuss things again. I realize that things become a little bit more messy when an ethnic group or a kingdom is called Welayta and the language Wolaytta, and I'm not bold enough to change the name throughout. On the other hand, there is a standard for transcribing language names, and no standard whatsoever for any other Ethiopian names. And standards make life easy for everyone. What do you think? Landroving Linguist (talk) 13:49, 21 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Double t isn't the way to go, IMO. It's difficult to decide whether to use "o" or "e," though ("y" is preferable to "i" as well as more common). I wouldn't use Ethnologue as a standard, though. It's useful when we don't have other sources, but not always the best on spelling. Take its preference of Tigrigna over the ubiquitous Tigrinya, for example (or Geez over Ge'ez, or Hadiyya over Hadiya, although this case might actually be a difference in pronounciation). We can always have as many redirects as we want so we should be concerned with both accuracy and commonness. The two most common spellings I've encountered are Wolaita and Welayta. The e/o can go either way, but the latter is more accurate with the "y," since it represents IPA /j/ and not a diphthong. There's a transliteration page here, with significant discussion, but it's focused mainly on transliteration of fidel, and may not be as useful for issues like this one, where the fidel spelling and Amharic pronunciation might not be as accurate as the English one. Is the "t" in Welayta geminated in the Welayta/Wolayta language? If so, we can note it on the page and offer it as a variant, but keep the article at either Wolaita or Welayta, or even Wolayta, which seems to get even more hits than the rest (4,880, 5,980, and 6,760 google hits, respectively; Wolaytta only gets 2,350). Any of those three are fine to me. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 00:12, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the /t/ is indeed geminated. I could not find any discussion on geminations here, so I'd like to hear some more clarification why "double t isn't the way to go." I'm fine with naming the ethnic group any other way, but the language should be called they way it is called elsewhere. The Ethnologue does not make a claim to be consistent in spelling language names. I think the way names are spelled there only reflects the published literature. The following is the list of publicly available works written on Wolaytta until 1991, taken from the Linguistic Bibliography of the Non-semitic languages of Ethiopia, by Pete Unseth, published by Michigan State University in 1991): (Unseth calls the language Wolaytta in this work)

Abebe Mehretu. 1982. The role of Suprasegmentals in Wolaytta. AAU BA thesis.

Adams, Bruce. 1984. A tagmemic analysis of the Wolaitta language. University of London Ph.D. thesis.

Fetlework Tsigie. 1984. A contrastive analysis of Wolayitta and Amharic segmental phonemes. AAU BA thesis.

Samuel Urago. 1983. Nominalization patterns in Wolayta. AAU BA thesis.

Senait Mulugeta. 1984. Pronouns in Wolayitta. AAU BA thesis.

Yitbarek Ejigu. 1970. The Phonology of Wolayta, a generative approach. AAU MA thesis.

Disregaring all other variation in the name, except for Samuel and Yitbarek all of these sources use the double t for the language. Other sources (including the works of Bender) are using variations of Welamo or Walamo. Anyway, my point is that most linguists are using the double t when they write about this language. Of course I could be happy with a redirect, but first I'd like to hear more about your reasons. By the way, if you google Wolaytta language and Welayta language, the picture does not get so clear-cut anymore, which underlines my point: for the language name (as opposed to the ethnic name) Wolaytta seems to be the correct spelling. By another way, I would also stick to Hadiyya, for the same reasons. Landroving Linguist (talk) 09:12, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FWIW, Peter Unseth has an account on Wikipedia, & made several contributions as recently as today. (He also emailled me about his preferred spelling for (Tippi.) Perhaps you would like to invite him to join this discussion. -- llywrch (talk) 00:26, 25 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good Idea. I have invited him now. Landroving Linguist (talk) 07:46, 3 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Dengel Ber

This came from Buckingham & Huntingford's S.R.E. (details in the article cited). I guessed that the language was Amharic -- B & H didn't say, although their practice is to state the language in this case if it wasn't. "Canna" is their word -- which I had, until your note, no idea what is meant. (I just looked at the Wikipedia article on the word, & it confused further.) I guess this may be a case where the meaning of the placename needs a longer explanation. -- llywrch (talk) 01:15, 24 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

About eritrea Official languages

Eritreans official language is arabic and tigrinya. Yom, i don`t even think you are eritrean. All your information is nonesense. Most eritreans speak tigrinya and arabic. If you know ancient history, the tigrinya people came from yemen and are semitic people, their are a lot arab people in eritrea, most are in red sea coast, like massawa, dahlak islands, asab..., i am not talking about the afars (who are cushtic). Go to www.arabbay.com to see eritrea is in arab world. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.4.188.153 (talk) 07:31, 29 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Beshitta or Bashilo?

Hi Yom! Belated happy New Year. As I've researching more about Ethiopia, I've grown more convinced that I picked the wrong name for this river -- it should have been Bashilo, or something similar with an l & not a t. About the only source that I've encountered that uses this form is a map of Ethiopia I've found which is unreliable about so many other names; every other book or article uses a form of the name with an l. What do you think? -- llywrch (talk) 01:55, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Go with those, then. I thought that name a bit odd, since Beshita (በሽታ) means "disease" or "sickness" in Amharic, not exactly an attractive name for such an important river. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 01:56, 20 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So does "Bashilo" have a meaning? I'd like to keep an etymology of the name in the article on the river. -- llywrch (talk) 06:55, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Not that I know of. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 02:23, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

National Scout Association of Eritrea

Hello! Can you please help translate the name of this organization into Tigrinya? Thank you! Chris (クリス) (talk) 00:58, 21 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but I don't really know much Tigrinya. I can tell you "national" is "Hagerawi" (ሃገራዊ), though (and "of Eritrea" would be "nay Ertra/ናይ ኤርትራ"). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 02:23, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Medieval Ethiopia

Dear Yom, it's great I could finally find a map of the Ethiopian medieval provinces, thank You very much. There is one question I have - in chronicles of for example Zara Yacob Tigre province is mentioned. As far as I understand when we talk about Medieval Ethiopia it is the same as Tigray. I know that today these are two different people - Tigray live in Ethiopia and Eritrea as well, they are mainly christian, Axum was situated in their territory, and Tigre live in northern Eritrea, and are mainly muslim. The question is: why these names are so familiar? When they divided, or they are not connected at all? Do the two languages differ a lot? Concerning Medieval times, what is more correct to say - Tigre or Tigray? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.41.24.231 (talk) 11:23, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dispute at Ethiopia

Hi Yom, የት ጠፋህ? As soon as you get a chance, could you take a look at the controversial changes to the introduction section of Ethiopia, and the subsequent talkpage discussion between myself and the editor who made them? Thanks! Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 20:25, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

E3b versus E1b1b

Over the last few years the scientific community has tracked several updates to the corresponding naming schemes in, for example, haplogroup I and haplogroup R. I have no doubt it will similarly adopt these latest changes for E3b (however admittedly unwieldy the new namings may be).

Two of the key authors of the new paper, Underwood and Hammer, were leading figures in the creation of the naming scheme to start with; and indeed, in the actual uncovery of the y-dna haplogroup family tree itself. Also note that FTDNA, the largest testing company for public DNA, has said it will adopt the new nomenclature. So I do think this renaming will stick, and should as of now be regarded as the current naming for this group.

However, if you'd like to ask for other opinions, and discuss this further, you might like to raise it on the project talk page at WT:HGH.

All best, Jheald (talk) 08:21, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Adal Sultanate

Hi Yom! I know you haven't been around Wikipedia much lately, but if you have a moment I'd appreciate it if you would contribute your opinion to a dispute at Adal Sultanate: I seem be to in an edit war with another editor who thinks the random comment of an unnamed BBC journalist outweighs the researches of academic specialists. Thanks, & hope all is well with you. -- llywrch (talk) 06:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Are blacks more Intelligent?

Blacks smarter: http://www.africaresource.com/content/view/528/236/

The benefits of Melanin: http://www.africaresource.com/content/view/479/236/

Europeans related to Neanderthals: http://www.africaresource.com/content/view/531/236/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.68.179.142 (talk) 17:32, 16 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipédia en amharique

Bonjour, je me demandais si tu contribuais déjà à la version de Wikipédia en amharique ? Elle a besoin de contributeurs ! Cordialement, Baronnet (talk) 09:56, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

....Somethin i read in Herodotus sparked my curiosity: That being, when he wrote about Cambyses attempted march on Ethiopia, that, when describing the Ethiopians, he mentioned that they were the "most beautiful people on Earth. What I found interesting, is that Herodotus, a Greek, like many Greeks of his time, considered anyone not Hellenistic to be a "barbarian", the same way the Romans did centuries later. He reference to the Ethiopians made me want to research more on the Ancient Ethiopians. Any accurate and non POV books you can suggest? thanks Nathraq (talk) 17:55, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Books on ancient Ethiopians or the Ethiopians that Herodotus was speaking about? Because Greek "Aithiopia" referred to Africa in general and the Kingdom of Kush in specific. It was only during the Christian era that its specific location moved further east to first the Horn of Africa in general and then Ethiopia in particular through the adoption of that term in the 4th century. For ancient Ethiopia (and not Kush), Stuart Munro-Hay's Aksum: An African Civilization of Late Antiquity is probably the most comprehensive book on the subject. This is on Aksum and focuses on the 1st-7th centuries AD, though. There are no definitive histories on earlier Ethiopian history. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 04:07, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

In a few of the books in Herodotus' Histories, he does specifically mention the name Ethiopia, and does not mention Kush. This got me going on a crusade now to learn all about the ancient history of the Ethiopians. peace Nathraq (talk) 20:06, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Awraja

Hi, do we have an article on the administrative division awraja? Badagnani (talk) 02:33, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Welaita Zone

Hi, Welayta people states that there is a Welaita Zone but we don't have any such article (nor about the old Welaita awraja). Can we get articles on these? Badagnani (talk) 02:36, 7 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'd ask Llywrch. I'm pretty busy and he's the one who's been making all the administrative division articles. He probably has the zone article underway, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's going to tackle former divisions once he finishes the current ones. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:57, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Aksumite currency

There are many red links for images in Aksumite currency. I suggest to replace them with links to external images using {{externalimage}}:

Greetings Wandalstouring (talk) 07:30, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Those redlinks used to be images of coins, but they were deleted from Wikicommons on the grounds that a coin was a 3D object, so a photograph of one was copyrightable. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:56, 14 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Habesha jazz

Yom, how long has it been since we last had an email exchange. Indet new yehalew. Everything is good with me. Anyways, I wanted to ask if you can assist me in writing about Ethiopian jazz singers. i think ethiopian jazz is not known well enough, since it is unique and is separate from "African American". I will start off by writing an article on Girma Beyene, a great singer. Check out his song: http://www.addiszefen.com/ (song #348). All the best ethiopian afficaianado..

Dehna negn. How funny, Enken yelelebesh by Girma Beyene is actually my favorite Ethiojazz song. I'm afraid I can't help you much on writing the articles, though. I don't know much about the period and I don't have any resources to cite from. Ask Badagnani for help, though. He knows about Ethiopian music and might be able to help you out. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 03:51, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Minyeshu

Hello, I have been writing the Dutch article on the singer/dancer Minyeshu Kifle Tedla. Would you be able to write her name in Amharic letters? Thank you, LeRoc (talk) 21:09, 7 August 2008 (UTC)

Thank you, her name in Amharic script has been added to the Dutch article. Thank you for your help also, but if the English Wikipedia does not want the article, I won't bother to defend it. Greetings, LeRoc (talk) 19:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You're welcome. Driss actually put the correct spelling, however, as put on her website. The "ye" refers to the letter ይ ("yi") and not actually የ "ye," so I've changed it. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 20:53, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Imam Ahmad Gragn discussion

Thanks for contributing to the discussion about possible original research concerning this article. I don't know why his ethnicity has suddenly become a bone of contention -- nor how I have become a POV-pusher. (Despite repeatedly asking that exact question.) -- llywrch (talk) 01:46, 12 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

A Barnstar for your work on the Second Italo-Ethiopian War

		The Original Barnstar
		Hey! I've noticed your substantial expansion of the Second Italo-Ethiopian War article, as well as on its battles, and I just wanted to give you a barnstar in appreciation. There aren't many with the knowledge or access to the sources to expand these articles so substantially, so it's great to see someone like you come along and improve them. Keep on doing what you're doing, there's plenty who appreciate it. ;) — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 02:22, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Mkpumphrey (talk) 02:38, 16 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy deletion of Image:BaleLobelias.jpg

A tag has been placed on Image:BaleLobelias.jpg requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section I3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is an image licensed as "for non-commercial use only," "non-derivative use" or "used with permission," it has not been shown to comply with the limited standards for the use of non-free content. [2], and it was either uploaded on or after 2005-05-19, or is not used in any articles. If you agree with the deletion, there is no need to do anything. If, however, you believe that this image may be retained on Wikipedia under one of the permitted conditions then:

• state clearly the source of the image. If it has been copied from elsewhere on the web you should provide links to: the image itself, the page which uses it and the page which contains the license conditions.
• add the relevant copyright tag.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on [[ Talk:Image:BaleLobelias.jpg|the talk page]] explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. Kelly ^hi! 14:51, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

E1b1b article

I notice you've edited this article before, so you might be interested to know that it has lately seen some action again, starting with edits to include information about the new Henn article last week. Editing is now more than a bit stuck, and the talk page could seriously do with a few more points of view. We have an unhealthy two person debate which is getting no where. I've tried to make it easy for third parties to come in a make comments by making some suggestions for edits on the talk page.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 14:48, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You ask for a definition of what the dispute about, and actually it is not that easy to define. In my opinion it is about me arrogantly making edits without prior permission, but of course that is not Causteau's account. He says that I was putting in un-sourced material. His key example is that I described the newly discovered clade in Henn 2008 as E-M293, and I have been strongly opposed to his edits where he has changed this to E3b1f, on the basis that this is exactly what Henn calls it. However Henn is clearly just using slightly out of date information wherein E3b1 = E1b1b in the wikipedia article and where the f sub-clade does NOT equal the f sub-clade which has recently already been published and widely acknowledged, defined by P72. Indeed, this is so new that the two clades might even be equivalent or one might be within the other, which means, in my opinion that we MUST use the mutation based name even if the author did not use it. Causteau says this would be synthesis and original work! This is just a key example mind you.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 16:13, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I just tried to edit the discussion page and found that you must have been editing the same time. When my change finally finished uploading your edit was gone. I am trying to recover both!--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 16:20, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Definitely something strange. If you try to edit the page, you are still there. Do you see your edit still?--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 16:24, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You didn't close your <ref> tags. I'll fix it. Actually, I think you forgot to include the refs altogether (and put "<ref>" as a placeholder, so I replaced them with "[REF]." — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 16:37, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks! You are right that they are just place holders. This is because - as you see - I am not good at using them!--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 16:57, 25 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Please come back and keep commenting on this article. Two people is an unhealthy situation, and as soon as more people stopped commenting things got messy very quickly.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 17:50, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

about Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi article

hi Yom, i realize that you are a key contributor to horn of African articles like about Ethiopia and Somalia. I recently added and expanded a section inside the Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi article with diverse sources to illustrate the vital information about Ottoman Empire vs Portugal proxy wars during the reign of Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi. This proxy war is perhaps one of the most significant historical information in the area since it shaped up the result of the wars waged by Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi and the Ethiopian emperors. It also shaped up the hatred and bitterness between the two countries and in some sense, the two religions. So i believe the section is vital and i therefore hope that the section inside Ahmad's article i titled "Arab and Ottoman assistance" will not be deleted once again. The section has various and diverse sources however a username by Causteau has been repeatedly deleting it. I would like for you to moderate it and hopefully revert or restore the important section that was deleted. Thank you Jack248 7 October 2008 (UTC)

hi! i am half amhara and half oromo, (my dad comes from walaga and my mum comes from addis ababa) i LOVE injera espeially with doro wet and shuro. however, there are not many places wer u can get these foods in england. i occassionally go to 'Shabele', oh and, 'I REP ETHIOPIA!!!' BRAP BRAP!!

Sarah Temesgen from england —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.9.187.129 (talk) 16:25, 3 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gish Abay (Felege Ghion)

Salem Yom,

I would like to write about Gish Abay for WikiProject Beta Israel, but I can't find how Gish Abay and Felege Ghion are written in Ge'ez, so I'm not sure about their proper transliteration to Hebrew (we generally follow this transliteration table). Could you please assist?

Best regards, ליאור (talk) 17:12, 25 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Shukran jazilan! I'm still pondering whether to transliterate as פלג גיֹן or as פלגה גיוֹן. If you were to transliterate it to Arabic, will you write فلـﭻ ﭼـيـن‎ or فلـﭼـه ﭼـيون ?

I have two more questions when you find the time:

1. How is Tiya written in Ge'ez? We googled several options but got no results.
2. Is there a village named Chilga anywhere in southern Ethiopia? Esti Mamo told me in person that Chilga is in southern Ethiopia, while both Yechila and Chilga aren't situated at the southern parts of present-day Ethiopia.

Many thanks, ליאור (talk) 15:11, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In Arabic, I would use فلـﭻ ﭼـيـن‎ or فلـﭻ ﭼـيون. The ta-marbutah can be used to show the last vowel if you like, but there is no such letter in Ge'ez or related languages in Ethiopia. Rather it's a consonant like -t/-it (Ethiopian = Ityop'yawi, or Ityop'yawit for a woman; life is Hiywet/ሕይወት, whereas in Arabic it's 7ayyah/حياة). Tiya is ቲያ, I believe, though I haven't heard it spoken by an Ethiopian, I've seen no indication the "t" is an ejective, so it's a straightforward transliteration.

As for Ch'ilga, it's in NW Ethiopia. I don't know of any Chilga in Southern Ethiopia. I would bet money she's talking about the one near Gonder, as there were Beta Israel and Kemant around there, and it's on the historic trading route to Sudan (so those going to Israel would likely pass through it). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 13:58, 26 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Kayla

Salem Yom,

Thanks again for your assistance! I hope to write about Felege Ghion over the next week. The Hebrew word Peleg (פֶּלֶג) means brook or rivulet (see [3]). That's Plagim (פּלגים) in plural form and Pilgey (פּלגי) in plural construct state. "Pilgey Ghihon" (פִּלְגי גיחון) would literally mean "the brooks of Gihon" and I wonder whether it carries any similar meaning in Ge'ez. Anyways, by your advice I'll name the article פלג גיון (the equivalent of فلـﭻ ﭼـيون).

I wrote the Kayla article based on Hebrew sources written by Farangis. Could you please correct it according to Amhara sources? Thanks, ליאור (talk) 05:58, 7 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

attinkugn

Salem salem,

Could you kindly say how attinkugn is spelled in Ge'ez? Where is it pronounced attinkugn and where attenkugn? And how is it pronounced in Tigrinya? We think it might derive from "אל תנגעוּני", which means "don't touch me!" referring to second person plural. That's ال تنـﭼعونت in Arabic transliteration. Thanks again, ליאור (talk) 23:47, 18 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's Amharic, not Tigrinya. I don't have Ge'ez font installed on this computer, but this should be the right spelling: አትንኩኝ (āttinkūñ). It indeed means "don't touch me!" and derives from the verb to touch "menkat" (መንካት). — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 21:21, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Added with credit, thanks a lot! ליאור (talk) 23:49, 5 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Trade routes of the Phoenicians

Hallo, Yom, do you have no indications, that they had trade posts in the northern aegean too, f.e. on the island of Thasos? --Gerdl (talk) 08:48, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

e3b

Hello, I have resuscitated the debate on whether e3b should be considered as Sub-Saharan African admixture on the page Sub-Saharan DNA admixture in Europe. I noticed that you had previously been in a dispute over the same issue. There is a discussion on the talk page and your contributions would be welcome. Wapondaponda (talk) 14:37, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: User:Wapondaponda has been blocked as a disruptive sockpuppet. However as an editor of the E1b1b article in the past, your presence would be welcome, because his blocking has occasioned some aggressive editing.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 19:34, 23 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks!--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 05:15, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You've been reverted by the reverter.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 18:45, 24 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Any third party would be really helpful. Can you comment on the talkpage discussion?--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 20:45, 25 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Can I at least ask for your "vote" on this very specific subject? Please note that Causteau is increasingly trying to pretend he is a consensus and that no other Wikipedians agree with me. I understand why no one wants to edit on this article, but...--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 11:45, 27 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Yom -- I saw your note several hours after you left it (I have frustratingly little time on the weekends for Wikipedia), & for the moment the dispute seems to have died down. Unfortunately, I'm not certain that I'd be perceived as a "moderating influence" due to my previous interaction with Causteau. But let me see what I can do. -- llywrch (talk) 05:42, 28 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Yom, I have attempted compromises on this issue and also on the Sub-Saharan admixture article where I know you've had issues. The compromise seems to have stuck on E1b1b, with Causteau having apparently taken a step back and seen that there was a compromise being made which covered his concerns, but not on Sub-Saharan. I'd welcome comments about what you think. Hopefully I am not making compromises which go so far that they are unacceptable to anyone else. Disruptions from the sock puppet person with many names, and User:SOPHIAN are currently making things difficult to resolve. Causteau is not doing most of the reverts, and I am not sure whether he agrees with them or not.--Andrew Lancaster (talk) 14:16, 2 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Gunther L. Dierich

Hello Yom:

Could you please send me a copy of the "Soldier's Song" of Amde Tzion? I have been looking for it all over the internet and in the libraries and I could not find it.

Thanks.

email address is: [e-mail] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.117.22.7 (talk) 00:46, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Are you the Yom in Civfanatic Center?

This is plarq from CFC. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Plarq (talk • contribs) 03:06, 22 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Did Menelik II sell present Eritrea to Italians?

Hello there Yom (melkam enkutatash. I've got a question on my mind that has been puzzling me for quite a bit now. From what I heard Menelik II gave the present day region of Eritrea to the Italians and is quoted as saying that the Tigre people (meaning the Tigrinya of Eritrea)are not Ethiopians. This truly lays evidence to the fact that Eritreans have never been considered Ethiopians and the fact that the true reason for the confederation later was for the resources. Can you elaborate on this please? Cluckbang

Re: Aberra Molla

Hi Yom -- I know you aren't very active on Wikipedia any more, but if you have the time would you look at this article & the discussion to delete this article? We need someone who is proficient in Amharic to look at the Google hits to determine whether he is notable, or just some kook who is looking for publicity with a Wikipedia article. -- llywrch (talk) 16:38, 29 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Monumentum Adulitanum & beta israel

this inscription refer to the people southern to the tekezé river, this is also the area of the ayud (the beta israel ancestors) particular the semien mountains. the inscription refer to the "semien people" - how this population related to the ayud of lake tana who appear in the reign of Amda Seyon I? quote:

"The Aua and Singabene and Aggabe and Tiamaa and Athagaous and Kalaa and the Samene people who live beyond the Nile in inaccessible mountains covered with snow where tempests and cold are continuous and the snow so deep that a man sinks up to the knees, I reduced to submission after having crossed the river then the Lasine, and Zaa and Gabala, who inhabit very steep mountains where hot springs rise and flow, and the Atalmo and the Beja and all the people who erect their tents with them." Aksum: A Civilization of Late Antiquity, chapter 11-16.

Cosmas Indicopleustes (Christian Topography, Book II) calld them "Semênoi" not "Samene" like dr. Munro-Hay. the meaning of this name "Samene" in amharic is "north" (also in ge'ez & tigrinya?) like in the other semitic languages (like hebrew, Aramaic), why this aksumit king calld a pepole north, did the come from this direction?

sorry about my english, i'm an hebrew spoker. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.181.121.243 (talk) 07:56, 10 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You are now a Reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, is currently undergoing a two-month trial scheduled to end 15 August 2010.

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January 2011

Welcome back! It's been a while. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

አዎ, good to see you here again! አማርኛ ውክፔዲያም አሁን ከፍ ከፍ እያለ እዚያም ብቅ ይበሉ! Til Eulenspiegel (talk) 15:41, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

texting

ha girl why you don't text me no more i been tring to text you for the last couple of days. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daizakeith (talk • contribs) 20:12, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tigrinya

Hello Yom,

You don't know me - I just stumbled upon your user page (I was looking for users who spoke Tigrinya). I'm looking for someone who might be able to roughly translate 2 youtube clips and verify the translation of one sound recording. I think the language is Tigrinya - but I'm not even sure about that. It's about the eruption of the Nabro volcano (affecting both Eritrea and Ethiopia).

There are links on the talk page here to two snippets of Eri.Tv news about the eruption, and also a link to an article (which has a clear agenda against the incumbent eritrean president) - that article has a sound clip in the Tigrinya language - and it also reports what was said in english text, but I'd like someone who understands the language but with no obvious bias to say if it is accurate - and if anything has been missed out. Could that be you ? EdwardLane (talk) 17:58, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

sidama people

you tagged it in 2007. let's revisit neutrality for that article, what do you say? skakEL 17:53, 10 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

i am not sure what yom is but i like potatoes — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.103.221.45 (talk) 23:15, 21 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

File:YomImpersonator.png listed for deletion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:YomImpersonator.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Calliopejen1 (talk) 00:54, 15 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Al Akhdam

Hey Yom, I think it would be great if we could add more info on the history of the Al Akhdam, who are a people that attest to Aksumite presence in South Arabia, when they occupied the Yemenite Kingdoms. What is your personal opinion on these people? Are they merely descendants of slaves from the Persian empire, Arabian empires later on or could they actually be exactly the same genetically to East Africans/Horn of Africa? I have a hard time believing it due to their major differences to how Horn of Africans look.

Thanks

A barnstar for you!

	The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
	Well done brother Cluckbang (talk) 01:11, 13 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Ethiopia

WikiProject Ethiopia has gone into major disrepair. It seems you have abandoned this project. With no objection, I will be taking it on. አቤል ዳዊት (talk) 18:38, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:38, 23 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Contests

User:Dr. Blofeld has created Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/Contests. The idea is to run a series of contests/editathons focusing on each region of Africa. He has spoken to Wikimedia about it and $1000-1500 is possible for prize money. As someone who has previously expressed interest in African topics, would you be interested in contributing to one or assisting draw up core article/missing article lists? He says he's thinking of North Africa for an inaugural one in October. If interested please sign up in the participants section of the Contest page, thanks.♦ --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^Che dicono a Signa?_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 01:40, 21 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Asian 10,000 Challenge invite

Hi. The Wikipedia:WikiProject Asia/The 10,000 Challenge has recently started, based on the UK/Ireland Wikipedia:The 10,000 Challenge and Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The 10,000 Challenge. The idea is not to record every minor edit, but to create a momentum to motivate editors to produce good content improvements and creations and inspire people to work on more countries than they might otherwise work on. There's also the possibility of establishing smaller country or regional challenges for places like South East Asia, Japan/China or India etc, much like Wikipedia:The 1000 Challenge (Nordic). For this to really work we need diversity and exciting content and editors from a broad range of countries regularly contributing. At some stage we hope to run some contests to benefit Asian content, a destubathon perhaps, aimed at reducing the stub count would be a good place to start, based on the current Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The Africa Destubathon which has produced near 200 articles in just three days. If you would like to see this happening for Asia, and see potential in this attracting more interest and editors for the country/countries you work on please sign up and being contributing to the challenge! This is a way we can target every country of Asia, and steadily vastly improve the encyclopedia. We need numbers to make this work so consider signing up as a participant! Thank you. --Ser Amantio di Nicolao^Che dicono a Signa?_{Lo dicono a Signa.} 05:03, 21 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Missing Wikipedians

Hi Yom, long time no talk. Hope all is well with you. Since you haven't edited since 2012, I added your name to Wikipedia:Missing Wikipedians. Feel free to remove it if you don't want to be included there. Best -- llywrch (talk) 06:04, 12 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Women in Red World Contest

Hi. We're into the last five days of the Women in Red World Contest. There's a new bonus prize of $200 worth of books of your choice to win for creating the most new women biographies between 0:00 on the 26th and 23:59 on 30th November. If you've been contributing to the contest, thank you for your support, we've produced over 2000 articles. If you haven't contributed yet, we would appreciate you taking the time to add entries to our articles achievements list by the end of the month. Thank you, and if participating, good luck with the finale!

AfroCine: Join us for the Months of African Cinema in October!

Greetings!

You are receiving this message because your username or portal was listed as a participant of a WikiProject that is related to Africa, the Carribean, Cinema or theatre.

This is to introduce you to a new Wikiproject called AfroCine. This new project is dedicated to improving the Wikipedia coverage of the history, works, people, places, events, etc, that are associated with the cinema, theatre and arts of Africa, African countries, the carribbean, and the diaspora. If you would love to be part of this or you're already contributing in this area, kindly list your name as a participant on the project page here.

Furthermore, In the months of October and November, the WikiProject is organizing a global on-wiki contest and edit-a-thon tagged: The Months of African Cinema. If you would love to join us for this exciting event, also list your username as a participant for this event here. In preparation for the contest, please do suggest relevant articles that need to be created or expanded in different countries, during this event!

If you have any questions, complaints, suggestions, etc., please reach out to me personally on my talkpage! Cheers!--Jamie Tubers (talk) 20:50, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to the Months of African Cinema!

Greetings!

The AfroCine Project welcomes you to October, the first out of the two months which has been dedicated to improving contents that centre around the cinema of Africa, the Caribbean, and the diaspora.

This is a global online edit-a-thon, which is happening in at least 5 language editions of Wikipedia, including the English Wikipedia! Join us in this exciting venture, by helping to create or expand articles which are connected to this scope. Also remember to list your name under the participants section, if you haven't done so already.

On English Wikipedia, we would be recognizing Users who are able to achieve the following:

• Overall winner (1st, 2nd, 3rd places)
• Country Winners
• Diversity winner
• High quality contributors
• Gender-gap fillers
• Page improvers
• Wikidata Translators

For further information about the contest, the recognition categories and how to participate, please visit the contest page here. For further inquiries, please leave comments on the contest talkpage or on the main project talkpage. See you around :).--Jamie Tubers (talk) 22:50, 03 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

AfroCine: Join the Months of African Cinema this October!

Greetings!

After a successful first iteration of the “Months of African Cinema” last year, we are happy to announce that it will be happening again this year, starting from October 1! In the 2018 edition of the contest, about 600 Wikipedia articles were created in at least 8 languages. There were also contributions to Wikidata and Wikimedia commons, which brought the total number of wikimedia pages created during the contest to over 1,000.

The AfroCine Project welcomes you to October, the first out of the two months which have been dedicated to creating and improving content that centre around the cinema of Africa, the Caribbean, and the diaspora. Join us in this global edit-a-thon, by helping to create or expand articles which are connected to this scope. Also remember to list your name under the participants section.

On English Wikipedia, we would be recognizing participants in the following manner:

• Overall winner (1st, 2nd, 3rd places)
• Diversity winner
• Gender-gap fillers

For further information about the contest, the recognition categories and how to participate, please visit the contest page here. For further inquiries, please leave comments on the contest talkpage or on the main project talkpage. See you around :).--Jamie Tubers (talk) 00:50, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion of File:Balcha Aba Nefso.jpg

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Proposed deletion of File:Tewodros Head.JPG

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This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 01:02, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

correction of population size of humera

Population size of Amhara in Humera is more than the stated number .I think the reason for mistake was data was taken from one side. Please refer up to dated data at the ground by now.Amharas are tortured ,slaguter and push to be migrated by TPLF for the last 30 years. Humera,Amhara region — Preceding unsigned comment added by Melkamu belete (talk • contribs) 11:53, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Template:First Italo-Ethiopian War" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Template:First Italo-Ethiopian War. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 7#Template:First Italo-Ethiopian War until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Platonk (talk) 05:39, 7 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

CfD nomination at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 1 § Category:WikiProject X members

A category or categories you have created have been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 October 1 § Category:WikiProject X members on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Qwerfjkltalk 09:31, 2 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Deletion discussion about Addi (Tigrinya term)

Hello Yom, and thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia.

While your contributions are appreciated, I wanted to let you know that I've started a discussion about whether an article that you created, Addi (Tigrinya term), should be deleted, as I am not sure that it is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia in its current form. Your comments are welcome at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Addi (Tigrinya term).

Deletion discussions usually run for seven days and are not votes. Our guide about effectively contributing to such discussions is worth a read. The most common issue in these discussions is notability, but it's not the only aspect that may be discussed; read the nomination and any other comments carefully before you contribute to the discussion. Last but not least, you are highly encouraged to continue improving the article; just be sure not to remove the tag about the deletion nomination from the top.

If you have any questions, please leave a comment here and prepend it with {{Re|Pppery}}. And don't forget to sign your reply with ~~~~ . Thanks!

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

* Pppery * _{it has begun...} 19:09, 25 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]