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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Canal D HD.GIF)
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Vector equivalent
I notice you've uploaded the Canal D logo as a png and replaced my vector version. Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#Rules_of_thumb states that "...SVG format for icons, logos, drawings, maps, flags, and such; PNG format for software screenshots and when only a raster image is available..." which means in this case, the SVG version I uploaded is more suited for Wikipedia. Not only is my file almost identical—the colour isn't that much different (though I will change it if you want me to)—but my file is 2kb, versus your file which is 8kb. I have re-replaced the Canal D logo with my own. I don't watch TVA so I don't really know if they tend to use the horizontal logo or not so I'll leave yours there. Tkgd2007 (talk) 17:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
If you could change the Canal D logo colour that'd be great. As you can see from the website, the logo uses a darker colour blue rather then the lighter colour of your logo, as well even with the Canal HD logo in the article, there is a difference, it'd be best if there was a consistency there. Thanks MusiMax (talk) 19:43, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
Alright, sounds great and I agree with the consistency thing. If you notice any of the other logos I've uploaded are miscoloured or should look differently, let me know and I can quickly fix them up. Cheers! Tkgd2007 (talk) 20:13, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Hi, I noticed that you edited these two articles to include the expected launch dates, so I was wondering if you can help with something else: the Industry Canada call sign database, which is where the information for those two call signs was originally taken, is now giving the call signs as CJCO and CJEO instead of CHXC and CHXE. I was just wondering if you know whether that's correct or not, so that I can move them if they actually have changed their calls. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 22:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Orphaned non-free image (Image:Discovery HD 1.jpg)
⚠
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Canwest Global Communications
It's important to keep in mind that the change to Canwest was a branding change only - the corporate name remains the same, and so the article probably shouldn't have been moved. Not fussed enough to undo it, though, but I've added the full name back in the lead of the article and in the infobox. Mlaffs (talk) 21:12, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Did you intend to move it to "Canwest"? I'm not sure why you moved it to "CanWest", but then change all the articles to "Canwest". --Rob (talk) 21:46, 10 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:CanWest Global Communications → Category:Canwest
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Hello, members and friends of WP:LGBT! I'm not one to be writing newsletters, but I miss our cruise director, Miss Julie, and our project is drifting along with a few leaking plugs in the bottom of the boat. Hey, it happens. Every group we join goes through changes. If Wikipedia weren't so interesting it wouldn't also be so frustrating sometimes. And vice versa. More than one Wikiproject has tumbleweeds blowing through it, but this is one that can't afford to let that happen. Even if you pop in to the talk page of the project, you can let us know you're still around.
WP:LGBT's Role in HIV / AIDS articles
It wouldn't be a proper gay community without a li'l bit o' drama! That's right. If we aren't arguing about something, then we should be asking if we're still queer. Maybe that's for the best, since we know we're still kicking. Our most recent topic is how far the role of our project should go in dipping our toes into HIV/AIDS articles. The main AIDS article was delisted as a Featured Article last month, sadly. (Sending a swift kick to WP:Medicine.) A spirited discussion is available for your entertainment on the WP:LGBT talk page about just how much of HIV and AIDS should we take on. As ever, we'll take your opinions under advisement. We're going to have to, because it doesn't seem to have been settled.
Is Pride POV?
We have a pretty cool sidebar that identifies core LGBT articles. Its symbol is the iconic gay pride flag, much like other Wikiprojects have iconic symbols denoting the topic is a core subject in a series of articles. However, a question recently arose asking if the symbol itself is not neutral. Should a pride flag show up at the top of the article on Conversion therapy? How else would anyone know the article is about queer issues? Is there another symbol that is as widely recognized and that includes all our many splintered facets? At what point do we stop asking ourselves all these questions and just go have a mint julep on the verandah and stop caring?
For the love of all that is holy, no Kool Aid jokes. However, an editor involved in pioneering San Francisco Supervisor Harvey Milk's article has included a section about the late supervisor's support of Jim Jones and the People's Temple. While it may be accurate, there is a Request for Comment regarding how much emphasis the section places on Milk's support in light of his overall political influence on the city, and indeed the rest of the United States. Milk's article is a sad one in more ways than one. It lacks the detail and heart that honors its subject. Anyone want to do a barter with me? I'll bring Harvey Milk to featured status (give me a month or two so I can read stuff), if you do something of equal value to WP:LGBT?? Make me an offer...
Queer Studies is offensive!
The established branch of study known as Queer studies was brought up as an category for deletion because an editor was offended by the use of "queer" in the title. It was overwhelmingly rejected mostly by the usernames I see here on our Wikiproject page. (A clue that I know you are out there, hiding...biding your time...) So, I wish I could congratulate you, but now I'm all confused by my sympathy for the editor who was offended. So, if you're reading this, Moni has a short memory and can't remember your username. Don't be put off by our demonstrative pushiness. Join us. We can always use involved editors.
What can you do to help the project out? Be a wiki-fairy, on many levels. There are all kinds of articles that need help. Why, just this morning I removed those ugly wikify and cleanup tags from four articles at random. If you can put [[ ]] around stuff, you can clean up articles. There's a list of articles that need attention at the top of the WP:LGBT talk page. Or you can start with the Lambda Literary Awards, where the goddess of my altar received a pioneering award, and was "reduced to rubble" by Katherine V. Forrest's wonderful speech. The 20th ceremony of the Lambda Literary Awards, which celebrates LGBT literature, took place in West Hollywood on May 29th [1]. The page needs to be updated with the new winners, to be found on the official website [2].
Why on earth would someone want to delete material about homosexuality? 'Tis truly a mystery. But these embattled articles have some random evil gnomes removing information that places these folks under our queer umbrella. Help us keep an eye out for the deletions. Take a peek at the articles, familiarize yourselves with the info, and be handy with the undo function in the article history. If tempers flare, take it to the Hall monitors and let them sort it out. Best solution is to make sure your sources are immaculate.
This month's Wiki stars
This is what I get for opening my big fat mouth and suggesting the newsletter should be revived. Here I am writing it. So, to pat self on back (*cough*) Mulholland Dr. became a featured article in May. This is A Good Thing since it is my personal declaration that there is no such thing as lesbian porn. I don't care what Benjiboi says about the video collection at goodvibes. Instead, we have hot women who connect on a deep, personal, soul-touching level, so this film should qualify as some of the skankiest porn available for lesbians. Plus, it's completely confusing and surreal! D'you think Laura Harring would care that the article is featured? I don't think so either... (Call me, Laura!)
Compulsive hoarding of templates
Once I saw a harrowing episode of Animal Planet's Animal Cops where this guy had, like, 250 cats in his house and it freaked me right out. I'm drawing a parallel between 250 cats and, well...three, really, templates in articles involving LGBT issues. Can we stick to one, maybe? In the aforementioned Harvey Milk's article there's a core LGBT template, a link to the LGBT portal, and a sidebar for LGBT rights. Jiminy! You'd think we weren't the folk to set industrial grey carpeting and track lighting in vogue. An LGBT footer was designed to link to articles of interest that aren't the aforementioned core articles. What do you think, can we have either an LGBT template for core articles, a footer for LGBT articles that are high profile but not core, or an LGBT rights template? As ever, anything's up for discussion on the WP:LGBT talk page.
It's June, Pride month. Wear sunscreen, stay hydrated, get a designated driver, then go half-dressed in the streets find a girlfriend or boyfriend, or some homo who's standing there looking lonely and kiss 'em up real good. Remember, it all started 39 years ago when a bunch of drag queens just got fed the f*ck up by the cops raiding the bar and dragging them all out to the pokey again. Rock on, queens! Enjoy your celebrations. My town's is in October, and 200 people attend. I miss Denver.
It looks like we've picked up a lot of talent lately. We have no doubt you'll be making your indelible mark on LGBT knowledge as we know it, here at Wikipedia.
In the immortal words of Miss Julie, "May all your Wiki days be bright, and may your Love Boat never turn into a Poseidon."
We miss you, Miss Julie, as well as all the others who have graced our project and are on wiki-breaks or just got fed up with all the nuttiness and went to live their lives. Get your stupid houses built and hurry up and come back. --Moni3 (talk) 16:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please let us know here. If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let Moni3 know.
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Hi, this message is in regards to your recent edits to VRAK.TV. I have a few issues with it, first in regards to the launch date; the official launch date of the service is September 1, 1988. This was the date that Canal Famille launched and Canal Famille is the same channel as VRAK.TV. Canal Famille simply changed its name or rebranded as VRAK.TV on January 2, 2001. So the preferred date to use in the infobox is the date the service launched which was September 1, 1988.
Secondly, the slogan you say is "Libérez vos bibites!". I cannot find anywhere on the website that mentions or refers to that phrase as its slogan. "Je suis VRAK.TV" is mentioned throughout the website though. This seems to still be the slogan of the service so it should be reinstated. Thanks musimax. (talk) 22:08, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Canal Famille was owned by another company and was really different. We should do the same as on the Francophone Wikipedia (VRAK.TV) and put January 2, 2001 for the launch date and create a different article for Canal Famille. Secondly, I watch VRAK.TV everyday and they now promote: "VRAK.TV, libérez vos bibittes!" ("Libérez vos bibittes" as slogan). It's also written in this press release (search for "Libérez vos bibittes" in the text and you'll find: "VRAK.TV - General Branding/Image Campaign - Libérez vos bibittes". Cordially, Jimmy Lavoie × Vive le Québec libre!talk02:35, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Canal Famille may have been originally owned by a different company but Astral eventually came to own the channel and what now is called VRAK.TV. These 2 channels are the same channel, they may have been different in terms of the programming they aired but it is still the same channel used under the same licence that VRAK.TV uses now. Canal Famille simply changed its name to VRAK.TV. It's the same sort of thing as talktv and MTV Canada. Talktv launched in 2000 but it "rebranded" and changed its name to MTV and thus picked up a whole new slate of programming that fits with MTV. Thus the proper date to use is the very first date that the channel launched under. Maybe your confusing Canal Famille with TVJQ because TVJQ was completely different ? But anyways the French Wikipedia page should be changed as well.
As for the slogan, in that press release it doesn't state for a fact that the phrase is its slogan. If you look above in the Or category where Canal D is, under "General Branding/Image Campaign" (the same as what you stated was for VRAK.TV) it says "Campagne Mardis dangereux et Vendredis policiers" and I can pretty much guarantee that is not Canal D's slogan. So this press release doesn't prove that this phrase is VRAK.TV's slogan. From what I can tell, that phrase looks like the corporate name of the "Je suis VRAK.TV " ad campaign maybe, but not its slogan. I cannot find that phrase anywhere on its website and if it was their slogan it would be on their website somewhere. However what was posted on Wikipedia before as its slogan "Je suis VRAK.TV" is still shown many times. I say put "Je suis VRAK.TV" back as the slogan until some concrete proof is given to show the new slogan if there is one. I think that's fair. Thanks musimax. (talk) 03:15, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I understand the first point. For the second one: before each show, and during the show, they were airing, two months ago (I guess), a little publicity telling "Je suis VRAK.TV"... and that was the slogan, as "Méchant Canal" was when VRAK.TV launched. But now, it’s telling in the publicity: "Libérez vos bibittes!". Anyway, I’ll try to contact VRAK.TV to ask them what exactly is the official slogan. Will it be a good reference? Jimmy Lavoie × Vive le Québec libre!talk04:12, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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CityTV logo
In American copyright law, there is a threshold of originality rule. Basic typefaces and geometric shapes cannot be copyrightable. Please do not add the tags back. ViperSnake15118:52, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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An unfortunate effect of a group less active than in the past is that our articles lose integrity. This one is at Good Article Review for that reason. The talk page is quite active as a result. You have the opportunity to help. This is the corest of our core articles, and it needs some attention because it gets a lot of controversial input from many sides. If you can spare any time to edit the article, please do what you can.
Soon after we were informed that Homosexuality is being scrutinized, we heard the same for one of our few Featured Articles. As a participant of the Featured Article process, I think this is actually a good thing. The standards for Featured Articles are getting higher with time. But as a member of this project, that means that a few of ours may be de-listed unless someone can swoop in and save them. This one has to do with the designation of homosexuality as a crime in Germany. Most of this article's sources are in German. If anyone has any particular skill in this area, please lend a hand!
I know you folks think I have much experience in a gay bathhouse, and I hate to disappoint you, but I actually do not. I seem like the sort of person who likes to stroll about in a towel. Shocking, no? It appears that Ashleyvh is single-handedly addressing all the problems with this article at its GA Review. While that's pretty impressive, it's also no doubt exhausting. Can anyone help out there?
In what I hope will counter the jolt of re-evaluating three Good or Featured Articles, José Sarria and Janet Jackson as gay icon passed as Good Articles, and Black Cat Bar (famous San Francisco oft-raided gay bar) is nominated, all by Otto4711. Rock on, man. You're a machine. Good luck with your nominations. What is it about women that make them gay icons? And are there lesbian icons that aren't lesbians? How about bisexual icons? Am I the only lesbian who reacts with soul-trembling fear at the sight of Angelina Jolie?
New WP:LGBT studies member Pinkkeith has done this cool thing. If you click on that link, you'll see all the articles, categories, templates, and miscellany up for deletion. They're usually there because they're not considered to be not notable. That can be a relative concept, and sometimes it has to be argued that topics pertaining to gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender issues are notable.
It seems a recurring issue which articles to tag, and what to say about a topic that's tagged. Certainly, because an article falls under our scope doesn't necessarily make the person gay. Florida Governor Charlie Crist has been rumored to be gay in some newspaper accounts. Although we all know Fred Phelps is supergay, he won't admit it so instead he does the absolutely awfulest anti-gay things on the planet to deflect suspicion. NAMBLA, the red headed stepchild of the LGBT world, is tagged with an explanation we have yet to decide if we'll keep.
In the lurking I do around and about on Wiki, I've long been astounded at the forbearance Benjiboi has for the utterly insane. Perhaps not so much, since the message on Benji's talk page notes frequent absences due to homophobia and transphobia. But it takes some kind of ... something that I don't have to face the constant anti-gay POV Benji does.
Benjiboi is a a bit of a WikiFaerie, a WikiGnome and also a member of the Article Rescue Squadron in addition to being a LGBT project member. A few of Benjiboi's favorite links for making the wikiverse more fab are:
Becksguy didn’t start actively editing until May 2007. His most frequent tasks on Wiki include reverting vandalism to LGBT articles and creating new project-related articles. He comes from New York state, and to prove not all of us are teenagers (ha! I am so totally 15!) he's in his 60s and retired.
Becksguy considers his biggest triumph on Wikipedia so far was a DYK in December 2007 for the first-ever newspaper report on what became AIDS, in the New York Native. He's also helped save several project-related articles from deletion. His lowest moment here was getting involved in the discussion on a particular terrorism related article, thinking he could help calm the roiled waters on an extremely contentious subject with multiple edit wars and passionate editors.
Here at WP:LGBT, he creates and improves articles that present notable LGBT related subjects in a fair and balanced way, and tries to include more of the significant alternative sexuality related subjects without being an activist, and works to better source project-related articles.
On Wikipedia as a whole, he says, "I think we need to learn better what processes work for a massive collaborative project. Some of what worked well for a more informal small project doesn’t scale up well. Process is not as important when the participants know each other. We need to get more of the current members to be more active. If more members were energized, the project would be able to accomplish more. We should be, in effect, the smaller and included Wikipedia for LGBT related subjects. Overall, I wish we could focus more on content creation and improvement, and less on vandal fighting."
"A Supreme Court decision in 1958 reversed a 1956 ruling by a federal district court that U.S. postal authorities were correct in prohibiting the mailing of the Mattachine Society's ONE magazine. The lower court had ruled that ONE was not protected by the First Amendment because the magazine's contents 'may be vulgar, offensive, and indecent even though not regarded as such by a particular group ... because their own social or moral standards are far below those of the general community ... Social standards are fixed by and for the great majority and not by and for a hardened or weakened minority.'" - Michael Bronski in Pulp Friction, 2003
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Please do not make cut and paste moves, as you did with CBC Bold, as it loses the page history and breaks GDFL. As such, I have reverted your edits. If you wish to move the page, please use the move tab. If this does not work, you must file a WP:RM. Cheers, пﮟოьεԻ5707:25, 11 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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A tag has been placed on Peace Point Entertainment Group, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article seems to be blatant advertising that only promotes a company, product, group, service or person and would need to be fundamentally rewritten in order to become an encyclopedia article. Please read the general criteria for speedy deletion, particularly item 11, as well as the guidelines on spam.
If you can indicate why the subject of this article is not blatant advertising, you may contest the tagging. To do this, please add {{hangon}} on the top of Peace Point Entertainment Group and leave a note on the article's talk page explaining your position. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would help make it encyclopedic, as well as adding any citations from independent reliable sources to ensure that the article will be verifiable. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Orange Mike | Talk19:35, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Rogers Sportsnet Pacific.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Rogers Sportsnet Pacific.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:54, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Orphaned non-free media (Image:Rogers Sportsnet West.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Rogers Sportsnet West.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:54, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Orphaned non-free media (Image:Setanta Premium.gif)
Thanks for uploading Image:Setanta Premium.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:55, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Orphaned non-free media (Image:Sextv lrg.jpg)
Thanks for uploading Image:Sextv lrg.jpg. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:56, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Orphaned non-free media (Image:WFN Logo.PNG)
Thanks for uploading Image:WFN Logo.PNG. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:14, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Orphaned non-free media (Image:EastLink.PNG)
Thanks for uploading Image:EastLink.PNG. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:14, 1 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Orphaned non-free media (Image:TMN On Demand.PNG)
Thanks for uploading Image:TMN On Demand.PNG. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:26, 5 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Orphaned non-free media (Image:Boldtv.gif)
Thanks for uploading Image:Boldtv.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).
If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]