User talk:Michael Snow/Archive (Aug 2005)

In the news...

My browser just crashed and lost what I was doing for the Signpost, unfortunately. I probably won't be able to get it re-done until a bit later this afternoon - I can add it to the Signpost when it's finished, if you're going to put the latest edition out before I'm done. Worldtraveller 12:35, 1 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Baha'i and Israel

You are incorrect in stating that proselytization is illegal in Israel, and you misunderstood the brief mention about why Baha'i do not seek converts in Israel in the article you quoted. It has nothing to to with an Israeli policy, it is the policy of the religion itself which literally refuses converts from Israel. To quote from Ann Wong and Anne Boyles, both PR representatives of the Baha'i in Haifa, if asked by an Israeli who wants to convert, they respond "We say we are sorry because we neither seek nor accept converts to the Baha'i faith in the State of Israel. It is a teaching of the Baha'u'llah, not anything that the government has imposed upon us. It is something the Baha'u'llah said over 100 years ago, and through the line of succession up to the present day that directive has never been rescinded, so we still do not teach to people in this country." [1] I don't doubt that the Jewish authorities in Haifa are happy that the giant temple in the center of the city does not seek converts, but it has nothing at all to do with Israeli policy. --Goodoldpolonius2 03:32, 2 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

admin nomination

Hey Michael, now that I've finally passed the 3000 edit mark, I was thinking it would be nice to pick up a mop and bucket. Any chance I could finagle an admin nomination from you? Just thought I'd ask :) Kaldari 00:00, 3 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

he. Kaldari 03:33, 3 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

cool, thanks! Kaldari 04:15, 3 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

ip block

you have blocked an AOL ip, and now I can't cpntribute. Wikipedia guidelines say AOL ips should be blocked for 1 hour and not more. please un block User:205.188.116.196

VFD RFC deletion

You may also wish to weigh in at Wikipedia:Votes_for_undeletion, where the RFC page is presently listed. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 22:24, 3 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Apologies on the Stevetigo RfC

I'm still learning the finer points of wiki, something strange must have happened with my comp, I clicked the "(cur)" edit next to his name, and I saw some jibberish put in. However, from looking at the other extenuating circumstances, I still think he shouldn't be an admin. If I can assist with your journalism project let me know, i've had my byline published at 8 newspapers in the past 5 years. Karmafist 04:22, 7 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

re:comment removal

That's fine with me. I try to act fairly and resolve disputes, and often misunderstandings do the opposite. Karmafist 04:26, 7 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Your question to FM

Hi Michael, I responded to your question on my talk page. Thanks for the thoughtful questions and the opportunity to speak on the matter. FeloniousMonk 15:10, 7 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Need a little help

I went to edit bits and pieces of the Vietnem War article and discovered it was protected, which I except on account of its contoversy; However, I was wondering if you could insert a link to Operation Frequent Wind in the "Related Topics" section of the page. Frequent Wind was the codename for the Helicopter Evacuation from Saigon, its relevent to the article, and in all honest should be in the article. TomStar81 21:22, 7 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Signpost spam

My understanding was that Tony Sidaway and Carnildo were engaged in disputes before the reopening of the disputed VfDs. -- Cyrius|✎ 23:44, 7 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I do not believe that the developers deliberately locked the database. My understanding is that the database was in effect locked because the queries for deleting, and then undeleting, VfD, each took some minutes to run thus causing a backlog of page saves and page views to build up, and apache timeouts to occur. Being a Wikipedian of very small mind, my understanding of technical matters is frequently distorted and incomplete. Therefore you may wish to check with others. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 00:08, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Signpost

Hi Michael. I am more than a little upset to see the suspension of the Signpost! If at any point you are to recommence, I would very much like to play a part, if that would be helpful. In particular, I would very much like to take over Spangineer's role, if that suits you. Cheers, and good luck! [[smoddy]] 14:54, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Michael. :) I have very much enjoyed the Signpost, and eagerly await its return. It took me awhile to locate this, but I suspected that we had a list like this somewhere: Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_fields_of_interest_G-J#Journalism, ie: perhaps when you start up again, you could enlist the help of those interested in journalism, so that it isn't such a large burden upon yourself. :) Take care, Func( t, c ) 15:29, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If you need for someone to cover the Featured content, I am willing to do it. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 15:56, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

It's been fun! The Signpost has definitely been helpful for me too, informing me of all sorts of things that I'd never know otherwise. I'm glad to have been able to help out. If it does start up again, I'll be sure to contribute when I can. I've been thinking about possible format changes: what would you think if it were converted to a polished Wikipedia:Village pump (news)? I'm not sure how it would work, but allowing stories to be posted whenever might increase community involvement. Have a proposals page and a published page—anyone could post an article to the proposals page, and for it to get moved to the published page, someone from a "team of editors" would have to proofread it and put it there. The editors could be people respected for their command of English and ability to eliminate POV. Or, just go the whole way and make an internal wikinews site for wikipedia, with news articles developing just like encyclopedia articles. I'm not sure it would work, but something like that might encourage more people to get involved. In any case, great work! Your dedication to the project is to be commended. --Spangineer (háblame) 16:04, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

Another appreciative note: I always read the Signpost and really appreciate how it draws together the various threads into a united whole. There is clearly a need for more reflective feedback on a longer timescale than RC minute by minute and WP:GO day by day, but shorter than the Quarto. I'll have to disagree with Spangineer: I think it really helps to have the Signpost "published" in one go, rather than dribbled out day by day. The relatively small body of active writers and editorial circle gives it a unity of style and content. I'd love to help, but I'm just afraid that I won't be able to follow through with the commitment that it clearly needs and you have put in. On the other hand, I'm happy to wield the blue pencil from time to time.

It would be a shame to see the Signpost die quietly. Just some ideas: What tasks take the most time? Can they be split up and redistributed? If the weekly format is too demanding, how about fortnightly or monthly? -- ALoan (Talk) 16:42, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Pursuant to the above, in recognition of your sterling efforts to maintain Wikipedia Signpost, you are hereby my hero of the day and here is a gold star (I trust you won't take offence at being awarded an ex-Soviet honour). -- ALoan (Talk) 15:59, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Hello, Michael. Sorry to see the Signpost's stopped- I enjoyed reading it. Anyways, if you ever need me, I'll be willing to write on RfAs and featured content (though I see that two people already grabbed it ahead of me... :-) )Flcelloguy | A note? | Desk 18:26, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Michael, I would be willing to take over as editor, either temporarily or permanently. If you could get in touch with me on my talk page, that would be good; I'd be happy to run the Signpost with help from the above users. ral315 18:40, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

You've done a great job on the Signpost and deserve a break. Hopefully a cadre of other editors can restart it again soon. As a matter of fact, I was planning on contributing weekly updates on Wikimedia finances and grant/fund drive activities. --mav 01:07, 9 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

RFA

Thanks for your support for my RFA. It is appreciated. --Briangotts (talk) 17:37, 8 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar

I hereby award Michael Snow the Tireless Contributor Barnstar for his work on The Wikipedia Signpost. –Kaldari 05:38, 9 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

As a religious reader of the Signpost, I wanted to thank you for all of your work on it. I think it's been a great asset to the community and I hope other editors will pick up where you've left off. In appreciation for your work, I award you the tireless contributor Barnstar. Kaldari 05:38, 9 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Users who endorse this Barnstar:

1. Michael Snow has maintained uniformly high standards in every issue of the Signpost. Willmcw 07:09, August 9, 2005 (UTC)
2. Absolutely! Worldtraveller 16:10, 9 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
3. Yes. I also think Michael should write Wikipedia: The Book and Wikipedia: The Movie. :) Func( t, c ) 19:31, 9 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
4. Well done on the Signpost. Phoenix2 03:43, August 10, 2005 (UTC)
5. Wholeheartedly, the Signpost was a brilliant idea and must have required a huge amount of work. the wub "?/!" 09:31, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
6. Signpost was excellent. I'm very sad to see it's being suspended. Thanks for all your work on it. Angela. 13:43, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

Signpost

• Thanks for your note, and sorry to hear the Signpost is taking a wikibreak. I've very much enjoyed contributing, and looked forward to reading it each week. I'd have liked to contribute more than I managed to, but in recent weeks have not really found the time to do any more than just my news column. Will happily help in any way I can to revive the Signpost, and think of ways to better distribute the workload, which thus far has fallen by far most heavily on you. I've enjoyed reading as much as contributing and hope your editorship and column writing will resume in the not too distant future! Worldtraveller 16:10, 9 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]
• I recently started reading the Signpost weekly, and will do all that I can to help this extremely worthwhile project! :) Phoenix2 03:46, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

• Me too, and in recognition of your excellent work I present you with the First Annual Montgomery Burns Award For Outstanding Achievement In The Field Of Excellence :) the wub "?/!" 09:38, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Outstanding Achievement in Original Poetry

Fantastic sonnet vandalism, even if the sonnet didn't quite work. The moving and affecting content more than made up for any shortcomings in form. :-)

Wiki is the cruelest site

Mixing reference with desire

A little information with the fanboi ravings.

Everything2 kept us warm,

Covering our hoots in indifference.

Wiki1 surprised us, coming out of Tampa Bay,

The dried feet of academics more numerous

Than the hollow bones of dead men in rat's alley.

Geogre 03:08, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

Michael, I truly appreciate your gracious comments and I promise to do this thing right. I also appreciate your voting, even if it was to oppose since I know you have this site's best interest in mind. I won't let you down. Cross my heart. - Lucky 6.9 05:27, 10 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Nudity policy

Where do I report violations? Ksnow 09:00, 11 August 2005 (UTC)Ksnow[reply]

Thanks for the Signpost

I just want to thank you for the fantastic work you have been doing with The Signpost - it has been an invaluable service. Dan100 (Talk) 14:30, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

My RfA

Hi Michael! I should mention I'm a Signpost fan, although I don't read it as often as I should :) (Wikipedia editing does that to me with everything though!) Thanks very much for the RfA support, it's a nice feeling to know that I'm trusted by good users :). Happy editing, Slac speak up! 21:41, 11 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Charlotte Observer

The reqimage was put on the page requesting the masthead and/or a picture of the HQ to be put on the page. Thanks 69.134.50.153 20:06, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Instead of being an ass and just removing it, why don't be helpful you put it on the edit page? That really ticks me off!69.134.50.153 20:23, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Then, if you don't have time to finish the job by moving the template to the talk page, then don't even start the job of removing the template. 69.134.50.153 21:42, 12 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Adminship

Michael, it's an honor for a Wikipedian of your stature to think that I'd be admin material. I would be most happy to accept a nomination from you. --Fernando Rizo T/C 05:10, 13 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Bureaucrat?

I believe the project would be well served to have more bureaucrats, and I think you'd be a good candidate. Would you be willing to consider it? The Uninvited Co., Inc. 06:13, 14 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I understand your concerns. Let me try to address at least some of them.

• At present there are really only a few bureaucrats actively involved in promotion, as a look at the permissions log will show. The original idea behind the bureaucrats was that the task would be spread out among the dozen or so initial people. That's never really happened, mainly because so many bureaucrats have become involved elsewhere (board, arbcom, mediation, or leading other wikimedia projects).
• There have been no new bureaucrats since my promotion almost a year ago. I think that it is important to promote bureaucrats on an ongoing basis so that, as a community, we don't forget how. It is also important to avoid the appearance that it is a closed group, and qualified applicants like yourself are the best way to address that.
• I understand and sympathize with your concern about the name, but that's a minor matter, really.
• Several bureaucrats comment or vote on adminship nominations. I believe there's nothing wrong with this as long as it is done early in the nomination process. If you wish to express strong sentiments on a particular vote, you can always refrain from closing it yourself. I have done that.
• While I see your point about being able to stand up for the RFA process, I don't think it's a sufficient magnet for criticism to need a ready field of advocates.

Finally, there are really relatively few long-time, consistent users at en: who are level-headed, interested in policy, and not already involved in a major, specialized role.

The Uninvited Co., Inc. 06:57, 14 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Or you could be like me and Mav and wear many hats at once :) →Raul654 07:25, August 14, 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Jamie Kane

In light of your comments in the discussion, I suggest revisiting the article and then revisiting the discussion. Uncle G 00:34:57, 2005-08-15 (UTC)

eh

Hi, just wanted to say that I think your action now resolved the issue about Sphaera Mundi. Www.wikinerds.org 06:58, 15 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Bottom of the pyramid

Hi Michael, As you may remember a month or so ago you saw the deletion of a terrible article The Next Billion and a sibling article Bottom of the pyramid. The article was created by a new user who pushed people in the direction of his own website (creating a poor article) and moreover exaceberated the VfD by creating sockpuppets. With this background it is not surprising that the VfD consensus to delete. I always felt that the VfD debaters were not well-equipped with the important information and so made a mistake in not recoginising there was a genuine encyclopedic topic here. An article about the subject appeared in The Economist this week and this spurred me to re-write the article. I hope it is much better than the last one in that it

1. ) Is wikified.
2. ) Has repuable references to the Washington Post and Economist
3. ) is neutral
4. ) isn't an advert for another website.

As you were interested last time, I invite you to review the little article I have written and comment. Many thanks, Pcb21| Pete 19:59, 15 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

NoPuzzleStranger

Hi! If it's OK, I've added my name to the list of administrators in the RfA against this guy. I was the one who figured out the anagram as I was drifting off for a nap, at least as far as just "Gzornenplatz" was concerned, and I e-mailed several admins and bureaucrats last night. Khaosworks, to his infinite credit, figured out the extra letters that I didn't try and decode. Michael, this guy has been stalking my every edit and raking me over the coals on Votes for Undeletion. I don't know what I can do to help, but I want to see this guy gone. It's no coincidence in my book that this guy showed up soon afterward, made the same kinds of edits and the same kinds of disruptions. The anagram did it for me, despite his claims to the contrary. - Lucky 6.9 19:44, 15 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, Michael. You're right. I just can't believe the nerve of that guy. I'll gladly retract the statement if you wish. - Lucky 6.9 21:13, 15 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Anytime. Just knowing this guy is going away real soon is good enough for me. Later! - Lucky 6.9 21:25, 15 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Location of templates

Hi, based on the discussion at Wikipedia:Template locations it seems clear that the community generally prefers that templates related to internal efforts such as this one, which are "meta" information and not meaningful to readers, be placed on the talk page of the article instead of the article itself. In particular, this view prevailed with respect to the Template:COTW associated with a parallel project. --Michael Snow 20:12, 16 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

That is all very nice, but our templates are not talk-page templates, they have a special design. The templates belong on the article page of the nomination and should be removed when the nomination fails. Your wording the community generally prefers... is false. The community consists of thousands of editors who obviously were not interested enough in these bullying attempts to even voice an opinion on the page you set up.--Fenice 20:16, 16 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

May I ask why you start your bullying rant on my page and do not post your message on the main collaboration talk page. Also, please cut it out. The bullying has caused so many problems and is so distructive. Don't you have anything else to do? If you want to contribute to the IDrive, please do something useful and add content to our project article: Spice trade.--Fenice 20:43, 16 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Of course, Michael, if you absolutely insist, I will leave. We have been through this crap before. You will need to take over my work on the IDrive however, which is about a hundred edits per day. I don't mind. Really, your kind, the edit-warring herd, is just not my thing, and I don't think I want to have anything to do with people of your kind. The question I find so hard to answer: why are you being so distructive. Have you ever thought about seeing a psychiatrist with your aggression problem?--Fenice 21:15, 16 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I have archived the discussion again, because it has served its purpose and I am leaving.--Fenice 21:42, 16 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Apparently I have been edit-warring and forced Fenice away from Wikipedia (for the second time). He really does have an obsession with the IDRIVE project, which in the most part is very good but he has become ridiculously defensive of the templates in particular. Sorry that you've become the latest person in his firing line, which I feel is a backlash from my initial altercation. violet/riga (t) 21:49, 16 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

How can I get trained as a lawyer and develop argumentation and debate abilities?

Hi, I just wanted to say that I think you have a strong ability in balancing and resolving disputes, as well as presenting strong and reasonable arguments. I noticed you are trained as a lawyer, and I would like to ask in what area of law you are specialised in. I have finished Computer Science studies and now I'm considering pursuing law studies, because I'm personally interested in argumentation and debate, as well as the philosophy of law, international treaties, and copyright/patents/trade mark law, although I don't really plan to work professionally as a lawyer. Did your lawyer training help you to develop your dispute resolution and argumentation abilities, and how do you think a person can benefit from law studies? Are there any good books or courses (preferably online/e-learning) that you can recommend? Wikinerd 08:14, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/WikiProject_Wikipedians_for_Decency

I'm pretty sure this has come up before, but the debate about obscenity has come up again. This time, it has come up in a VFD discussion about a WikiProject that attempts to identify (and censor) images that are sexually explicit. There's the argument that since Wikimedia's servers are in Florida, we have to somehow comply to a state law that prohibits the distribution of sexually-explicit images to minors. In my non-lawyer opinion, any images that are encyclopedic pass the Miller Test, and those that aren't should be deleted through IFD anyway, but IANAL. However, the debate is becoming quite heated. Since you're a member of the juriwiki, people would listen to your interpretation of the issue and maybe cool off their heads. Would you mind taking a look at it? --Titoxd 19:08, 17 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This probably deserves a Signpost article too. --Ryan Delaney ^talk 11:44, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Signpost

I appreciate the support. Do whatever you can, but don't worry if you get busier; it comes with the territory. If and when you do find the time to come back, I'll stick on as a writer, so long as my schedule doesn't get in the way either. ral315 17:08, August 18, 2005 (UTC)

Signpost was/is one my favorite things on Wikipedia, it was very well done, I hope you'll find the time to continue, but can see how it would take up a lot of time. Thanks for all your work thus far. Stbalbach 14:25, 21 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

US Copyright law questions

Hey, a year or two ago I made a nice leather carving, based on a Tandy doodle page, which is basically a photo of the finished work, and a line drawing to trace onto the leather. I took a picture of it and put it on commons (Image:Phdinoleatherpic.jpg), and i'm pretty sure it needs to be in public domain, which i tagged it for. It is my understanding that since I used the pattern, I don't have a copyright claim to it, is that right? So is the photo copyrighted to the company, or is it public domain? --Phroziac (talk) 20:33, 18 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the advice man, :) --Phroziac (talk) 18:00, 19 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Goings on & VFD updates

Do you want the VFD section to be placed back on Goings on? I've had a chance to fix my bot now. There were server upgrades and other stuff preventing me from getting around to fix my bots. --AllyUnion (talk) 03:38, 20 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Fernando Rizo's RfA

I was promoted last night, and I largely have you to thank for it, Michael. Thanks very much for nominating me, I know that I won't let you down. Fernando Rizo T/C 16:54, 20 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Adminship

Now that it is over, thanks again for the nom. I would also like to express my amusement that in this day age of m:editcountitis, I went through the entire process without anyone linking to Kate's tool and/or noting the number of edits I've made. There are no serious noms on the board right now that have that property and I can't remember any others that did either. Dragons flight 03:12, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

Signpost

Hi there! Some major changes have taken place recently on the Reference Desk. It has been split into subcategories to make question asking, answering, and archiving easier. Would it be okay to mention these changes on the Signpost? The changes took about a day to do and started on the 25th. There are still some loose ends to tie up, but the major changes seem to be completed now.

There are now 4 subpages and for Wikipedians who want to help out with question answering, it's probably best to put all these pages in the watchlist (or just put the ones people are interested in)

• Wikipedia:Reference desk/Humanities --> shortcut (WP:RD/H)
• Wikipedia:Reference desk/Language --> shortcut (WP:RD/L or WP:RD/LANG)
• Wikipedia:Reference desk/Science --> shortcut (WP:RD/S or WP:RD/SCI)
• Wikipedia:Reference desk/Miscellaneous --> shortcut (WP:RD/M or WP:RD/MISC)

It is still possible to view all the questions at once just like the original reference desk at Wikipedia:Reference desk/all --> shortcuts WP:RD/ALL or WP:RD/A. Thanks for your help! --HappyCamper 16:18, 26 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to say that I will cover this in this week's signpost. ral315 22:20, August 26, 2005 (UTC)

Edification

Rather than trying to be counterproductive, I seek edification. It seems to me perhaps you find discussion counterproductive? This would go against the very idea of discussion, particularily when the discussion revolves around an issue of concensus. I am sorry if my motivations were not completely clear to you. Also, having the candidate answer a direct question regarding potential policies gives the community a better understanding of said candidate. I thought to answer your comment here, rather than at the VfAd, as it is more of a personal observation regarding your comment there, rather than an actual issue for the candidate to be concerned with. Hamster Sandwich 06:24, 27 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]