User talk:Mattythewhite/Archive 6

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Mattythewhite. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

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Archive 10

vandalism?

you accused me of vandalism on Hossein Ka'abi. i never edited anything, so you can shove your accusations up your ass.

Dickov

Can you check the stats in the infobox are up to date and, if so, change the date so it's more recent than October 2006? Then I'm done... The Rambling Man 11:36, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

I've promoted him, can you just do the date thing when you get a chance? Good work. The Rambling Man 12:00, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

Ben Watson

Hi, I was trying to sort out the two Ben Watson's.

In doing so I moved the wrong Ben Watson, I think it's pretty much sorted although Ben Watson (footballer) has been blanked, whereas it used to link to Crystal Palace's Ben Watson (footballer born 1985). Not too sure what's going on!?!

Thanks

Yeh thought it might not, although would he qualify because he's played for the national futsal team on a number of occasions? I'm not too sure about notibility of such players in said competitions etc

Jimbo online 16:43, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

CAFC GA

Hey, thanks for the note. I'm not bothered to be honest, I was going to re-review it today after most of my comments were dealt with. My criteria for passing to GA are probably a bit harsh anyway since I spent such a long time reviewing and producing FA's. Thanks for letting me know, though. The Rambling Man 09:51, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

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You say "Recentism", I say "So what?"

WP:RECENTISM "is an essay. It is not a policy or guideline; it merely reflects some opinions of its author(s)."

I'm not, as you say, using this as an "excuse", I'm saying that it doesn't provide any justification for deleting these sentences from the article. If you find something that's biased, you can delete it for contravening WP:NPOV; if something is unsourced it can be deleted as contravening WP:VERIFIABILITY (though the polite thing to do is ask for a source first). To cut out paragraphs from an article and throw them in the bin based on an opinion piece is a different matter.

Second of all, as the essay itself states, Recentism "has both positive and negative aspects" - it is not always a bad thing (why do we have the current squad list?). I contend that this information is important and relevant. It is a sourced statement that the new chairman intends to invest funds into the club with the intention of achieving promotion to the Premiership for the first time in its history. Yes, every club has that as an ambition, but not every club is actually chucking money at it. It's noteworthy when a club changes hands and noteworthy when the new owners make that sort of statement. In ten years time the article will either say that he went on to achieve this aim, or that (like with others before him) it was an unfulfilled promise.

The most frustrating thing about this is that I thought we'd reached a consensus. Now I see that you had no intention of compromising, you were simply waiting a couple of weeks before you went ahead and deleted it anyway. That's annoying. There's no doubt you've made some stellar improvements to this article, but having done so you now seem to be unwilling to let anyone else contribute to it - if something is changed you revert it, if something is added you delete it - it's Matty's way or no way at all. You seem to be acting as if you own the article, and that's not the way Wikipedia is supposed to work!

Second matter, the rivalry with Sheffield United. Just because it isn't in your source doesn't mean it's not true. That census only reports the top three rivals from that time - December 2003, when we were still in the bottom division. Rivalry is something that, in part at least, is fluid, depending on the relative positions of the clubs (quote from the census: "22% of fans say their current main rival is not the same as their `traditional' rival"). When that survey was conducted, we may have classed Grimsby as one of our main rivals, and Sheff Utd had been at least two divisions apart from us for many years, so that rivalry had faded somewhat - now it's the other way round.

Asking for a source is entirely reasonable (rather than just deleting it!). From spending time on various Hull City messageboards, I can tell you that it's a semi-regular topic, "why are you going on about Leeds when our main rival is Sheff Utd?". Obviously I can't really use messageboards as a source, and I know that as per WP:VERIFIABILITY it doesn't just need to be true, it needs to be demonstrable. So I'll work on finding a proper source. We can easily show their geographical proximity. We can easily prove show that they spent time in the same division, and that during this time Sheff Utd achived promotion at City's expense by only one goal on 'Goals Scored'. Finding an explicit "they are rivals" statement might not be so easy.

Beve 22:38, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Matty,

So we've annoyed each other. But I reckon we can get over it, right? After all, we're both on the same team (within Wikipedia, if not football!). I apologise for being slightly angry and ranty.

Congratulations and thanks are due, by the way, on getting the article up to 'Good' standard.

I'll work on finding that source.

Beve 08:03, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Hi Matty,

I wasn't that bothered about the Sheff Utd thing, the reason I never added that in in the first place is beacuse I had no source. As you'll no doubt have found, getting a source for that isn't easy, so I asked one of the Hull City sites to run a poll, and another to do a story on the rivalry - not ideal, but I hope they'll do. I rewrote the section a bit as well, I hope it's OK.

A couple of other suggestions for improving the article still further: moving the complete list of managers to the Hull City AFC History side article, and removing the Player Of The Year section as it is (or will be) covered in the Hull City AFC Seasons side article. Didn't want to go ahead without running it by you first - what do you think?

Cheers,

Beve 20:26, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

All fair enough,

The manager list to me clutters the article up, and with there being a side article now on Hull City History, I thought that would be the place for it to go. The player of the year thing - I guess it ought to go back further than just the last few years really, and again clutters it up IMO. But I appreciate there is a standardised way of doing these things, and that for a reason. (these lists also orphan the 'current staff' section from the 'current players' section, which doesn't look right to me).

Similarly with the "Seasons" side article, I was expanding what was there without actually looking at standards or other teams' pages (another bloody enthusiastic amateur, but at least this one can spell!). I figured that since the main article has been trimmed so much, that was the place for all the info to go - it would be a shame to simply discard it. If we standardise the article, where does the prose go? I can put a bit of work into it to while away the long night shifts.

Ta,

Beve 20:57, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Stuart Elliott

Well done on finding out his stats for Northwich and the rest. That's some effort for a bloke who probably doesn't remember that time his mate asked him to turn out for some village side. I do wonder why we bother given I'd put good money that he "does a Bowey" and returns to his other jobs at the end of the season. He didn't even look that outstanding against Leeds and, in comparison to the other players, had really bad hair. Still, he's bound to be ever present in the side and quite a good influence on the pitch with Billy 'timid' McEwan to back him up.

ANYWAY - from the Evening Press map we're missing Dundee, Gateshead, Carlisle, Scunthorpe and Kidderminster from his teams. I really have no idea if they're right, how we'd find out or whether, in the scale of things, this is really worth a second's thought. But if you fancy a challenge there you go (and I believe that takes him to 30 teams...I'm going to add a link on the 'journeymen' page). Me677 21:53, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Apologies, going blind on a couple of those. I'm actually very optimistic based on Friday's showing - clearly not together as a team but a couple of solid players to compliment the real talent we've got. I'd put money on a play-off place and Craddock for clubman of the year. The only defect is a tried and tested goalscorer but Sodje could easily slip into the CD role, albeit CD when he joined in '05 rather than last season's 25 goal tally. Oh, and based on that performance I'd get Joe Brown (footballer) up to date ASAP because if he can hold those sort of performances on decent wages then he's a dead cert. No photos I'm afraid. Absolutely surrounded by Leeds fans in the main stand. Me677 22:36, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Craddock had an option in his contract which was taken, ergo he's signed up? I'll have a look for Brown tomorrow. He looked to be more of an Attacking Midfielder, I believe, but hard to keep track with 44 players in 90mins. Me677 22:50, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

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well done

		The Original Barnstar
		Your efforts in updating football aritlces with transfers and statistics is brilliant, I am very happy with this. Well done. The sunder king 11:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Just thanks for helping the Sunderland A.F.C. article. :). The sunder king 11:53, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Scarborough Athletic F.C.

I am going to have to leave it to you to revert - I am on my 3RR limit. Bridgeplayer 19:33, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, we need to talk some sense into this guy. But he just won't listen to reason. Is it you he's referring to when he says the "american"? Goodness me, as well as being unreasonable, he's clearly a xenophobe. Mattythewhite 19:36, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, looks like its me - it seems being American stops you commenting on football! Bridgeplayer 19:40, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I believe he/she is the blocked user User:Daddy Kindsoul anyway. - fchd 19:45, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Wow! How did you find this? Bridgeplayer 19:47, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

As we are, in the current sisuation with this article, we're all in a mess. I would like you and SalvoCalcio to go to the talk page, and each write why this info should be on the article, and to reach a compromose on what to do. Mattythewhite 19:39, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think there is anything to say that hasn't been said. Either we go with liquidation onwards or we open the door for as much past history as folks want to put in. We have a consensus so it is up now, to other editors to enforce it or allow this guy to force through his version. Bridgeplayer 19:46, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I think there is a consensus - apart from one user, who over a number of articles, has repeatedly pushed his/her point of view as the only correct one even when faced with verifiable information otherwise. Perhaps this calls for an admin... - fchd 19:58, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

I was thinking of the sock-puppet angle. - fchd 20:14, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

User:SalvoCalcio

Hey Matty, thanks for your message. Sorry I wasn't around to help, but, next time an edit war kicks off, or anything more alerting you to an affiliation between User:SalvoCalcio and a blocked sock happens, let me know asap and I'll do my best to deal with it. Best wishes, The Rambling Man 22:04, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Dean Keates

I believe (though it was now almost a month ago) that my intention was simply to undo the addition of an unfree image. The rest of the undo was probably an inadvertent mistake. Sorry about that. Pascal.Tesson 01:04, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Aaron O'Connor

Hi, sorted it now - there was a digit in the wrong place. I was quite shocked to find he'd played in the League.

Jimbo online 12:54, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Beavon and Phillips

Ok 'mate', what the hell are you playing at? Stuart Beavon is not a former midfielder who played for Northampton, he is a striker who plays for Weymouth. You added Brian Dutton, when Phillips is certainly more notable than him. I know Weymouth F.C. better than you. Don't act like you know more. Alexrushfear 14:16, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Austria national under-21 football team

A {{prod}} template has been added to the article Austria national under-21 football team, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but this article may not satisfy Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and the deletion notice explains why (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). You may contest the proposed deletion by removing the {{dated prod}} notice, but please explain why you disagree with the proposed deletion in your edit summary or on its talk page. Also, please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Even though removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, the article may still be deleted if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria or it can be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached. If you endorse deletion of the article, and you are the only person who has made substantial edits to the page, please tag it with {{db-author}}.  slυмgυм [ ←→ ] 20:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Just a formality, I might work on it myself in a day or two.  slυмgυм [ ←→ ] 20:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

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Barnstar

		Football Barnstar
		For all your unsung Gnomelike work on football articles, I, Dweller, award Mattythewhite the Football Barnstar. Congratulations! --Dweller 14:50, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

sorry from theartfulbadger

sorry, but i opened wikipedia one day, and even whilst not being logged in, it said that I iad new messages. aparrantly, you had acused me of vandalism.

i'm sorry for overreacting.

Tommy Smith

I've reverted the Liverpool player back to Tommy Smith (Liverpool footballer) and the Watford player back to Tommy Smith (Watford footballer). The fact is that the Liverpool player is a major player in the history of football and will always be associated with Liverpool FC, rather than with his date of birth. If you disagree with this, please discuss with me first. --BlackJack | ^talk page 20:46, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Can you please provide examples of the date of birth taking priority? In other projects on the site, the standard as such is to use location, club or nationality rather than any kind of birth identifier. Tommy Smith of Liverpool only played a couple of seasons for Swansea: the fact is that he is forever associated with Liverpool. I could understand a birth identifier if you had two of the same name who had both played for umpteen different clubs but that is not the case here. Best wishes to York City, by the way. I've been there several times over the years. --BlackJack | ^talk page 21:04, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Not so much a policy as a guideline around disambiguation. I've found that there are numerous articles about people called Tommy Smith and so there should be a disambiguation page, which I've now created, preferably using the most notable example as the default. In this case, the Liverpool footballer is easily the most notable example (given that Tommie Smith the athlete has a different spelling) and so the other articles should be disambiguated from him. --BlackJack | ^talk page 21:28, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

Dutts

Hi Matty, just wondering if I should think about updating Dutton's and Weymouth's pages to say he's not at Weymouth any more, as he hasn't played at all in our first 2 PSFs, and his name hasn't been listed in programmes as one of our players either. Alexrushfear 22:01, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

• There haven't been any statements or news reports mentioning him at all; only knew he was at York because of your article! I believe every single player's contract at Weymouth expired at the end of last season, as we didn't know what our financial situation would be come the close season, so as he's at York I can only assume it's because we haven't re-signed him. Might also be wanting to get far, far away from Wales- if you've not heard about it, then read [1] Alexrushfear 22:24, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

• "Former Weymouth defender"?! He only played about 10 minutes at centre back against Dagenham last year (before being sent off)! Ah well, I'll take him off the Weymouth players' list now. Alexrushfear 22:53, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

• Oooh, cheers Matty. Alexrushfear 23:03, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

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reply regarding sponsors

Historical Kits shows the full sponsors.. first brought in 1982, the providers i go by what is on the label of shirts infront of me--SalvoCalcio 08:37, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Billy Fenton

Hi, have a copy of the football league player records (1946-1998) book, so it's all in there. Am updating the Graham Fenton page, so just had a quick look at the other Fenton's in the book at same time. Then it was just a case of googling him to find a bit more. WikiGull 09:34, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Sydney FC players

Initial comment copied from User talk:Daniel. 10:15, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Hey. I am currently working on getting List of Sydney FC players to FL status, but have come accross some problems, mainly getting references for intenational caps. I've seen some of your outstanding work on Aussie football, and was wandering if you could give some help with this if you have the time. Thanks, Mattythewhite 21:12, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Ha ha, I was doing the same thing at User:Daniel/Sandbox/List of Sydney FC players :) Feel free to hack out any information you like from there and copy it over (just mention my name in the edit summary if it's a direct copy), and I'll try and get some stuff for the players section. Cheers, Daniel 23:53, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

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Copyright violation in Image:Emile heskey.jpg

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Copyright violation in Image:Dave jones.jpg

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Copyright violation in Image:Gareth ainsworth.jpg

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Please stop uploading other people's pictures!

Hi, I have to ask you to please stop uploading pictures taken by other people until you have a better understanding of Wikipedia's non-free content criteria. If you have any questions, you can ask at Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. Thank you. -- But|seriously|folks  21:45, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

A number of them were found on Flickr (with all rights reserved) and Getty Images. Also, on this page, they are listed as "Other photos" instead of "Photos by me". Others in "Other photos" belong to other people, even though you tagged them as {{PD-self}}. An example would be this one, which I have not deleted yet. -- But|seriously|folks  21:49, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

How are other people supposed to know which ones are accurately tagged as your own and which are other people's image which you have falsely tagged? What kind of camera do you use, by the way? -- But|seriously|folks  21:57, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Copyright doesn't work that way on Wikipedia. Once it's established that a user has been claiming other people's images as their own, all of that user's images are suspect. That's for the protection of Wikipedia. The last thing we need is infringement lawsuits like Youtube and the others. In any event, the York City images were taken with a DSC-P72, so I won't delete any more of those. If you used any other cameras, let me know. How about a Canon EOS D30? -- But|seriously|folks  22:10, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, deleted images can be undeleted. I'll undelete the DSC-P72 and EOS D30 images but delete the others, except for the ones up above under "Photos by me". Please try to be more precise with image tags in future as there are copyright issues involved, plus it's a bit more work for the admins if it's not done properly. Thanks. -- But|seriously|folks  22:54, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Also, your image page indicates that Image:James lloyd.jpg was scanned by you, but did you take the original photo? You can't license other people's photos even if you scan them in yourself. -- But|seriously|folks  22:57, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

It's a little bit more complicated for your mother's picture. She has to release the image under a license useable on Wikipedia, such as the GFDL. You should have her send an email to the OTRS system giving permission, and someone with OTRS privileges will leave a template on the image talk page documenting the license. Full instructions are at WP:COPYREQ. -- But|seriously|folks  23:02, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The same would apply to your brother's image of St. James Park. -- But|seriously|folks  23:03, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Yes, unfortunately it's complicated. Could you please list the images you took that I deleted? I can't check the exif data without undeleting them. Thanks. -- But|seriously|folks  23:06, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll take a look at those. -- But|seriously|folks  23:13, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

OK, I have restored most of them. There were a couple on your "maybe" list that looked like pro shots, so I left them deleted. Let me know if I delete any more you think are yours. -- But|seriously|folks  23:25, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Can you confirm that Image:Chris hackett.jpg is yours? Excellent shot if so. -- But|seriously|folks  23:32, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Please take a look at #7 on this page. Are they using your photo or does this mean that some of the EOS D30 images are not yours?

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours in accordance with Wikipedia's blocking policy for for uploading other people's images with false claims of ownership, and for continuing to assert ownership of other's images when an admin gave you the opportunity to save images you actually took yourself. More specific details can be found here. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make constructive contributions. If you believe this block is unjustified, you may contest the block by adding the text {{unblock|your reason here}} below. seriously

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Mattythewhite (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

I hardly see why blocking me will help or what point it will prove. You could have simply asked me to stop or given me some sort of a warning. If you see the majority of my edits you will see I make good contributions to and am a sensible user of Wikipedia who generally goes by the rules. And I don't see anything about adding incorrectly tagged images on Wikipedia:Blocking policy.

Decline reason:

Blocking you will prevent you from continuing to violate the image use policy. You have had plenty of warnings, just scroll up. We do not tolerate copyright violations. — Sandstein 20:48, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

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If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

Oh, and why are you deleting User:Dashwortley's images? On Daniel Parslow. Whats wrong with his? What has he done wrong? Mattythewhite 20:39, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

And is there no sort of way of just blocking me from uploading images? Would seem a lot more sensible. Mattythewhite 20:57, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, you have demonstrated that your GFDL tags cannot be relied on. Even after it came to light that many of "your" images were not actually yours, and I gave you an opportunity to specify which images were in fact yours so they would not be deleted, you continued to give inaccurate ownership information. Giving you every benefit of the doubt, the best that can be said is that you have no idea which images were taken by you and which were taken by others. This is a clear violation of WP:C, which is a blockable offence. Under the circumstances, you must be blocked to prevent you from uploading further images in the short term, and in the hope that you will realize that Wikipedia's copyright and image policies are to be taken seriously by all of us in the long term. And Dashwortley's image was deleted because the GFDL tag was applied by you, not Dashwortley. -- But|seriously|folks  21:16, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

how to create page

how do you create a new page

Nick Bussey

I have just created an article on an English goalkeeper called Nick Bussey, who plays for Kettering town F.C. Is there anyway you think I can improve it? The sunder king 14:30, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Is there an actual rule on wikipedia which prohibits articles on non-professional league players, I mean many non league players are notable and he does have a history behind him of playing for other clubs, just to say thanks. The sunder king 14:43, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

He has 144,000 google hits, many of them being related to him. Plenty of news and sports stuff on him. The sunder king 14:45, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Copyright violation in Image:David mcgurk7.jpg

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Copyright violation in Image:Chris blackburn.jpg

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Copyright violation in Image:Michael twiss.jpg

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Copyright violation in Image:Danny carlton.jpg

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To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Image:Danny carlton.jpg, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. --Android Mouse Bot 2 21:03, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Copyright violation in Image:Bryan stewart.jpg

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To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting Image:Bryan stewart.jpg, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. --Android Mouse Bot 2 21:03, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Mark Danks

Was it you who prevented the above article from being speedied? If so, excellent catch. (Even though I'm not exactly what you'd call an inclusionist). Robotforaday 22:58, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Danny Parslow

Cheers for letting me know-I've uploaded it again and added it to the page. Dashwortley 21:48, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Tommy Smith

I note you had a bit of a chat about it with BlackJack (talk · contribs) - you might be interested in the proposed move I have made at Talk:Tommy Smith as a result. Qwghlm 00:21, 24 July 2007 (UTC)