User talk:Jhortman/Archive 2

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Jhortman. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Orphaned non-free image File:Ofltc logo.jpg

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. The Haz _talk 03:31, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

No problem with this, since you converted the image to SVG. -Jhortman (talk) 03:39, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Conversion to Vector

I definitely don't mind converting, but many times one already exists. For the one mentioned, they had a pdf on the website with the vector image already in it. That tends to make things easier. So if you find a pdf with the logo, zoom in on it to see if it's a raster or vector (if it's pixelated on zoom or not). If you get me the PDFs, I can take the logos out instantly. The Haz _talk 04:18, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

And to make it clear, I do enjoy converting raster to vector so I will try my hand at a few. Thanks for pointing them out! The Haz _talk 04:41, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Altamaha Tech logo.jpg

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. The Haz _talk 05:12, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Atc logo.jpg

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. The Haz _talk 05:17, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

I found all three Atlanta Tech logos in this one file (hidden): http://www.atlantatech.edu/pdfs/ATCStrictlyBusiness.pdf. Therefore I extracted the standard logo, with the text to the side. The Haz _talk 05:29, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Atlanta Tech logo.gif

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Orphaned non-free image File:MGTC logo.jpg

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Orphaned non-free image File:Cgtc main logo.jpg

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Orphaned non-free image File:WGTC logo.gif

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Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. The Haz _talk 08:58, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:WGTC seal.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:WGTC seal.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Jhortman (talk) 00:14, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

January 2012 Newsletter for WikiProject United States and supported projects

The January 2012 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

 
--Kumi-Taskbot (talk) 19:26, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Barnstar

		The Original Barnstar
		This barnstar is awarded to everyone who - whatever their opinion - contributed to the discussion about Wikipedia and SOPA. Thank you for being a part of the discussion. Presented by the Wikimedia Foundation.

Translation?

Hi Jhortman, I found your name on the list of Wikipedians with a userbox that said they know Hawaiian. I'm working on Alexis Bachelot right now, and in one part of the article I list a couple books that he wrote in Hawaiian. I tried to add what I thought were translations from the source I used, but I'm not sure if they were the translations/were correct. Would you be able to tell me what "O ke Ao Ana Kristiano" or "He Olelo Hoonaau" mean in Hawaiian? Thanks, Mark Arsten (talk) 06:38, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

First, a disclaimer: my Hawaiian is very broken, but I believe those phrases mean something approximating the following:

"O Ke A'o Ana Kristiano" - "Doctrine/instruction of the sufficient/satisfied Christian." (The apostrophe in the a'o is important; without the apostrophe, ao means "enlightened" or "the light." With the apostrophe, a'o means "doctrine" or "instruction.")

"He Ōlelo Ho'ona'auao" - "A Language education," or possibly "A statement on education."

Hope this helps -Jhortman (talk) 13:37, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

Excellent, thanks for your help. There aren't many people who know Hawaiian around here, glad that I found you. Mark Arsten (talk) 16:16, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject College football

Thanks for signing up on the project participant list. Glad to have you on board. Jweiss11 (talk) 10:31, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

April 2012

Thank you for your contributions. Please remember to mark your edits, such as your recent edits to Georgia Bulldogs football, as "minor" only if they truly are minor edits. In accordance with Help:Minor edit, a minor edit is one that the editor believes requires no review and could never be the subject of a dispute. Minor edits consist of things such as typographical corrections, formatting changes, or rearrangement of text without modification of content. Additionally, the reversion of clear-cut vandalism and test edits may be labeled "minor". Thank you. Also applicable to Ole Miss Rebels football, LSU Tigers football, Kentucky Wildcats football, and Tennessee Volunteers football. This Retired Numbers graphic display is not part of the WP:CFB style guide, and should be addressed there. No article other than the ones you have edited have graphic displays of retired jersey numbers, and I personally think the large graphics detract from the article rather than add to them. The appropriate location for that discussion is at the WikiProject page, however. I welcome a discussion at that page, if you'd like to open the discussion of this template there. Jhortman (talk) 05:53, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

• You are wrong This Retired Numbers graphic display is part of the WP:CFB style guide, and should be addressed there. IE the LA Dodgers, all MLB and NFL use this This Retired Numbers graphic display is not part of the WP:CFB style guide, and should be addressed there. I think you should have asked the community on the talk page and not taken it on yourself and removed them. I worked very hard on them so I am replacing them. It would be okay if the group decide that they are distracting, I think they all look nice and professional.

Pee Wee Reese SS, Coach July 1, 1984	Tommy Lasorda P, MGR, GM August 15, 1997	Duke Snider OF July 6, 1980	Jim Gilliam 2B, 3B, Coach October 10, 1978	Don Sutton P August 14, 1998
Walter Alston MGR June 5, 1977	Sandy Koufax P June 4, 1972	Roy Campanella C June 4, 1972	Jackie Robinson 2B June 4, 1972	Don Drysdale P July 1, 1984

See also: List of Major League Baseball retired numbers

— Preceding unsigned comment added by MDSanker (talk • contribs)

I'm not going to get into an edit war with you. "I worked really hard on these" is not enough justification for keeping a template. Also, the Be Bold, Revert, Discuss policy is a long-established Wikipedia policy, and applies in this case. The WP:CFB talk page is the appropriate place for this discussion. -Jhortman (talk) 17:34, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

I have started a discussion to reach a consensus within the community here. I welcome your input as part of that discussion. -Jhortman (talk) 18:05, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

• • Hey look I am sure you think your way is the only way of doing things. However I see the need for the graphics for the players numbers to stand out on the page I can make them smaller if that will help you. I am using the same png files that the MLB NBA and NFL use so it may be your computer. Until we have a vote please stop deleting my contributions. I will update the photos in a smaller size. This is “not a WAR” as you seem to think. I can change the graphics to a plane one with no stitching and bumps on the football’s or even upload them as a jpeg. MDSanker 18:12, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

• Please do not continue to revert back to a previous version of these pages until this discussion I just opened at the College Football WikiProject page has been completed. Wikipedia's policy is to be bold in your edits, and then if another editor reverts your edits, open a discussion and reach a community consensus before proceeding. Continued reversion of another editor's reverts without discussion is considered edit warring. I understand that you feel your edits are valid and should remain in the article, and that's why I have opened the discussion for the larger CFB community to help settle this question. You should add your opinion to the discussion at that page. (Also, your edits have not been deleted; they are preserved in Wikipedia's edit history and can be restored if the consensus is to keep your graphical templates.) -Jhortman (talk) 18:27, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

• Will do that is fair. MDSanker 18:37, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Seal of Georgia (U.S. state)

Saw your edits on the Seal. You were quite right about the extra Talmadge language. But I was not aware that Georgia had an "official" Coat of Arms. That would take an act of the legislature, and I'm not aware of them having ever done that. Wiki says that eighteen states have, but Georgia isn't one of them. So if Georgia has recently adopted a coat of arms, you might want to reference that. Otherwise, it might be best to add language to differentiate between a simple heraldic element (if that is even important) and an official symbol. Gulbenk (talk) 00:35, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for your question and discussion. The Georgia coat of arms is specifically referred to at this link (New Georgia Encyclopedia) and this link (DLG). I couldn't find any references that discuss the specific use of the coat of arms, however, other than mandating that it should be included in the State Flag from 1902, so I didn't include any in the Seal article. (I'm not sure a reference regarding the use of the arms on the flag would fit into an article about the seal, other than a point of trivia, which is discouraged.) I'd be open to any suggestions, though. -Jhortman (talk) 02:17, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
  • I have made a few edits in the "History and Lore" section to discuss the coat of arms statute, since there was a mention of the flag in that location already. -Jhortman (talk) 02:30, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
    • That is why I enjoy doing this. I am always learning something new. You may have hit on something. It appears that the Legislature mandated the inclusion of the coat of arms (in 1902) without making the coat of arms "official". If they had designated an "official" coat of arms, the enacting legislation would have contained a specific definition/desciption of the coat of arms. That would have eliminated the resulting "interpretation" of the color and so forth. They have enacted very specific legislation concerning the state seal...on several occasions. Would you consider dropping the "official" wording in your lead, and then expanding on the strange history of the coat of arms under "lore". I think it would be a good addition. Who knows, if a State Legislator sees the reference, we might end up with an "official" coat of arms. Gulbenk (talk) 03:35, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

I have dropped the word "official," as you suggest, since I agree that's appropriate. I think I'm going to dig for some more references, though, about the historical usage/ambiguity of the coat of arms before I do any more edits expanding on it. Feel free to make changes yourself, though, if you'd like. -Jhortman (talk) 03:49, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

• I think it appropriate that you take the lead on this, since you've gone this far. It would be interesting to see what you manage to dig up. You might run into conflicting information. I noticed a few (subtle) inaccuracies in the New Georgia Encyclopedia article on the flag, which concerns me since I use that source quite often. Perhaps, like wikipedia, it depends on the editor. Gulbenk (talk) 04:02, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Florida-Georgia team season links

Hey, Jhortman. Hope you're doing well. I've been following your recent diffs on the article, and I thank you for your various improvements. Regarding the piped team season links (e.g. 1980 Florida Gators . . . the Gators team season links are used consistently throughout the better written Gators football articles as a convenient way to quickly link to the individual team season articles. The phrasing of the piped link, including the year in the link display, is to differentiate one team season link from another, making it obvious to the reader that we have not merely linked to "Florida Gators" or Florida Gators football" 40 times in he same article. The reason for it may not have been immediately apparent, but there is some logic to it. Cheers, and good luck to your Dawgs in Jax. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 19:56, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for the explanation, Dirtlawyer1. Sorry if my edit summary sounded kind of confrontational. We'll see if we can't at least give your guys a CBS-worthy game down there! -Jhortman (talk) 20:00, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

No worries—I did not perceive your summary as confrontational at all, Jhortman. As for this year's game, I'll gladly accept any win any way the Gators can get it, especially with their currently impotent passing game. The Gators are currently way, way over-rated at No. 3, and the Dawgs should match up well if they bring their A game. As for Muschamp, he's not the most articulate coach the Gators have ever had, but I think your UGA alumnus has done a great job of turning it around the last two seasons. I expect they will be worthy of a major bowl (probably not BCS) by the end of the season, but the Gators' next two games (USC and UGA) will tell the tale. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:15, 19 October 2012 (UTC)

Followup RFC to WP:RFC/AAT now in community feedback phase

Hello. As a participant in Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Abortion article titles, you may wish to register an opinion on its followup RFC, Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Abortion advocacy movement coverage, which is now in its community feedback phase. Please note that WP:RFC/AAMC is not simply a repeat of WP:RFC/AAT, and is attempting to achieve better results by asking a more narrowly-focused, policy-based question of the community. Assumptions based on the previous RFC should be discarded before participation, particularly the assumption that Wikipedia has or inherently needs to have articles covering generalized perspective on each side of abortion advocacy, and that what we are trying to do is come up with labels for that. Thanks! —chaos5023 20:29, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Florida Gators football: "State Championships"

Your objective, third-party opinion is hereby requested: Talk:Florida Gators football#"State Championships". Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:27, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Sarasomia

Hello, just letting you know I removed the prod from the above article as I believe it to be notable. Thank you. Rotten regard Softnow 20:36, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for letting me know. I've moved the request to an AfD. -Jhortman (talk) 20:58, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Prod also removed from Australians in Japan, I think given the number of these type of articles an AfD would be more apt. Rotten regard Softnow 20:40, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Also moved to AfD for discussion. -Jhortman (talk) 20:58, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello me again. I removed the prod from Selling Houses Australia as it has won awards, I've added refs. Rotten regard Softnow 00:14, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Works for me. -Jhortman (talk) 03:00, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

Upper Wharfedale Fell Rescue Association

Hello again, I removed the prod from the above article as after doing a news archive search I believe they may be notable, also added a couple of refs. Thank you. Rotten regard (talk) 22:05, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia Loves Libraries Seattle

Decemmber 8 - Wikipedia Loves Libraries Seattle - You're invited

Seattle Public Library

Date Saturday, December 8, 2012 Time 10 a.m. – 3 p.m. Location Seattle Public Library Meeting Room 1 on Level 4, Central Library, 1000 4th Avenue, Seattle WA, 98104 Event An editathon on Seattle-related Wikipedia articles with Wikipedia tutorials and Librarian assistance on hand. Hashtag #wikiloveslib or #glamwiki. Registration http://wll-seattle.eventbrite.com or use on-wiki regsistration. Yours, Maximilianklein (talk) 03:54, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Georgia Bulldogs football

JH, there have a been several historically inaccurate edits regarding claimed MNCs to the Georgia Bulldogs football page by an IP user over the past several days, and I have reverted them. Given my close association with Florida Gators topics, I am afraid that at some point this will devolve into the usual fanboy accusations. I'm hoping that you get his message and take charge of the situation. Regards, Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:21, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. I've been on a little wiki vacation, but I'll look into it. -Jhortman (talk) 18:08, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Mgc logo.png)

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Orphaned non-free media (File:MGC Athletics.jpg)

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This and That

The world needs editors too. Thank you for your time.

Orphaned non-free media (File:Mgc logo.png)

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Merging of Augusta State University into Georgia Regents University history

What're you thoughts? It doesn't look like the topic is getting much play, but I'm for it, for obvious reasons. I'm working on finding credible sources to help expand/properly cite the history section pertaining to GHSU/MCG. GRUcrule (talk) 19:36, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm having a brain fart at the moment, because I can't find the original page where I objected to the merge in the first place. (It doesn't seem to be on the Talk:Georgia Regents University page, which is where I should have put it.) Most of the recent consolidations in the University System of Georgia have been just that... consolidations of two former institutions into one new institution. This is separate from a merger, where one school is subsumed into another. In the case of consolidation, if the colleges in question have their own pages, I think it's usually best to preserve the old pages with the closing date of the school listed and then create a new page for the new school in question. This is how University of North Georgia and Middle Georgia State College have been handled. With GRU, however, it's definitely a different animal. The question is where the line between "merger" and "consolidation" is, and it's not clearly defined. I can see both sides of the argument, and more importantly, I don't see any sources that clearly define it as one or the other. In such cases, it's usually better to get opinions from multiple veteran Wikipedia editors and reach a consensus. -Jhortman (talk) 20:24, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

My apologies for the VERY late reply - since we've been consolidated, I've been adjusting and things have been slipping through the cracks (such as, well, this...). I agree with most of what you said, and can certainly understand the idea of keeping the Augusta State University page separate. If that were the case, then I'd be more than happy to go in and add a more detailed history of Georgia Regents University (cited, of course) since I have access to our historians and they could give some of the high points. It appears the plan moving forward is for GRU to operate with the history of the institution as a combined history of the two consolidated/merged institutions before it. I don't know if this helps at all or not, but figured I'd mention it. One thought I just had (and it could be my fault for initiating this...), but the former GHSU page (the name the Medical College of Georgia was changed to pre-consolidation) doesn't exist - because it became the basis for the current GRU page. Thanks! GRUcrule (talk) 18:46, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I think the best way to handle it, since the GHSU page was already moved directly to the GRU page and Augusta State has their own (preserved) page, is to leave it in that format. The Augusta State page can document Augusta State before it was merged, and the GRU page can document both GRU and the history of MCG/GHSU. Unless someone else thinks it's necessary, I don't see a need to create an entirely new page for GHSU if it doesn't already exist. My primary concern was not removing the historical content from the Augusta State page. I think you're doing a great job, by the way! Jhortman (talk) 18:51, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Sounds good to me! I can get started on some text to place in the history section on the GRU page. I do think if that's the decision that something should link to the Augusta State page and reference it as such - I can the text covers more Medical College of Georgia history, as there is no page. And, thank you! GRUcrule (talk) 18:56, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

I just changed the tags to point to the Augusta State article. I'm about to go through and change all the references at the ASU article back to ASU, as well. (Not sure why I didn't do that before.) Jhortman (talk) 19:10, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Sweet. I'm focusing on the Ricardo Azziz page right now, as its the current President and the information on the page is outdated - in fact, I just revoked an edit that was made without citing. If you get a spare moment sometime, please feel free to check behind me. I'll be making a few updates to the page in the coming days, I think. If I come across any ASU references that are off, I'll swap 'em back to the page. Thanks! GRUcrule (talk) 20:29, 6 August 2013 (UTC)

Ricardo Azziz

Hey, just wanted to give you a heads-up that I've done some extensive work on the Ricardo Azziz page in the past month, and if you get a spare minute, I'd appreciate a look-over. Just trying to keep an admin in the loop since I'm doing the neutrality dance every time I edit one of these...thanks! GRUcrule (talk) 15:37, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm not an admin, just an interested fellow editor. :-) But I'd be happy to give it a lookover. -Jhortman (talk) 14:31, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

I've reviewed the article, and have the following thoughts:

1. I think the biggest issue is that, in general, the article reads much like a CV or PR-type piece. You've referenced it well, which is good, but the article really needs some coverage of his tenure as President. How did he handle controversy surrounding the GHSU/GRU change? What things has he been criticized for? I notice that some information in this regard has been deleted from the article. The edits I saw probably needed to be deleted under BLP guidelines, but for complete coverage of the subject, it should be introduced in a NPOV (and, of course, referenced) way.
2. There's also not any discussion of any coverage he may have received at any of his previous jobs. I would think that high-profile jobs at Cedars-Sinai, the FDA, and the NIH would possibly have merited press coverage in the past (both positive and negative). It would be nice to see some more of that. From this perspective, overall general expansion of the article would be nice.
3. In the descriptions for the pictures of Dr. Azziz that you uploaded, you noted that they have been "Approved by the Georgia Regents University Office of Communications and Marketing." Such statements are rarely challenged, but in case it is, you should have some documentation you can provide from someone at GRU who has the authority to make that statement granting that approval. (That might be you... I don't know. The bottom line is that any "approvals" for release of a picture that would normally be copyrighted should have documentation to back it up in case it is challenged.)

Overall, it looks like a very good start. -Jhortman (talk) 18:18, 4 September 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay in responding! I have days at the office when I can't get to this because other things crop up...ugh. This feedback is quite helpful - I was running into writer's block and was sick of looking at the article, so now I have a few places to really ramp up the coverage. Yeah, there were a few vandalisms of the page, and that likely stemmed from the GHSU-ASU consolidation backlash from the community.
I'm not sure I'm the best to handle his tenure as President in a non-biased way...let's just say I know he knows about this page. I can do my best, and then give you a heads up when I'm done so I can have some review. But all in all, he's the boss of my boss' boss...if that makes sense. So this could get tricky. Thoughts? GRUcrule (talk) 13:16, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

No worries... there's no time limit on these things. :-) If you're uncomfortable adding criticism or negative-sounding information about Dr. Azziz due to your job, then you shouldn't. Others can add that information. As long as you don't try to keep properly-sourced, NPOV criticism out of the article, I don't see any issue there. I won't be able to do much this week on it due to my schedule, but I can try to do some research and add some balanced information myself at a later time. Don't be surprised if someone tags it with {{undue}} or {{autobiography}} before it's expanded, though. (That's not the end of the world if they do... just saying that's a possibility. There's usually more leeway given to WP:BLP pages, though.) -Jhortman (talk) 14:05, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Makes sense. Of course I'll do my best to properly source any information I add - I'll give it a go this week and then it can be improved from there. The news around here will definitely have some coverage, it'll be more of a matter of tracking down the correct articles and going from there, I think. Maybe I'll give you enough of a base to continue to build from? My edits should come primarily in the next couple of days, as my schedule clumps up a bit later this week. I can leave some of the negative stuff out, take a screenshot, and make the higher-ups happy...before someone else puts that in there. That might be the best way out of this, and if I'm alerting you to it, then I'm certainly not hiding that. I won't omit anything blatant, but I'll focus more on the "This happened" then the analysis of what actions took place. GRUcrule (talk) 15:25, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

I've made some edits, adding the section. I've been pulling together some information/sources on the consolidation process - I'm thinking it might be easier just to expand the section on the Georgia Regents University page and link the Azziz page to that, with a bit of commentary on Azziz's role (more media-related than anything else, from what I've gathered) on the Azziz page underneath "Presidency" section. Thoughts? GRUcrule (talk) 15:27, 12 September 2013 (UTC)

Need feedback - I'm under pressure to make a few more edits on this page, now. I'd rather have somebody (I've pinged another editor, but haven't heard back for a few days now) give it a once-over before I add anything else. If you have five minutes, could you take a look? Thanks for all your help! GRUcrule (talk) 20:08, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

I'll be glad to look at it again... anything in particular you're worried about? -Jhortman (talk) 17:04, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

After a quick look, I think it's pretty much fine. I still don't see any mention of controversies or criticism that has been directed at him over his career, which might be a problem to someone at some point. I've not done any work to find them and put them in the article myself, though, which I'd offered to do, so I'll see if I can't find some time to do that. Also, the first paragraph of the "Education" section is not referenced. I changed the wording in that paragraph, purely from a grammar and wikilink perspective, though. None of the other references in that section give the information that you added, so it would be helpful if that information could be referenced somewhere. Other than those two items, though, I think it looks good. -Jhortman (talk) 17:17, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Awesome - I appreciate that feedback and will find that source. If you Google "Georgia Regents University consolidation" I bet you can find plenty of it. Especially if you include "Augusta, Georgia" in the search, and stories by WXFG, WRDW, and the Augusta Chronicle should come up. If someone else adds it, it gives me a cover so I'm not on the hook with the subject of the article, though I'd be happy to point to sources for relevant information. GRUcrule (talk) 18:41, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

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Hello again!

Just wanted to drop you a note asking for your feedback on something I've posted to the Georgia Regents University talk page. If you have a spare moment, it'd be appreciated - thanks! GRUcrule (talk) 14:51, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

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This is an archive of past discussions with User:Jhortman. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2