User talk:HkCaGu/Archive 2013 Jul-Dec

This is an archive of past discussions with User:HkCaGu. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

China Eastern flights from Wuhan to San Francisco

Can you take a look at this? A user added San Francisco as a destination for Wuhan (it is the same plane but the flight stops in Shanghai, which is a domestic hub). Do you know if these kind of "directs" be included like Air Canada's flights to Europe/Asia/Australia that stop at a hub or Air India's ORD-DEL-HYD, EWR-BOM-AMD, JFK-DEL-BOM segment? 68.119.73.36 (talk) 02:29, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

It can arguably be added. WUH-PVG is otherwise served only by A319/320/321s and B737s, so an A330 that continues to SFO is quite exceptional. Also, PVG does not separate into international versus domestic in terms of gates (unlike PEK). They simply load/unload planes on different floors, domestic versus international. This is like YYZ/YVR/YUL where they have swing gates between international and domestic. HkCaGu (talk) 03:33, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Here's the source stating that it is a legit direct flight (http://www.echinacities.com/news/Wuhan-San-Francisco-Flight-Opens-April-26). It states that passengers do not need to transfer or get off the plane at PVG. It uses a single flight number (MU589/590) and both segments uses Airbus A330. I readded it to the respective articles (but the SFO addition will be reverted somehow). 68.119.73.36 (talk) 04:44, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

MU589/590 operates a A330 on WUH-PVG and PVG-SFO but passengers can also make connections from WUH to SFO (flying on different MU flights) or can remain on the one-stop flight. PVG is the main and biggest hub for China Eastern. It is most likely the aircraft is the same but sometimes it is not. 68.119.73.36 (talk) 05:49, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure those sources can be relied on. MU is indeed selling seats on the A330 for WUH-PVG alone, so I can't believe how eastbound passengers can avoid getting off the plane to go through inspection to exit China and especially when coming back westbound to enter China at PVG. HkCaGu (talk) 19:59, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

It seems to me that WUH and CKG should not be listed as destinations even they are considered as "extensions". The government of Wuhan and Chongqing paid China Eastern huge chunk of subsidies for those meaningless extensions, except looking good and having wide-body jets on the domestic routes. The immigration checkpoint is at PVG anyway. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.117.88.8 (talk) 04:03, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Hi HKCAGU, "However at a hub, continuation is meaningless: many planes come in, many fly out. AA does a lot of that at DFW" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.170.79.219 (talk) 05:58, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

To the IP, please see the editing history at the respective SFO and LAX articles. An Airbus A330 under the same flight numbers carries passengers from CGK/WUH to LAX/SFO via PVG. At PVG, domestic and international gates are not separated so therefore these flights can constitute as genuine direct flights (i.e. AC flights from YUL to Europe via YYZ; AI flights from US to destinations beyond India via DEL/BOM). The only time these direct flights cannot be listed are timetable direct flights (i.e. DL thru hub NRT flights and flights that stop at PEK where dom/intl gates are separated). If you have any disagreements please take to WT:AIRPORTS. Also, WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT states that "via" should not be used. Snoozlepet (talk) 07:29, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

It may be just good-looking to fly A330 domestically, but that's still more "realistic" a direct flight than AA/DL/UA/US changing gauge at domestic gateways. HkCaGu (talk) 07:59, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Okay, maybe you are right in that it looks a little "direct". But for China, the only genuine reason behind such sudden booming of odd "extensions" in recent couple of years is that provincial/local government (e.g. Wuhan, Chongqing, Qingdao (TAO-PVG-SFO), Dalian (HU 495/496 DLC-PEK-SEA A332), Xi'an (also HU 495/496 XIY-PEK-SEA A332) http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CHH495) showcasing their feat and political might by paying heavily to whatever Chinese carriers that can change the domestic flight into an extension of the trans-pacific flight. Note that all these flights are operated by Chinese carriers and "extended" to secondary cities from their hubs (PEK or PVG), which makes the case different from LH's TAO-SHE-FRA (foreign carrier extension in China so it is passenger/demand driven) or 3U's CTU-SHE-YVR (CTU is 3U's hub). I guess you sort of acknowledged this under another thread this talk page. Under the existing criteria, CA 986 to CKG is not direct while MU 586 to CKG is. The difference is the change of gate or not. However, passengers continuing to CKG (usually <5%) have to go through exactly the same immigration clearance at PEK and PVG respectively. Both PEK-CKG and PVG-CKG are domestic segments with 95%+ (from IATA record) domestic passengers. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.170.79.219 (talk) 08:47, 15 November 2013 (UTC)

Salt Lake City International Airport lounge edit.

This is an appropriate edit considering many articles on airports have info like this ex: McCarran International Airport TurfToe11 (talk) 06:45, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Jonathan Yip sock

2 more sock IPs of Jonathan Yip have struck again. This time, they added that South African Airways will be starting nonstop flights to LAX and MIA in January 2014 (which the source provided says nothing about the airline announcing the route, the source says the airline launched Beijing but no flights to US). Snoozlepet (talk) 05:41, 7 July 2013 (UTC)

airlineroute.net

I've got myself into a edit war on whether airlineroute.net should be used and have maxed out on 3RR. An editor keeps insisting on using those sources instead of the news articles over at Addis Ababa Bole International Airport, your contribution and assistance at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Airports#Addis_Ababa_Bole_International_Airport would be appreciated. Sb617 (Talk) 23:51, 20 July 2013 (UTC)

July 2013

I didn't vandalize Wikipedia! Please stop your disruptive editing. If you continue to vandalize Wikipedia, as you did at Soekarno–Hatta International Airport, you may be blocked from editing. Thoriq Azka Rahmat (talk) 14:14, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

You certainly did! And did it again! HkCaGu (talk) 15:51, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, HkCaGu. You have new messages at Connormah's talk page.
Message added 17:21, 23 July 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

– Connormah (talk) 17:21, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Philipthesecond

Thanks for the head's up. Tarl.Neustaedter (talk) 17:30, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

India Statistics Vandal

Protected them. I'm going with six months for each one now. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 14:56, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

July 2013

What happen to your mind? All my edit you delete!!!!!! If this happen again, I will tell to the administrator to remove you from WikiProject Airlines and to BLOCK YOU FROM EDITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now I will ask the owner of this photos AND I will upload again this photos!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thoriq Dhiyaan Azka Rahmat (talk) 14:54, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

I explained my every edit. You didn't. And you dare "warn" me? You're already breaking rules by creating a new account. HkCaGu (talk) 15:10, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

FYI: WP:ANI § User:Thoriq Dhiyaan Azka Rahmat. —[AlanM1(talk)]— 21:47, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Reckless edit on Philippine Airlines destinations

Hi. On 19 July 2013, 18:15, you edited the Philippine Airlines destinations removing the "speculated destinations". These destinations have been previously served by PAL and were part of the "Terminated destinations" section of the article. You did not place these destinations on that section thereof after removing them from the destinations section. What you did was very irresponsible and just outright ignorant.

We demand that you replace these cities in the "terminated destinations" section as well as their respective references which were there prior to being added to the destinations section of the article.

Jacktheladz (talk) 15:42, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

I simply reverted edits by a known vandal I have encountered elsewhere. You cannot make me responsible for the article's previous shortcomings. Wikipedia is a place where everyone voluntarily contributes. You have no rights to speak as "we" and demand I do something where you are not prevented to do the same. HkCaGu (talk) 16:01, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

Multi-airport Cities

I added some airport names to clarify airport of operation in many cases of multi-airport cities in the article for Kuwait International Airport. However, you undid my changes and commented by saying:

per long standing wp:airport practices, these are not multi airport cities.

The changes were for airports in Abu Dhabi, Frankfurt and Kuala Lumpur. I would like you to clarify couple of points:

1. Could you please provide me with a link to the long standing wp:airport practices you mentioned? The only thing I found was Wikipedia:WikiProject Airports/page content which explains the body of an airport article. No where in this article it says that the three cities mentioned above are not multi-airport cities.

2. How did you know that these airports are not multi-airport cities? What are your sources? As far as I know, Abu Dhabi has two airports with scheduled operations, Abu Dhabi International Airport (AUH) and Bateen Airport (AZI). Frankfurt also is served by Main International Airport (FRA) and Hahn Airport (HHN), whereas Kuala Lumpur is served by the International Airport (KUL) and Sultan Abdul Aziz Shah Airport (SZB). Leading schedule data provider OAG lists these airports as mutli-airport cities. You can try that on this link: http://www.oag.com/Travel-Tools/Where-Can-Fly-Direct . Just enter the city name in the From box, and it will asks you to choose all or a specific airport of the city. Another schedule data provider, Innovata, treats these three cities in the same way as is shown in its affiliate site quicktrip.com . Amadeus, the famous global travel distribution solutions provider, does the same with these cities as shown in its website amadeus.net . I believe that all these sources, and more, are taking the multi-airport city definition from IATA which defines such things to harmonize reservation systems globally. Having said all of that, do you agree that the three cities mentioned are multi-airport cities?

Many thanks for your kind consideration. Imdashti (talk) 11:22, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Just look at destination listings containing these cities and how they're treated. And also WT:AIRPORT archives. We've had discussion that ruled out Hahn as Frankfurt. And "Main" isn't even an English word or used to describe the airport. Any issues you have should be brought to WT:AIRPORT. HkCaGu (talk) 14:06, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

Let's take the case of Bateen Airport in Abu Dhabi as an example. This airport is in the heart of Abu Dhabi and is only 10km away from the city centre, whereas the bigger International Airport is 29km away. So is it logical to link the International Airport with Abu Dhabi, but not Bateen? Further, Sultan Abdul Aziz Shah Airport is only 15km from Kuala Luumpur city centre. The International Airport is about 43km away. So which one is more than the other as a Kuala Lumpur airport? Judging these two cases by the case of Hahn Airport is not rational. Now coming to the Frankfurt airports. I know that "Main" is not an English name. I know that it is the name of the principal river running through Frankfurt north of the International Airport. "Main" is part of the airport's long name, and was used in many cases such as in the case of naming the airbase located there. As for Hahn, I know that it is 103km from Frankfurt city centre, but what distance is regarded as too far? 50km? 70km? 100km? How about Sharjah Airport which is only 22km from Dubai city centre? Is it one of Dubai's airports? Or, does it belong to Sharjah only? I will raise the case for multi-airport cities again in WT:AIRPORT to reach a better consensus in this matter. Imdashti (talk) 20:57, 8 August 2013 (UTC)

If you want to gain consensus for your position, which is reasonable in my opinion, you would be far better off discussing it on the appropriate article discussion pages. Neither this talk page nor the airport discussion page will get you very far. AfricaTanz (talk) 10:10, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Missing Kenya Airways destinations at Jomo Kenyatta International Airport

I was wondering if you can take a look at this page. A couple of Kenya Airways destinations have been removed and the list is limited to nonstop only. Also, there is a discussion at WT:AIRPORTS regarding the use of flightmapper.net. 68.119.73.36 (talk) 01:26, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

LTA for Airport Vandal

Perhaps a long term abuse report should be filed for the airport vandal. It would help unacquainted admins to identify the vandal's traits. I haven't reviewed the history to know if it qualifies, but you may know from your experience. Keep me posted if you file one. -- Mufka ^(u) ^(t) ^(c) 13:46, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

August 2013

Hi HkCaGu!

If what I do is wrong, tell me what is that, because I have some references on my edit

Thanks, Muhammad Ibrahim Ahmad (talk) 17:47, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

I've already told you on your talk page. You have to understand what WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT requires (a firm date, referenced or not) and know why others revert your edits (explained in edit summary). HkCaGu (talk) 17:49, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I know and I did learn the WP:AIRPORT-CONTENT but in the references there is no date that shows exact date when that airline will fly, so what I'll do? I want to do some edits. Muhammad Ibrahim Ahmad (talk) 08:56, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

It's simple, then you cannot add such destination. Wait until there's a source containing a date, or the flight appearing on a schedule. HkCaGu (talk) 14:11, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

Thank you for correcting my mistakes! AndyHe829 (talk) 13:30, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Airport naming

Thanks for the clarification on the airport naming but I think there is a slight problem. If the charts list the served cities then Frankfurt-Hahn must be named as "Kirchberg" as this is the nearest - albeit small - town to the airport. Hahn is actually a village with less than 150 inhabitants. If you follow the logic that Hahn needs to stay Hahn then Beauvais has to be renamed "Tillé" as Tillé is the village where the airport is located, similar to Hahn. I hope you understand what I mean, the naming is quite incorrect based on that rule. --2001:4CA0:0:FE00:0:5EFE:A95:F3A0 (talk) 20:12, 31 August 2013 (UTC)

It's a balance between what it's known as and its name(s). It's in past WT:AIRPORTdiscussion that consensus was reached that HHN could not be called Frankfurt's so what's left is Hahn. Also its previous use was Hahn Air Base and current website is "hahn-airport.de", so that's what it's known as. HkCaGu (talk) 05:15, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Airport vandal: edit filter created

I've created an edit filter entry at Special:AbuseFilter/580 that attempts to prevent edits by the airport vandal. So far, it's caught and blocked 11 attempts to edit airport articles from the ranges in question in the last week. If you see the airport vandal making any edits that are not caught by this filter, please let me know, and I can try to widen the filter's rules to take in their new editing habits. -- The Anome (talk) 15:57, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks! Although I can't see the details, I'll keep watching for this and possibly similar vandals. HkCaGu (talk) 21:27, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

They now seem to have stopped hitting the filter; their last attempt was on 2 September. This suggests that they've either stopped, at least for now, or moved on to topics other than airports, or are otherwise evading the filter. -- The Anome (talk) 08:25, 6 September 2013 (UTC)

DL LAX hub??

Is it really a hub or not.....they are indeed expanding operations at the airport but Delta doesn't call it a hub "officially" (website, press releases, etc). I think we should take this discussion to the Delta talk page. 68.119.73.36 (talk) 07:38, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

I've already explained my latest edit. Delta's press releases list their hubs. So has that changed? Also, I think LAX article is definitely the wrong place to decide. It should be DL. HkCaGu (talk) 07:43, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

I have already started a discussion at the Delta talk page on this matter. Delta closed their hub at Memphis on September 2, 2013 and press releases after that date have removed Memphis as a hub but no LAX. 68.119.73.36 (talk) 07:49, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

Arcadia, CA Affluence

Affluence was explained in detail in the article. City's $144K median income is substantially higher than the average American Cities. Please stop changing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.161.192.15 (talk) 23:33, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

Then it belongs to the rest of the article, not the lead sentence, which is the place to explain the nature of the place and not for any geographically unrelated adjectives. We do not introduce every city with an economic adjective. HkCaGu (talk) 23:37, 4 October 2013 (UTC)

The lead sentence summarizes the article in a quick and concise matter for the readers. In this particular case, the word "affluent" clearly describes the social and economic stature of the city of Arcadia. Your explanation is nonsensical. If introducing a city with an economic adjective is impractical, then please change the description for city of San Marino, CA, Walnut, CA and many other cities. Why target Arcadia, CA only? Are you prejudice against the residents of Arcadia, CA? If you are, please speak up. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.161.192.15 (talk) 17:41, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

I see that you've deleted the word "affluent" for San Marino, CA and Walnut, CA. There are well over 500+ cities on Wikipedia with that have the word "Affluent" in the lead sentence.(ie, Smyrna, Georgia, Comodoro Rivadavia, Ardsley Park, Savannah, GeorgiaLafayette, California) Please make sure you change those too. I will spot check sporadically. Thank you for the hard work. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.161.192.15 (talk) 18:52, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

You can't demand me to change articles not on my watch list. HkCaGu (talk) 19:08, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

HkCaGu, I'm disappointed with your excuse. People often use this excuse when they try to weasel out of doing their duty. If indeed you can't delete the word "affluent" in the lead sentence for 500+ cities here on Wikipedia, then you must revert back to the change I've made for Arcadia, CA to ensure consistency. Now comes your performance review: You get an "A" for effort, and an "F" for poor execution. I will continue to monitor your performance and provide feedback. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.161.192.15 (talk) 17:25, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

@168.161.192.15:, I'm sorry to have to jump in here but I really must protest. You simply cannot demand another user does work. If you want something change it, do it yourself or REQUEST someone else do it if you're not sure. @HkCaGu: doesn't have any "duty" to do anything on demand, especially when it is demanded is such a rude manner. And one final thing, who are you to give "performance reviews"?! Who the hell do you think you are, the Wikipedia police?! Now while I appreciate that edit count isnt everything, I highly suspect that @HkCaGu: with their 21,000+ edits is a significantly better editor that yourself with your 47. Kindly treat him with the respect they deserve, failing that at least some basic respect. Truly unbelievable! KiraChinmoku 21:51, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Warsaw Modlin Airport

All the destinations added as seasonal should be added as seasonal to the destinations list, furtheromore hahn, weeze and budapest services are to end in november 2013. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JanDon95 (talk • contribs) 10:15, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Please redo them. I'm principally concerned that the Ryanair-style city naming is not the way we have decided to do. HkCaGu (talk) 16:48, 6 October 2013 (UTC)

Air Canada Express

A user added Air Canada Express to the hub for parameter in the infobox for the hub airports of Air Canada. Air Canada Express is a brand name not an airline (i.e. United Express, Delta Connection, US Airways Express, and American Eagle). So it cannot hub. 68.119.73.36 (talk) 03:47, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

San Marino =

Hi, I am only adding what the fact is. By the way do you live in San Marino, have you mingled with that community? How can I add reference if there is order of numbers there and I tried not to interrupt the reference orders, would you include that reference of one sentence that I added. I am only attempting to be objective and it was not overly done. Please do your own research more accurately. Forbes articles are too old and the fact that San Marino house values is the only area that keeps escalating very fast, we should fix the fact that is true. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mysanmarino (talk • contribs) 19:14, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Also please quote the updated news from Bloomberg Businessweek, article on December 7, 2011 stated San Marino No. 34 Richest Zip Code: 91108, San Marino, California — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mysanmarino (talk • contribs) 19:28, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

1. Welcome to Wikipedia. Please learn basic requirements for writing and formatting. There is a "help" button to the left. Please also sign talk pages with four consecutive "~".

2. Lead sentence is there to tell the basice, that SM is a city. Other adjectives (e.g. wealthy, affluent) should be in following sentences or paragraphs.

3. Please be aware of proper grammar. Properties are meant to be "expansive" in SM. And it's "ZIP code".

4. Additions that require too many improvements are generally reverted across Wikipedia. Your addition without any adjustment to pre-existing materials is detrimental to the flow of the article.

5. All editors are volunteers. You cannot demand others to do more than minimal work as a result of your work. HkCaGu (talk) 19:48, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

This is NOT about demanding a work, you must state a truthful statement. Are you an inspector in Wikipedia? Great scholar that consider yourself the smartest person in everything? Are you the most genious one who knows how to write every article in any topics? Some infos are not accurate. Don't be a volunteer of Wikipedia if you are complaining and don't know how to take input and suggestions!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mysanmarino (talk • contribs) 12:44, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

Airline hubs

A discussion was started at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Airlines#Need_true_definitive_definition_of_an_airline_hub regarding airlines and hub definition. Snoozlepet (talk) 23:27, 21 October 2013 (UTC)

San Francisco International Airport

Hey HkCaGu,

Thanks for helping at the article. It was semi-protected for one week. I was worried about getting toward breaching [[WP:3RR]3RR]]. WP:AIRPORT is like a god/goddess in these content disputes. Thanks for the help. Sportsguy17 00:59, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

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Athens International Airport

Hi, the edit that you reverted to in Athens International Airport (pointed out here) turns out to be made by a confirmed sockpuppet of Pumpie, HeyWollan. With that in mind the matter about the role of a station article for Athens International Airport is probably settled then: since the station itself has little of fame on its own unlike other Athens Metro stations, it may well stay as a redirect forever.

I see where you came from in regards to it being an airport article, but there's no case for the station to exist on Wikipedia on its own (by the way, I G5'd the station article because the only non-redirect edits were by Pumpie socks.) --Marianian^(talk) 14:18, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

MCO revert edit

Thanks a lot for reverting my edit on MCO Airport page....now you have ruined my day! Snoozlepet (talk) 02:35, 2 December 2013 (UTC) Well for banned user sock, the practice is revert and revert again, right? HkCaGu (talk) 02:36, 2 December 2013 (UTC)

This is an archive of past discussions with User:HkCaGu. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.