User talk:Erel Segal

Welcome!

2021-09

@Erel Segal: In your edit of the page "Integer Programming" on 4th November, 2020 at 17:06 - you mention that "Lenstra's algorithm implies that ILP is polynomial-time solvable also in the dual case, in which n is varying but m (the number of constraints) is constant." Can you add citation to prove this claim? To the best of my knowledge, it is valid only if m+||A|| is constant (Theorem 2, Ganian et al. "Solving integer linear programs by exploiting variable-constraint interactions: A survey." Algorithms 12.12 (2019): 248). If your claim is indeed correct, could you please add the relevant citation or proof to support it?

I took it from the paper I cited, reference [12] in that page. But maybe I misunderstood. If you think it is incorrect, then you can fix it according to the survey paper you mentioned. --Erel Segal (talk) 22:15, 18 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Holes and topology

Hello, I redirected the page Hole (topology) that you created to homotopy group. The reason is that "hole" is not a standard notion in topology, and the content of the page was essentially duplicate with that of the page on homotopy groups. Best, jraimbau (talk) 12:05, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Jean Raimbault: The notion of a "hole", as it appears in Jiri Matousek's book (which was my source for the hole page), is much simpler than that of a homotopy group. It does not require any knowledge of group theory. For laypeople, that just want an intuitive understanding of the concept, it is much more useful to have a page on a "hole", than to bring them into a page that requires a deep understanding of group theory. In any case, if you still think a page on "hole" is not justified, then I think it should at least appear as a sub-page with title "hole". Maybe homotopical connectivity is a better place for it. --Erel Segal (talk) 14:00, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Matoušek (and others) use the term "hole" loosely, and they do not give a formal definition for it. I don't think there ever has been a formal approach to the notion of hole that you propose that has been carried out independently of homotopy groups (and I personally feel that that the difficult part in the definition of those is the homotopy and not the group part). That's the main reason i don't think such an article is appropriate on wikipedia.

I'm not sure that redirecting as i did is the best solution though, you are welcome to discuss this on the main page of the wikiproject mathematics (i already launched a discussion a few days ago : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Mathematics#Hole). Best, jraimbau (talk) 14:19, 8 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have sent you a note about a page you started

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

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I have sent you a note about a page you started

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Thanks for creating the fixed-point computation page

Dear Dr. Segal, thanks for creating this exceptional article. It was very interesting and enlightening to learn more about Brouwer-fixed point theorem from the computational perspective. Saung Tadashi (talk) 20:29, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Saung Tadashi: Thanks! --Erel Segal (talk) 10:09, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Your submission at Articles for creation: Bin-packing with fragmentation (April 18)

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AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 16:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, Erel Segal! Having an article draft declined at Articles for Creation can be disappointing. If you are wondering why your article submission was declined, please post a question at the Articles for creation help desk. If you have any other questions about your editing experience, we'd love to help you at the Teahouse, a friendly space on Wikipedia where experienced editors lend a hand to help new editors like yourself! See you there! AngusW🐶🐶F (bark • sniff) 16:26, 18 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

CS1 error on Multi-issue voting

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Nomination for deletion of Template:Ordinal vs. cardinal utility

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CS1 error on Budget-proposal aggregation

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Fixed. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 14:40, 31 January 2024 (UTC).[reply]

CS1 error on Budget-proposal aggregation

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Fixed. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 14:40, 31 January 2024 (UTC).[reply]

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Optimal design

I have posted a question regarding the name change at the talk page of the article. Will Orrick (talk) 11:11, 5 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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CS1 error on Random utility model

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November 2023

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Ways to improve Median voting rule

Hello, Erel Segal,

Thank you for creating Median voting rule.

I have tagged the page as having some issues to fix, as a part of our page curation process and note that:

This is a very interesting subject and well-worthwhile for Wikipedia. However, there are entire sections that lack in-line citations. Consistent with Wikipedia's guidelines on citing sources, more in-line citations should be added.

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Nolabob (talk) 13:21, 14 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

CS1 error on Median voting rule

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Participatory budgeting experiments moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Participatory budgeting experiments, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) As written, the article contains too many statements and claims that are not supported by inline citations. Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Mccapra (talk) 03:38, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mccapra I do not understand your claim. There are 10 references, and every single paragraph in the writing is supported by an online citation. Can you please show me a single statement that is not supported by an online citation? --Erel Segal (talk) 06:41, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

” They had 180 subjects that are students from Zurich universities. Each subject had to evaluate projects in six input formats: unrestricted approval, 5-approval, 5-approval with ranking, cumulative with 5 points, cumulative with 10 points, cumulative with 10 points over 5 projects. The subjects were then asked which input format was most easy, most expressive, and most suitable. Unrestricted approval was conceived most easy, but least expressive and least suitable; in contrast, 5-approval with ranking, and cumulative with 10 points over 5 projects, were found significantly more expressive and more suitable. Suitability was affected mainly by expressiveness; the effect of easiness was negligible. They also found out that the project ranking in unrestricted approval was significantly different than in the other 5 input formats. Approval voting encouraged voters to disperse their votes beyond their immediate self-interest. This may be considered as altruism, but it may also mean that this format does not represent their preferences well enough.”

@Mccapra This is explaind in reference [6] which is cited at the beginning of the same paragraph, near the authors' names.

” They particularly compared the simple Greedy algorithm (which assumes cost-based satisfaction) with Equal Shares (assuming cardinality-based satisfaction). They found out that Greedy outcomes are highly sensitive to the input format used and the fraction of the population that participates. In contrast, MES outcomes are not sensitive to the type of voting format used. These outcomes are stable even when only 25–50% of the population participates in the election.”

@Mccapra Similarly, this is explaind in reference [4] which is cited at the beginning of the same paragraph, near the authors' names. Will it be better if I move these references to the end of the entire paragraph? --Erel Segal (talk) 10:02, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

yes that would be better. At the moment it looks like the bulk of the article us your original interpretation of the various studies, rather than a summary of the resesrchers’ own conclusions. Thanks Mccapra (talk) 13:54, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mccapra done. Are there any other issues to fix? --Erel Segal (talk) 14:00, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Moved back into mainspace and marked a# reviewed. Many thanks Mccapra (talk) 14:43, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

and so on. Mccapra (talk) 08:12, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are also several statements tagged as “clarification needed”. Mccapra (talk) 08:14, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Mccapra Fixed both clarification requests. Erel Segal (talk) 10:21, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Erel Segal. Thank you for your work on N-dimensional polyhedron. SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Hello my friend! Good day to you. Thanks for creating the article, I have marked it as reviewed. Have a blessed day!

✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 15:10, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@SunDawn: Thanks! --Erel Segal (talk) 15:13, 30 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Erel Segal. Thank you for your work on Power cone. SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Hello my friend! Good day to you. Thanks for creating the article, I have marked it as reviewed. Have a blessed day!

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 04:30, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unblock request

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

Erel Segal (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

---

Request reason:

Whenever I am connected to the Internet from my university's wifi network, I get a message that my IP range "212.179.0.0/16 " is blocked because it is a web-host provider, and so I cannot edit Wikipedia from within the university. Is it possible to make an exception for registered users for this IP?

Decline reason:

We can't do that, but you can go to WP:IPECPROXY and follow the instructions there to request IP block exemption by email, which would be the same thing. — Daniel Case (talk) 07:34, 1 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

---

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired. Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

--Erel Segal (talk) 13:04, 31 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Daniel Case: I emailed them at `[e-mail]` two weeks ago and got no reply. Is there any other option? --Erel Segal (talk) 08:47, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am increasingly warning people I tell this to that it is not going to come quickly ... the checkusers have a lot to do, and many of those things have higher priorities. We have been getting a lot of these requests lately because we've been more aggressive in blocking open proxies where we find them.

So ...

I have looked over your history, and

• you have been editing (albeit not as heavily as some of us) for almost 16 years,
• you have never been blocked during that time, and
• you had IPBE for a year in the recent past without any issues.

I have thus decided to take it upon myself to grant you that right indefinitely (of course, any checkuser who eventually does review your request will have the right to revoke it if they feel there's a good reason, but from what I've seen of you I doubt there will be). I do not do this lightly ... admins used to be able to do it at their discretion, but then I gather someone was too free with those grants, and ... well, that's why we can't have nice things. Daniel Case (talk) 16:26, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

IP block exempt

I have granted your account an exemption from IP blocking. This will allow you to edit the English Wikipedia through full blocks affecting your IP address when you are logged in.

Please read the page Wikipedia:IP block exemption carefully, especially the section on IP block exemption conditions. Inappropriate usage of this user right may result in revocation. I hope this will enhance your editing, and allow you to edit successfully and without disruption. Daniel Case (talk) 16:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC) Daniel Case (talk) 16:28, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Daniel Case: Thanks a lot! --Erel Segal (talk) 11:55, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Erel Segal. Thank you for your work on Median voting rule. North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Is this a duplication or overlap with Median voter theorem or Highest median voting rules?

North8000 (talk) 12:42, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No, but funnily enough, it was a duplicate of median mechanism (which Erel has now kindly merged :) ) Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 21:56, 29 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@North8000: No - this is why I put the "do not confuse" note at the top. I explain the differences between the terms in the "Related concepts" section at the bottom. --Erel Segal (talk) 18:46, 8 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Confusion about edit to NP-hardness

Hi, I was confused by your recent edit to the NP-hardness page. I agree with you (and was interested to learn!) that some undecidable problems are not NP-hard. But I don't see why this contradicts the informal statement "NP-hard problems are at least as hard as the hardest problems in NP". Indeed, the undecidable problems in question are not in NP.

Putting it otherwise, the informal statement says that "if Π is an NP-hard problem and Π' is a problem in NP, then Π is at least as hard as Π'". And indeed, then, Π' reduces to Π by definition. So I don't see why you find this informal statement to be inaccurate.

What do you think? Could you explain more (to me, and/or on NP-hardness) why you find the statement inaccurate? For now my opinion would be that we should mention the fact about non-NP-hard undecidable problems, but that we could keep the statement. Thanks! --a3nm (talk) 08:49, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@A3nm: As the informal statement appeared at the top, I understood it as an alternative definition of NP-hardness, which is an "if and only if" statement. The "if" direction that you wrote is correct, but the other direction "if Π is at least as hard as all problems in NP then Π is NP-hard" is incorrect. I edited the paragraph to clarify. --Erel Segal (talk) 18:39, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, that's clearer, but I'm still a bit confused. In the article you write "some problems are undecidable, and therefore even harder than all problems in NP". I'm not sure in which sense you mean this, formally: what does it mean that an undecidable problem is "harder" than a problem in NP, given that (as you point out) there is no reduction from one to the other?

I do see that you would informally expect an undecidable problem to be "harder" than an NP problem, but I don't see a way to state this as a formal claim, so I'm a bit uncomfortable with saying it explicitly.

How about rephrasing:

> Informally, if H is NP-hard, then it is "at least as hard as the hardest problems in NP". However, the opposite direction is not true: some problems are undecidable, and therefore even harder than all problems in NP, but they are provably not NP-hard (unless P=NP).

To something that avoids the issue:

> Informally, if H is NP-hard, then it is "at least as hard as the hardest problems in NP". However, there are some undecidable problems that are provably not NP-hard (unless P=NP).

What do you think? a3nm (talk) 12:16, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, the word "hard" is overloaded. We should clarify the confusion between the daily use of "hard" (- difficult to solve), and the formal meaning of "hard" (- can be reduced from). I changed to "difficult to solve". Erel Segal (talk) 12:32, 12 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Erel Segal. Thank you for your work on Fully proportional representation. North8000, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Nice work

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North8000 (talk) 22:19, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Erel Segal. Thank you for your work on Dominant resource fairness. SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Good day! Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia by writing this article. I have marked the article as reviewed. Have a wonderful and blessed day for you and your family!

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 08:21, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have sent you a note about a page you started

Hello, Erel Segal. Thank you for your work on Compilation complexity. SunDawn, while examining this page as a part of our page curation process, had the following comments:

Good day! Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia by writing this article. I have marked the article as reviewed. Have a wonderful and blessed day for you and your family!

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✠ SunDawn ✠ (contact) 15:41, 19 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Your draft article, Draft:Random utility model

Hello, Erel Segal. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or draft page you started, "Random utility model".

In accordance with our policy that Wikipedia is not for the indefinite hosting of material, the draft has been deleted. When you plan on working on it further and you wish to retrieve it, you can request its undeletion. An administrator will, in most cases, restore the submission so you can continue to work on it.

Thank you for your submission to Wikipedia, and happy editing. ✗plicit 05:44, 11 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Burr dilemma for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Burr dilemma is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Burr dilemma until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 01:38, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Dr. Segal, just wanted to ask if there's anything you think is important to mention at the bullet voting article about the Burr dilemma, other than the name. It's quite difficult since there's very few published sources on it, unfortunately. :( Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 17:08, 5 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Rental harmony

Hello Prof. Segal,

I've read the article rental harmony, and it's well written and concise!

One thing I am not sure about is in this paragraph Mash, Gal, Procaccia and Zick: EF and maximin. it is not clear whether their mechanism is individually rational (ensuring non negative utilities for all housemates). Matankic (talk) 11:53, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I remember, it is individually rational for every agent for whom the sum of valuations is at least the total rent. --Erel Segal (talk) 12:50, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I briefly read their paper and it seems 'individually rational' is not mentioned there, or is there something trivial that I miss? Matankic (talk) 13:06, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it can be proved from envy-freeness. --Erel Segal (talk) 18:44, 28 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think I managed to prove it. I don't get why they didn't prove this on their paper.

Proof. Let's assume, by contradiction, that there is student ${\displaystyle s_{i}}$ with negative utility over his allocated room, ${\displaystyle 0>u_{i}(A_{i})=v_{i}(A_{i})-p_{A_{i}}}$, meaning that the payment for room ${\displaystyle A_{i}}$ is strictly larger than his valuation of this room, ${\displaystyle p_{A_{i}}>v_{i}(A_{i})}$. Since the solution is envy free, ${\displaystyle \forall j:0>u_{i}(A_{i})\geq u_{i}(A_{j})}$. That is, student ${\displaystyle s_{i}}$'s utility over any other room ${\displaystyle A_{j}}$ is at most ${\displaystyle u_{i}(A_{i})<0}$. Hence ${\displaystyle \forall j:p_{A_{j}}>v_{i}(A_{j})\Rightarrow \sum _{j}p_{A_{j}}>\sum _{j}v_{i}(A_{j})}$. The sum of payments for the rooms sums to ${\displaystyle T}$, the rent for the house, ${\displaystyle \sum _{j}p_{A_{j}}=T}$. Therefore, under the assumption that ${\displaystyle \sum _{j}v_{i}(A_{j})\geq T}$ we get a contradiction.

toda, Matankic (talk) 00:02, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the proof is correct. Erel Segal (talk) 07:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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July 2024

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A barnstar for you!

	The Writer's Barnstar
	For your incredible contributions to expanding coverage of social choice and fair division on Wikipedia. – Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 02:56, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Closed Limelike Curves Thanks! Erel Segal (talk) 06:25, 29 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Recommendations on fair division+social choice articles

There's a lot of good articles you've written on fair division and social choice. First, I wanted to say thank you for your hard work :)

I also wanted to make some suggestions—I think your articles are great, but I think there's some ways to improve their readership:

1. Right now, the articles are very hard to find from each other or from the most well-read Wiki articles on social choice. The big articles are ones like Arrow's impossibility theorem, spoiler effects, or first-past-the-post voting. I think one great way to improve this would be to try adding sidebars to some of them, which let interested users go from one to another over time.
2. The style of these articles often feels like an annotated bibliography or scholarly review article, listing a lot of papers and what they found. I think that's sensible in some situations, but in others, a textbook-like introduction might be better. Wikipedia isn't a textbook, but it's very often meant to be an introduction to a particular topic. There's generally a need for more "introductory" pages to these topics.
3. When reading your articles, I often come across specific terminology that I'm unfamiliar with. Linking can be very helpful here!

As an example of an introductory page I've written, I've reworked Arrow's impossibility theorem to serve as a discussion on some of the more important results in social choice regarding independence of irrelevant alternatives. – Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 20:00, 30 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Closed Limelike Curves: thanks for the comments, and sorry for the late reply. Regarding 1, I agree that adding sidebars can be very helpful, though I am not sure where to start. If you can do it, it would be great. Regarding 2, I agree that adding introductory notes could be helpful, and I do it whenever I note the need. Regarding 3, I try to link as much as possible, but probably missed some terms. What terms do you think are under-linked? --Erel Segal (talk) 08:37, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Unusual request

Bit of an unusual request, but I came across this request for comment and have been mulling over the issue of what mechanism works for handling this sort of question. TL;DR: Wikipedia has a new admin recall procedure, where any petition that gets X signatures within Y days results in a recall election. Right now, people are arguing about what X and Y should be. Any suggestions on mechanisms for choosing? Preferences for these are probably metric-based, which makes things easier. On the other hand, I'm guessing preferences are strongly correlated in terms of whether recalls should be easy (few signatures, lots of time) or hard (high signature requirement, short timeframe). That makes me think trying to set these values one-by-one won't work very well. On the plus side, this is a fairly "clean" problem in that I'm guessing all preferences are ~single-peaked, the distribution of ideal points is roughly multivariate (log-)normal.

I know about the median mechanism for 1d problems, and since I know the geometric median has a 50% breakdown point, I'm guessing it has similar strategy-resistance properties for 2d problems (even if it's not strictly strategyproof); would that be a sensible choice, or is there a better alternative you know of? – Closed Limelike Curves (talk) 21:02, 17 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Closed Limelike Curves: That's an interesting question. I would try some multi-dimensional extension of a median mechanism, but I am not an expert on these extensions. I will keep this question in mind and tell you if I think of something. --Erel Segal (talk) 08:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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