Hi, Daniel. I'll recheck the NY Times and whatever else I can quickly locate now. I'm at work, but I didn't want you think I was ignoring the request for input. --Tenebrae (talk) 16:46, 24 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You're absolutely correct. The Times says "Max Charles Gaines, 56 years old," and 1947 - 56 = 1891, not 1894. The math was off. I'll fix immediately. Great catch! --Tenebrae (talk) 16:49, 24 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Fantastic find with the census-taker's information! I'm not sure it's any more definitive than the NY Times using what would have been a police report basing his age of an identification card like a driver's license, but that's not unusual (see Mariah Carey, for instance). If you don't mind, I'll go ahead and add it as long as I'm here. --Tenebrae (talk) 19:43, 24 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I'm glad you pointed out the purported NY Times cite. It's actually not the NY Times — if you look closely, you can see it says at the top of the bio "From All Movie Guide". And at the end it says, "~ Jason Buchanan, Rovi," Rovi being the corporation that owns All Media (AllMovie.com, AllMusic.com, etc.). And if she graduated high school in 1987, as it says there, she almost certainly wasn't born in 1970, since that would mean she was barely 17 when she graduated. Unless she were double-promoted —and nothing in her background suggests that this rare occurrence happened — she couldn't have been born in 1970.
Also, Newsday is her hometown paper and has been covering her since she began. And it looks like another cite saying 1969 was People magazine [1] and I've no idea why it was removed. People additionally says here, "[W]e have a copy of Ms. Carey's driver's license, which lists her birthday as March 27, 1969. Furthermore, we spoke with the administrators at the high school she attended who confirmed that Ms. Carey's birthday is March 27, 1969, as did her management when we made our initial interview." So there's probably better evidence for 1969 than 1970, but since some RS sources say 1970, we have to give both. --Tenebrae (talk) 02:27, 25 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I didn't know about People. I will not argue longer but if her mother said she was born in 1970 on a video and particularly the deductions about the song, for me, she was born in 70. You will think maybe I am crazy but for the school, their parents may have "traffic" the year on the copy of the birth certificate so they can put her in school a year earlier (in 1974 instead of 1975). I was born in 1969. My parents once told me that they knew relatives who made that for their infant can go in school a year earlier. If they done it in Canada, they can certainly have done it in U.S.A. But we don't tell others. They will think I'm crazy... Thanks again. --Danielvis08 (talk) 02:50, 25 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Daniel. I'm very impressed with your thoughtfulness and research-dedication. The twins' purported birth certificate has been discussed in the Talk:Mariah Carey archives; I've posted about them just now on her article's talk page. In summary, they're very likely not real. The bottom line is, some celebrities fudge their ages, and when equally reliable sources give two different dates, Wikipedia policy forbids us from picking one over the other. That would be WP:POV. --Tenebrae (talk) 15:39, 25 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
At work right now, but I can't wait to take a look. Wikipedia is lucky to have someone dedicated like yourself researching all this vintage-star stuff! -- Tenebrae (talk) 16:32, 3 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, And I'm pretty sure of that, the names ot theirs parents, the places they were born and LOOK at this post of a contributor of IMDb who tells he meets her and after that he wishes her Happy 91st birthday on January 29th, 2015 -->suggesting he knows she was born January 29, 1924 -> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0540416/board/thread/239656902 -->And on IMDb they tells January 30, 1925. I begin to think you have reason about Mariah Carey and she is lying too and is really born in 1969 and these female stars are all "younger" than she really are, see also Doris Day, the census don't lie. In French, I corrected the page of Dorothy Malone putting the birthdates possible with some notes and it is only the beginning. In French I made corrections also on some others stars that in English it is not yet made like Charlton Heston for example...But I'll wait to have your advice. Oh I found a phenomemal Source about the biography of some comics authors that lists the birthdates and the deathdates that are missing on some english wiki articles. If you want a link to this source left me a message and I will be happy to give it to you. Thanks again. --Danielvis08 (talk) 19:05, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
What I begin to think is that Hollywood "forces" her females stars when they arrive and sign to say they are a year younger that they really are for a purpose that it appears better for the public. Take by example Mariah, Hollywood may have done a false document with a false birthdate and when she appears she must say she was born in 1970 but on her real driver's license it's written the real year, 1969, because if she is arrested, she can't cheat the law with a false identity...it's bizarre that she doesn't show her driver's license to none ...--Danielvis08 (talk) 20:27, 6 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Like Lizabeth Scott born Emma Matzo on September 29, 1922. But YOUR WIKI SOURCE who is given in reference in the Lizabeth Scott wiki article from familysearch tells in April 1930 (U.S. Census 1930) she is aged 8, implies being born between April 1921 and April 1922, not September 29, 1922 but most likely September 29, 1921 !!! See -> https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XH3T-V2B. The same for the April 1940 Census who say she is 18 and must be born between April 1921 and April 1922 -> https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KQZ8-YKJ. All these early Censuses can't all lie !!!!! --Danielvis08 (talk) 04:45, 7 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
A lot to sift through! It'll take time but I'm committed to helping on this. I did seen your note on Corey Lewandowski, and in fact a Politico site already there quoted the same police-report birth date. I moved that cite from the infobox to the article body, where it should have been. Thanks for the head's up!--Tenebrae (talk) 15:56, 10 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Still planning to sift through Dorothy Malone, and in the meantime I've found RS conflicting dates on Anne Jackson: NY Times and Internet Broadway Database (an RS product of The Broadway League) give 1925, but FilmReference.com and, more significantly, Jackson herself give 1926. Since actors and actresses have been known to shave a year or two off their age — and she said 1926 in 1962, when a year could still conceivably make a difference in her career — I've included both years. I would presume that the Social Security Death Index, when it becomes available within the next couple, three, weeks, ought to have her definitive birthdate. Fingers crossed — and as always, great work! --Tenebrae (talk) 21:17, 16 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
When I interviewed Richard Crenna many years ago, he confessed that he added a year to his age when he was younger, in order to make himself seem older than he was he was since he looked so younger he was getting juvenile parts into his adulthood!
If we have official government documentation of 1925, when then we can use that and put a footnote to the effect that Jackson said this or that. I can handle the citation logistics if you can supply the links to the Census, etc., data. Place the links here, if you want, and I'll transfer them. Or just put them in the article and I'll clean them up.
Not sure we can use a term like "probably" — runs afoul of WP:POV. I think we can just give the sourcing and let the reader decide. And again ... GREAT work!!--Tenebrae (talk) 13:12, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, here are the 2 Census links to Anne Jackson ->
Note that the father is 37 and from Yuguslavia in 1930 and in 1940 he is 45 and from Austria -> it means he lied in one of the Census.
Is it correct if we work like this ? And in the section Life and career of Anne Jackson wiki article there is a bizarre phrase ->"She aand moved with her family to Brooklyn" -> The error is the word "aand". Thanks and it's you who make GREAT work ! --Danielvis08 (talk) 17:35, 17 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Daniel. Naw, foreign-language sources are fine if we can't find anything comparable in English. I'll go take a look. Hopefully it's [{WP:RS|RS]]. And as always: Good research work, man! --Tenebrae (talk) 20:43, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Daniel. Of course I remember — you do great research!
I honestly don't know if findadeath.com is considered a reliable source, but I'll check around. The Andre the Giant page there doesn't say, at least in English, what that paper is; it doesn't look like a death certificate. I guess the first things to do is translate it, which it sounds as if you can do, and we can start from there.
In the meantime, I did manage to remove the disallowed IMDb cites in the article body, so by bringing up the Andre article, you've already done it some good! --Tenebrae (talk) 04:12, 18 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Yes but, me I read French and I know what it is. I just sent a message to the WWE to tell them to correct that on their site. I don't know if they speak french so I translate it a little for them. Maybe they will correct it, maybe not. We will have to wait. And findadeath is not a reliable source since they have the death certificate from the mairie de Paris and they put in the beginning of their article that he died January 27. Obviously the guy don't understand french and he don't know that "vingt-huit" means "twenty-eight" in English. Thanks. --Danielvis08 (talk) 04:47, 18 July 2016 (UTC) Let me about 30 minutes and I will translate all for you. --Danielvis08 (talk) 04:50, 18 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Daniel. I'll need a couple of days to get to this because of work — it's going to be complicated since we're dealing with a primary source that contradicts secondary sources. But I think it can be phrased in a way that addresses both. In the meantime, I'd like to see if we can find a contemporaneous newspaper account — maybe a French newspaper that reported on his death. The date of the paper would be significant. --Tenebrae (talk) 02:06, 19 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And if you click on "Autres" in the page of André The Giant in Cineartistes.com you will see that my friend Philippe Pelletier has insert his copy of death certificate that he asked at the townhall of Paris... you click on "Autres" then on the act itself to enlarge it... Thanks. --Danielvis08 (talk) 18:36, 19 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Some more. The Los Angeles Times obit says, "The exact time of his death was not immediately known." I'm really wondering where "January 27" originated. Because as you show, the death certificate says "January 28." I wonder if it was January 28 in France but because of time-zone differences it was January 27 in the U.S.? --Tenebrae (talk) 21:51, 19 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Where I can we run into difficulty is Andre the Giant's official website, run by his estate. The official biography says born in Grenoble, France, and "died in Paris, France in his hotel room on January 27, 1993." We're going to have to find wording to address the discrepancy. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:54, 19 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Here is a site in english that in the beginning said he died January 27 but in the middle of the page there are 2 paragraphs written at the right of the photo where Andre holds a stone. On the second paragraph it tells that he died January 28... http://www.thehistorybomb.com/articles/2015/1/28/this-week-in-wrestling-history-the-world-loses-its-giant The confusion must have come that André visits Paris the 27 to attend his father's funerals but he died the 28 in his hotel room and if you want to contact my friend who has his birth certificate he tell me you can contact him via his talk page on wikipedia in french or you can e-mail him, he will show you his death certificate and can translate it for you if you don't believe me. I told of you and he said it'ok if you want to contact him. Thanks. --Danielvis08 (talk) 22:18, 19 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Probably he went in his hotel room the 27 and when they knocked at the door the 28 to take news from him he doesn't answer so they must had thought something was wrong so they broke the door at 20 past 6 p.m and they found him dead...so if they don't know when exactly he died they on the death certificate they put the earliest time it was SURE he was dead...when he was discovered dead at 20 past 6 p.m. on January 28. --Danielvis08 (talk) 22:49, 19 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I would like also attire your attention on the first name of his father on his death certificate... STOEFF, it's sound not great like BORIS from what WWF claimed... you see when I was young when we watched wrestling at TV they said that Abdullah the Butcher came from Africa, in fact I discovered later he was born in a small town in Ontario...--Danielvis08 (talk) 22:57, 19 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, Daniel. I've been off Wikipedia for a few days and want to catch up on some things first. I promise I'll return to this and give whatever help I can.--Tenebrae (talk) 20:07, 11 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I know I've got a help to give, and I've been meaning to come around. Family / health issues. Can you post links to the birth certificates you mention on the other page? That would make it easier for me to insert correct dates. --Tenebrae (talk) 21:16, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Tenebrae, I think you speak of my Page where I put the true dates. I will put the links of the Italian births because it's easy and the links will stay. I will put them at the right of their names... --Danielvis08 (talk) 21:56, 1 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, for certains like Enrico Guazzoni, if you look at the birth certificate, in the upper right of the right page in the margin, you have the death date written. Here it's written "Suddente è morte in Roma in 23-9-49", meaning he died in Roma on 23 September 1949. For Olga Capri we don't have the death date so when I created the article Olga Capri on french wikipedia, I take the death date from italian wikipedia or english wikipedia, I supposed it was the "right" death date. But on my page where you see the 9 italians to correct, if I put a death date, it's because it's the death date written on the birth certificate. --Danielvis08 (talk) 01:00, 3 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
And here is the real birth name of the famous Rudolph Valentino: Birth certificate no 182 (Made 9 May 1895, born 6 May 1895 at Castellaneta, birth name is Rodolfo Pietro Filiberto Raffaello Guglielmi) --> [3] (Like you can see there is no Alfonso in his name neither di Valentina... and it's Pietro, not Pierre). --Danielvis08 (talk) 04:54, 4 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, you are a real pro, my friend. (Just a word to tell you that for Otello Martelli on your ref cite you mention he died 23 September 1949, it's Enrico Guazzoni, Martelli has no death date on the certificate). But if you look at the source who gave his death date in the year 2000, The Guardian, I just saw that they gave his birth date too and it match the birth certificate for 1903 and not 1902).
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I guess you've probably searched already for Gwendolyn L. Witter and haven't come up with anything. I'll try as well and also see if I have anything in one of my print books. If we can connect the names, then the birth data you found should go in. And you are correct: If the cited article does not specifically say born in Boston, we can only say she was raised there. I'll take a look. Thank you for continued excellent genealogical work!! --Tenebrae (talk) 22:35, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I also tried seeing if the blogger, David Lobosco (or LoBosco?), was an author on movie topics, but nothing shows up on Amazon. And you're correct again in that while the blog look authentic, there's really no way to ascertain that the woman in the photo really is her. We'll keep digging. --Tenebrae (talk) 22:40, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
At least I think she must still be alive because she was a great actress with 64 movies on his credit from Imdb, if she has died, I'm pretty sure that newspapers like The Hollywood Reporter or The New York Times would had made an article on her. I'll keep searching. --Danielvis08 (talk) 22:47, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Hey Tenebrae, go again on the blog and click on his name David Lobosco, you will see he is on google and writes a lot of articles about old actors. He must be a fan or an historian... --Danielvis08 (talk) 22:57, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I looked at the video and the photos, and while they probably are legit, there's no way to be sure, and since this is not Mary's own verified Facebook page, we can't really use it. I know ... it's frustrating. I'll keep combing through my books. --Tenebrae (talk) 23:51, 15 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I love that you're using that footnote template! If you put links on your user-page list for the birth certificates, I'll be glad to help continue adding cites. Just let me know.--Tenebrae (talk) 17:31, 14 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
For your tireless work on the endless task of confirming birthdates through the fudging and the sludge. Your incredible efforts to confirm true birthdates is an example to all Wikipedians! --Tenebrae (talk) 21:04, 20 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you very much for this Barnstar Tenebrae, it's very appreciated! When you have time just check what steps I take to find the birthdate and birthplace of Arthur Bernier on his Talk:Arthur Bernier Page, you'll be surprised! I will not correct it in the article but I will wait to see if someone will read my message on the Talk Page and answer it... --Danielvis08 (talk) 01:06, 21 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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