User talk:Dahn/Archive 39

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVI (April 2008)

The April 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:30, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So much to delete, so little time

But I would certainly back deletion there, and may propose it myself. I suppose I should ask, in return, have you seen these guys' contributions? Biruitorul (talk) 02:12, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I checked the relevant categories (Egyptian saints, Egyptian hermits, 429 deaths) - apparently nothing. I agree: disambiguate "Sisoes" and call him "Sisoes of Egypt". (Or "Sisoes the Great", like his friend Anthony the Great, but better to reserve the "Great" part for the lead rather than the title.) Biruitorul (talk) 14:37, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's SuperDahn to the rescue! :) On a more serious note, this finally exists - imperfect source, but the pages on Jilava seem fine, though I welcome more sources. At least it's a start. (By the way, were they all shot by firing squad? That should be mentioned if possible.) Eventually we should also have an article on the prison itself, rather than just the Jilava article, but that's none too urgent. Biruitorul (talk) 08:03, 4 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm long overdue to reply, but first, something I noticed - this. I removed the split tag once before, and I assume you oppose a split, but I thought maybe you'd like to write a brief response there before removing the tags, or what have you. Biruitorul (talk) 06:38, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, and one other point for whenever you have the time - Romanians of Chernivtsi Oblast (see the recent history). I know we've disagreed on this subject in the past, but wouldn't you agree that by removing data on the self-declared Moldovans, the potential for a content fork is being set up? The subject is already treated by limited sources, and to extract "Moldovans" leaves a rather incomplete picture. Surely some way of discussing both, without being accused of "mixing apples and oranges", could be found. Biruitorul (talk) 21:30, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

New Project

Myself and several other editors have been compiling a list of very active editors who would likely be available to help new editors in the event they have questions or concerns. As the list grew and the table became more detailed, it was determined that the best way to complete the table was to ask each potential candidate to fill in their own information, if they so desire. This list is sorted geographically in order to provide a better estimate as to whether the listed editor is likely to be active.

If you consider yourself a very active Wikipedian who is willing to help newcomers, please either complete your information in the table or add your entry. If you do not want to be on the list, either remove your name or just disregard this message and your entry will be removed within 48 hours. The table can be found at User:Useight/Highly Active, as it has yet to have been moved into the Wikipedia namespace. Thank you for your help. Useight (talk) 06:10, 3 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

5/7 DYK

On 7 May, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Le Coeur à gas, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Bedford 18:36, 7 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Gas to gaz

Je t'en prie, Dahn. I call it article blindness - when you're writing something, you're looking at it for so long you can end up not seeing it any more. As for oe/œ, I don't have strong feelings. It was Korg who made that change. Awien (talk) 11:56, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

5/8 DYK

On 8 May, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Simbolul, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Bedford 18:55, 8 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

DYK: Ioan Gyuri Pascu

On 11 May, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Ioan Gyuri Pascu, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--PFHLai (talk) 15:22, 11 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Jules Perahim

Thank you for the advices about the copyright. Nu tin neaparat sa figureze tabloul "Romania", dar ar fi pacat (pentru Wikipedia) sa nu figureze niciunul, cand ele figureaza cam pretudindeni. Idealul ar fi sa stiu sa fac legaturi, ca aceea pe care mi-ati facut-o in mesajul Dumneavoastra, astfel incat, daca cititorul nu poate vedea imaginile in Wiki din pricina problemelor de copyright, sa poata ajunge la ele prin legaturi... Din pacate, nu stapanesc inca aceasta tehnica... Best regards, --Spiridon MANOLIU (talk) 14:52, 12 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Kogaion vs. Kogaionon

Hi. I've recently had a message on my talk page at ro.wiki about the en.wiki article Kogaion. The correct form, exclusively used in scholarly works is Kogaionon and the only form used by Strabo. Try google scholar, for example. Only protochronistic and fictional works use Kogaion. Plinul cel tanar (talk) 14:02, 13 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Marilena from P7

Salut, as vrea daca se poate sa ma ajuti cu ceva. Am tradus articolul de mai sus, dar se pare ca proza ar mai trebui imbunatatita. Te uiti tu peste el, daca poti si vrei. L-am listat pt LoCE, dar acolo nu s-a mai prea miscat nimic de mult timp, iar articolul este abia la coada listei. diego_pmc (talk) 08:01, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I should mention that I only translated the article; the original author is impy4ever. Anyway thanks. As for GAC, it was already proposed by someone else some time ago. There still are a few problems with the article, especially with images (insignificant images with fair-use); I intend to fix them (for both versions), but not right now. diego_pmc (talk) 13:30, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

ro-wiki reloaded

Everything that happened lately is very very dissapointing to me though not alltogether surprizing... what are you going to do next? Plinul cel tanar (talk) 08:55, 15 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Romanian writers

M-am conformat “somaţiei”, dar simt nevoia unei explicaţii... ca drept la replică. La Wikipedia română, categoria “Scriitori români” este atotcuprnzătoare, având configuraţia unui index de unde poţi accesa fiecare autor, indiferent că este prozator, poet sau critic literar. Bineînţeles că ei figurează şi la subcategoriile respective. Urmând acest model, am vrut să-l transplantez şi în engleză, mai ales că lista scriitorilor români este lacunară, cu câteva nume doar care sunt recunoscute în ţară, dar şi cu veleitari care cred că “reprezintă” literele române. Am impresia, deci, că numai prin indicarea (sub)categoriilor “Romanian novelists”, “Romanian poets” sunt scoşi din circuitul informaţional unele nume de referinţă. Best, Mecena (talk) 13:04, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Return

Probabil aveţi dreptate... Constat însă cu stupoare că, în zelul protecţionist, mi-au fost anulate şi alte mici contribuţii de utilizator începător. La articolul Literature of Romania mi s-a eliminat intervenţia de la Fine examples, precum şi corectura de la References. Titlul Istoriei... lui Călinescu are greşeli (inclusiv de diacritice), iar anul apariţiei nu este 1945, ci 1941 (reeditată în 1985). Am trecut categoria “Romanian folklorists” (unde figurează şi Mihai Eminescu) şi la Vasile Alecsandri, care, întâmplător, a descoperit şi publicat pentru prima oară Mioriţa. Cât priveşte categoria “Romanian writers”, mă uit cu stupoare cum, alături de câţiva autori valoroşi (puţini la număr, cum am mai spus), tronează nume precum Cosmin Costinaş, Costache Ioanid, Virgiliu Pop (jurist), Mihai Rădulescu, Valentin Serbu (sortat greşit), Victor Teleucă. necunoscute în mediile literare româneşti. Desigur, în spiritul democratic al Wikipediei, toţi îşi au locul... Nu-mi rămâne decât să vă privesc de pe margini fervoarea “administrativă”, fără să vă dau cumva lecţii, deşi titlul de doctor în filologie m-ar îndritui să o fac. Acelaşi, cenzurat, Mecena (talk) 15:08, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Adminship

Hello my friend! Would you be interested in becoming an admin? I think you deserve it and I'm ready to nominate you. - Darwinek (talk) 17:47, 18 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Droboitune

Nais pentru info, voi folosi licenta "fair". Asta îmi aminteste de un cântec copilaresc: "London bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down, London bridge is falling down, my FAIR lady!": multa vreme asta a fost toata engleza mea.

Ash ledevlesa, te avets bahtalo, --Spiridon MANOLIU (talk) 18:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More poets

Hi Dahn, I've started a few more including Linda Maria Baros and George Baronzi. Remember User:Blofeld of SPECTRE/Romania. Hope you are well its funny but I have also turned down adminship for exactly the same reasons. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 15:07, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ever heard of Samson Bodnărescu or Eta Boeriu?? ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 17:59, 19 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Mmm I did suspect that one actually. She looked more like a student than a notable writer. Should I speedy it? The thing is it indicated that she has one a lot of awards and events which to the casual eye look worthy of mentioning. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 11:09, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I had hoped though you could expand Eta Boeriu. SHe seemd notable I thought ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 11:17, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Noted. I have usually done this in the past, many of the Hungarian people by city were started by me. Michael Shafir is also missing ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 11:31, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I've seen it red linked on may occassions and reading the context I kind of get this impressions he isn't what you'd call one of the most pleasant of people. Thanks for your help anyway, hope you had a good break ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 11:51, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Controversial issues it seems. Yes that can be difficult to write about in an encyclopedia. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 12:03, 25 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Reenactment

		The Barnstar of High Culture
		Brewcrewer, a newpage patroller, rarely comes across any great new articles, but when he does, like The Reenactment, he can't help but plaster its creator's talkpage with a barnstar. brewcrewer (yada, yada) 15:15, 28 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Feeling Green

(?) I was thinking much the same thing - it certainly beats the Moldavian business. (By the way, see under language in the infobox here - on the one hand, Cantemir did call it that; on the other, the article it links to describes a rather more recent phenomenon.) So yes, even the bibliography is messy; I just sort of snuck in the new reference. The article gives no clue as to the Guard's size, makes no mention of the fact that a fifth of Orthodox priests were either members or sympathizers (and that whole angle), or of its youth wing (and female activists), skips over 1928-32 and 1934-37 (including, say, Carol's request to become Căpitan), and so on. In sum, quite ripe for expansion, and I'm willing to assist with the sources I have. Biruitorul ^Talk 17:42, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, that depends on how much we can do with the present article. If we can work things in, then we should stay there. If a total overhaul is needed, then a sandbox may be better. Ah, already reverted on Moldavia - nothing like editors with agendas! (This comes to mind.)

By the way, here's a nice set! Once you strip away the decorative boxes, they're not something that couldn't be merged. If only their creator expended some energy on writing an actual history of the PNL (you know, the party that dominated or at least played a prominent role in Romanian political life for decade upon decade, and of which zero mention is made in the article), or a history of each legislative chamber (he did, to his credit, write this, but it's just a start, really). Well, I suppose my real complaint is this: we have far too few Romanian-interested editors who a) know both languages well enough to write meaningful articles here b) aren't here to promote an agenda and c) have a fine grasp of what Wikipedia is about. I'm not sure how to cultivate that, so for now, cultivons notre propre jardin and focus on the Guard. Biruitorul ^Talk 18:37, 29 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Warned

See Digwuren restriction and Digwuren warning. Cease making any edits which are judged by an administrator to be uncivil, personal attacks, or assumptions of bad faith, especially in East European related articles or you will be subject to said restrictions. — Rlevse • Talk • 17:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

• Just a few samples of why:

20:43, May 29, 2008 (hist) (diff) List of rulers of Moldavia‎ (huh? it's the goddamn name of the page (used on all other categories), and is not a list of leaders of Moldova)

14:29, May 28, 2008 (hist) (diff) List of rulers of Moldavia‎ (Moledopolo, please don't add arguments from ignorance to wikipedia - you clearly have no idea that: a. Moldavia was a polity before being a principlaity; b. Romania was a state before independence)

diff

— Rlevse • Talk • 17:26, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's unfortunate to see this - quite undeserved in my opinion. By the way, a serious question: am I right to be disturbed by some of the remarks here?

And, on a lighter note, some new articles to gladden us: Manufacturing in Romania, High technology in Romania and especially Automobiles in Romania - I love how that one says zero about even Dacia, not to mention Malaxa. Of course, Banks in Romania, Transport in Romania, Mining industry in Romania, Energy production in Romania, International reserves of the National Bank of Romania (?), and especially Tourism in Romania, Foreign trade of Romania, Petrochemical industry in Romania, Industry of Romania, Services in Romania and Agriculture in Romania (!) have that same "it all started just yesterday" feeling. Redirecting at least some to Economy of Romania (another self-promotional piece) might be a good place to start, for now. Biruitorul ^Talk 14:01, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

An Unforgettable Summer

On 31 May, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article An Unforgettable Summer, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 19:24, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Film

I think a "thank you" for adding the url addresses would have been enough. As citation templates are pretty standard on Wikipedia I consider it a bit strong you're talking about "forcing them into an article". BTW I don't mind if you remove those (though I don't know why that red link of one of the NYT journalists is necessary and the date for one of the articles seems to be wrong now). Squash Racket (talk) 14:23, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, these templates didn't significantly change the actual layout in the "References" section. But still, it looked a bit different and it's not a requirement to use these.

Cumbersome and restrictive? I think templates make editing more flexible (new editors don't need to examine the accepted style in every single article), easy to use, kind of an (optional) standard format, in higher rated articles I mostly see these.

Probably I overreacted a bit, let's move on. Squash Racket (talk) 07:37, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Excessive undoing other's edits

You have already broken the 3 reversions per day rule on the List of princes of Moldavia. I don't want to report you because I think it would only bring your radicalization. So please respect Wikipedia policies and cease further undoing of other's edits. Moldopodo, if you're reading this, please abstain from reporting him. Xasha (talk) 20:03, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

BTW, I see you've contributed a lot to Regulamentul Organic. Do you happen to have the original text of the one granted to Moldavia?Xasha (talk) 20:44, 1 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXVII (May 2008)

The May 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 00:18, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

FYI

Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Greier. Khoikhoi 02:56, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

6/3 DYK

On 3 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article The Reenactment, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--Bedford ^Pray 07:03, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

aboard the good ship Wikipedia...

...you're not one to talk about being absent from the Wiki, dear, I am. One thing on top of another, like you said--exams, concerts, traveling, getting unexpectedly recruited as research assistant on a recording project...it's been a weird few months. I hope to get a little Wiki-work done in the next few days before heading off to an internetless village in Italy for a month....ajjajjajj.... :) K. Lásztocska^talk 19:57, 3 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks

Thanks for the voice of support at the Infobox Writer talk page. It looks like most of people are busy with "important" colour issues, hence it is probable no one else would comment on this proposal. After few days I guess I can add both parameters myself without screwing up the infobox. I remember same proposal was raised several months ago by one of our Ukrainian friends, several others supported him but no changes were made. OK, time for another Romania-question :). I've read somewhere it is a real football fever now in Romania? Is that true and will you watch the Euro? I think Romania has a very good team, no big stars but a teamwork spirit. Coach Piţurcă is quite confident you will advance from the group of death. I will hope so, too, or at least please eliminate those Italians. :) - Darwinek (talk) 15:12, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No problem, the ethnicity in Central-Eastern Europe is a difficult thing. I am Polish minority in the Czech Republic. People from our minority mostly cheer up for the Czech and/or Polish team. Personally I favour Polish team. Czechs are too confident always. Two years ago they thought they could make a medal at the World Cup, he he. :) They were convinced a group with Ghana, USA and Italy is very easy. Well, we know how it ended up. :) This year they think only Portugal is a worthy adversary, Switzerland is viewed as a weak team and Turkey as some third-world-easy-to-beat team. Fans are also confident that the team will advance from the second place. I think they will end up in the group this year. Too weak squad, offense need 10 clear chances to score two goals, defense is not reliable. Only goalie Petr Čech is top-quality. There is a completely opposite situation with Poland. Polish fans love their team but are still disappointed after last two World Cup affairs. They think Poland will end up in the group but secretly believe they could make it to the quarterfinals. I am one of them :). Impotent attack and slow defense is our problem. We'll see nonetheless. Romania has one advantage, France and the Netherlands are not in their best form and they likely underestimate you as some "third world" team. If Romania will advance, it can beat anybody. Who would bet his money on Greece four years ago? :) I think the black horses of this Euro are Romania, Russia and Turkey, maybe also Croatia. I smell a surprise this year. :) As for the infobox, I will wait, lets say till Friday or Saturday, and then try to make desired changes. - Darwinek (talk) 19:23, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for kind words. :) I also much enjoy such inter-national conversations, they are even much better in person with a glass of beer. As for our minority, it is really a complicated question. We were quite strong until WWII, after it assimilation policies of the Czechoslovak government were took over by the communists and it even accelerated. Until 1968 it can be said that most of local Poles still wanted join the territory to Poland. After Prague Spring it all changed. Czechoslovak communists were making a reform and local Poles supported them but communists from Poland, who also sent "brotherly army" seen us as anti-communist revisionists. Local Poles were disapointed and began to feel Czechoslovakia as their country. After 1989 assimilation even more accelerated as people began thinking more materially and young people often found kind of oldish and silly to participate in cultural and social life of their community. It is sad to see one culture disappearing day by day, they will be closing another Polish school probably this year. Thanks for the link to Mitică article, very professional article by the way, I enjoyed mostly the part about historical-political significance.

Well, it is very interesting you said Romanians are viewing Czechs as the most-German of all Slavic nations. So do Poles. :) And to be honest, it is one of the true stereotypes. It is rooted in history when Czechs under the (let's face it) liberal Austria-Hungary were constanly under the influence of more powerful German neighbours. Czechs nowadays often don't like to hear that but the German influence can be seen everywhere, the cliche that Germans built all here is partly true. It can be seen in almost all towns in the country, even more in former ethnic German areas. I always gently smile when somewhere a railroad station is renovated or some cheap clothing store ripped apart and suddenly old German inscriptions appear. :) It can be seen also on cemeteries although many German graves have been sold to Czech people now as German families now living in Germany/Austria are no longer interested in it. Czechs themselves are, as Germans, calm and considerate and not much emotional. Commercial TVs now try to reverse the latter but it looks silly and unnatural. In mentality Czechs have much more common with Germans/Austrians than with Poles or Slovaks, this applies also economically.

Back to football, well Koller (beautiful "Czech" name) is a good player and also intelligent unlike many his younger teammates, he have had however some affairs in the past. In a qualifier against Iceland away, Czechs screwed it up and Koller kicked his shirt which he stripped off before. It was a huge scandal, how can a player representing his country can kick his holy shirt. Several other talents are in the Euro squad, as Daniel Pudil, called "Pan Pudil" (Mr. Pudil) after his official record in police protocols (drunk driving). He was called off the squad after he injured his hand in a bar fight... Czechs also have several hair-gel ones but it is not widespread. From your description I initially thought you were speaking about Italy or Portugal. I have no idea that hair-gel mania came also to your national team.

Mentality is one of the most important factors in contemporary football, when anybody can beat anybody. I remember how the Poles underestimated Ecuador (as some negroes) two years ago and Koreans in 2002 (as some -racial slur for Asians-). Same was with Czechs and Ghana, when Czechs were 100% sure before the match they will win, because some poor Africans can't beat them. It was clearly a mistake of the staff, players spat blood after 60 minutes and were stricken by convulsions while Ghanaians were flying on the field. After the match Polish Minister of Justice Zbigniew Ziobro still wondered how it was possible for that negroes who play barefoot and have no stadiums (quote) to beat civilized Czechs. You can always say for TV you believe it will be a tough match and your opponent is valuable but deep inside you can believe it will be easy game and that's deadly. - Darwinek (talk) 22:05, 4 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Victor Rebengiuc

On 5 June, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Victor Rebengiuc, which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

--BorgQueen (talk) 13:55, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Voting

Hi! Here is a voting about Bendery/Bender/Tighina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Bender%2C_Moldova#Statement_of_Title_Solution —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.142.252.220 (talk) 18:15, 5 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Update

Hello. I've made proper changes to the Infobox Writer. It should work OK now, you can try it on one of your great articles about writers. P.S. I noticed there were many minority players in the Romanian national team in the past, mostly Hungarians. How the situation is today? Are there any minority players in contemporary Romanian team? I recall Serbian Miodrag Belodedici played a while ago. - Darwinek (talk) 14:42, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No problems with long delays. As you can see, I am also familiar with them. :) Unfortunately you didn't advance from the group of death. Mutu will have nightmares for a long time, bad dreams about his crap penalty kick against Italy. Aaarghh, those Italians. I don't know the general feelings in the Czech Rep. about Italian people but when it comes to football I dare say Czechs don't like (or hate?) Italians. The only people cheering for Italy I've met in my life were girls who watch some match once a year on TV. Maybe that's why people here kept fingers crossed for Romania. Hope it will end up good next time but I don't know if any of your crucial players from Chivu-Mutu generation will not end international career after Euro. It will be hard to get to the World Cup though - for Romanians, Poles and Czechs alike. - Darwinek (talk) 16:35, 20 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The brains trust

Greetings, Dahn - I happened to see Darwinek's talk page; my deepest sympathies. Your relative is in my prayers - even if nothing can be done, a good death (to the extent that is possible) is a thing to be wished for (I Corinthians 15:53-57). But I know you are not a praying man, so let me say what I wanted to say, which is that this seems so wrong, so obvious, and its implications so chaotic, I couldn't even think of a valid "oppose" rationale. However, given the circumstances, I'm sure I can think something up on my own. Be well, Biruitorul ^Talk 02:50, 12 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think I should take this opportunity to offer my condolences, too. Condoleanţele mele. --Kuaichik (talk) 20:36, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Origins of Romanians

I'm trying to mediate an edit war, however we may need your help on this one. Yours trully, traitor to his homeland / Romanian impersonator, Plinul cel tanar (talk) 11:51, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

... and I'm letting that article be. I don't have to put up with that. Plinul cel tanar (talk) 15:15, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]