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User talk:Colipon/archive2From September 2006 to March 2007. Falun Gong Sarcasm
In response to your questions1)I've studied Falun Gong in North America and in Taiwan (I currently live in Taiwan), but not in Mainland China. 2)As much as I know about the inner workings of the CCP, which is a fair amount, I certainly know a lot more about the inner workings of Falun Gong practitioners. 3)I would say that I know Mao's background better than Mr.Li's. There's a whole lot more info available on Mao than on Mr. Li. 4)I've taken undergraduate courses on Chinese history, art, religion, and poli sci. I've also done a fair amount of research on my own. I've written papers on the Taiping Rebellion, so I'm quite familiar with it (and I think Falun Gong is rather different). I'm also quite familiar with the Korean Tonghak rebellion, which is often compared with the Taiping Rebellion. Hope that answers your questions --Mcconn 15:22, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
I feel sorry for you, Communist dog.You can never ever assimilate in Western culture, all the years of brainwashing in hte Mainland ensured that is so. When will you ever get out of the box? Think outside the box- you heard of that???????? Chinese people are so dumb.........
ArbcomInformal mediator WikieZach| talk is preparing to move the Falun Gong mediation case to the Wikipedia:Arbcom. I have been asked to alert concerned (to the best of my knowledge) editors about this matter. Thank you. --Fire Star 火星 23:12, 5 September 2006 (UTC) Vandalism removedUser:MAOZEcriminAL vandalised your user page, so I reverted it as you were away at the time. I left his jibe on your talk page though, as I thought you might get a kick out of it or something. John Smith's 11:28, 9 September 2006 (UTC) Semi-protectionIf you would like, your user talk page can be protected from editing by IPs. —Centrx→talk • 18:08, 15 October 2006 (UTC) TfD nomination of Template:1996 Leaders of the Asia Pacific Economic Co-operation Leaders’ ForumTemplate:1996 Leaders of the Asia Pacific Economic Co-operation Leaders’ Forum has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Indon (reply) — 10:11, 3 November 2006 (UTC) Hello, I'm sorry it's been awhile, but I recently agreed to mediate that case. I don't know if it's a stale issue, so it would be good if a few of you let me know whether or not mediation is still needed. Since there are so many of you, I'm going to assume that all of you agree to me mediating until and unless I am told otherwise. I'm also going to assume public mediation is fine, unless someone asks for private mediation, or I come to think private mediation might be better. I would, however, appreciate it if you just said something there to let me know if you are still around. Also, assuming you are still interested in mediation, please watchlist the page if you haven't already. Thanks! Armedblowfish (talk|mail) 02:57, 7 November 2006 (UTC) about Xiao Zhuang WenHi, Colipon, why did you move without discussing on the talk page? I think that Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager should be moved and Xiao Zhuang Wen should be redirected because Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager has a much longer edit history (from 12:21, 22 November 2003) than Xiao Zhuang Wen (from 22:49, 28 September 2006). --Neo-Jay 10:01, 18 December 2006 (UTC) Thanks for your reply. A solution is to move Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang back to Xiao Zhuang Wen and then requet to move Xiaozhuangwen Grand Empress Dowager to Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang at Wikipedia:Requested moves. See Talk:Empress Dowager Xiaozhuang. --Neo-Jay 20:45, 19 December 2006 (UTC) more on Falun GongOn Jsw's talk page you mentioned that you think Falun Gong has characteristics of a cult, and I wonder if we could discuss this further. I will start by saying some things, then you can respond, and we may progress towards understanding. I think that this would be beneficial. I will tell you some things; you may know them already. Falun Gong practitioners meditate and read the Dafa books. Now they are also doing a lot of things to tell people about the persecution against Falun Gong in China. None of the teachings in Falun Gong tell practitioners to do bad things. The teachings have as their focus telling people how to do good things, and think in good ways. In conflicts, Falun Gong practitioners are supposed to look inside themselves for the reasons and then improve themselves. The basis of it is personal improvement and attempting to increase self-knowledge and self-understanding, and the goal is complete self-knowledge and understanding, attaining the Tao, 返本歸真, 圓滿, probably you know those. I won't say too much more here. Maybe you have some misgivings and you think that practitioners worship Li Hongzhi, or that their understanding of Li Hongzhi is one that you do not think is true. I can only put it that way. I don't know what you think or if you want to discuss this with me, so I won't say more on that point yet. One main thing I should say is that despite what you think about the teachings or the beliefs of Falun Gong practitioners, those things are not harmful, they are not telling people to do bad things, and they are not actually bad. Falun Gong practitioners are being tortured, raped, beaten, burned, and simply executed in China right now. The CCP has also been taking the organs from live Falun Gong practitioners for sale, and incinerating the bodies. Did you know that? Have you read the Kilgour-Matas report? Maybe what I am saying is hard to believe, so I would recommend you read that report, which looks at the evidence in a pretty straightfoward way. What is happening to Falun Gong practitioners is completely unjustified, totally unjust, and it is really shocking and horrible. If you do not know where to read this information, or you have not read it before, I can give you some links. It is very well documented by many third parties. You also said that a lot of the commentary has been from a western perpsective. Can you tell me what you mean by that? Most of the things I have read are sort of recounting the tortures that Falun Gong practitioners have undergone at the hands on police, along with photos... Do you think an Asian based human rights organisation would do it better? So I guess I don't really understand that comment. If you respond then we can discuss it further. --Asdfg12345 23:48, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
I am nearly twenty one. I am Australian by nationality, and my home is in the capital, Canberra. I am in my third year of an arts degree, majoring in philosophy and english. I am from a middle class family. I am not sure what more information you would like, if I am giving you the kind of information you want, and I do not understand why you would ask me for that information. I had some reluctance to say things about myself and was going to respond to your question with another one: "Why?", but I guess it is fine, though I don't really understand. Anyway, I will tell you some more. Over the course of one or two years I read books about philosophy, mysticism, and also supernormal things. From philosophy what most interested me were writers like Plato and Spinoza - I do not like 20th century european philosophy, like postmodernism etc. Also, I found a writer called Colin Wilson who has written several books compiling a large amount of information about paranormal events or things that cannot be explained with our current empirical/materialistic model of understanding ourselves and the universe. Reading one of his books led me to finding out about an Armenian mystic called Gurdjieff, who lived in the early 20th century. His writings influenced my thinking a lot. He had a pupil called Ouspensky who wrote a great deal about higher dimensions and introduced a completely new way of thinking to me. His book Tertium Organum had a very strong influence on my thinking, and soon afterwards I encountered Falun Gong. I do not consider these occurences coincidental. I initially had a strong intention to study political science but my interest in it faded and these other things gave me different ways to think, and particularly to understand the meaning of human suffering, which I initially woke me up to questions about the meaning of life and the universe in the first place. If you have never read these things or taken an interest in them I do not think you will understand me, the way I think, or truly understand Falun Gong. In the last discussion I had with a university friend I found that my understanding of reality is incompatible with political interests and that I am also no longer able to participate in discussions about those topics, as it is absolutely and fundamentally unrelated to what I think at this time. We were talking about Marxism and I think some other modern stuff. I notice that you have studied history, sociology and politics, and those things are so far different from what I have in my head. I think that in the things one comes across in this world people interpret them through their own particular tools of understanding or comprehension - either political theories, sociological theories, philosophical theories, whatever it is... For me, I am looking at things in a particular way as well. I am sure you have seen the film The Matrix, and maybe you have also read Plato's story about the Cave? That is pretty much what I think, this reality we are presented with, three dimensions, our bodies, this environment - our world - the general understanding of life and death, suffering, everything, is a complete delusion, it is totally fake, and not true at all. I had thought this before I practiced Falun Gong. So when it comes to the things that happen here I pretty much do not have a view of them, I understand them all as cause-and-effect relationships playing out, and that human beings are totally lost in delusion and do not realise it. I think it is sort of inevitable, this state, and it has to be this way. I think the purpose of human existence is to rise out of this and return to a state of completion or truth, or full realisation of being. I do not know if I am helping you, or this is what you wanted me to write. I interpret your question to me to be for the purpose of finding out about me so you have some idea of who I am.. though I guess in the end I do not understand how that could be related to responding to me. I have written a fair bit, so I do apologise if this is not what you were after. I have written this to help to orient things. In the end my purpose of communicating to you is to tell you that Falun Gong is not bad. Falun Gong practitioners meditate and read books, wish to harm no one, and understand themselves to be living for the purpose of realising the truth of their existence. This will not harm anyone, society, or anything. It is actually good for the people around them, because they are always trying to be kind and conduct themselves well... There is also the insane and brutal genocide... I could write a great deal more, and I could write for a very long time about many more subjects, to explain myself more. Sorry this is so long. I hope this helps. Look forward to your response.--Asdfg12345 23:43, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
yeah it's right. I sometimes see people write their emails in words, and I assume it is to prevent spam. Maybe there are people trawling the web through some automated method, collecting email addresses to add to junk email list... just send me an email when you have the inclination explaining those things. you mentioned that you would think it rude to debate with me about my beliefs, well, if you want to it is fine with me. I would not find that offensive and I would try to explain to you what I could. Of course, whatever you want. Anyway, I await your email. I will add you to my messenger later, but I don't really use it. Other thing is, I don't know if it was deliberate or not, or signified anything, but you described it as a "crackdown"... I assume you are aware of the circumstances under which Falun Gong practitioners are treated in Mainland China, if you weren't I said some things to you above, and I can give you those links. Another thing is that I hope what I just said does not sound sharp. I have found that I say things with a sharp tone sometimes, so I am mentioning it here to say that I hope what I want to be communicated can be communicated minus any negative feelings... okay, hear from you soon, happy news years! (PS: don't you think it would be really incongruent for me to lie about my age? especially 21 from Canberra!?)--Asdfg12345 00:36, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
I sent an email to hongshi_fang@hotmail.com, maybe it was automatically put in the trashcan, that is not your email address, or you are busy. Anyway, it was longish so I won't copy it all here, but I will copy the last part. Do not respond on my userpage because I will not be using wikipedia again until feb. Respond to the hotmail address, or asd@mm.st. Here is the section:
As for Jsw, I don't know what to say. I hope he can find his conscience.--Asdfg12345 15:48, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
Image:Bo Xilai.jpgThanks for uploading Image:Bo Xilai.jpg. I notice the 'image' page specifies that the image is being used under fair use, but its use in Wikipedia articles fails our first fair use criterion in that it illustrates a subject for which a freely licensed image could reasonably be found or created that provides substantially the same information. If you believe this image is not replaceable, please:
Alternatively, you can also choose to replace the fair use image by finding a freely licensed image of its subject, requesting that the copyright holder release this (or a similar) image under a free license, or by taking a picture of it yourself. If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our fair use criteria. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on this link. Note that any fair use images which are replaceable by free-licensed alternatives will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. MECU≈talk 23:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC) Image tagging for Image:Hohhot.jpgThanks for uploading Image:Hohhot.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the source and creator of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the source and creator of the image on the image's description page, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided source information for them as well. For more information on using images, see the following pages: This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 09:00, 4 January 2007 (UTC) ResponseI thought we agreed before that there couldn't be a totally NPOV FLG entry... but that doesn't mean we should give up. It only takes one to do nothing for a sect (or whatever FLG is) to spread outrageous bias not in keeping with Wiki rules. Jsw663 18:25, 18 January 2007 (UTC) Mr. Fang, Thanks for the message. I wrote critically about the Falun Gong in Singtao Daily, the largest Chinese newspaper in the Bayarea in 1999 and 2000. The Falun Gong sued the Singtao daily in New York area in 2000, and I was told that the Singtao would not publish any article (pro or con) about this group again. Since 2002, I have helped American cult experts like Dr. Margaret Singer to understand the Falun Gong; most Falun Gong literatures were only available in Chinese at the time. In 2003, I participated in a Falun Gong panel in a conference held by the American Family Foundation. In the same year I built my first website, the one you are using right now is the 3rd website developed last year. --Samuel Luo 22:57, 21 January 2007 (UTC) Falungong health claimsGreetings. I do feel that the health studies the FLG people list in the article are flawed, studies conceived and managed by true believers to promote FLG. I support their removal. There is a similar syndrome at the Reiki article, a practise that also commissions its own studies (in "alternative" journals) to promote their brand of snake oil. --Fire Star 火星 21:57, 23 January 2007 (UTC) Image copyright problem with Image:Forbidden_City_Starbucks.jpgThanks for uploading Image:Forbidden_City_Starbucks.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images. If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days. If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well. For more information on using images, see the following pages: This is an automated notice by OrphanBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 09:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC) Gao Zhisheng's letters and a couple of questionsI wonder if you have read Gao Zhisheng's open letters to the CCP leadership? I link them for you here, Colipon: http://hrw.org/english/docs/2006/10/03/china14299.htm,
"...The 15 days of investigation again showed me the painful truth. The 6-10 Office is—or at least can be called—a gang that exists within the political power of the nation, yet is higher than the political power. It is a gang that can control and regulate all political resources. Although it is an organization that exists outside of the Constitution and the regulations of the country’s power structure, the 6-10 Office is using many powers that are only supposed to be used by agencies of the national government, and even many powers that are beyond those of agencies of the national government. It uses powers that don’t belong and have never belonged to the nation since the beginning of mankind’s political civilization on this earth. We can see that the power symbolized by the number 6-10 continues to “interface” with the public through ways such as killing a person’s physical body and spirit, shackles, chains, electric shock tortures, and “tiger benches.” “The nature of this power has become that of a criminal gang. It continues to torture our mothers, sisters, children, and our entire nation. Mr. Hu and Mr. Wen, as members of our nation in special positions at this time, and especially as individuals who are perceived by the majority of the public as being conscientious, you should face everything together with all of us. At this moment, with a trembling heart and a trembling pen, I am writing down the tragic experiences of those who have been persecuted in the last six years. Among the true accounts of unbelievable brutality, among the records of the government’s inhuman torture of its own people, the immoral acts that shocked my soul the most were the lewd yet routine practice of attacking women’s genitals by 6-10 Office staff and the police. Almost every woman’s genitals and breasts or every man’s genitals have been sexually assaulted during the persecution in a most vulgar fashion. Almost all who have been persecuted, be they male or female, were first stripped naked before any torture. No language or words could describe or re-create our government’s vulgarity and immorality in this respect. Who with a warm body could afford to stay silent when faced with such truths?"
Certain FG'ers real opinionsApparently this was aired here - [1]. I'll reproduce the text for you in full + unedited here, written by Happy_in_General: "I would note the quality of this page as unstable and BIASED therefore i would give it a 2 from a total of 5. As I see it, this page is written by only two groups, Chinese Communist Party members who have a direct interest (power, money, greed) to hide/obfuscate the details and the motives behind the Persecution of Falun Gong and Falun Gong practitioners who, since are not paid, I guess, would know the actual facts about Falun Gong since they are actually doing it daily. --HappyInGeneral 13:39, 31 December 2006 (UTC)" Shame really. But if their opinions on Wikipedia can only be justified by blatantly false allegations (which definitely constitutes as libel) then we need to take action to remedy this. This is why I've encouraged you to support the three-strike rule I proposed. Jsw663 22:29, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
SF Supes Support Homophobic Cult article in the BARYes, Colipon, I'm the same Thomas Brown the reporter refers to in this article. What did you think of it? I thought it was great reporting. The BAR article was circulated around the world via the internet. It was also read by all the local politicians, so now people in this little city know about Li's homopbobic teachings and his cultish control over the group. One of the supervisors said that some of the FG practitioners who were there to testify at the hearing (many of whom were bussed in from outside the city) were actually laughing when they did the Falun Gong exercises in the chambers. So much for FG being a serious meditation group. It's all about appearances and protecting the reputation of Li Hongzhi. I feel so sorry for the practitioners, because they are so obviously used by Li for his own agenda. Some day the truth will come out. --Tomananda 00:35, 30 January 2007 (UTC) quick response to studyWhy do you want a reply on the study, Colipon? How do you want me to reply, I could write something quickly in an ad-hoc way from memory, or I could go through it in more detail and cite it, then cite the teachings and discuss it that way. Let me know what kind of depth you expect, and why you want it. Actually, just quickly, I felt it was basically that guy writing his opinion about Dafa and Teacher, with a whole bunch of his own assumptions in the mix (the thing about "sickness", i think he even said something about practitioners just reading the books until they are dumb and brainwashed? sorry if that is not right)... I did not feel it was a very nuanced analysis at all. Anyway, the worst thing I guess which was the whole basis of it, that Zhuan Falun brought out the salvation thing and that is how Li Hongzhi made a motza differentiating himself from other qigong practices, which is simply not true, because Zhuan Falun is based on all the lectures he gave, and the lectures have the exact same content! Do you know what I am saying? Zhuan Falun is just a compilation of all the lectures, there was no real new content added in, and Li Hongzhi stated upfront that he came to offer this cultivation system, to let humankind practice cultivation and be saved. For the lectures, I think there are three available in Chinese that you can listen to. Of course it is the same content, so the stuff about salvation was there from the start. What this guy has written is simply wrong. Li Hongzhi has just taught the Fa and that is all he has done. I can give an in-depth reply if you like and cite some things, but this is just from memory. I'm sorry to be short. Why don't you either read Zhuan Falun all the way through, or listen to the lectures all the way through before coming up with all your opinions on Dafa? Please note that I am not asking you to do it or requesting that you do that. You will do what you like. I am asking you why havn't, and I would also like to ask how it is that you dare to say so many things about Dafa without having done so. So there were three sort-of questions there and a little bit of a reply. Please let me know about more critical stuff you find. I have read some of Penny's stuff, not strictly critical. If there is some good stuff I will spend a while responding to it. Some critics have said things that require attention. One thing I have found is that they usually do not have even the most basic grasp of the teachings of Falun Dafa and the concepts behind it, which makes what they write about it not really worth the time - this one is a good example. Most of the people reading it are probably in the same boat. Anyway, I think to some extent though you have drawn a line on this, and it will be fruitless to discuss with you more. If not, please tell me. I know that is the case for some of the other editors. Regards, Matt.--Asdfg12345 21:55, 30 January 2007 (UTC) Another thing, just quickly let me apologise if you feel that we are ignoring you. I did respond to what you said about the health study, I gave a quick response to the other thing then, and I also responded to your epoch times thing. I deliberately did all those things because you expressed your frustration with our lack of response. I am telling you this so you know that I am paying attention to what you are saying, and you should also note that I am investing my own time specifically in responding to you. The frustration is quite mutual. I have spent many hours writing things into wikipedia that have not gone anywhere either, and I also consider it due to editors' omissions. Anyway, for now there is a section on the introduction disucssion page about the third party views being included in the "situation in china" section. i request your attention.--Asdfg12345 23:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC) Don't take it from me. Go listen to the lectures. There are recordings available of the original lectures. Just listen to them. It is the same stuff as in Zhuan Falun. You don't need to take it from me or Dr. Lu, because it's all right there, and that guy is way off. I don't know what you expect from me. I have heard the lectures myself and they are the same as Zhuan Falun. The evidence is right there, you only need to go look for yourself. I am telling the truth. --Asdfg12345 21:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC) This is about your comments on the Epoch Times page re the actions practitioner have taken to expose the persecution and the history of the CCP:
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