User talk:CaPslOcksBroKEn

Stop vandalizing. You are about to be blocked

I am not vandalizing. I am correcting the facts. Gennady Golovkin does not have 20 title defenses of a MAJOR world title. The WBA (regular) and the IBO are not MAJOR world titles. Gennady Golovkin became a world champion on July 26 2014 against Daniel Geale after being elevated to the position of WBA SUPER champion. WBA Super champions are world champions. Therefore his title defenses began 10 title defenses ago.

that is original research. realible sources says he has made 20 defenses, so that is what we are going by.--Fruitloop11 (talk) 15:53, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If the WBA regular belt is a major world title then why isn't anyone saying that Deontay Wilder and Anthony Joshua need to fight Manuel Charr to become undisputed?

May 2018

You have been blocked from editing for a period of 24 hours for edit warring. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.

If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  Ronhjones ^(Talk) 16:16, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Unblock

This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy).

CaPslOcksBroKEn (block log • active blocks • global blocks • contribs • deleted contribs • filter log • creation log • change block settings • unblock • checkuser (log))

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Request reason:

Since I was told of my imminent blockage I have not made any opposing edits CaPslOcksBroKEn (talk) 16:19, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Decline reason:

For the block to be invalid, you must show you didn't engage in any edit warring at all. Yamla (talk) 18:45, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Canelo Álvarez

Greetings. Your edits at Canelo Álvarez tend to affect several articles (at least four), and need consensus due to differing sources. I highly recommend starting a new discussion at Talk:List of lineal boxing world champions for this to be straightened out. As I'm sure you know, there's already been a similar mess regarding Tyson Fury. Mac Dreamstate (talk)

Why so hasty? Discussion has been started, so there is no need to revert to your revision until consensus has been reached by WikiProject Boxing. This is poor form on your part. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 23:51, 16 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Again, this is very poor form by you. You're edit warring without waiting for a consensus to be reached at the above talk page. Do I need to go to WP:EWN? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:43, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The most recent page I changed was the list of boxing champions. I do not understand how this can be considered edit warring as on Alvarez's Wikipedia page it says in his most recent victory that he won the vacant lineal middleweight championship. Regardless of my opinion on whether he 'vacated' it or not, it is correct according to Wikipedia. I think it is poor form to have inconsistencies on this matter.

On top of this, the latest accepted version of Saúl's Wikipedia page shows this. So if this is the consensus currently, by listing him as the lineal champion I am not edit warring. You are showing poor form by not noticing these details and threatening to block me as a result of your ignorance.

You're misunderstanding what I mean by stable revisions. For most of 2017 and up until last week's fight, Álvarez was not listed as the lineal champion at his own article, nor at the list of boxing champions or lineal champions. Those were the stable revisions I'm referring to. You were the one who recently (within the past 72 hours) added the lineal title back to those articles, which is now the disputed revision. It's really not that difficult to simply wait until other editors have weighed at the discussion, before repeatedly restoring your revision of the article(s).

And I'm not threatening to block anyone—no need to make this a "big drama show", when WP:EWN is standard practice in situations like this. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 23:15, 17 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I do have disputed revisions on these pages, but the current latest accepted version of Saúl's boxing record shows that in his last fight, he won the vacant lineal middleweight title. So to not list him on the other articles as such shows an inconsistency that shouldn't be there.

On another note, if we are going to differ from our most used source (The CBZ) when it comes to listing the lineal champions then how is that not considered original research?

The "current latest accepted version" does not invalidate that the previous revision describing him as a former lineal champion, which went largely unchallenged since May 2017, was the stable revision. That, plus the three other articles. Yours is not a stable revision, as there has been edit-warring going on for the past week from all comers. Therefore, the stable revision from May 2017 to August 2018 should be retained until consensus has been reached. This is basic practice on WP.

CBZ is certainly not the most used source for lineal champions on WP—not sure where you got that from. For a while it's been a mix of TBRB, CBZ, and whatever else can be dredged up from mainstream media. In fact, the discussion on which sources we are to use for lineal champions has so far been inconclusive, and clearly needs restarting. I invite you to join in with that discussion as well—the more editors on board, the better. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 00:00, 18 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

At this time I am not arguing the 'former lineal champion status' I am arguing that according to the current latest accepted version shows that he won the VACANT title in his last fight. Also, when it comes to the list of lineal champions in each division Wikipedia does not use any other source apart from CBZ as The TBRB does not maintain a list. So to clarify, when it comes to listing current and former lineal champions on Wikipedia the only source we use is the CBZ, which differs from what is present, meaning that any opposing edits are original research.

As I keep saying—we need a diverse collection of sources saying that the vacant lineal title was up for grabs last week, and it needs discussing at Talk:List of lineal boxing world champions rather than here. Let's continue this discussion there.

The TBRB does not maintain a historical list, but they maintain a current list of whom they consider lineal champions, and are an actual organisation unlike CBZ. Your insistence that CBZ is the only authority on lineal champions, and all else being WP:OR, strikes me as odd. On what are you basing this? Mac Dreamstate (talk) 00:21, 18 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This is my last post here simply in response to your second paragraph. I have a large list of disagreements that I have with the CBZ, but since Wikipedia claims that the official list of the lineal boxing champions is maintained by CBZ, I would assume that we would not be diverging from it based on our own original research. Especially since Wikipedia supposedly does not use original research. At the end of the day, the only two sources we use when it comes to listing the historical to present list of lineal champions and the biggest problem we have with it is that only one of these sources maintain a "complete" list of these champions. Also, since these two sources have differing opinions on one of the current champions, the current structure of the list should show these disputes rather than a combination of both sources without citations

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June 2019

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did at Elwin Soto. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Repeated vandalism may result in the loss of editing privileges. Thank you. CASSIOPEIA^(talk) 11:10, 22 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry, but Elwin Soto is not undefeated. You have reverted facts to lies. I hope you feel better about yourself now that you are making this site less useful. Unconstructive edits do not count as showing a fighter's record as it truly is. Unconstructive edits are those that blatantly LIE and say that Soto, who lost to Danny Andujo, didn't do what happened. You should be ashamed of yourself. This is pathetic.

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Daniel Roman (boxer)

There was a cleanup template on the page Daniel Roman (boxer) requesting it be reversed so it would be in chronological order. I reversed the order and removed the template. You reverted my change (and at least you left an edit comment) but this also restored the clean template. So you have moved it back to reverse chronological order AND there is a cleanup template requesting it be changed. Are you going to remove the cleanup template? RJFJR (talk) 13:57, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I was unaware about the cleanup template. I have since removed it. CaPslOcksBroKEn 13:32, 28 August 2019 (EST)

Hector Acero-Sanchez moved to draftspace

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A few reverts

I reverted a few of your edits across three different articles where you removed links from the record table. I’m presuming your rationale for removing them was because you thought they were already linked, but the previous links directed to lists of world champions to the relevant sanctioning body and the links you removed directed to the individual articles such as weight classes and the sanctioning bodies themselves. I explained this in the edit summaries but just wanted to leave you a message so you didn’t think my reverts were anything untoward, they just popped up in my watchlist is all. — ^2.O.^Boxing 00:12, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Need your assistance here 2

You seem to care very much about this while I do not. Unless the vandalism is happening on my talk page, (which I will not restore, because I do not care) why don't you do it? There is nothing for me to come clean about, because all I do is edit boxing careers. You on the other hand seem to not know what a hypocrite is as somehow you think I am one for not caring about talk pages. These pages are not meant for the general public and therefore, I do not see the need to restore them.

again you always seem to contradict yourself as wikihypocrites specialize in; since you gave reply; it is appropraite to reply!

en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:List_of_lineal_boxing_world_champions&diff=907593573&oldid=903926797

en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:CaPslOcksBroKEn&diff=913403226&oldid=912910856 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.255.47.127 (talk) 21:02, 22 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Draft:Hector Acero-Sanchez concern

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WikiProject Boxing

Greetings. Just letting you know that your latest posts at WikiProject Boxing, regarding lineal titles and newspaper decisions, have not gone unnoticed. I'm just unable to make time to engage in extensive discussions at this moment due to work and domestic issues. I assure you I will have a response to your posts in due time, unless others have come up with their own ideas by then. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 19:13, 10 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Take your time. There is no rush. These are not exactly time sensitive subjects considering how long they've been listed as such. CaPslOcksBroKEn (talk) 05:15, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Joe Jeanette

Hi. Welcome to Wikipedia, and thanks for working to improve the site with your edits to Joe Jeanette, as we really appreciate your participation. However, the edits had to be reverted, because Wikipedia cannot accept uncited material. Wikipedia requires that the material in its articles be accompanied by reliable, verifiable (usually secondary) sources explicitly cited in the article text in the form of an inline citation, which you can learn to make here. If you ever have any other questions about editing, or need help regarding the site's policies, just let me know by leaving a message for me in a new section at the bottom of my talk page. Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 20:41, 19 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

So, I used boxrec.com which is the official record keepers of boxing. This is cited on his Wikipedia article and I really don’t appreciate having 166 fights reverted as it took me quite a while to do. I get that you saw the different name and just assumed they were all unsourced, but that doesn’t negate 166 fight results from the official record keepers of boxing. Go to his boxrec look at his name as listed by (again) the official record keepers of boxing, and then think about how un constructive it is to delete a professional boxing record because it was an edit done by someone that you believed to not have sources. CaPslOcksBroKEn (talk) 21:18, 19 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Re: Flagicons: the rematch

Greetings. I can try to churn a few of these out, but my days of messing around with record tables was a long time ago. If we end up with a consensus to zap flags, I might gain more motivation. Also bear in mind, consensus could swing the other way (or stay the same) in that flagicons are retained. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 11:22, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If things go the other way we will need to teach people what historical flags are.....ex. compared to . It creates an issue of people not knowing that the Canadian flag hasn't been the same since the beginning of time...CaPslOcksBroKEn (talk) 19:09, 4 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Re: US to U.S.

This is just adherence to WP's own MOS:USA. The UK does not use dots for US (nor is it ever "U.K".), therefore a record table for a British-based boxer should use "US". I would interpret that to mean Europe as well. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 21:12, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Then for the consistency of the site, all fighters should have no dots, including American based boxers.CaPslOcksBroKEn (talk) 21:18, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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David Price

Greetings. This edit is more far-reaching than you may think, so I had to revert to the stable edition until it can be discussed further at the Project. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:30, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

How can keeping the result as shown on boxrec.com "Boxing's official record keeper" be far-reaching? CaPslOcksBroKEn (talk) 20:41, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

You may be misinterpreting the meaning of "far-reaching". It means "to have an effect on something else", in this case other articles. Regardless, I've started discussion at the Project. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:46, 2 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox newspaper results

Greetings CaPs. I'd like to get this sorted for you. Would you prefer all newspaper results (win/loss/draw) to be combined into a single field like nws=, or separately like nws_win=, nws_loss=, nws_draw=? I'm not sure if I've ever tinkered with the infobox, but I can certainly try, or at least put in a request at Template talk:Infobox boxer. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 20:36, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for offering your help, Mac. I have been thinking it over and I think the best thing we can do is create a new option for no decisions as that is how they have historically been referred to. I remember trying to figure it out a while ago, but I could not understand the coding. While it would be neat to show their record only in newspaper decisions, I feel that it somewhat misses the point for people who both recognize them and do not. Those who recognize them virtually always count both official and unofficial wins, while those who do not either ignore their existence or call them no decisions. Being able to show both records in the infobox at the top right would be great to add. We just need an option for no decisions both there and in the professional record summary. The most important issue we need resolved is the boxing record summary as having a yellow column which says "Newspaper decisions/draws" to be replaced with no decisions. If we take a look at Jimmy Wilde's boxing record's (either one) scroll down to his 61st fight and what is showing is a no decision that has no results with newspapers. That fight against Ivor Meredith was not a no contest, yet this is where we have to place the fight in the record summary despite the fact that they fought a full 10 rounds against each other. Even modern fighters like Buck Smith will be affected positively by this as he had a slew of no decision bouts, most famously his 15 round fight versus Harold Brazier.CaPslOcksBroKEn (talk) 22:38, 11 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"No decision" will confuse readers with "no contest", as they are used interchangeably in modern boxing. We already have a newspaper decision article which explains this, so I see no reason not to use the labelling I suggested above. For simplicity, nws= makes sense as it would just lump all newspaper decisions (win/loss/draw) into a single field, with the figure then added to the existing total= for every single fight in which a boxer has participated.

And I'm referring to the infobox only; NWS results in the record table (displaying which colour, etc.) is a different matter we can address another time. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 17:40, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

But lumping no decisions and no contests together is the problem. There is a distinct difference and currently the lack of difference is part of what confuses readers. A no contest cannot happen after the final bell has rung, yet that is what no decisions are. At the very least, we need to change the name of the newspaper decisions as listing "newspaper decisions/draws" is not accurate and leads to more confusion than anything on what these fights are. If we are not going to add a separate indicator for no decisions, we should at the very least lump them together in their name so that readers can see "no contests/no decisions" as simply lumping them together without indicating so is not really clear at all.

I have already been using gray for the color of the fights in the record table. When I said to change the color of NWS, I meant in the info box. See Jack Britton and look at the offical record infobox for the color and also the words used which can easily confuse less educated people on these fights. I really cannot be content with it being called "newspaper decisions/draws" because we already have a column for the draws.CaPslOcksBroKEn (talk) 17:52, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

We can use a ref/note thingy in total= to make the inclusion of newspaper decisions more discreet than is currently displayed in Britton's infobox. An example of this usage can be seen for Terence Crawford.

Once again, I am not addressing the record table layout at this time; just the infobox. You may be confusing the infobox with Template:Boxing record summary, which forms part of the record table. This is an infobox. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 18:06, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, I understand now. I believe that the info box should list both versions of the record so long as it is not too clunky.CaPslOcksBroKEn (talk) 18:21, 5 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sam Langford edits

When I saw your edits to the Sam Langford article, I noticed a number of times in the article it says "McVey claimed a foul. This was not allowed and he refused to continue". Since I know very little about boxing, it sounds confusing to me, but I wasn't sure how to rephrase it to make it more clear. Can you suggest something?

As a layman, I'm guessing it means that McVey claimed a foul, and that an official did not agree; not that McVey was not allowed to claim a foul. And I'm also guessing the "he" was McVey that refused to continue boxing. Should I say "McVey claimed a foul, which was not upheld by the referee, so he refused to continue the fight." Thanks for your advice. I didn't want to clarify anything when I don't know what I'm talking about, and just relying on my hunches. _signed, Willondon (talk) 04:12, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I see how that could have been confusing. I rewrote it to "McVea claimed he was fouled. The ref disagreed and McVea refused to continue". I had simply copy and pasted what I found on his record according to boxrec.com (the source for his record(needs more updating to a Jennette result)) and thought nothing more of it. I decided to rewrite it from your recommendation as to keep the wording more simple and straight forward for those who may not be as well versed in English. It was also shorter, which is my main goal when adding necessary notes that can otherwise be lengthy as it stretches the notes section absurdly far. The only other solution for that has been to make multiple breaks, which also comes with it's own problem of sometimes stretching the individual fight to be longer vertically to the rest. For a great (annoying) example of this, go see how I worked through it on Barbados Joe Walcott's record in the case of his bout versus Dixie Kid.CaPslOcksBroKEn (talk) 18:29, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Looks good. I would have clarified it myself, but as I don't know what I'm talking about with boxing, I wasn't sure if I'd just end up make it wrong. Thanks. _signed, Willondon (talk) 18:42, 28 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Flagicons

I did some digging and found some of the larger discussions about these at WikiProject MMA. Thought you might like to have a read, because they form the basis of how we managed to get rid of them for boxing. We may also need to fall back on such discussions (i.e., lift the really good material by those editors who know their stuff) in case a bunch of IPs or new users arrive and demand to see them back:

• Discussion from March–April 2011
• Discussion from May 2011
• Discussion from June–July 2012
• Discussion from October–November 2012
• Discussion from December 2012

Mac Dreamstate (talk) 00:40, 2 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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I don't known what you are trying to achive by mass-removing the "nationality" parameter from infoboxes, but please stop it. --FMSky (talk) 08:45, 3 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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