User talk:Babakathy/Archive 1

This is an archive of past discussions with User:Babakathy. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

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Archive 5

Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, Babakathy, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Perspicacite 05:29, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, looking forward to it.Babakathy 12:19, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject Zimbabwe

You have been invited to join the WikiProject Zimbabwe, a collaborative effort focused on improving Wikipedia's coverage of Zimbabwe. If you'd like to join, just add your name to the member list. Thanks for reading!

Mangwanani 16:41, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Did, thanks Babakathy 18:23, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Greetings

Part 14:13, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to WikiProject Zimbabwe

Hi, Babakathy, and welcome to WikiProject Zimbabwe! We are a growing community of Wikipedia editors dedicated to identifying, categorizing, and improving articles relevant to Zimbabwe. Here are some points that may be helpful: Our main aim is to help improve Zimbabwe-related articles, so if people ask for help with an article, please try your hardest to help them if you are able. Most important discussions take place on the project's main discussion page; it is highly recommended that you watchlist it. The project has several ongoing and developing activities, such as the current collaboration, which you are welcome to participate. If you have another language besides English, please consider adding yourself to our translation section, to help us improve our foreign Zimbabwe topics. If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the talk page, and we will be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We hope you enjoy working on this project.

Revamp

Just to let you know, I have completely revamped the WikiProject Zimbabwe page so that it is more uniform to the layout and design of other WikiProjects. Please have a look and try to fill in any of the new sections created. Your help is much appreciated. Many thanks, Mangwanani 16:59, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

WPZW September

Hi,

	The current Zimbabwe WikiProject Collaboration of the Fortnight is Not applicable!
	Please read the nomination text and help improve the article to featured article standard if you can.

As the number of people taking part in WikiProject Zimbabwe grows, I have more and more people to notify of changes. If you havn't already done so, please could you add the notice board to your watch list so that I can add any changes there and only once not as many times as there are members. Many thanks, Mangwanani 13:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Barnstar

		Zimbabwean Barnstar of National Merit
		For continous work on Zimbabwe related article (especially Oliver Mtukudzi Awarded for contribution to WP:ZIM by Part 17:38, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup for Mushawe

You might want to change the article so it conforms to to the standards - images are normally on the right-hand side of the article. (See Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Images) Shootthedevgru (talk) 12:24, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Welcome!

Thank you thank ! I have been on a one man mission to put Mwenezi district on the map. I'm glad you have added stuff on Mushawe! Maranda! Awesome. i'm from Magomana Village just by Manyuchi Dam. Also, if you have pictures from Maranda...etc, put them up! Samwise Gamgee 14:50, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Image:Mankonkoni bridge.jpg

Hey, I just noticed that the above image says it was created in 2006, but Cyclone Eline passed through the area in 2000. I'm wondering if you clarify. Did you take the image earlier, or was the image taken in 2006 of a bridge that was destroyed by Cyclone Eline six years prior? ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 16:45, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Took photo in 2006, bridge destroyed in 2000 and not fixed. Babakathy (talk) 16:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Ah, ok. I just wanted to double check. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:46, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Image:Babakathy.JPG listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Babakathy.JPG, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Kelly ^hi! 04:59, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, delete it - was the old image on my user page. Babakathy (talk) 09:38, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Talk/humour

Therefore to vandalize a joke page editors should say something sensible, for example: the Vandals sacked Rome in 455.

Re: SineBot

Re: [1] – You most likely have raw signatures enabled. Try going to My Preferences ==> User profile tab ==> uncheck the "Raw signature" box and leave your normal username in the "Signature" box. Cheers =) --slakr^\ talk / 06:18, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

thanks Babakathy (talk) 06:25, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

Divine Mafa

"(removed section on political activity: unsourced material, cannot find elsewhere on web)"
Hi, it seems really hard to find verification of anything about this guy. Until I found those promotional artcles in the Memphis press, I was wondering if he was a real person and whether the page was a hoax.
I can't find anything useful about his father, either, which seems strange if he is such a prominent political activist.
You will have noticed that the whole page is littered with "citation needed". If you were to remove everything that can't be verified, you'd only be left with information about a shopkeeper that has come from sources of very "ordinary" reliability.
What do you think? Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 11:02, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I also wondered if he was real, till you found the press items - especially given the weird references. The political stuff was really bizarre though - original edit said that any conviction under POSA has a mandatory death sentence! I am also doubtful of his student activism, he certainly did not lead the student movement in 1994: this is when I was at University of Zimbabwe. His educational career may be true, but I cannot find any verification. Even if we assume it is true, being a Rhodes Scholar does not establish notability. As you say, that more or less just leaves Memphis. The only references to him I can find with google deal only with Memphis or with this page and its derivatives (such as Powerset). On that basis he is not notable and we are looking at deletion. This might actually be best. I have put a notability tag and a hoax tag to see if anyone responds. If not I suggest deletion. Babakathy (talk) 11:51, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Although I'm not keen on the deletion option, I feel I must agree that "This might actually be best". However, I'd prefer that we didn't rush into it, and gave plenty of time "to see if anyone responds".

(On a facetious note, I will be really sorry to see this photo go - it gives me a smile every time I visit the page, and the mind boggles at the nature of the relationship between Mafaism and that stock whip!! I can't imagine what message he's trying to convey, nor why he feels it will help sell his T-shirts!)

More seriously, if his father is such a prominent political activist, I imagine that you would have heard of him. Have you ever heard of his father?

Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

P.S. On the Rhodes Scholar issue, I was amused to see that "they" were trying to assert his notability by saying he was a "notable Rhodes Scholar" by virtue of appearing on the Notable Rhodes Scholars page!

On that page, on 11 March 2008, "they" first said his notability was:

Medical Biomechanics, Academic (University and Merton Colleges).

and then changed it to say:

Grandson of Ndebele's King Lobengula, son of Zimbabwe's opposition leader. Refused to formally graduate after completion of studies protesting the evil acts of the Rhodes Scholarship's founder,Cecil John Rhodes "I am now an educated black man. The money sponsorship for this scholarship from this evil man has taught me how to defeat the future evil Cecil John Rhodes." Divine Mafa, 1996

(But like you, I haven't been able to find any supporting evidence.)

Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Felix Magalela Mafa, sometimes Felix Magalela Mafa Sibanda, sometimes Felix Sibanda, is a Zimbabwean MP (Magwegwe). He was director of the Post Independence Survivors’ Trust (PIST), formed in 2004 and now listed on the NGO network as "Organisation not contactable as of August 2008 ". Since then he became a spoksperson and subsequently MP for MDC-M party in Bulawayo. Prior to PIST he was a spokesperson for the civil society pressure group, national Consitutional Assembly. There is reference to him as a civil service trade unionist (Zimbabwe Teachers’ Union) in the 1990s (1996). The link to D Mafa is also clear given references to his son "who is a doctor in the US" and his age of 60 yrs. But nothing re descent form Lobengula and nothing refers to what he may have done in the early 1980s if he led a nationwide nonviolent march in 1981. But I did find a source for the death of the brother. Re-readings this paragraph I rather think Felix Mafa is notable, certainly more so that Divine Mafa!

On the photo, see Baseball cap#fashion statement

Cheers, Babakathy (talk) 07:45, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

"On the photo, see Baseball cap#fashion statement" - OK! Now, what about the whip??

"Re-readings this paragraph I rather think Felix Mafa is notable, certainly more so that Divine Mafa!"

Agreed. (However, rather sadly, it wouldn't be all that hard to be "more so that Divine".)

Anyway, the reason I'm here is my interest in Rhodes Scholars. (On the whole, they tend to be a pretty interesting group of people.) I really don't think D Mafa rates as notable, and I have no evidence he was a Rhodes Scholar, so I'm comfortable with having removed him from the Notable Rhodes Scholars page.

Should you want any assistance from me, just ask, I'm happy to help.

But otherwise, I think I'll take a back seat and leave it in what appears to be your capable hands.

It's been very pleasant "talking" to you. Best wishes, Pdfpdf (talk) 12:12, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

My name is McMillan in DC. I verify the notability in his work in Zimbabwe Medical School at Parirenyatwa hospital. He taught there as an adjunct professor before leaving to England. He also co-ordinated the traditional healers research program for HIV research. He also did lots of work with cerebral palsy children from rural areas with the rehabilitation department. This was very important work in Zimbabwe at that time. A lot of people were claiming to have found a cure for AIDS and verifying the efficacy of these traditional medicines was of greater importance. I followed a year later even though we were in different colleges at start, I later joined Merton college. Politically, he was very involved in the inclusion of the Ndebele people in political process of Zimbabwe. Mostly those people from Bulawayo and Silobela where he regualary visted his grandmother.

Tsvangirai was never the only founder of MDC. Ndebele people have always been sidelined.A lot of great leaders are in Zimbabwe and were the original leader to know that Mugabe was a Mambara. Comeon you guys! You can never know everyone from Zimbabwe especially if you are white as a I am. 69.143.57.109 (talk) 03:16, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Note: This posting by "McMillan in DC" has been copied to Talk:Divine Mafa. Pdfpdf (talk) 10:54, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks McMillan. Are you speaking of Divine Mafa, or his father Felix Mafa who (unless I missed the link) led PIST, has been heavily involved in NCA and MDC and is now an MP? Do you know anything about the 1981 demonstration claimed in the article as led by Felix Mafa? Babakathy (talk) 16:59, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I remember about it as the first ever mass strike in Zimbabwe soon after indepodence. Felix Mafa was a leader of a Teachers organization called Zimta or Zitu. Teachers in teachers colleges and schools were under paid then. Around 1981, Dzingai Mtumbukwa was the then new minister of education. This a clearly documented story in the Herald papers achives as the first ever demontration against the govenment of Robert Mugabe. Mafa was the a ZIPRA Nkomo guy and was improsened when Nkomo flead from Mugabes torture. Do you remember that time? Mafa was fire as a college professor, and rehired after the other teachers union in a power struggle blammed him for influencing teachers to stop teaching. This labor movement continued over the years in negotionations with help from the new Tsvangirai. Ytalks to for a new party began with the old labor movement to what now exists. i have meory of this but I can see if I can get a copy of the achive copies from Zimbabwe. I have somone I know at the herals news offices who may sella a coppy. how can I create a wiki for Felix mafa. there is a lot about the selflessness of this guy. He is now a senator, ot MP for MDC and is a spokesperson and grassroots champion for Bulawayo region. Without him, MDC could have never been in the Bulawayo region. He is Bulawayo, but is is low key and I just dont understand why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.143.57.109 (talk) 19:39, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

This is great. I have started the article here. Please add to it, but it is important that the material you add is properly referenced - see how the Felix Mafa article is written. It is not essential to have a weblink for each reference, but there must be a reference to some previously published work. See for example Nyangani#References which has references to some online and some offline. The point is that this is an encyclopedia, and information must be verifiable by tracing the citation. It is not a place for new information that has not been previously printed, published etc.

This brings me to the problems with the article on Divine Mafa: So far the only information on Divine Mafa which we have been able to trace is about his time in Memphis (we: Pdfpdf, myself and others) - this is verifiable through the US press. His history earlier in US and UK and in Zim we have been unable to get information from. If you have, then put in the citation. For example, if you know of a newspaper article that refers to him and the traditional healers research program for HIV research, put in a reference to it, even if there is no weblink. The problem is that on the basis of his time in Memphis only, Divine Mafa is not particularly interesting, or notable in terms of wikipedia policy.The references for the rest of his history are needed to verify his claims to fame.

On another point, please keep this discussion on this talk page, not on my user page.Thanks

Finally, can I suggest you should register? It will make collaboration and discussion much easier.

Cheers, Babakathy (talk) 22:15, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Hello Users-Babakath,Mcmillian,Pdfpdf and others. My name is Divine. I amazed that a lot of people are taking interest about my father and myself. I welcome the interest but I hope you guys delete the excessive discussions, talks, and any assumptions. We leave a very productive and quiet life and would like to have no web presence whatsoever, unless its a cause for the poor and the needy. I spoke to my father and he feels the same way. I have no knowledge on how to do wiki pages and want to delete our profiles, discussions, talks etc..., on all the communications related to us. I never authorized the creation of the wiki pages, and my father feels the same way. I really appreaciate what everyone is trying to do. We want to stay private from the internet at this point in time. Is this ok with you? Thanks, Divine —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fumblingfoe (talk • contribs) 15:20, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

divine

Sorry, again about not knowing how to do this wiki. Thanks for all the advice shamwari,mungane wami. Help me, have the profiles of me and my father deleted. I am happy to have a profile at 80 years old and so is my father. My family has worked tirelessely for the common people in Zimbabwe and abroad. We dont ask for notability or inclussion in fancy Wiki. We just want to be simple and private. I know Zimbabwe is on high profile now, but lets all celebrate the proper exit of Mugabe from Zimbabwe. The quieter you are about this, the better it is. Can you nominate my profile for deletion....Thanks, If I knew, I would do it. Divine Fumblingfoe (talk) 13:35, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Nominations for deletion: I have already started the process for deletion of the article about you (by the way, these are encyclopedia articles, not profiles). If you go through the text above, that is my view.

On your father, he is a public figure who has been mentioned in the media many times in the last ten years especially, given interviews to journalists etc. As a member of parliament and a spokesperson for a political party he is famous (notable). Wikipedia is an encylclopedia. Most MPs get articles written about them - I mean people want to know about them, so it is quite natural. The basic point is that articles get written in wikipedia about people who are interesting, people whom the general public might want to know more about. An MP is an obvious example of such a person. You can also see on the article Felix Magalela Mafa Sibanda that all the information written there is already on the internet.

Babakathy (talk) 13:45, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Great, Baba Kakathy ( Ndebele) Ok, my father may be. But I am not notable whatsoever. I dont even deserve to have a wiki page. I wonder who has interest in knowing and writing about simple Divine. You have not given me intructions on how to delete my profile. I just dont have time to read all the links you gave me. I will leave my fathers profile intact, but you have to delete my profile from wiki. Siyabonga. Be kind to me. Thanks. Divine Fumblingfoe (talk) 14:17, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Baba Kathy

Respectifully, You seem resiliant and passionate to keep me on site. Any history of communication should be deleted. You may be passionate about wiki, but I am not. I have no interest whatsoever about being blogged on this site. Wiki rules are their rules. You are a PhD student and I respect that. I have spent all morning trying to get you guys to understand that I want us to be friends. Its better that way. We can share a whole lot of info. Otherwise if you can be constructive about this, then be constructive. I feel blackmailed by everyone because I am in the USA. Its not mature to do so. Firstly you blogged about my father being unkown, then you questioned my existence and achievements. Then found out that Divine Mafa is a person. Then you started to wonder if I was a notable Rhodes scholar, then you started to further wonder when I came to USA, and wht I was doing for the last thirty years. I find this unbecoming and aviolation of time that cvan be spent working on your school. Hoenestly, I dont mean to be insulting. Put yourself in my position. I need all the writeups that have been done about me removed. I beleive this is the short cut and a favor to me. In life we can always meet. Go in your talk and edit all the contact about me and forget about it and we can talk about sadza thereafter.

A lot of white folks from Zimbabwe take anger that I have nothing nice to say about Cecil John Rhodes and the Rhodes scholarship. I spoke the truth then. Rhodes was a racist and the scholarship was racist, and nothing presitigius should be said about it. A lot of great white majority of my friends that are noble agree on this valid conclusion. Please be fair and have humility about what right in life. Stand for the truth like William Wilberforce during the abolition period. You are a great person I amy never know that but you seem to be after reading everything about you. Fumblingfoe (talk) 15:59, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I have no interest whatsoever about being blogged on this site: This is an encyclopedia, not a blog. The discussions and questioning that you narate above represent a good faith attempt to improve the encyclopedia by finding out more about a subject (you) and whether or not it is suitable for an article (I believe not). Other users found solid information to verify some of the text, based on interviews etc you had given. If the discussions had never taken place then no-one would have taken the initiative to suggest your page should go - which is something you want. Some other material was already removed, eg a claim that there was a death sentence waiting for you in Zimbabwe under POSA... I put it to you that the edits on the page about you, and the discussions on this page are a good faith attempt to improve the encyclopedia.

But I am not notable whatsoever. I dont even deserve to have a wiki page. I wonder who has interest in knowing and writing about simple Divine. You have not given me intructions on how to delete my profile: I agree! I have said so many times. I have started the process for deleting the article about you (it is not a profile or in some way yours). If you want it to move faster, follow the link to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. I had got to the stage Wikipedia:Afd#Before_nominating_an_AfD. You will see a lot of the discussion on this page is about achieving that. The next stage is covered at Wikipedia:Afd#How_to_list_pages_for_deletion.

Any history of communication should be deleted: Sorry, can't be done. Not my choice, not my blog, not my rules. Wiki rules are their rules - and they are the foundation that runs the site. I am just another user on this site, like you. But I did earlier give you this link [2] and Wikipedia:User#How_do_I_delete_my_user_pages.3Fif you want to delete records of your user profile (Fumblingfoe).

I just dont have time to read all the links you gave me: To be blunt that is not my problem. And as you say I have other things to do with my time.

A lot of white folks from Zimbabwe take anger that I have nothing nice to say about Cecil John Rhodes and the Rhodes scholarship: I'm sure that is true having seen what I have seen in my life, but I've not actually said anything about that topic myself.

Babakathy (talk) 16:29, 21 September 2008 (UTC)