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Hello. I'm removing that link from our vowel/consonant articles, because it's not the appropriate place for it. That IPA guide is meant to be linked to from IPA transcriptions from other articles (example: German IPA on Berlin links to Help:IPA for German). Peter238 (talk) 16:59, 1 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]
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There is no evidence the script was used for anything other than Sanskrit. Please do not insert these languages without any evidence. There is no specimen of any literature written in Kamarupi Prakrit. The Kamarupi script is a phase of the script till the 13th century, and was not used for attachments from later periods. Chaipau (talk) 14:43, 27 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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Welcome, and thank you for contributing the page ছিলঠীয়া ভাষা to Wikipedia. While you have added the page to the English version of Wikipedia, the article is not in English. We invite you to translate it into English. It has been listed at Pages Needing Translation, but if it is not translated within two weeks, the article will be listed for deletion. Thank you. Stylez995 (talk) 15:04, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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code: This avoidance of Indic scripts only applies to articles that are predominantly India-related and is excluded from, among others, articles about Hinduism, Buddhism, Pakistan or any of India's neighbouring countries. It is a divergence from the usual practice of including non-Latin script in leads when it is arguably relevant (e.g. "Athens ... Greek: Αθήνα ..." at the article Athens).:uncode- Charyapada is the mother of bengali lang n part of Bangladesh national language and pride created by Bengalis from Vraendra or north bengal- learn well!!!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A0A:A541:60C9:0:F9A6:1A47:BF05:1BBF (talk) 09:30, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@2A0A:A541:60C9:0:F9A6:1A47:BF05:1BBF: The article says that this avoidance is only applied to articles that are predominantly Indian. But is charyapada predominantly Indian? (Ikr) and it says Indic scripts (which includes Eastern Nagari script also. It didn't mention about languages that are mostly spoken in India according to the available datas, it says scripts. And it's better to avoid any modern languages because charyapada was not written in those modern languages. And about educating Indians, mr/mrs pround nationalist, I identify myself as an individual, and I judge people individually for your information. You should better learn some respect. Charyapada is not a language, it was written in some languages at different periods please do some research before claiming yourself to be educated about the topic. It is not yet scientifically proven that the languages of Charyapada were mothers of Bengali (and people can make similar claims about other languages). Keep your "pride" in your pocket while talking to any other person. And this is Wikipedia, not your brain. "Created by Bengalis from Varendra or North Bengali" Oh! You need more things to learn. Ethnicity ≠ Languages. - Msasag (talk) Msasag (talk) 13:26, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@2A0A:A541:6059:0:5C28:776D:B4E2:F364: You've forgotten or never leant manners. You need to learn facts and stop believing in lies. And what's your point? Putting Bengali there doesn't prove that Charyapada is Bengali or it's an ancestor only of Bengali and not of other languages. So there is no need to add Bengali there just like there is no need to add any other modern languages. And I said "modern language" doesn't mean you can add any old languages. I thought you have some commonsense at least. Also, read about Aryan people, most Indo-Aryan speakers are not pure Aryans, they are mixed with native Dravidians (and Austroloids) and Mongoloids, more non Aryan dna is seen in darker skinned speakers and Sino-Tibetan and Tai-Kadai converts as well. (For your information, I'm half Sylheti and half Nokhailla, but my 1st language is Assamese for geographical reasons). And what did you mean by রা? Should I read it as "ra" (as in Bengali) or "vā" (as in Charyapada)? Msasag (talk) 13:12, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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I have removed the {{proposed deletion/dated}} tag from Bongal, which you proposed for deletion, because its deletion has previously been contested or viewed as controversial. Proposed deletion is not for controversial deletions. For this reason, proposed deletion is disallowed on articles that have previously been de-prodded, even by the page's creator, or which have previously been listed on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. If you still think the article should be deleted, please don't add the {{proposed deletion}} template back to the article, but feel free to list it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Thanks! —KuyaBriBriTalk18:37, 26 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Fylindfotberserk: That number of Bengalis "261 million" also includes Sylheti, Chittagonian and Bangladeshi Rajbongshi speakers. So if those people are included, then why not their languages? Are they mute or what??
And the percentage of Bengali speakers in Assam is 28% (of course this includes different languages also). And in Assam ethnicities are classified based on languages, so how can 29% percent be Bengali Muslims? And where are all those Bengali Hindus?? Also look at the population of Bangladesh which is 162 million in 2016, so how can the numbers of Bengalis in Bangladesh (shown as 166 million) be more than the entire population of the country? Are they counting other species?? Msasag (talk) 18:33, 15 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Let me explain one by one :
Firstly, the article is about Bengali ethnic group, so the norm here is only to include the language not dialects(or perceived dialects) of the ethnic group in question. Dialects are covered in the respective language article. See Swedish people, Han Chinese, Gujaratis, Punjabis, Tamils. For uniformity, all the similar articles need to be kept that way.
That number of Bengalis "261 million" also includes Sylheti, Chittagonian and Bangladeshi Rajbongshi speakers. -
It seems these languages are included as dialects here. The Census 2011 source for the Indian "Bengali" data includes "Rangpuri" as a mother tongue within the Bengali "language" making the total 97.2 million which is highlighted in the article. It is likely that the Sylhetis and Chittagonians were identified as standard "Bengali mother tongue" speakers included within the 96.1 million. This policy is maintained in other ethnic group articles like Punjabis (33,124,726 including Punjabi "mother tongue + other dialects"), Gujaratis (5,54,92,554 including Gujarati "mother tongue + other dialects), Tamils (6,90,26,881 including Tamil "mother tongue + other dialects).
Ethnologue alongwith the Indian Census in many cases include the language of minority groups within the the major language if debatable(less lexical similarity) e.g. Saraiki language within Punjabi; Saurashtra language, Potohari within Gujarati; Irula language, Kodava language within Tamil. It should be noted that there are respective ethnicities also for these languages which are acknowledged in Ethnologue as well as in Wikipedia similar to Sylhetis.
Also look at the population of Bangladesh which is 162 million in 2016, so how can the numbers of Bengalis in Bangladesh (shown as 166 million) be more than the entire population of the country? Are they counting other species?? - This one seems rather wrong. CIA factbook lists the population of Bangladesh as 159.4 million rather than 166 million as of July 2018. If 98% are Bengalis (which obviously includes Sylhetis and Chittagonians), the total Bengalis would be 156.2 million. If you add this value with the others in the infobox you get close to 260 million which is supported by the Ethnologue source. I've added the cia factbook no. in the article.
And in Assam ethnicities are classified based on languages, so how can 29% percent be Bengali Muslims? And where are all those Bengali Hindus?? - This one is most problematic and need to be checked. I didn't find any source for that. Deduced from 34.41% mentioned in Islam in Assam with the "85 % of the Muslims in Assam are Bengalis" quoted in here. I believe we can delete it if you are in agreement - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 17:33, 16 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@UserNumber: It is, but it's not a tadbhava (inherited term), it's a tatsama (new Sanskrit borrowing), from Sanskrit: sundara. According to CDIAL dictionary, the native Bengali cognate is: সুঁদর, it's similar to other nasal consonant to nasal vowel shifts in Bengali: আঁধার (skt: andhakāra), কাঁদ (skt: krand-), চাঁদ (skt: candra) etc. I am thinking to discuss about the romanization with you. The current romanisation used in the article is random. For each language, many romanisations are shown. And for Rohingya, the Rohingyalish alphabet is shown which is quite different from South Asian romanizations. Maybe we can use something that's closer to IAST transliteration. Msasag (talk) 17:43, 8 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@UserNumber: I meant based on that romanization. We use that in Wiktionary. So Bengali সুন্দর would be śundor. Retroflex characters have a dot bellow: ট ṭ, ড ḍ, ড় ṛ etc. ṅ for ঙ. Msasag (talk) 12:59, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The IAST is probably the most popular standard Romanisation base for Indo-Aryan languages. It's used for Hindi-Urdu and the other languages also. The problem is the character for the inherent vowel in the Eastern languages. Many use ô for Bengali অ and o for Bengali ও. But in many Bengali-Assamese languages like Assamese and Sylheti, the /o/ sound is rare. For Assamese it's /ɔ/ usually and when it's /o/, it's normally predictable, for example, before /i/, it's /o/, for Example: কল is /kɔl/ but কলি is /kolɪ/. When the /o/ is pronounced by itself (not because of any other vowel), then in Assamese alphabet the ’ is used, like হ’ল /ɦol/ and for its romanisation I use ö: höl. I don't use ó because many Bengali-Assamese languages are tonal so this can be confusing. In Sylheti also, the /o/ sound is usually present in diphthongs like "tumi ao!", "boi" etc. And ও is usually pronounced similar to "u" in those languages. Msasag (talk) 13:19, 9 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Assamese phonetics in Wikimedia
@Msasag: the work you have done recording the Assamese vowels in Wikimedia is wonderful (e.g. [1]. Would you like to complete it? I think we could then use those sounds in the Assamese language page. Also, I have reverted to the older Kanai-Boroxiboa picture because the later one is not legible. Chaipau (talk) 14:58, 30 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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I have reverted the image to the more legible one. Please maintain this version because the other is too noisy. Please upload a better representation instead --- I shall be on the lookout too. Chaipau (talk) 12:40, 30 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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Hello, I noticed that you recently created a new page, Early Assamese. First, thank you for your contribution; Wikipedia relies solely on the efforts of volunteers such as you. Unfortunately, the page you created covers a topic on which we already have a page – Assamese language. Because of the duplication, your article has been tagged for speedy deletion. Please note that this is not a comment on you personally and we hope you will continue helping to improve Wikipedia. If the topic of the article you created is one that interests you, then perhaps you would like to help out at Assamese language. If you have new information to add, you might want to discuss it at the article's talk page.
If you think the article you created should remain separate, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, and you wish to retrieve the deleted material for future reference or improvement, then please contact the deleting administrator, or if you have already done so, you can place a request here. Additionally if you would like to have someone review articles you create before they go live so they are not nominated for deletion shortly after you post them, allow me to suggest the article creation process and using our search feature to find related information we already have in the encyclopedia. Try not to be discouraged. Wikipedia looks forward to your future contributions. भास्कर् BhagawatiSpeak07:06, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Bhaskarbhagawati: I know what you hate to consider the existence of "Assamese" particularly the Eastern & Central dialects of Assamese language which is why you are trying to remove it for a decade. But you should respect wikipedia. It has told you many times that you're trying to confuse between Kamarupa Kingdom and Kamrup region and Kamarupi Prakrit and Kamrupi dialects (of Assamese language). We still hope that your misunderstanding goes away on this topic. Please do not try to add false information, for example your Kamrupi.jpg where you show Northern KRNB lects as a part of Kamrupi dialects. It seems you lack some basic knowledge on linguistics (covers a major part of you contributions) since you don't seem to know the concept of sound shift that you consider "manush" to be a Kamrupi word and that "manhu" is a loanword from Eastern Assamese. Msasag (talk) 07:26, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
O.K now you come to discussion, after being reported for not discussing. I think you need go to basics, Wikipedia articles are based on secondary sources, in which you are never interested, rather you remove them without consensus to tilt outcomes (say Goswami for current context), which is counted as bad faith editing. Claims you make most of times are not verifiable from reliable sources, rather in my experience with you, you may don't have access to relevant sources concerned, source of information for you consists of Wikipedia articles itself, that means subject is alien to you, which is quite obvious from your non-Assam background (Naokhali). Linguists of Assam listed dialect continuums, which you may not aware of. KRNB is non-consensus name used by a particular user based on a thesis by Toulmin, who has not contributed anything to languages of region except said thesis on North Bengali/Kamrupi dialect of Bengali, we generally don't count on single sources to build a article. I suggest you works of linguists U.N Goswami, K Medhi and historian K.L Barua, and other linguists and historians of Assam and India. Manush is used in Kamrupi scriptures, so used in the article. I can speak random things like you on linguistics, but OR is not included in Wikipedia. Don't add anything to Assam related articles without atleast two reliable sources.भास्कर् BhagawatiSpeak01:38, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Those linguists you mentioned also considered Kamrupi as dialects of Assamese. But you're writing it as "Kamrupi language" on Wikipedia. The "Kamrupi dialect" of Chaterjee includes Kamtapuri and Assamese. By the way considered them as dialects of Bengali, that's why he made groups like Rarhi dialects, Varendri dialects, Banga dialects etc. Many later linguists followed his classifications though many didn't count all as dialects of Bengali. You disagreed to associate Central and Eastern Assam with "Kamarupa" for some reasons. I am surprised that you haven't even learnt that Kamarupa inscriptions aren't in any modern language or Prakrit, but in Sanskrit, in the decade of your contribution on this topic on Wikipedia. For example you have been showing the Nidhanpur plates of Bhaskaravarmma that it's written in Kamarupi Prakrit!. And yeah "mānuṣa" is a Sanskrit word. And do you really that Kamarupa kingdom ended in 13th century? This is 2020! Languages change a lot in this period. You can't just collect words from here abd there. I guess you are not aware of the s > x/h shift in Kamrupi dialects. I ask you to learn these things, don't just look for the word Kamarupa/Kamarupi and its variations. Please read thoroughly if you want to contribute to this topic. And if you're thinking that having no idea on the topic is fine then you're wrong. And no I'm not of non-Assam background by the way. I'm from Assam. Noakhalia is just half of my cultural background (is it fine for you?). Your speculations aren't good. Msasag (talk) 05:27, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
And regarding Early Assamese, it's not same as Assamese language and Assamese literature. It's an ancestral form of Assamese, like Middle English, Old English, Old Hindi etc. You're trying to remove this article because you consider it as "Middle Kamrupi". These are your own classifications without sources. Early Assamese is a thing mentioned by many linguists like Chaterjee, Kakati, Toulmin, Masica, Cardona etc hence it deserves its own article. It is not the same as modern Assamese, it was spoken in 14th-16th century and has plenty of writings and other literature. Msasag (talk) 05:46, 24 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't want to comment on language vs dialect debate, but yes dialects are also written as language without any offence. I don't see any reason to persistently delete references from Assamese and related articles (it is done since last several years) by some users including you (which is a problem), without providing any reason, which is making article development difficult, also amounts to censorship. Consider providing references for your claims. Early Assamese is already covered in Assamese language, Assamese literature and other related articles, creating another article for same content is content forking. You are not supposed to remove speedy deletion notice yourself being its author. Lastly, if you disagree with text of article, mark it as "citation needed" if not sourced. भास्कर् BhagawatiSpeak12:04, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Not true. Early Assamese describes the linguistic features of Assamese in the 14th-16th century, just as Old English describes the English language of the past. The methodologies used to study a living language are different from the methodologies to study a language from the past. Chaipau (talk) 12:35, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The articles are created on based on works of U.N Goswami, K Medhi, K L Barua, G C Goswami and others, there are several academic books on the subject. Assamese is colonial era word, and there no evidences of works in Assamese before mid nineteenth century. If you are sincere to know about the subject, there are ample of evidence to present, but i have reservation on your intentions.[1][2][3][4][5]</ref>भास्कर् BhagawatiSpeak14:03, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
References
^Medhi, Kaliram (1936). Assamese Grammar and Origin of the Assamese Language. Sri Gouranga Press. p. 66. "The language of the pre-Vaisnava and Vaisnava was the dialect of Western Assam while the language of the modern literature is that of Eastern Assam. This latter has been accepted by the common consent as the literary language of the country. Political power thus determined the centre of literary activity and also of the form of literary language".
^Golockchandra Goswami (1982), Structure of Assamese, p. 11 "The Eastern and Central dialects may be regarded as uniform to a certain extent in their respective areas, while Western Asamiya is heterogeneous in character, with large regional variations in the east, west, north and south. There must have been in early times as well, diverse dialects and dialect groups as at present. But then, there seems to be only one dominant literary language prevailing over the whole area; and that was Western Asamiya, the sole medium of all ancient Asamiya literature including the Buranjis written in the Ahom courts. This was because the centre of all literary activities in early times was in western Assam; and the writers were patronized by the kings and local potentates of that region. In the later period, however, even though the centre of literary activities moved to eastern Assam in the Ahom period, the writers continued to accept and use the existing model of the literary style of that time".
^Goswami, , Upendranath (1970), A study on Kāmrūpī: a dialect of Assamese, Dept. of Historical Antiquarian Studies, Assam. p. 4.Assam from ancient times, was known as Kamarupa till the end of the Koch rule (17th century) and ancient Kamarupa comprised the whole of North Bengal including Cooch-Behar, and the Rangpur and Jalpaiguri districts of Bengal. Its permanent western boundary is said to have been the river Karatoya in North Bengal according to the Kalika Purana and Yoginitantra, both devoted to geographical accounts of ancient Kamarupa. So the Aryan language spoken first in Assam was the Kamrupi language spoken in Rangpur, Cooch-Behar, Goalpara, Kamrup district and some parts of Nowgong and Darrang districts. As also put by K.L. Barua "the Kamrupi dialect was originally a variety of eastern Maithili and it was no doubt the spoken Aryan language throughout the kingdon which then included the whole of the Assam Valley and the whole of Northern Bengal with the addition of the Purnea district of Bihar”. It is in this Kamrupi language that the early Assamese literature was mainly written. Up to the seventeenth century as the centre of art, literature and culture were confined within western Assam and the poets and the writers hailed from this part, the language of this part also acquired prestige. The earliest Assamese writer is Hema Saraswati, the author of a small poem, Prahrada Caritra, who composed his verses under his patron, King Durlabhnarayana of Kamatapur who is said to have ruled in the latter part of the 13th century. Rudra Kandali translated Drone Parva under the patronage of King Tamradhvaja of Rangpur. The most considerable poet of the pre-vaisnavite period is Madhava Kandali, who belonged to the present district of Nowgong and rendered the entire Ramayana into Assamese verse under the patronage of king Mahamanikya, a Kachari King of Jayantapura. The golden age in Assamese literature opened with the reign of Naranarayana, the Koch King. He gathered round him at his court at Cooch-Behar a galaxy of learned man. Sankaradeva real founder of Assamese literature and his favourite disciple Madhavadeva worked under his patronage. The other-best known poets and writers of this vaisnavite period namely Rama Sarasvati, Ananta Kandali, Sridhar Kandali, Sarvabhauma Bhattacharyya, Dvija Kalapachandra and Bhattadeva, the founder of the Assamese prose, all hailed from the present district of Kamarupa. During Naranaryana's reign "the Koch power reached its zenith. His kingdom included practically the whole of Kamarupa of the kings of Brahmapala's dynasty with the exception of the eastern portion known as Saumara which formed the Ahom kingdom. Towards the west the kingdom appears to have extended beyond the Karatoya, for according to Abul Fasal, the author of the Akbarnamah, the western boundary of the Koch kingdom was Tirhut. On the south-west the kingdom included the Rangpur district and part of Mymensingh to the east of the river Brahmaputra which then flowed through that district," The Kamrupi language lost its prestige due to reasons mentioned below and has now become a dialect which has been termed as Kamrupi dialect as spoken in the present district of Kamrup.
^Sengupta, Madhumita (2016). Becoming Assamese: Colonialism and New Subjectivities in Northeast India. Routledge. p. 100. Recent scholarship has also focussed on the fact that Kamrupi Prakrit or Kamrupi Apabhramsa differed vastly from the Sibsagariya group of dialects in terms of phonology, morphology and vocables and that the latter contains a large number of Perso-Arabic words presumably derived from the region's close association with Mughal India. The antiquity of Kamrupi has also been confirmed, with scholars recognising definite traces of this Prakrit in pre-Ahom inscriptions of Kamrup, despite conscious efforts on the part of the authors to produce in authentic Sansktit. It has been pointed out that even after the twelfth century the Kamrupi apabhramsa was continue to be used for composing popular songs and ballad, in mantra puthis or popular incantation of Dak.
^Kamrupa:Chatterjee (1926) uses this term to refer to the stage of linguistic history ancestral to both Asamiya and KRNB. In the present study, Kamrupa is used with same meaning, and is considered not synonymous with KRNB which is a further development (cf section 7.3.4. N.Das (2001) maintains that 'Kamrupa' and 'Kamrupi' is a more fitting title than 'Kamta' for KRNB varieties. However, the term 'Kamrupi' is most popularly used today to denote the western dialect of Asamiya spoken in the greater Kamrup region of Assam (cf. Goswami 1970). It seems well fitted to denote the both (1) the modern lect of the greater Kamrup region of Western Assam (east of the KRNB area), as well as (2) historical lect ancestral to both KRNB and Asamiya. "In this study I refer to the western dialect of Asamiya as Kamrupi, and the historical ancestor of proto-Kamata and proto-Asamiya as proto-Kamrupa." (Toulmin 2006, p. 14)
It wasn't called Kamrupi either. But it does not matter. It is called Assamese and that is the name of the language. It has been decided that Kamrupi will not be referred to as a language in Wikipedia. Chaipau (talk) 15:07, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Bhaskarbhagawati: I am not going to comment on these references for now. So you're showing the reasons why the article Kamrupi dialects should exist by telling that it was discussed? But you cannot accept the existence of the article Early Assamese even though the same reasons support its existence! And in case if you're thinking that I don't want the article Kamrupi dialects to exist, then no, I didn't ask about it. I was only saying that both articles can exist without being content forking. What is your point of saying "Assamese is colonial era word" ? (If you mean it was known Kamrupi before then this topic belongs to Assamese language and it has nothing to do with Kamrupi dialects which is just a modern classification of some dialects of Assamese. And the term "Early Assamese" is also based on "Assamese". If you have any sources that say that Early Assamese was known as Kamrupi then you can add that as a native name, for example on the introduction template below "Early Assamese" like "Englisch" is mentioned below "Middle English" as a native name). You said "and there no evidences of works in Assamese before mid nineteenth century" I just want to say: "what!??" Msasag (talk) 17:19, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have seen a pattern in your questions since last few years, instead of addressing it individually everytime (i have done it many times), i have provided reliable sources for each (including your source), to avoid long discussions. I expect that you don't delete them from Assamese language articles in future (which is the issue now).भास्कर् BhagawatiSpeak08:36, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Bhaskarbhagawati: I'm not sure what you want to prove. Also your sources say that Kamrupi (some mentioned as Western Assamese) is a dialect of Assamese and not a separate language. You said "and there no evidences of works in Assamese before mid nineteenth century". Languages can have many names or no name and names can change. It has nothing to do with linguistic classification. Many languages are just called "people's language" or just "people", like "Bodo/Boro" in Bodo, "Aong/əŋ" in Jarawa etc. And many languages have names based on not the whole region where it's spoken but a part of the region, like Bhojpuri, Sambalpuri, Noakhalia etc. And do we have any evidence that Assamese was known as "Kamrupi" before it was known as Assamese/its cognates? Ok let me comment on the references you provided: 1. Some sources disagree that only "Western Asamiya" was used in Pre-Vaishnava and Vaishnava Early Assamese literature. For example, ৰীণা ৰাণী বৰদলৈ/Reena Rani Bardalai (2005): "মন কৰিবলগীয়া কথা যে কন্দলীৰ সময়ত অসমীয়া ভাষা সাহিত্যৰ কেন্দ্ৰভূমি নামনি অসমতহে আছিল যদিও তেওঁৰ ৰামায়নত নামনি অসমৰ ভাষাতকৈ উজনী অসমত ব্যৱহৃত শব্দৰ প্ৰয়োগহে বেছি।" (English: It is worth noting that during the time of Madhav Kandali [i.e, Pre-Vaishnava period], though the centre of Assamese language literature was in Lower/Western Assam, in his Ramayana the usage of Upper/Eastern Assamese vocabulary is more than Lower/Western Assamese vocabulary.) Unlike others from Pre-Vaishnava period who were from Western Assam, Madhav Kandali was from Central Assam (its Assamese dialect was formerly counted as Eastern Assamese, now as Central Assamese). From Vaishnava period, Sankardeva and Madhav Deva were from Central and Eastern Assam respectively. 2. It included Buranji literature under Ancient Assamese literature. Now the term "Ancient Assamese literature" is over generalized I guess, is it from 8th century to 17th or 18th century? Other sources only consider Kamarupa period literature (8th-12th for Charyapada) as Ancient Assamese literature, maybe it can be extended upto 16th, the end of Early Assamese (14th-16th c). Then it said "This was because the centre of all literary activities in early times was in western Assam and the writers were patronized by the kings and local potentates of that region", here "early times" is over generalized. We know that Buranjis were first written in Ahom language and Ahom language was only used in and by Ahom kingdom which was then located in Eastern Assam. And look at the 2nd line, "..of that region", means of Western Assam which was not a part of Ahom kingdom then and Buranjis are associated with Ahom kingdom but it has extended meanings that can include the "buranjis" of the local Koch dynasty etc also. Then it says "In the later period, however, even though the centre of literary activities moved to eastern Assam in the Ahom period, the writers continued to accept and use the existing model of the literary style of that time", so it clears that it was not talking about Ahom kingdom buranjis. The language part in this line doesn't seem clear, it doesn't clearly say which dialect was used in the Ahom buranjis I guess. Ahom Kingdom was based on Eastern Assam, so it's more likely that they'd use the local Assamese dialect than that of a neighbouring country with which it fought many times. Let me mention a line from hastividyarnava from 18th century: "তাৰ পৰা থললৈ হাবিলৈ আহিল" here the dative siffix -loi is strictly Eastern Assamese, not Kamrupi (-[o]k lagi/logi/legi/geli) and Central (-ligi/legi/lagi). So these breaks your claim that there is no work in Eastern Assamese before mid 19th century. By the way the 1820 Assamese bible was written in the Sibsagar (Eastern Assam) dialect which is before mid 19th century. 3. It is talking about the Kamarupi Prakrit, not the Kamrupi dialects of Assamese. Also Kamarupi Prakrit is not a dialect of Maithili, now we know that they are very different, Kamarupi Prakrit was closer to Gauda Prakrit (ancestor of Bengali) than ancestors of Bihari languages like Maithili. Many sources confirm this. Also from the Kamarupa inscriptions we have evidence of Aryan settlements in Eastern Assam. Nowgong and Darrang district of that time includes parts of Central and Eastern Assam. 4. Kamarupi Prakrit or Kamarupi Apabhramsa is an ancestor of Sibsagariya Assamese (aka Eastern) along with other dialects of Assamese and Kamtapuri! Seems she misunderstood. 5. Well, what do you mean here? Here he said what I said. Kamarupi Prakrit is different from the Kamrupi dialect of Assamese, Kamarupi Prakrit was an ancestor of both Assamese (including its Kamrupi dialects spoken in greater Kamrup district region) and KRNB lects, etc. He considered Kamrupi dialects as dialects of Assamese and descendants of Proto Eastern Kamrupi (btw we can call it Early Assamese if we don't include Proto Kamta in Early Assamese) and the dialects spoken in North Bengal (West Bengal), Rangpur (Bangladesh), Dhubri (Assam), Kisanganj (Bihar), Jhapa-Morang (Nepal) and Tajpur (Nepal) as dialects of Kamta or descendants of Proto Western Kamarupi or Proto Kamta. And that the dialect of Bongaigaon (Assam) as of Proto Kamta origin but has heavy influence of Eastern Kamarupic group (aka Assamese) so it can be considered of mixed ancestry. By the way I used his study for the classification only till now. I notice some mistakes in his study though, for example it seems he couldn't find -nt- suffix (honorific/plural) in Early Assamese (aka proto Eastern Kamarupi) while it was mentioned in the same book, i.e Kakati (1941) which he was using. So the conclusion is, many of the references you provided are not reliable because they have mistakes and there are other sources that go against them. Msasag (talk) 14:29, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That is the problem, in Wikipedia we don't fast check sources (see WP:OR), rather WP:RSN, WP:DRN or other such noticeboards are entrusted with ascertaining reliability of sources. As said that we just report what reliable secondary sources are saying in articles. You are well informed that in last DRN involving the subject there is general consensus for above sources.भास्कर् BhagawatiSpeak16:48, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Please check your recent edit at T–V distinction which currently is showing errors including Name for the language code "rkt" could not be retrieved. I'm hoping you know how to fix that. Johnuniq (talk) 09:37, 1 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Chaipau, the source says Rangpuri uses "Bengali script" as its writing system, not Bengali-Assamese, we don't use Wikipedia as a reference. There is a discussion on the talk page, you can join there. Za-ari-masen (talk) 10:49, 29 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Your recent editing history at Rangpuri language shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.
Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Za-ari-masen (talk) 10:31, 1 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
There seems to be some problems with the demography section of Bongaigaon district. In the bar showing percentage of religions it is written " Religious groups of Darrang District 2011" Correct that please and at several places instead of Bongaigaon district 'Bongaigaon state' is mentioned. Truthfulsoldier (talk) 05:00, 9 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Msasag: The Assamese pronunciations are not showing in 'Category:Audio files by language' list. So I tried to move 'Assamese pronunciation' to 'Audio files in Assamese'. Can you please fix it ?
@Fylindfotberserk: Rajbongshi people also include Koch people actually. In Assam they are called Koch-Rajbongshi. Though they can be considered as separate in some places. Rajbongshis are the Koch people who adopted Kamarupic lects and more mixed with Indo-Aryans, including those who were the original speakers of Kamarupi Prakrit. Rajbongshi literally means people who belong to the royal dynasty, plus many Koch-Rajbongshis adopted this surname in recent times leaving their earlier surnames I read. Msasag (talk) 16:33, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you remember, PerfectingNEI (Sairg's sock) created that FORK article Koch people, to keep it free from Indo-Aryan speaking Rajbongshis, so I though the language should stay in that article. - Fylindfotberserk (talk) 16:37, 30 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@Fylindfotberserk: Koch-Rajbongshi or Rajbongshi includes both. Actually there are people with Koch surname / Koch community who speak Indo-Aryan languages and also other Bodo-Garo languages. Msasag (talk) 13:03, 1 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Please, use the talk page
You keep making claims in the edit summaries while you are engaging in a revert war at Bengali–Assamese script. While your point may be completely valid, you can't ever hope to make that point clear in an edit summary. You absolutely need to go the talk page an discuss your bold edits there. There are other editors besides you who may have some valid point too. You are leaving no ground for them in you style of "discussion". Finally, if you think discussion are not needed, then I implore you to read WP:CON and WP:BRD. Aditya(talk • contribs)02:20, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Your recent editing history at Bengali–Assamese script shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.
Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Za-ari-masen (talk) 11:26, 8 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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Hello Msasag. I hope that you are in good health. The map shown in the article Bengali dialects seems to be a POV. It includes the Rangpuri language as a dialect of the Bengali language. But as we know, the KRNB lects are an offshoot of Kamrupi Prakrit. Please check the map and suggest me if any necessary step has to be taken. I would also request you to correct the map if you think it is wrong. Thank you! Mahakaal2003 (talk) 04:42, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Mahakaal2003: Yes it should be removed, along with Sylhet and Chittagonian from the map. The map even includes Goalpara of Assam which is neither politically nor linguistically classified as a dialect of Bengali. The Goalpariya dialects are divided into two, Eastern and Western. In colonial works the Western one was included under Bengali and Eastern one under Assamese. In modern works, for example Toulmin, the Western one is included as Kamtapuri which is considered as an independent language (also has official status in West Bengal) while the Eastern dialect is considered as of mixed or intermediate origin of both Assamese (East Kamarupa) and Kamatapuri (West Kamarupa). Msasag (talk) 07:39, 6 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Msasag: Yes! Earlier, I used to believe that Sylheti, Chittagonian and Rangpuri are the dialects of Bengali. But after studying the recent researches (especially that of Toulmin), it became clear to me that they are separate languages. I tried to include this point in the legend of the map, but a user named Alivardi removed it. I do not want to be involved in a possible edit war. What should we do next? Should we create a new map or start a discussion in the talk page? Mahakaal2003 (talk) 10:12, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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Not to mention, where did you even find the Učida source? I can't find any files online. Show it to me please, the whole chapter. Fdom5997 (talk) 07:18, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sure. Send me the Moniruzzaman source at languageseast@gmail.com. I couldn't find it. I'll send you the Učida source via email. Msasag (talk) 07:24, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Msasag and by the way, I just reread the Masica source in which he states "as described by Učida". So for that matter, he is citing a dated source as well. Fdom5997 (talk) 07:25, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So I just read the Moniruzzaman source that you provided. The phonology section there is a disaster. It is treating Chittagonian sounds as Standard Bengali sounds. I as a learner of Chittagonian and speaker of a sister language (Sylheti) which also lacks aspirated consonants, haven't noticed them in Chittagonian either. So I'd prefer the Učida source over Moniruzzaman source in terms of the phonology. The latter is extremely inaccurate. I can provide you audio samples of Chittagonian if you need. Msasag (talk) 07:48, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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