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Wikipedia talk:Pages needing attention/Archive 2
Someone should write a paragraph guideline on removal of itemsWould it not be a good idea to have a paragraph explaining the procedure for removing pages from this list? Suggested paragraphs to be inserted at the beginning of the article might be the following.
Or something like that. I will let this comment sit here for a few weeks, and if there is no opposition, then I will insert a couple of paragraphs like the above. Rednblu 21:15, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)
I don't find any feasible suggestions anywhere on what to do after one as fixed an article. The only valuable suggestion is to make sure to mention it in the page histories of both the (hopefully) no longer contentious article and the "Pages needing attention" page. Okay? <KF> 16:29, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC) NPOV disputesThe header at the top of the page says that NPOV disputes should not be listed here. That doesn't make sense to me. Where should NPOV disputes be listed? The Wikipedia:NPOV dispute page does not seem to be the correct one; there is nothing there that is analogous to this page. Conversely, pages needing attention does in fact identify many pages that need attention because of POV errors.
CategoriesWouldn't this meta page work better if things were in catagories rather than in alphabetical order? That way "experts" could more efficiently find articles they can assist with. Kingturtle 05:04, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)
How to mirror the popularity at VfDIn this mailing list post Eclecticology asks This line of inquiry begs the question, "How do we make 'Articles needing attention' more functional?" Perhaps we need to give it whatever it is that makes VfD so popular. Articles placed at VfD are regularly improved. Over half of the pages listed there are not deleted because they are viewed by and discussed by a large number of people and a lot of work goes into them over the five days in which a page is listed. Perhaps part of the appeal is the time limit. You know you have to improve an article within five days or it will be gone. Another contributory factor may be that you know if you work on a VfD'd article, a lot of people are going to see the results of your labours. The work you put into it will be discussed at VfD and hopefully you will be rewarded by having the page removed from VfD. The excitement of the time limit and rewarding aspects of working on a VfD'd article need to be somehow applied to the pages needing attention if this page is to made a success. So, any ideas on how to do that? How do we make this page more appealing and attract the attention of the VfD'ers? Other than threatening to delete everything listed here in five days time? Angela 00:59, Nov 7, 2003 (UTC)
Some steps:
JamesDay 08:47, 8 Nov 2003 (UTC) As someone who has only recently discovered the joys of Pages needing attention, and who enjoyed giving a page what attention I could give it, I have to say that I think that the problem is really with the way VfD is used. That page, in my view, should be for pages that the lister deems irredeemable. The fact that half the listed pages are not deleted but improved indicates to me that they should have been put on pages needing attention to begin with. Within Pages needing attention, there may be a need for two metacategories, Wikipedia:Pages needing expert review and Wikipedia:Pages needing editorial review. Equally, newcomers like myself should be encouraged to put articles on Wikipedia:Peer review and old lags should equally be encouraged to go there more often and do the peer reviews requested. Bmills 17:17, 18 Nov 2003 (UTC) I wrote Vernon God Little, which is listed here and has a stub note on it. Now, I do not believe it is a stub but a short article on a novel that is worth noting. I've seen lots of similar single-novel pages (e.g.The Day of the Locust) I'd like to suggest that Vernon God Little be removed from this page and that the stub note be removed. In fact, if nobody objects, I may come back in a week or so and do it myself. Is this OK? Bmills 10:46, 26 Nov 2003 (UTC)
BoilerplatesWhy not create some more boilerplates, if they don't already exist, for "Peer-review requested (this article needs close checking to confirm details about ..."), "Cleanup needed (typo, grammar, and idiocy check)", "translation cleanup needed", and so forth. Peer-review, knowledge-needed, and dispute (already exiss) boilerplates could go on the article page (so that someone looking for info will know that there's a problem or needs info, and exactly what the problem is), while cleanup boilerplates could go on the Talk page. Having standard boilerplates would mean that people looking for something to do simply go to the page for that boilerplate and click on the "What links here" link to see what needs work. If it's something that covers the basics, then a peer isn't likely to look at it that closely. I mean, *I'm* not going to go look at the Computers 101 page, unless I see it linked somewhere. And if it needs some kind of technical work, hen there should be a boilerplate anyway, to warn people who might not otherwise know better. I think the peer-attention boilerplates should also have a link to the Talk page, and the problems listed a the top of that page, so that non-peers will know what to be careful of, without having to wonder how to find out or exactly where to look. Having a boilerplate will give notice to whatever peer is reading it that s/he should re-read it more carefully. Otherwise, you're trusting that they'll happen to read the problematical section, and that they'll notice that there's a problem.
Time for this page to dieI'll claim a right to speak on this issue, as I was the original creator of the page, way back in the early days. This page was created when we really didn't have any method of bringing attention to a "less than ideal" page, except through making comments on RC. Also back in those days a single page was adequate as we only had a couple of thousand genuine articles anyway. Unless someone can demonstrate a clear function that PNA performs which isn't handled elsewhere, I would question why this page still exists. Regards Manning 18:32, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Arrangement suggestionMaybe things would go more smoothly if articles on this page were placed in chronological order, like in Cleanup and Votes for deletion, so people could more easily see the age of a request. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk)]] 19:35, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)
Articles in need of formattingUser:Guanabot has made some automated fixes recently that brought some formatting issues to my attention, most of which were due to some old automated-conversion imports back in February 2002. The articles in question are the "Communications in...", "Politics of...", "Geography of..." sort. I don't know how many of these there are, but the old versions all suffer from some poor formatting. If anyone could pitch in to help reformat these, that'd be splendid. For examples of how I think they should be formatted: [1], [2], [3], [4]. Most of these could use some additional wikification, i.e. links on km and m, headings stating what the article is about, more correct degree/min/sec on the geographical coordinates, etc. I've been following in the trail of Guanabot, to make these articles easier to find. -- Wapcaplet 19:12, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC) P.S. - See also Transportation by country. -- Wapcaplet 19:28, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I've continued to format and wikify these, finding more small things in need of improvement along the way. Currently I'm concentrating on the "Geography by..." articles. In those, "sq km" should become "km²" with a wikilink to square kilometre. "m" and "nm" should become wikilinks. There are probably a dozen other recurring phrases that could become wikilinks, but I haven't bothered with them. I've added Category:Geography by country to those I find without it. My changes haven't been completely consistent from article to article, but if you want to see what I'm doing, look at my contribs. Help on this would be greatly appreciated :-) -- Wapcaplet 02:07, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC) BTW, for articles that need more basic wikification, there's a specific subpage of Cleanup (rather than PNA): Category:Articles that need to be wikified. --Joy [shallot] OrganizationI'm not sure how this page might be better ordered. Placing each section on a subpage so they can be monitored individually may help to divide the perceived load some. I've tried inserting hardrules to keep months separate, but that doesn't seem any better than the flat lists. Are there reasonable different ways the page could be organized? Does the following layout help any? --[[User:Eequor|η [ removed for maintenance purposes ] Untagged articlesMost pages on Pages needing attention are missing an {{attention}} tag. In some cases this may be essentially vandalism, tags being carelessly removed; but some may have been fixed without removing the listing here. The listings should be reviewed anyway, both to check whether there are unneeded tags or whether tags should be replaced. --[[User:Eequor|η ExperimentFor an experimental reorganization similar to Wikipedia:Requested articles, please see Wikipedia:Pages_needing_attention/Void. Should this replace the current bulky page? --[[User:Eequor|η
Help on Adding a CategoryHi, there. I meant to add a page to the category "Psychology" under the "Social sciences and humanities" section, but the heading is missing from the Wikipedia:Pages_needing_attention/Social_Sciences_and_Philosophy page. I couldn't find any tutorial on how to create it. If this is analogous to VfD, I suppose the correct procedure would be:
Can someone please confirm if this is right? Thank you very much. VladMV ٭ talk 17:28, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC) Does anyone speak and writte in German?, please help me translate this this! --Albanau 10:53, 14 May 2005 (UTC) Moved commentMoved from Wikipedia talk:Pages needing attention/Social Sciences and Philosophy
What's the difference between this and cleanup?Can anyone tell me? Seems to me it would be better if the two pages were merged. Johnleemk | Talk 11:10, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
So what's the difference between this and Category:Pages needing attention?Why are people manually adding links to individual pages from here, when adding the {{attention}} template to a page will get it automatically listed in Category:Pages needing attention? I just removed several pages that had been listed here for well over a year because the people who cleaned them up didn't realize they were linked from this page. Tim Pierce 06:37, 5 December 2005 (UTC) Reform proposalI agree with the previous comments that the differences between the various attention-requesting pages are very slight. Even though some people have clear ideas about what goes where, in practice there are some pages listed on Pages_needing_attention that clearly belong somewhere else, and probably vice versa. Wikipedia:Cleanup is currently undergoing a substantial revolution (see Wikipedia talk:Cleanup for details during the transition process). Instead of there being a central page where listings are added and then cross-referenced on talk pages and whatnot, the idea is to just use template tags that put articles (or more specifically, their talk pages) into special categories. Then, we can just point people who want to do work of a specific type to the corresponding category. Sorting by age can be automated with the use of a bot. This almost eliminates the need for maintenance on the central page, which is time better spent actually fixing articles. It also means that there is only one place where all the comments of interest to article-fixers are located - the article's talk page - instead of the talk page plus several special-purpose repositories floating in Wikipedia space. One of the really nice features of Pages_needing_attention is that things are split up by topic area. This makes it easy for people with an interest in a particular topic to find articles they would enjoy working on. But it would be nice to divide things by topic for the purposes of remedial cleanup and expansion, too. I would propose the following:
-- Beland 01:03, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC) Some changes definitely neededOK, folks, this article is a great idea in principle, but it's not user-friendly. The page I came from ("2000") says in the template thingy: "Please see its listing on Pages needing attention" First point is that NO pages have listings on this article, so the template is overdue for rewording accordingly. So is the phrase in the article itself that says the same thing. Second point is that nobody is likely to try all the possible categories unless the subject is obvious. I've looked in the area that includes Astronomy etc, since dates are dependent on astronomy. Some of the listings there seemed to lead to further subpages. Too much like hard work on an unreliable 56K dial-up. Are there really so many "Pages needing attention" that they can't be listed alphanumerically with a brief dated explanation by the person who decided that the page needed attention? Explanations longer than about 10 words should have links to the article's Talk page where the promoter can explain in as many words as he or she likes. A much more direct way for people seeing the Attention template to see what it refers to and to check how much of the required attention has since been given. (I can't even see, despite twice looking throught the page history for "2000", how many months ago the template was applied.) I can see the value in the division into topic areas for experts to tackle their specialties. But that doesn't help the person who has come from the page, may or may not be a specialist, and doesn't know which category it has been listed in. I've read some of the earlier notes on this page. Very good ideas among them. But no help to me in this case nor to others in the same situation. I guess I can go back to concentrate on my main WP "responsibility", where all 213 articles (and other pages) are in need of attention and there is therefore no need to stick inaccurate templates on any of them saying so. Robin Patterson 02:15, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC) Integration with Wikipedia:WikiProjectsI think this page would benefit by links providing easy ways to submit articles to the appropriate WikiProject. I'm going to add some of these, I'd be curious about any responses anyone has... JesseW 2 July 2005 08:06 (UTC)
Articles which lack an {{attention}} tagMany of the articles that were on this list have either been fixed, or need a different tag than the one suggested. It would be easier to go through the currently-listed articles and check them for proper tagging. -- Beland 23:02, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
Proposals so farBetween this talk page and User talk:Jekoko/Cleanup links, so far we have several proposals.
Attention template vs. Expert templateGreetings. I understood PNA to mean pages that were seriously in need of cleanup, meaning they are unreadable in their current form. Now I see that some people are using PNA to mark pages needing attention from an expert. This is in direct contradition to the current template (Template:Attention), which reads:
There is a separate pages needing expert attention template (Template:Expert). Please use the appropriate template. --Reinyday, 9 August 2005
Silly sorting systemAll these pages are sorted by the page type, not the problem type. For example, I listed Speakers' Corner because I needed information on a protest there about the war in Iraq. More importantly, the confusion was due to misinterpretation of the wording, written most likely by an Englishman. It would make much more sense to sort by problem type, in this case lack of knowledge of assumedly British English writing. Also, agree that categories are too numerous and too vague or too specific; many categories should be merged and then broadened as there can't be that many categories needed. The best category I could use was National Parks, which doesn't help at all. Also, specific expert tags could be used to track additions more easily (e.g. { {expert-mathematics} } instead of just { {expert} }). All these changes would make this page much easier to use. Telso 09:53, 24 August 2005 (UTC) cleanup cleanupIs it just me who finds this ironic, or will it be universal? the cleanup page needs cleaning up. very good that specific subjects have been listed at the bottom, but will someone please alphabetise them? and perhaps get their priorities in line? some people in society my hold comic books in higher esteem than chemistry, but i for one do not. especially in an encyclopaedia. Comments? mastodon 21:13, 4 November 2005 (UTC) |
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