This is an archive of past discussions with User:Uyvsdi. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Have you even bothered to read the nonsense you insist upon maintaining in the Wisconsin Walleye War article? This is the gibberish you have twice reinserted:
"By late April 1988 of the spring spearfishing season, residents and visitors of Park Falls, Wisconsin rallied at Butternut Lake, where a band of fishers were led by Tom Maulson, a former judge and council member of the Lac du Flambeau judge and council member."
Does your knee jerk every time you see an IP edit?
You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on Article. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement.
No explanation was given for the deletion either time.
I'm not the one making personal attacks.
Chill out. I'm hardly in an edit war with you. You still have to explain your edits in the edit summary. -Uyvsdi (talk) 23:48, 11 January 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
(1.) You still have to explain your stupid edits. No explanation was given for the insertion either time.
(2.) If the shoe fits, wear it.
(3.) You made two knee-jerk edits with no explanation. One more qualifies as edit warring.
(4.) Learn how to count. I only made one edit to this article.
Someone keeps removing the majority of content about her Native American claims. No matter what view someone has, I suggest there should at least be a heading for controversy and some information on that since it's a major part of her biography now. I will add this today but I'm afraid it will be gone by tomorrow. Could you help me on this? I think it's going to take some kind of protection on the article to keep people from removing any reference to it. Thanks. Odestiny (talk) 16:59, 12 January 2013 (UTC)
Hi Odestiny, there's an entire paragraph about it right now, so that seems more than adequate. I'll put it on my watchlist and see if anyone deletes it all again. -Uyvsdi (talk) 19:28, 12 January 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Hey there. I made a navbox for Native American dance articles. Would you take a look at Template:Native American Dances? Montanabw brought up on the talk page about the organization of the dances in the navbox and said you might be able to give some help or insight? Thanks! Deflagro (talk) 22:35, 11 February 2013 (UTC)
I nominated it for speedy deletion. Those aren't words; they are just random characters. I'm sad the immersion program never took on the project of creating Wikipedia articles, because honestly, they are the only people in the world likely to use that Wikipedia in a practical way. I'm doing a conference up there in April and will try to find out who to talk to about encouraging the use of Wikipedia for the language. I've forced my students to write English Wikipedia articles in the past ;) I think it beats writing a research paper no one will ever read. –Uyvsdi (talk) 21:06, 13 February 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
It looks like the exact opposite of what was proposed happened. Category:Native American music has the message "This category is located at Category:American Indian music." I don't think anyone wanted that to happen. -Uyvsdi (talk) 01:30, 29 March 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Coming briefly back off wikibreak to ask you to keep a friendly eye on new editor User:Ssenier. This editor is hopefully going to be responsible for a bunch of new Native author articles, would be great if the good editors round here backed them up in this. Vizjim (talk) 16:10, 29 March 2013 (UTC)
That's wonderful news! I'm kind of swamped right now, but definitely will help out whenever I can. Cheers, Uyvsdi (talk) 21:31, 29 March 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Thank you so much, Uyvsdi, for getting in touch at Vizjim's prompting. I've got my class this spring starting to work on Wikipedia articles about New England-based Native American authors, and am incredibly grateful to have some experienced editors looking out for us. I believe I have successfully created William S. Yellow Robe, Jr., and would also be thrilled to have you add or change anything you see fit!!Ssenier (talk) 19:34, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
Will check it out. I had two classes of students write profiles of Indigenous Americans artists, but now we have all the most popular artists covered. Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 19:41, 30 March 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
I have NO idea why the Roaring Creek Rancheria is a carbon copy of the Montgomery Creek Rancheria article. Will check it out tomorrow. Thanks for the head's up! -Uyvsdi (talk) 23:51, 19 April 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
I saw that. I've heard that Mooney discovered stories about the Moon-Eyed People among the Kiowa too, but I need to find a more reliable source than my mom. -Uyvsdi (talk) 22:48, 29 April 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
After reverting this [2] at Shell gorget. I checked the link for the cite of the Dan Townsend info and got a 404 page. Thought you might have a reference close to hand to add for the info, although I'm sure the physical paper issue of mag for the cite is sufficient, I just wanted something to point the new acct to if they return. Hope you are well! Heiro20:55, 16 May 2013 (UTC)
Found the article on the Wayback Machine. My understanding, and this is hearsay, is that the group that Dan Townsend belonged to, Apalachicola Tribal Town, lost their state recognition, and he hasn't enrolled in another state-recognized tribe, so probably your wording that his is simply a contemporary gorget carving is probably best. Otherwise he could be described as being of self-identified Muscogee-Cherokee descent. BTW I'll try to find you off Wiki to share my new venture. -Uyvsdi (talk) 02:53, 17 May 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
This should be an interesting user to work with. There are numerous Muscogee tribes, and under the 1990 Indian Arts and Crafts Act, state-recognized tribes are completely acceptable. But I'm not against having someone else playing the bad guy and telling people that Cher isn't Indian. -Uyvsdi (talk) 02:55, 17 May 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
May 2013
Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to Lumbee may have broken the syntax by modifying 2 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.
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| caption = Official Logo of the Lumbee Tribe of North Carolina]]
and responsibility for their education, so far as is possible.<ref>Jefferson, NC: McFarland, 1994), pages 179-186</ref> The federal government had a relationship and responsibility only to those
to 50 or 60, were still living with the Catawba.”<ref>''Handbook of American Indians'', 1906)</ref> The McPherson Report also noted that the Catawba and smaller tribes suffered high fatalities
the Squamish CfD yielded a completely unsatisfactory result; see User_talk:Skookum1#Category:Squamish_people and I don't by Fayenatic's logic, though I do get along with him ;-). The "FOO people" nomenclature I remember the IPNA and also those working on the PacNW categories long ago was dispensed with as unworkable and often linguistically redundant; for lack of being able to find those old discussions, now archived and unindexed, all the discussions that led to the category structure and title conventions have been ditched by people imposing "outside" judgements, and while I did say I could live with Category:Squamish people that didn't mean I approve of it; it's anomalous now within BC First Nations categories; all of which were, if not for the success of the RMs that prevent them, were in danger of being made into "[anglicism]+people"......and the status of those articles before those reversions was used in the one RM that mandated t he Skwxwu7mesh->Squamish people change invoked those wrongly-renamed articles as evidence of "consistency". I still haven't had time, or stomach, to start that guideline sandbox, but at this point I feel this one needs to be appealed. There are always exceptions to "rules" WP:There are no rules seems to be simultaneously the most ignored, and simultaneously the most abused, of the Five Pillars. The end result is a chauvinistic outcome, in my opinion, with others dictating what is "most common" without any knowledge of the context, and without any regard at all for the fact that the primary usage of "Squamish people" is "people from the town of Squamish".Skookum1 (talk) 09:10, 16 July 2013 (UTC)
As far as names go, WP:WikiProject Ethnic groups long ago came to the conclusion that several methods of naming ethnic groups is acceptable. Here's an old guidelines (at the bottom) for naming ethnicities that has since been deleted, but might be useful to post on the IPNA discussion. -Uyvsdi (talk) 16:09, 16 July 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
As I asked CJLippert, should I start the draft guidelines and associated discussions as a sandbox off IPNA or off my own page?Skookum1 (talk) 03:30, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
I kind see the need for a multi-page sandbox, as one part will be a comprehensive table (gag!) of all peoples/bands/governments/communities/reserves etc...which I suppose if done properly could be a list/table article in regular article space once completed.Skookum1 (talk) 03:34, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
My experience IRL is that there are a wide variety of names that any Native group calls themselves. That's why I support the WikiProject Ethnic groups' perspective that we have to be flexible. -Uyvsdi (talk) 06:24, 17 July 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
well, it's "interesting" how many people are not flexible about this; and they outnumber us, from what I'm finding. "us" being people who work on these articles and know the subject matter, I'm not FN myself as you know.Skookum1 (talk) 06:36, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
They decided that guidelines for that page only pertained to individual people. Maybe we should move it to INPA and expand it? I was involved just because I was sick of linguists making unilateral, undiscussed moves to articles they never contributed to but that other people were actively working on. -Uyvsdi (talk) 06:41, 17 July 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
"Gee, I wonder who...." I see two sandboxes to start, one is the table of articles/categories etc, the other is a style guideline, maybe WP:Naming conventions (North American indigenous peoples) or even just WP:Naming conventions (indigenous peoples but it would also have to do with more than naming conventions, e.g. how to use "First Nation(s)" and how to qualify it properly so its usage isn't jumbled. Some of the grating comments in the RMs and CfDs included how what these peoples wanted to call themselves was irrelevant to MOSTCOMMON and COMMONNAME and that "we don't do official names" etc. Once the guidelines are established re-fighting the Skwxwu7mesh/Squamish people one, and others, will be easier as it will not just be me claiming a consensus......which we never put together years ago, and should have, obviously. We need Phaedriel, or someone like her, who has wiki-clout and knows how to reason with the unreasonable and uneducated.Skookum1 (talk) 06:59, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
Plan is for the list/table sandbox to have in it a column as to who made the moves, who started the article/category etc.....Dakelh article and category were both started by the pre-eminent scholar in that field; Kwami didn't give a damn, even though he's entirely linguistics-motivated. He's done too many speedies to not comment on him.....Skookum1 (talk) 07:03, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
Yeah you're right about the table/list, I got thinking that last night after I started it. I'll keep it to a list of FOO/FOO people problems and mostly work on the guidelines. In those I'll try and summarize what the emergent consensus/paradigm was originally about names etc....and also issues about indigenous sensitivity, which was held in disregard in the RMs but shouldn't be and re legal meanings/usages. BTW for a while now Native American name controversy's title has been very USian given that its content includes Canada. Not sure how else to title it. I'll be referring to it of course in the naming discussions. Just woke up, back later.Skookum1 (talk) 04:42, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
More undiscussed speedy moves by the K-why rogue artist
I've never seen this before. What's that do? Doesn't display, it has some kind of code function I gather....pardon me for being suspicious, I'm just wary of anything I see in this area now. And on the Squamish/Skwxwu7mesh thing, on the Squamish, BC town article today (actually a District Municipality not a Town), one good reason why the latter term should be visible and used was the edit comment there today by somebody thinking it was vandalism if not "weird spelling"; I amended the text clearer. It was a symptom of "cultural apartheid", resulting from the lack of knowledge resulting from segregation of identities and cultures, but that's a longer digression. In the case of the Wuikinuxv, have a look at the PDF I linked, page 23, giant Chinook salmon....but lots of great pics in that PDF.....these are a living people with a living identity, treating them as anthropological objects to be classified and renamed externally, as if books on a shalf, is "not on". Really a group BLP issue ultimately. "Biography of Living Culture" maybe. These are not dead cultures and while BLP legalities may not apply, the principles should.Skookum1 (talk) 17:35, 25 July 2013 (UTC)
That's super common template on redirects; nothing to worry about. I gave homeboy a warning and he responded, so further discussion should be on Talk:Oowekeeno people, not here. Unilateral, undiscussed moved like that are against Wikipedia policy, so when this happens again (and we all know it will) give him a warning. -Uyvsdi (talk) 18:07, 25 July 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
see here re guidelines...tangent from point in Kalispel merge
been busy in real life all day, headed for bed.....rambled a bit here but on key points..wondering about moving all my rambles/points there into that sandbox's talkpage so it can be for guideline-proposed wording...not that we/I have any yet....Skookum1 (talk) 17:03, 29 July 2013 (UTC)
What source are you talking about? The www.nuxalknation.org website? That's completely acceptable; it's an institutional website, not a personal website. I always use tribal websites in tribal articles, since they are usually the only ones to list current government officials. -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:42, 11 August 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Well, in some of those %#$% RMs, some @#%^ said that "we don't do official sources" and the defender of the changed titles said that what these people called themselves was not relevant and implicitly POV/COI......'xcuse me? Anyways the issues here are also to do with the article titles.....Nuxalk Nation should maybe be moved to Nuxalk Nation Band Administration or become a dab page.....and what about that art site that User:Ohnoitsjamie objects to as spam? I'm not so sure it is, given the small scale the Nuxalk cultural presence in sources, and in the art community it seems legitimate and necessary to include such links.Skookum1 (talk) 03:12, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
I would vote for Nuxalk Nation staying where it is, for simplicity's sake and because "Nation" implies government (I don't buy into calling group of Indigenous peoples a "Nation"). The art site isn't spam; it's just not very good. It doesn't represent the art or the culture well. Maybe down the road when it improves, it should be re-added. -Uyvsdi (talk) 03:50, 12 August 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
it's a common affectation but always POV in nature when used i.e. nation...our convention here is in caps form it's a government....I guess the thing to do is redirect the band administration link to it, put the category on that redirect, and cite their website about the distinction in terms and mention it in both articles....maybe a hatnote is needed re the Nuxalk people article...this is a case like the Skwxwu7mesh/Squamish where there's only one band government for many different subgroups and/or communities, though the older villages are now pretty well abandoned and they're all in Bella Coola, those in the area that is...as for that link, I know it's not the greatest...there's better pics on their Nuxalk.net site in fact, and from the MoA at UBC I think...Nuxalk art does need its own article, my thinking was to note alienate a Nuxalk artist who could turn out to be a good contributor...Skookum1 (talk) 07:20, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
As I mentioned in the edit summary, the low-quality link was added by a WP:SPA account, who's only contributions were adding links to his own webpages. We don't allow COI link canvassing, even for good-quality links. OhNoitsJamieTalk15:07, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, but you can talk to new editors and encourage them to contribute other information. Obviously this individual knows more about Nuxalk art than any of us would. I reguarly remove people adding their own names to lists but try to encourage them to contribute in other ways. -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:27, 12 August 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
a "live one" is right.....I'm thinking I should de-watchlist that page, here's more of why. I see a lot of "our" and "us" on NA/FN pages....the Sinixt propagandist who was so hostile to Ktunaxa content is another......how many citation tags can one paragraph have anyway?Skookum1 (talk) 10:06, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, this one's going to be a headache, but hopefully not as bad at the Kentucky Confederate "Cherokee" group as few years back. -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:00, 20 August 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Cherokee Nation of Mexico
OK, I do get from spirit that you *are* trying to help. Uyvsdi, you know how our people are used to attacking each other.... matter of fact, we reserved that right in the USA + Indian Nations treaty after the Civil War to promise to keep the peace between the CN, the USA and the other Indian Territory nations... but the CN reserved the right to keep up its ancient internal Internicene war. We are peacemakers, we knew exactly who we are, and don't want or need anything from the USA, the CN, the UKB, or the EBCI. I did read the COI rules, and am trying to figure out the rest. This is a whole new world for us and we are a bit on the defensive. I deleted a pointed to our website in one spot, and I see we are gonna have to cull some things, or whatever. I didnt see that we were doing any more promotion than the CN Tahlequah was doing... and fair is fair and tey dont like to play fair. Personally, I just don't understand why interviews with Mexicans families on the ground who hid out Sequoyah's grave are not permissable, but oh well. Let's figure it out. There was more Mexican news coverage, much of it in print, and there was a wiki article on Politico Mexico back in the day, but it has been over ten years. I can't promise Dr. Rogers and Durbin will budge on some issues of tradition, history and language, but Dr Rogers does have two earned degrees in medicine from Mexican Medical Universities, has a scientific mind, and obviously knows how to do research, and does understand rules. I only went part way through grad school, and I am 'splaining things to him. Wado equuaa. Sgi. Uyvsdi (talk) 17:26, 23 August 2013 (UTC) Anuyunwiya — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aniyunwiya (talk • contribs) 02:39, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
Geez Louise, please find a definition of "primary source" (which is not admissible in an encyclopedia) and "secondary source," which is admissible. Who you know socially is entirely irrelevant here. -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:26, 23 August 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Seriously, read some of the policy statements, in this case: Wikipedia:Copyright violations. Everything that goes here must be released under CC-BY-SA 3.0 Licenses (every page says that—they cannot possibly make it more explicit). You can't just cut-and-paste to create an article. -15:57, 26 August 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Dear Uyvsdi, the state recognition rules in the USA have no resemblance to those in Mexico. When a Mexican state recognizes a tribe, so does the entire Republic. Aniyunwiya (talk) 06:24, 26 August 2013 (UTC) Aniyunwiya
Uyvsdi, GREAT job on the overhaul! Very helpful and Wiki third party neutral correct. Thanks for taking the interest and the precious time... and I say that sincerely. Sorry if I offended, but we and many others have been targeted by CNO, and Larry Echhawk set them straight, and Chad Smith is history. BTW, did you know the Eastern Band produced a film claimed the Mayans and Aztecs descend from the Cherokee? I haven't seen it yet... it was on a DNA related webpage. The requested copyvio copyright permission email was sent yesterday from the email addy listed on our website. Four Directions website you cited DID list us as Federally recognized in Mexico... but that's OK no biggie for now. I corrected one understandable error... we aren't 501(c)c3 and if you go back to the IRS page, you'll see that we are listed differently. We are not just a Christian church, so I also listed what the IRS says we are. Good catch on the BofA lawsuit!. 1954 was the date of the IRS code, not of our listing in Brownsville. Our associate Dr Reyes in Matamoros took time away from consulting with Cancer patients and got on the phone with Mexican government officials to help wiki clarify our political status. I am told good news is coming later today. We'll see... you may be surprised. Will advise ASAP. Woosta! (Wonderful) Wado equaa. (Thanks a lot) Aniyunwiya (talk) 16:51, 27 August 2013 (UTC) Aniyunwiya
After fixing the gross errors that were on Sts'Ailes last night, and then confronting the goalpost-moving of Maunus re what had been titled Salish mythology (which should be PROD'd IMO) I'm realizing that "Garbage In Garbage Out" is where Wikipedia is headed; mountains of SYNTH and OR and POV/COI, including that Cherokee Nation thing...came here to you about the "Salish" mythology thign because of the recent Kalispel/Flathead discussions; an article using "Salish" that combines the Montana group with only the "Squamish" is so far out of line it takes my breath away; hearing Maunus pontificate as to why it's OK is starting to nauseate me.....I'm looking for the Latin phrase for "ignorance and arrogance triumphant" as a new logo/motto for Wikipedia....so much garbage, so many errors, so many mis-usages, so many people creating/doing things piecemeal, so little real knowledge, just people playing definition games and rule-tweaknig......it really is the end of civilization.....in re Category:Haisla people and Haisla people it/'s a further example of how confused things are getting; but using Salish/an as though they were a unified people and set of beliefs is OR in the extreme, and no amount of twaddling equivocation can justify it. Just trying to fix the Kemano article of some bad copy there I used "Haisla" and got a dablink notification - because it's another of those terms that kwami went and moved and didn't clean up after himself......people making work for others without doing anything constructive themselves is just so F@#$^@#$#$^ aggravating.Skookum1 (talk) 03:17, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
Skookum1, I know zero to nothing about Salish religion, so can't really contribute anything useful to the discussion. -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:26, 23 August 2013 (UTC)Uyvsdi
This is an archive of past discussions with User:Uyvsdi. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
