User talk:Uyvsdi/Archive 6

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Native American Women in the Arts

Here was that page I was speaking of creating earlier: Native American women in the arts

Just letting you know about it! It isn't as comprehensive as I'd like, but school has started again, and I felt that someone else could contribute.--Henriettapussycat (talk) 23:47, 4 September 2011 (UTC)

Wow! That is really impressive work to complete in such a short time. I'm on the road right now, but will happily contribute in a day or so. BTW you might enjoy reading works by Nancy Marie Mithlo (Chiricahua Apache), especially her recent book, “Our Indian Princess”: Subverting the Stereotype. -Uyvsdi (talk) 03:53, 5 September 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Glad you like it. I'm really into research so, yeah I did some intensified research in a small amount of time--but for me it's a hobby. Thanks for all the book suggestions you have given too!--Henriettapussycat (talk) 22:41, 5 September 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion for WikiProject United States to Support WikiProject Oklahoma and Tulsa

--Kumioko (talk) 23:47, 13 September 2011 (UTC)

3.. millennium BCE in North American history

Hello Uyvsdi, are you sure about this edit? The 3.. millennium BC in North American history provides --Diwas (talk) 20:07, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

D'oh... took me a second! -Uyvsdi (talk) 00:51, 20 September 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Mississippian copper artwork

I began this article last year Mississippian copper plates and haven't had time to finish it up. I was wondering if you have any info on any of these( Mangum copper plate, Wulfling plates, Rogan plates, etc.). I have a few of the newer books from the last few years, and have found a few things online(see refs in draft) but if you had anything useful, please forward it my way. I think I may have time to work on it again soon( I've been busy IRl last few months and have most done some vandalism control and general patrolling, not many actual new edits or articles) and hopefully move it to mainspace. Hope you are well, Heiro 17:54, 18 October 2011 (UTC)

Awesome work! I'll dig through my library. Is it okay if I edit your sandbox page? -Uyvsdi (talk) 01:11, 19 October 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Sure! Looking forward to seeing what you dig up. Right now nothing is finalized on the page, I've sorta just put everything onto the page that I have so far. When I get the text more finalized, I'm gonna make a map, possibly a few new illustrations. Heiro 01:14, 19 October 2011 (UTC)
Will get on it. Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 01:33, 19 October 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
I found a book online about the Wulfing plates, hoping to get it in the next week or so, hopefully sooner but its coming by USPS, lol. And I have found a few other things in some of my books here. Will let you know how it comes together. Heiro 03:06, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
Interesting, because the subtle variations between the plates are fascinating. I see you didn't repeat Susan C. Power's theory about the Rogan plates representing a male and female; it wasn't very convincing. I'm wondering if published images of the copper plates would be legal to upload to Wikimedia Commons under a pd-old license. -Uyvsdi (talk) 18:47, 20 October 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Its not very convincing to me, and most of the other actual experts(i.e. real archaeologists and anthropologists unlike myself, lol) don't seem too convinced by her yet either as far as I can tell. In fact I saw somewhere that the avian character is thought to represent a male-generative property as opposed to the female of the underworld. I'm not sure about the PD for photos, but would love to. I dont have any good photos I've taken myself of any of the plates so am having to rely on my drawings so far. I have found lots of great photos online and in my books but not sure how they would qualify for PD, if they would be considered derivative works or have their own claim to copyright. I may have to ask someone soon at the ref desk, because drawing all of the stuff I want to include would be more time than I can invest right now, lol. Heiro 19:00, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Abba dabba dabba...

Just an FYI that on the disambiguation issue, I think I'm mostly in your camp, even if I'm not quite in 100% sync. I kind of have mixed feelings on the issue and, like you, tend to prefer a term go to the primary use article, not a dab. But I've also weathered enough stupid editing wars over this that I'm too burned out to fight about it much, I prefer to sigh and just go, "whatever the wiki disambiguation gods want this week..." My own oar is to just avoid offensive terminology (or "offensive to some" terminology) if they must do dabs. (For example, I'm not big on "tribe" unless that's what a people or nation specifically want to be called). Montanabw(talk) 19:23, 19 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I definitely had a stress headache yesterday, which calls for a wikibreak. "People" does seem like to be the best catch-all term. It seems that policies geared for major populations don't translate to extremely small groups that might only have two articles with their name in the entirety of Wikipedia (people and language), and much of the time those two articles don't even have the same name, so dab pages are absurd. -Uyvsdi (talk) 01:10, 20 October 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
I've had less wiki stress since I added the stress meter to my talk page! (Change the number, change the level of stress, cool, whoever created it) Some sort of psychological tension valve, I guess! Go figure! LOL! Montanabw(talk) 19:03, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

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Talking stick/circle merger

Hello, I just want to mention that I put a comment about the merger. In short, to make the circle page complete, I will have to put all the material from the stick page into it. And likewise for the stick page. Otherwise the material will be incomplete and less effective. (Before I started, talking stick was nearly useless from the aboriginal perspective, and there was no circle article.)

Also, having to work two pages will delay the final product, and its acceptance into mainstream society. I hope you can see my point of view and reconsider your opposition. --John Bessa (talk) 20:59, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Grit-tempered pottery

Do we have any articles that discuss "grit-tempered" pottery? I'm finishing up an expansion of Ashworth Archaeological Site, relying primarily upon a report from a test excavation at the site; almost all of the pottery that they found was either shell-tempered or grit-tempered. I've observed that shell tempered pottery redirects to Mississippian culture pottery, but I was hoping to find an article that gives grit-tempered pottery more coverage than the two passing mentions in the Mississippian pottery article. I already asked Heironymous Rowe for help, but he pointed me to you. Nyttend (talk) 04:08, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

A section for it could easily be created in Native American pottery, which is woefully incomplete, and ironically has a southeastern focus due to the biases of Wiki editors. -Uyvsdi (talk) 05:11, 2 November 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Sacajawea image

Hi Uyvsdi, just wanted to stop by and say awsome job providing that photo for the Native American slavery article. It really brings it more to life. Have a great day!Mcelite (talk) 18:09, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Hey McElite, I always think it's funny that Lewis and Clark are hailed as heroes, when they need a pregnant, 12-year-old girl to show them around. I do want to add to the Slavery among the indigenous peoples of the Americas article someday since it's so neglected (but I can't procrastinate from doing real life work all the time!). Maybe have mentioned this before, but there's a book coming out, Red Atlantic, that will discuss the taking of slaves from North American mainland to the Caribbean and vice versa. -Uyvsdi (talk) 18:14, 4 November 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Now that sounds interesting I'll have to see when a date for the release is on that book. Yes, a lot people don't realize Sacajawea didn't willingly married the french man and was a slave. It's quite disappointing.Mcelite (talk) 19:50, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
It makes her accomplishments all the more amazing. -Uyvsdi (talk) 23:25, 7 November 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Native Americans in the United States

Can you offer some help with this [1]. The editor is on some sort of crusade, what about I'm not quite sure. See also this [2], [3], and the discussion Talk:Native Americans in the United States#Strychnine. The quote seems to be from a reputable author, but the editor seems to think "white men" of that age wouldn't have resorted to that sort of behavior, at least that's what I am guessing. Any input would be helpful. Heiro 23:47, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

This started up again today [4] and [5](see the edit summary) and I don't like how it is turning into a slowmo edit war. The editor has yet to come up with any objection other than WP:IDONTLIKEIT, no sources to support his assertion that it is either false or exaggerated. I replied to the latest edit on the article talkpage[6]. I really wish some other editors would chime in one way or the other, I don't like how it is becoming xe and I reverting each other. Is there a project page or other where we could ask for univolved opinions on the matter? Heiro 22:03, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

I think...

..."first" here referred to "independent", e.g. not controlled by a tribal government. It could well be the first in that sense, so I would've given it a {{cn}} for a while... Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 03:43, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Akwesasne Notes was founded in 1969. Right now, I'm reading how Jimmie Durham says the founder wasn't Native. Ha ha, that's the pot calling the kettle white. -Uyvsdi (talk) 03:46, 7 November 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
LOL Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 03:47, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

Lame Deer

That the place in Montana is the primary topic appears to be contested. Page views are not the only metric for primary topic. Cheers! -- JHunterJ (talk) 01:33, 12 November 2011 (UTC)

That's fine with me. Cheers, Uyvsdi (talk) 17:27, 12 November 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

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Colombia and Venezuela cultural area

I notice that you just moved Colombia and Venezuela to South America in Classification of indigenous peoples of the Americas. I had placed Colombia and Venezuela in the Circum-Caribbean area based on Steward (Steward, Julian H. (1948) Editor. Handbook of South American Indians. Volume 4 The Circum-Caribbean Tribes. Smithsonian Institution Bureau of American Ethnology Bulletin 143). The cultures of the northern coast of South America are more closely related to the cultures of Central America and of the Caribbean Islands than they are to the cultures of the rest of South America. Do you know of other sources that contradict that analysis? I realize that the division of South America into cultural areas is not as clear as it is in North America (which is itself a simplification), but I think cultural affinities are more important here than modern geographical constructs. -- Donald Albury 11:06, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

I'll move it back and eliminate "South America" section heading, since "North America" has already been eliminated and the subsections don't correspond to the two continents. Steward's divisions are a good foundation but they are woefully out of date, and I'm amazed how little energy has gone into defining cultural regions for the hemisphere. Or maybe all the discussion is in Spanish and Portuguese. I've followed NMAI but haven't seen scholarly material published by them about their choice of section headings. They only have "Mainland" and "Island" divisions until Circum-Caribbean.
On a slightly different note, do you have El Museo del Barrio's "Taíno: Pre-Columbian Art and Culture from the Caribbean"? The similarity between Taíno and Weeden Island ceramics is amazing. Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 21:11, 1 December 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Haven't seen that. I wonder what other authorities have to say about it. I would note that ceramics appeared in the southeastern U.S. at least 2,000 years before they did in the Antilles, and the earliest pottery in the Antilles was clearly related to that of the Orinoco basin. It has been pointed out in other contexts that the Taino used a typically South American suite of cultivated crops, while a Mesoamerican/North American suite was used in the southeastern U.S., with no evidence of overlap. There have also been claims about earlier cultural contacts between northern South America and the southeastern U.S., which I've mentioned in Ceramics of indigenous peoples of the Americas#Southeastern Woodlands. I tend to be skeptical of claims of cultural connections that skip over large intervening areas. -- Donald Albury 10:46, 2 December 2011 (UTC)

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Domo arigato, Mr. Roboto. -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:30, 7 December 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

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Magic

Yes, I'm just that good, but when I'm not appearing magically out of nowhere to block school IPs, you'll have better luck at WP:AIV. ;) You might like to report vandals there in future once they get past their final warning. Best, HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 20:31, 8 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for tip! Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 20:32, 8 December 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Re: December 2011

Concerning Cherokee freedmen controversy and your revert/message. First of all, the template removed was for images that were deleted. CherokeeDiversity.png and CherokeeDiversity2.png. Both were recently removed from the article by ImageRemovalBot as you can see in the Revision History, here, and here with a image template left behind. I removed that template as there are no pictures there anymore. Seems pretty reasonable. Two, I changed the lead to a shortened lead to streamline as it was getting bloated not to mention had edits that didn't match the cites (Example: the Jan 14, 2011 ruling voided the amendment and Aug ruling was in response to that, not for the March 2007 actions.) and material that was long updated in the main article ("The Cherokee Election Commission is working to provide ways for the Freedmen to vote in the scheduled special election for Principal Chief." An agreement was already made). I turned the the last paragraph into a sentence encompassing all that happened from the legal proceedings to the current court situation. I did not remove any cites. In fact, some of those cites in the lead are the same cites that I contributed. They are still there. And third, "does not appear constructive". Before assuming bad faith, look at what was changed. Copy editing is correcting "formatting, style, and accuracy of text", no?. Shortening a lead does fall into that. Stormshadows00 (talk) 07:52, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Dates for this?

According to the description for this image file, it's (1840-1901), according to our article John Wilson (Caddo) it is (1860-1901). It was recently changed at Caddo [7] from agreeing with our article to agreeing with the image file. I don't know which is correct, as I would like to make them all agree, so any ideas which it actually is, lol? Also per this, your welcome. Hope all is well and Happy Holidays! Heiro 20:19, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Commons is usually not fact checked or cited, so that's probably the odd man out, but I'll check it out. Happy holidays to you! My holidays will start when I finish this #(&$*(&@$ never-ending painting, which would probably go quicker if I weren't procrastinating on Wikipedia. Cheers, Uyvsdi (talk) 21:17, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi
Hahaha, I'm having EXACTLY the same problem right now, trying to finish up a commissioned group portrait and am having a horrible time. I've been working on my last two of the season over the last week, the other just flowed and is great but this &$*(&@$ing thing just wont &$*(&@$ing work, dammit! Good luck with it, lol. Heiro 21:22, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
Nothing like a deadline to whip you into shape! John Wilson was born around 1840 - that was my mistake in the article, so I've corrected it with references. Thanks for catching the error. Cheers, -Uyvsdi (talk) 21:32, 18 December 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

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UKB

Just wanted you to know it wasn't me that changed your changes. I tried to change them back after the other guy changed them but tried individually rather than just using "Undo" so it probably didn't come out the same. Chuck Hamilton (talk) 05:07, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

I know – I always check edit history. It's just lame when people's political spats spill over to Wikipedia. I'm hoping the article can stay NPOV and stick to facts. I removed some of the contested statements because they aren't really a big deal. -Uyvsdi (talk) 05:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)Uyvsdi

On NAGPRA

Hi Uyvsdi,

I plan to do some work on the NAGPRA page, but want to be sure I detail correctly, and am in no hurry. Am happy to collaborate. One museum not mentioned is PAHMA, which has been at the heart of some controversies. In terms of tribes not recognized, the reason I generated a proper noun (Federally Recognized Tribes) is because I'm on my way to making a statement about federal recognition and what that means for non-recognized bands, such as several in California. Recent congressional discussion waged on "Federally Recognized Tribes" contrasted with others. Also, NAGPRA has nine evidential criteria, which I'll describe in brief, trying to figure out how they best compliment the page already there. A couple of tribes have won claims based on language-use evidence, that is interesting. KSRolph (talk) 06:43, 25 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikiproject Oklahoma

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Re Tribal Art

I am not sure if I am entering this correctly on your talk page.

You have recently edited the page on Tribal Art, your contribution is most welcome. However, the page now reads with a bias towards anthropology which is incorrect. Within the field, anthropology has measured importance. The described balance and emphasis should be inclined towards the artistic. 'New World' is also the accepted terminology, not 'Arts of the Americas'. Please return to the page and make appropriate edits. Very kind wishes, Docludi

Kind regards, Uyvsdi (talk) 17:57, 11 January 2012 (UTC)Docludi

a) Post new messages at the bottom of a talk page, b) sign your posts with four tildes (~) preceding your name, c) I cited my edits. The Tribal arts article was a brief, incoherent mishmash of statements and advertising links, so I cleaned that up. If you want to change it further, by all means, feel free to do so. "Arts of the Americas" is absolutely a common term used by museums, probably because they are trying move away from eurocentrist viewpoints and accurately define a geographic region. -Uyvsdi (talk) 17:57, 11 January 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

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Hello, Uyvsdi. You have new messages at CaroleHenson's talk page.
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Images

Hi Uyvsdi If you can, I have a request for you to please upload some imagery of Santa Clara (black) and Acoma pottery for Carole's article and for these articles: Acoma Pueblo and Santa Clara Pueblo, New Mexico, thanks...Modernist (talk) 01:39, 18 January 2012 (UTC)

Sounds good! -Uyvsdi (talk) 03:16, 18 January 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

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Wikipedia Stories Project

Aloha!

My name is Victor and I work with the Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit organization that supports Wikipedia. We're chronicling the inspiring stories of the Wikipedia community around the world, including those from readers, editors, and donors. Stories are absolutely essential for any non-profit to persuade new people to support the cause, and we know the vast network of people who use Wikipedia have so much to share.

I find stories that drive our annual fundraising efforts. It's important to convey the incredible diversity of people who've come to rely upon Wikipedia every day.

I'd really like the opportunity to interview you to tell your story, with the possibility of using it in our materials, on our community websites, or as part of this year’s fundraiser to encourage others to support Wikipedia.

Your work on Indigenous Peoples of the Americas is great, and your number of edits is astounding!

I'm hoping you will elaborate on your story with me, either over the phone, by Skype, by facebook, by email, or any means you like. Please let me know if you're inclined to take part in the Wikipedia Stories Project and we'll set up a good time to discuss further.

Thank you,

Victor Grigas

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Victor Grigas (talk) 19:21, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

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The Wikipedia page "User talk:Donblade" has been created on 11 February 2012 by Uyvsdi, with the edit summary: request not to put Ebay links in articles

Dear Uyvsdi,

I hope that this note finds you well. I attempted to find another source for validating the importance of Native American cuff bracelets (for about a half hour only, I admit, and I did not ask my wife, the true expert). Still, I could not think of a better source for validation of the importance of these objects collectibles than to link to an e-bay information page. I know that it might not appear to be kosher on the face of it (and will gladly bow to wikipedia's rules and your expertise), but did you following the link? It only leads to an informational resource. If this is still not acceptable, I will look elsewhere (and ask my wife for help).

Let me know.

Have a great day, Don

PS What is the significance of "Uyvsdi"? Don Blade is my video game handle. Donblade (talk) 23:15, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I did follow the link. It was an unattributed, uncited, self-published blurb about how cuff bracelets are theoretically "bohemian chic." You don't have to "bow" anything, just please read WP:Reliable sources. I have 6K+ wikipedia articles on my watchlist but somehow Native American jewelry, a subject upon which literately thousands of legitimate books have been written, is the one article routinely stuffed with self-published "references." - Uyvsdi (talk) 02:48, 13 February 2012 (UTC)Uyvsdi

Speedy deletion nomination of Piranha River

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Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself. If you plan to expand the article, contest the deletion by clicking on the button that looks like this: which appears inside of the speedy deletion ({{db-...}}) tag (if no such tag exists, the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate). Doing so will take you to the talk page where you will find a pre-formatted place for you to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. You can also visit the article's talk page directly to give your reasons, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. Yasht101 (talk) 07:37, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

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Wikimedia Stories Project

Hi!

My name is Victor and I'm a storyteller with the Wikimedia Foundation, the non-profit organization that supports Wikipedia. I'm chronicling the inspiring stories of the Wikipedia community around the world, including those from readers, editors, and donors. Stories are absolutely essential for any non-profit to persuade people to support the cause, and we know the vast network of people who make and use Wikipedia have so much to share.

Your work on the Indigenous Peoples of North America is remarkable.

I'd very much like the opportunity to interview you to tell your story, with the possibility of using it in our materials, on our community websites, or as part of this year’s fundraiser to encourage others to support Wikipedia. Please let me know if you're inclined to take part in the Wikipedia Stories Project.

Thank you for your time,

Victor Grigas

user:Victorgrigas

vgrigas@wikimedia.org

Victor Grigas (talk) 19:57, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Native American Lending Alliance

Hello. Back on February 8,2012, I requested the creation of a page for the Native American Lending Alliance (NALA) on the Wikipedia:Requested articles/Business and economics/Businesses and organizations page since I have conflict of interest as I represent the organization in its Wikipedia outreach efforts. NALA is an association of Native American tribes that provides financial products for underbanked consumers and creates new economic opportunities for Native American communities. However, no action has been taken. In regards to media mentions, since submitting this request the New York Times has published a letter to the editor by a NALA board member and the Denver Post published an Associated Press article mentioning the organization.

I see that you work on Native American-related articles. I would appreciate any assistance in successfully getting a Native American Lending Alliance article created. Thanks. --Digistrat (talk) 13:55, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Hi. When you recently edited List of Native Americans of the United States, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Lipan Apache (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

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Hi. In your recent article edits, you've added some links pointing to disambiguation pages. Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.

Classification of indigenous peoples of the Americas (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
added a link pointing to La Paz Department
Panará people (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver)
added a link pointing to Ge language

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