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Hello, TheFutureGood, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like this place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:
...because it will get you blocked and your ability to edit removed. I understand you feel passionately about certain subjects, but reverting repeatedly is like hitting yourself in the head with a hammer and expecting it to not hurt you each time. People do not suddenly up and say - 'hey, this guy is reverting me twice; I'll suddenly see the light about their edit'. What they actually do is to either edit right back or simply report you for edit-warring, and you end up sitting on the sidelines while others point and laugh. Well, maybe not that, but getting blocked for refusing to work with others diminishes your credit as an editor here. And understand, most of us are here for the long haul, not just a few weeks out of the year. Work with people, and find a solution. You might not win, but you will find yourself better able to understand the nature of the opposing viewpoint. That in itself is worth the price of admission. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 05:34, 22 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, for someone claiming to be the Future Good, you are creating a lot of trouble in the present.... I have provided reasons for removing Rudolph (see also Wikipedia:Lead). I moved the story books part to the previous sentence (that does not have to be referenced, by the way, only information "challenged or likely to be challenged"). Joost 99 (talk) 16:07, 23 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for introducing me to the 'lead' page. It further supports my rudolph agruments.
'The lead serves both as an introduction to the article and as a summary of its most important aspects.'- Rudolph is the most notable reindeer, and certainly one of santa's most important folk legends, proving he needs to be mentioned somewhere in the lead.
'The lead should be able to stand alone as a concise overview of the article. It should define the topic, establish context, explain why the subject is interesting or notable, and summarize the most important points—including any notable controversies.'- One of the most notable contriversies associated with santa is the number of reindeer that pull his sleigh. The difference between the numbers is ALWAYS Rudolph. In order for readers to got a complete picture of santa claus, all that is needed is under 10 extra words that explain the number of reindeer. For something so small in size, it adds so much to the lead and the readers understanding.
'While consideration should be given to creating interest in reading more of the article, the lead nonetheless should not "tease" the reader by hinting at—but not explaining—important facts that will appear later in the article.'-8 or 9 reindeers is a tease. The reader is likely to wonder WHY it is eight or nine, with a few words we can clear this up for them, as to provide them with answers rather than more questions.
Please read 'Jack Sebastian' talk page (at the bottom) and read my arguments there. By now surely I have made my point. I am sick of people not listening to me about this, I dont mean agreeing, i mean 'listening'. If you read the comment that he gave me back, it didn't address my rebutal of his excuse of avoiding 'number specifics' when number specifics were and still are already there, my edit was merely to EXPLAIN the number specifics, rather than create them.
I will consider agreeing to just remove '8 or 9' out of the article (which i didnt put in there), and having a seperate section (out of the lead), addressing the debate or 'controversy'. But if '8 or 9' stays, then so does 'rudolph' as without specifing him, the '8 or 9' part can become confusing.
Please reply to this and really LISTEN to every point i have made, you must logically, and seperately address each point, if you have counter agrugments. Otherwise i will just brush you off. I will give in only to what is best for the article, whether it is your way or mine, but it must be proven to be the best way, and clearly explained. TheFutureGood (talk) 01:59, 24 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I removed it because you were introducing the name "Rudolph" without any explanation. Who is this Rudolph?? Why would he be the exception?? If that's not teasing, I don't know. You say it adds to the readers understanding, but in my opinion it only adds confusion. You have to take into account that people opening this article could have no knowledge about Santa what so ever, you assume some sort of pre-knowledge of the fact that the reindeers are named, and that Rudolph is one of them. So I on my turn feel you haven't listened to my rational.
Concerning your point on including the numbers 8 or 9 (which I see) and the importance of Rudolph in the lead, please take that to the talk page of the article, so that everyone who wants can have their say. That way you avoid it being a two or three way discussion, someone "not listening" or you having to point me to someone's talk page to find your arguments.
