This is an archive of past discussions with User:Philg88. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Philg88, your map appears prominently in the recently featured article Æthelred, Lord of the Mercians. Aside from the general high quality of the map, I noticed what may be an error in how a bit of continental Europe was labeled in the lower right of the map. It was labeled Fresia, by which you may have intended Frisia, but Frisia did not extend that far south. Possibly the area should be labeled Frankia or West Francia. Thanks! Nesbit (talk) 00:18, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi Nesbit and thanks for letting me know about this. That was how that area was labelled in one of the original source maps so it may well be incorrect. To be on the safe side, I've removed it altogether since it's not really germane to the map topic anyway. Cheers, Philg88 ♦talk06:27, 5 August 2014 (UTC)
I see that you are active at the map request page. I recently added a request, but I wanted to explain that it isn't so much a "please make this map for me" as it is a help question - I'd like to use a map which already exists as a location map. I'm missing what has to be done, and willing to do so, but hoping for a pointer to the steps needed. I tried a search, but failed. I believe I need to identify the four corners of the map as coordinates, I suspect there is an easy way to do that, but I don;t know what it is, and I think I need to create a template using those coords. I think I've seen that you done some similar cases, so I am hoping you can just tell me what is needed, and I can do it.--S Philbrick(Talk)13:42, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi there and thanks for the message. First off, you should be aware that templates are deprecated and that new location maps are now created in the module space. There is a tutorial here. As you correctly identify, the key is to identify the corners of the map. The easiest way to do this is with OpenStreetMap's export function. Once you have the general location on screen, select the export function from the menu bar, at which point it will probably complain that the area is too large. Either way, click on the "manually select a different area" under the coordinates shown, then move the corners of the displayed pink rectangle to where you want them. You now have the "box" of coordinates, which you can plug into your new module. Hope this helps but if not let me know. Cheers, Philg88 ♦talk15:16, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick reply. I may not get to it right away, as I have to prepare for some all day classes, but I will try this soon.--S Philbrick(Talk)15:20, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
It sort of worked, on the other hand, it failed miserably.
Duluth looks fine, but that's not where Boston is located.
I need to point out that my immediate goal is only tangential to Wikipedia, I am trying to clean up
my sandbox image but I also have
long term plans to create maps in List_of_NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament_venues; putting all arenas on
a full USA map will be too cluttered, so I would like to create some regions, at least in the Northeast.
I think I see the problem. The editor did a crop of File:Usa edcp location map.svg
but it looks to me like the crop is closer to Maine than it is to Minnesota. I don't know whether the editor did a
rectangular crop but at an angle, or didn't and should have.
I also note that the underlying image has 807 errors. Should that be addressed by someone?
Rather than try to work with the Northeast map, I thought perhaps I should start over.
What I really need is a map that include Maine in upper right, PA on west and DE on south.
The whole value borders are:
N 48
W -81
E -66
S 38
What's involved in creating such a map? (I can create the locator module)
Does one start with File:Usa edcp location map.svg in Inkscape and do a crop? Can one specify coordinates in
Inkscape or is it done by eye? Is there a better way?
I'd like to see how much of this I can do myself, but if you can point me in the right direction, as you did for the
module, I'll see if I can manage it myself.--S Philbrick(Talk)15:57, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
When you say 807 errors, I'm not sure what you mean. There are a number of W3C validation errors for both maps but nothing like that number.
Making an SVG map from scratch based on geo-referenced data is not a trivial task. You need to be very familiar with tools like Maperitive and Adobe Illustrator (or Inkscape, but I'm not overly familiar with that).
AFAIK there is no way to relate co-ordinates to an SVG in Inkscape, which is why you need Maperitive to do the conversion from the raw data obtained from OpenStreetMap.
I'd be happy to create a map based on your co-ordinates but it might take me a while as I have a ton of other stuff on at the moment. Let me know whatever you decide to do. Best, Philg88 ♦talk16:19, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
I downloaded Maperitive, and managed to create an .svg map but I didn't see how to map it look like other locator maps. I'm guessing there is a set of rendering rules to convert the OSM to the standard location map formats, but I didn't see how to do that, and the documentation is quite weak. I think what I will do is put in a request at Map requests, and if someone else gets to it first, great, if not, whenever you can get to it. If it turns out that my guess is correct, and you have to create a set of rendering rules, I'd love to have the file, as I think I could generate maps of other areas of the country with those rules.--S Philbrick(Talk)20:51, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
@Sphilbrick: That's where the Illustrator/Inkscape stuff comes in for colouring polygons. You could also use JOSM (which, I'm afraid involves another steep learning curve) to pick out the OSM relations for state boundaries etc. and then change their admin level so they are rendered at the requisite Maperitive zoom level - CAVEAT please don't upload the data to OSM if you do this. As I said previously, scratch SVG maps aren't a trivial task (hint: volunteers needed) and I'm not sure that writing a set of rendering rules for Maperative would be any better than what can be done now. I'll keep an eye on your request at the map lab and pick it up if no one else does. Best, Philg88 ♦talk21:06, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
RfA
How are you?? I thought you are one of my best Wikifriend, but it seems that you totally forgot me. I'm not quite active as I was once (for some real life reasons). You haven't even have mailed me once before running for RfA?? I may never know that you are running for adminship if someone haven't told me. This is not what I expected from you. I was the first person to ask you for adminship and now you forgot me. Anyway, I'm 100% sure your RfA will go in the right direction and you will pass without any trouble. My support was with you and always will be with you, good luck, god bless. JimCarter(from public cyber)18:24, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Jim, this is unfair. Philg could NOT email you or notify you, that would be considered canvassing (soliciting votes) which is a definite no-no here. --MelanieN (talk) 18:28, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Melanie Neee... not like that I know about WP:CANVASS. I might have co-nominated you, Phil (I have seen some RfAs where non admins have seconded an RfA. ex- Bgwhite) if you have told me before running for RfA. Bad luck for me but Melanie, please please please don't forget to mail me before you run for the tools, I don't want to miss that one. Cheers, JimCarter(from public cyber)18:46, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Hello! Sorry to bother you. John Bauer (illustrator) has finally come to the top on the CE list. A relatively new user has begun a CE of it. I am a bit concerned though, since the user has so far rewritten large parts of it, entered new, unreferenced facts into the leade, included contradictory information in the text and seems unfamiliar with the WP style regarding biographies. I think it looks rather messy, but I may be wrong. Could you just take a quick look and see if it's ok to do like this. Best, w.carter-Talk11:26, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
I'll certainly take a look kompis but apropos our previous conversation I'm not going to edit the article to avoid a COI with the future GA review. I'll let you know what I think. Best, Philg88 ♦talk17:06, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Now I'm totally confused. The editor appears to have reverted to your version without giving a reason and I see no talk page evidence of a discussion after (s)he left a note on JB's talk page saying the copyedit had been done. ???? Philg88 ♦talk17:20, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
The article have been sitting peacefully waiting in line for a long time now. I made some edits of mistakes that became evident when I got the scripts from you. Then, finally it came near the top of the list at Wikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy Editors/Requests. My last edit was that on 20:56 14 August 2014. And today this editor started to make changes to the article. S(he) rewrote the entire leade and included some new un-sourced material there. Then stared to move around the pics, inserting new facts contradicting facts already in the article and enlarge a pic to abnormal size. I finally had enough and placed a note at the CE request page for the editor to cease, which s(he) did. None of my edits have been reverted by the user. I have now got a note from this editor on my talk page saying s(he) has reverted his/hers edits and is waiting for my reply. I really don't know what to do. The article was this close to being ready for a GA review, and now this happened. An edit war. The last thing it needed. I'm a bit low right now but I will try to leave an answer to the editor in a civilized manner. It might be for the best if we abandoned the plan of having you doing the GA review and do the CE instead. Then at least I know it will be done right. I can always place it in line as a GA nominee. Best, w.carter-Talk19:05, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Looks like you have the situation under control by talking to the editor in question. I'll keep an eye on things so don't worry, JB will make it to GA. Philg88 ♦talk19:43, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for your support and encouragement. I'm taking deep breaths to keep my wa but I was beginning to despair. I'm working on a lengthy answer for the JB talk page now. Life... w.carter-Talk20:00, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Oh, for shame! :) I bet you do not even know the capital of Antarctica! (And do not trust that penguin song. Penguins know nothing of geography. Their areas of expertise are regurgitation of small, silvery fish, and the staring contest.) Anna Frodesiak (talk) 23:29, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
I was reaching for the noose on account of my twice exposed geographic ignorance when it suddenly struck me ... hang on, Antarctica doesn't have a capital. As for singing penguins, I'd advise you to go a bit easier on the baijiu. :) Philg88 ♦talk00:16, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Well. kompis, I think that this sort of comparison is part of human nature - I've heard Shanghai is the Paris of the east; Hainan is the Hawaii of China and probably a couple of others that I've forgotten. I'm not sure what you'd call the article, but if you can satisfy the notability guideline and it complies with the rest of Wikipedia's requirements then why not? :) Alternatively, there is always Culture of Sweden Best, Philg88 ♦talk04:27, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
This removal is not a new one: I have routinely and since several years removed Wikiproject China banners from purely local Hong Kong articles, since I consider that it is logically a parent project of Wikiproject HK, and that, like categories, having Category:China and Category:Hong Kong in the same article would be redundant. Your comment is the first one that I have for such a removal. If I understand what you mean with "sensitivity", then I believe that "sensitive" people would appreciate the expression of such a parentage of projects. Nevertheless, if you believe that some people will feel more secure or that whatever view of the world they have will be better represented by having the two banners, than let's have the two banners. Underwaterbuffalo (talk) 03:59, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the message Underwaterbuffalo. My reasoning is a reflection of the "One country, two systems" philosophy apropos China and Hong Kong. I don't feel that strongly about either way, but given that we have PRC/Taiwan issues elsewhere with some heavy POV advocates on both sides, I think it's better if Wikipedia stays on the fence and doesn't imply that China has completely absorbed HK by having only a single banner—I know that sounds ridiculous but some people feel very strongly about this sort of nuance. As an aside, further investigation also shows that the addition of the WPCHINA banner is done by a bot (I'm guessing by detecting Chinese characters and the presence of a stub template). Cheers, Philg88 ♦talk04:26, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
From my fairly long experience editing HK related articles, I can tell that such POV pushing for PRC/HK issues is pretty much absent from the English Wikipedia. I would be even quite surprised if someone came here and tried to advocate something along the lines that HK is not part of China. There was an editor very long time ago, who was willing to portray HK as a "country", but the consensus against this point of view has naturally been prevalent since. These "WP China" banners were added by a bot, and I also believe that it was more based on practical aspects than political. So I have rather considered their removal as a mere correction of some bot errance, and again, noone has ever even commented on this. Underwaterbuffalo (talk) 04:46, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Fair comment. As you you say, this is a bot issue not a human one. If removing the banner becomes a problem in the future we can deal with it as and when. BTW, sterling efforts on improving the HK road articles, well done. As you know, my view was in favour of redirects for non-major routes but there are certainly some worth keeping as stand alone articles based on your new sources. Best, Philg88 ♦talk04:54, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. Regarding the redirects, I agree that they make sense in some cases, but then the List of streets and roads in Hong Kong article could be improved by including some of the information contained in the redirected articles, like for instance the origin of the name and the Chinese version of the name. Underwaterbuffalo (talk) 05:05, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for fixing the article. :) It is now moved. (Yayh!) I have noticed that you from time to time like to do DYK's, something that I am totally unfamiliar with. I think this has to be done just after a new article is moved into main. Since you are as much involved in this article as I am, feel free to do one of those if you want to. Best, w.carter-Talk08:25, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
Hey Kompis, you're welcome. As for the DYK, I'm not sure if there is anything "hooky" enough for a submission. Some of the reviewers at DYK are fanatical about referencing and I'm not sure that even if we could pick an interesting fact that we'd be able to provide the necessary citations. It's up to you if you want to go ahead (and I'll help of course if needed) but the clock is ticking and you have 5 days to qualify the article for the DYK window. Best, Philg88 ♦talk09:22, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
(watching) You have seven days now between creation and nomination, and when you nominate the article doesn't have to be all ready, - some get improved in weeks after the nom. Citations are needed, but again, you can add some later. Which article, btw? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:42, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks, but I think I'll pass on this one. Just wanted to mention it.:) Btw, the "|ref=harv" you added to the ref is new to me. What is that? Something I have to add in other places? w.carter-Talk11:21, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
If you use Harvard referencing (which includes {{sfn}}) then you need to provide an anchor point for the citation, which is what "ref=harv" does. You will only see errors caused by the omission of the parameter if you have this installed. Philg88 ♦talk12:19, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
@Belle: I must admit that I hadn't noticed the far out trousers. Henry seems to have had a penchant for dressing up - his books are peppered with pictures of him in all sorts of strange attire. Philg88 ♦talk05:30, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: Projects added. I'm not sure where you want that extra reference. Do you mean where it says "He established the Clergyman's Magazine in 1875, which he edited until 1883"? Philg88 ♦talk05:30, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the nomination. I think that this is the first article I've created that had a prison based DYK hook so don't hold your breath for the next one ;) Philg88 ♦talk13:51, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Will nominate ;) - no more this week, pleasantly busy in RL - please do something about archiving this page, at least get rid of the bot notices, - BracketBot is not in love with you (but with me, and then left, sob) ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:42, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Hey Phil, I have a question since you're running for adminship thought of asking you, let there be two editors, X editor and Y editor. Both of them were editing and improving an article, X editor thought to change its citation style from {{cite}} to {{Sfn}}. And X editor started changing it being WP:Bold. Suddenly Y editor reverted the change with an edit summary WP:CITEVAR and WP:CONSENSUS. X editor started a thread for consensus at it's talk page. Y editor was having a disagreement with X editor. Although the article looks like a mess and have heavy citation clutter with {{Cite}} but still Y editor supported using {{Cite}} with reasons like, Newbies will not understand how {{Sfn}} works. Suddenly another newbie came in and supported editor X. Y editor almost confused and can't handle the situation, he left messages at two admins talk page (Both the admins were good friends of Y editor) and started calling them at the articles talk page for discussion although both the admins have no relation with the article (never have edited that page). Y editor explained one of the admin at the admins talk page that X editor is an inexperienced newbie (X editor helped 1 article to meet GA, 1 article to meet FL and have started 3 DYKs). One of the admin came and took the side of Y editor and accused X editor for WP:BATTLE. I have tried my best to explain the case, now the question arises who is correct, X editor or Y editor?? Didn't Y editor actually canvassed when he called those unrelated admins (admin interven was not required)?? Is it correct to call X editor inexperienced newbie when he have done some good works like DYK, FL, GA?? Did X editor used common sense?? JimCarter(from public cyber)06:35, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi, Jim. Seeing that someday you wish to become an administrator, this is an ideal matter for you to use your judgment skills on. You are well experienced now, so this is perfect. Take plenty of time. Think about it. When you are ready, you tell me what you would do as an administrator. I look forward to hearing what you have to say. And don't rush. Consider all of the options. Philg88 ♦talk08:58, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Let me think... Now, first of all X editor did a mistake. According to WP:CITEVAR changing citation style needs WP:CONSENSUS which in this case X editor initially haven't got. Secondly {{Cite}} and {{Sfn}} format are equally accepted on Wikipedia. The revert by Y editor and it's edit summary was correct and to the point. X editor was correct but the reason provided by Y editor was also correct if the article gets heavy traffic from newbies. Instead of forcing for a total change, X editor must try using tool which helps editing when there is a WP:OVERKILL in the article. Thirdly, According to WP:CANVASS the messages to the admins talk page can't be called canvassing until the messages use unneutral tone. It is also possible that Y editor is not familiar with the works done by X editor so he said "inexperienced" assuming good faith. I will judge the language used by X editor in the discussion and if X editor continues to disagree with the consensus and try to change the citation style against consensus then it can be called WP:BATTLE per WP:IDHT. Now, answering the questions.
According to me Y editor is correct. But if at least two editor support X editor then I would recommend opening a WP:RfC if they feel a more broader consensus is required.
No he haven't canvassed if his messages were neutral and I also assume that the input by the admin were honest and impartial.
Since X editor was involved in creating DYKs, GAs and FLs so calling them "newbie" is not really fair. But I just AGF that Y editor is not familiar with his work.
Thanks Jim That was an excellent script you linked for segregating references - it will be very useful.
As for your original question, your analysis is fine but there is nothing in the dispute AFAICS that requires either admin intervention or action - it can all be resolved on the talk page by the editors concerned. I suppose if X editor felt strongly enough about being called an "inexperienced newbie" (s)he could take it to WP:ANI but I doubt they'd get very far and it might even boomerang. Best Philg88 ♦talk10:08, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
See the question once more, Y editor called Admins when he felt he can't handle the situation maybe because he thought that X editor might WP:EDITWAR. Yes, X editor will get a boomerang if they report it at AIN. Since X editor has started changing the citation style without consensus, that means he lacks the understanding of the policy WP:CITEVAR hence still inexperienced but not newbie because he worked in starting DYKs etc. Btw what would have been your thoughts if I run for adminship?? JimCarter(from public cyber)10:28, 19 August 2014 (UTC)
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Might as well get it over with then: Swedish for mop is "mopp". (Think we nicked it from you guys) And your name shines sooo bright with the new script I managed to find all by my self. Look what you've done to me, I'm a script-seeker now! :) The Force is with You, w.carter-Talk17:32, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
Ah... there is no pleasing some... This might be more appropriate for You then: A hand made, wooden cleaning utility, made in a province near Canton (now known as Guangzhou) and delivered to Europe by one of the SOIC ships, would be called a "sopkvast". Better? w.carter-Talk17:48, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
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