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User talk:MrCellularMrCellular, you are invited to the Teahouse
Input on image decisionHi you are invited to vote for the image to be used on the LG G2 infobox page at Talk:LG G2. Thanks! GadgetsGuy (talk) 05:59, 11 June 2014 (UTC) Question about 4G editHi. Thanks for helping to improve Wikipedia! I have a question about this edit. You added a ref tag pointing to a reference named "4G Licenses RU". Did you mean this to be the name of the following reference, or another one that you haven't added, yet? I ask because an error message says the reference doesn't exist, and I'm not sure if I should try to fix it if you are working on it. Thanks again. —PC-XT+ 04:33, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
Re: iOS 8 & Windows 8You didn't agree with my proposal to remove the extensive product info fr/ the iOS 8 article. My point is that Wikipedia is not a venue for product promotion a la--What Wikipedia Is Not. All that information about any commercial product strikes me as a violation of the (good and useful) rules. Regards, Tapered (talk) 01:22, 22 July 2014 (UTC)
4G § Technical understanding: 100 or 300 Mbit/sI don't understand the reason for your revert of my edit on 4G. I also don't understand the comment "300 with LTE-A". The paragraph in question covers IMT-Advanced, and M.2134 clearly defines a required peak datarate of 100 MBit/s for "high mobility" communication. I don't see how the peak data rate of LTE-A is relevant in a paragraph that summarizes IMT-Advanced. Can you please clarify why you reverted my edit? Thanks. Conquerist (talk) 16:51, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
List of HSUPA networksHi MrCellular. The deletion discussion for this article has come to an end, and it was decided to keep the information. Keeping that in mind I propose to merge the content into List of UMTS networks in form of a separate column with the year of the HSUPA-launch (where available) (including a citation in the "notes" column). I would leave out all information on uplink speeds as they are very likely to be out of date, as well as all information on sold hardware. We could also place a redirect from List of HSUPA networks to List of UMTS networks which would result in less work and maintenance by having all the information together in one list. (This could also be an option for the article List of HSDPA networks, but here it is preferable to wait until the deletion discussion has ended. What do you think about this idea? Nightwalker-87 (talk) 18:22, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
The actual intention behind this idea is that wiki ends up with more and more useless tables dealing with the topic "List of "x" networks", which nobody reads and if somebody does, he'll get outdated information when we talk about content. This is because any of these tables, except the following: List of LTE networks, List of planned LTE networks and List of TD-SCDMA networks are up to date and maintained on a regular basis by (to be honest) mainly by two editors. In the recent months a few improvements have been made @ List of UMTS networks which I really appreciate. Mainly that's it. All other lists namely List of HSDPA networks, List of HSUPA networks, List of HSPA+ networks, List of EDGE networks are neither up to date, nor attract the merest spark of interest by any reader (see wiki page stats). (Is this because nobody finds them or because they are "useless" ?!?) When we look at the maintained pages mentioned before the picture is totally different. I mean it's like "light and shadow" ;-) from my point of view. So why not "collect" information that fits/belongs together into a few maintained tables instead. Another point is: Do we even need all that information - for exampe look at LTE we have two tables here that suit all needs: active LTE networks and planned LTE networks, but we don't create lists like "List of Cat.3 LTE networks" or "List of LTE Advanced networks" or "List of VoLTE networks" simply because there is neither a demand for it nor any interest. Your idea with for the HSPA network list could be a first step to deal with this issue. Don't you think a few general and therefore maintained lists are better than let's say 10 outdated lists with content related and cited edits every once in a while (we're talking about months and years here)? It's all about actuality, invested time, effort, sense, need and quality vs. quantity (and not about server space, which is indeed a funny input to this discussion :-D) Do you understand what I mean? Nightwalker-87 (talk) 22:16, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
I must admit, that the last time I had a look @ List of HSPA+ networks was around the end of last month without having the page in my watchlist. In fact I can see that you again contributed a lot with much effort. Thank you very much! (but I don't issue barnstars by request :-P) I can read out the following points as a compromise from this discussion:
This means we would end up with the following article structure:
Oh, and could you please do me a favor as well and rip out the deployments listed in Evolved HSPA? This conflicts with the List of HSPA+ networks you recently improved. We have a list for deployment dates there already. Thanks in advance. I'll see what I can do concerning the mentioned improvements, but keep in mind: Rome wasn't built in a day. ;-) Nightwalker-87 (talk) 09:52, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Ok, I seem to have misunderstood you with the HSDPA and HSUPA list merger. You meant to create a list similar to List of HSPA+ networks named List of HSPA networks. Sry for that. I still would consider that a favourable idea of yours. Your point with EDGE might be right, we'll see... What I don't understand is the point with List of mobile network operators of Europe. I only picked up YOUR suggestion. I don't mind keeping this specific list. I didn't understand that as being ironic. What is still unclear to me is what you mean with your last two sentences. Apart from that I think we've found a common ground. I saw that you took action on the Evolved HSPA. Great! :-) Nightwalker-87 (talk) 20:54, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi. I meant this: "How could possibly compare to build a city with such lists on WP? Such an utterly bad comparison..." As you've seen, I've started to prepare the LTE list for upcoming future developments (medium term). Looks like you're doing well in qualifing again for a barnstar as I see that you've been very very busy again on UMTS networks! Oh, snap! Oh well it looks like we've found our way back in track again... :-) But I really don't have the impression that anybody cares about what we do here... :-( Nightwalker-87 (talk) 22:31, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
I would like to, but as far as I know the feature "sighted article edits" (aka: every edit has to be sighted by a main article editor who has qualified for this "job" by the number and spread of edits he made) is only available on the German wikipedia. I don't know the reason for this actually... Nightwalker-87 (talk) 17:52, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Quite soon, I shall think, but first we need to think about how we can save some more space. Maybe we can cut the month names to 3 letters that would do a lot together with 3 lines in the column header. Does that work out with wiki formatting? I would prefer that over outsourcing information. I don't expect much to come above Cat. 6 for at least a while because most operators don't have enough spectrum available to combine. Nightwalker-87 (talk) 20:11, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
LTE-CategoriesHi MrCellular. I'm starting this topic to shift the discussion away from the edit history of List of LTE networks. You mentioned: "E-Plus didn't launch a Cat 4 LTE network. 10MHz @Cat4 -> max. 75MBit/s is wrong. That's still Cat 3. Given source ≠ evidence for that" E-Plus indeed did directly launch with Cat4. The (indirect) "evidence" is in the source which you deleted. There speeds much higher than 50 MBit/s were achieved in DL. That is NOT possible with Cat.3 in combination with a spectrum bandwidth of only 10 MHz. The situation is comparable to the 800 MHz Digital Dividend band (b20) with the German spectrum allocation (3x 10 MHz). Here every operator (Telekom, Vodafone, O2) picked up 10MHz each. All launched with Cat.3 and could therfore each only offer 50MBit/s in DL. Telekom also uses 20 MHz @1800 MHz (b3). Here they launched with Cat.3 resulting in 100 MBit/s. Later they upgraded to Cat.4, which allowed them to offer 150 MBit/s with this 20 MHz block. If Telekom only had 10 MHz @1800MHz they would only be able to offer 50MBit/s with Cat.3 or 75 MBit/s with Cat.4, because the number of subcarriers contained in the 20 MHz exactly halves. Further Telekom plans to offer Cat.6 in the countryside by combining band 20 and band 3. They will offer 225 MBit/s what also means Cat.6 (less than 300 MBit/s, but Carrier Aggregation). This is how that works: This aggregation consists of 75 MBit/s from band 20 (10 MHz @ Cat.4) + 150 MBit/s from band 3 (20 MHz @ Cat.4). All mentioned values are theoretical maximum speeds. I have sources for this as well: [[1]] [[2]] [[3]]. I agree that the source for e-plus doesn't mention Cat.4 directly, but by reaching 67 MBit/s > 50 Mbit/s this can definitely not be Cat.3 with only 10 MHz available. To be precise, the category only gives the information how much speed can be achieved per carrier. This is done by improving coding schemes (or by increasing the number of simultaneously used antennas). When a 20 MHz carrier is used this results in the numbers you know and mostly read: Cat.3 100 MBit/s and Cat.4 150 MBit/s. For 10 MHz, each is devided by two. I hope you see the point and that this helped. I must admit I'm 100% sure that this explanation is correct, because I've read this in literature. Would you be so kind and restore the e-plus source, at least preliminary until we found a better one? Thanks. ;-) Nightwalker-87 (talk) 23:32, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
"You also get more than 50 MBit/s on 800 MHz LTE." --> Yes, exactly it is 51,024 MBit/s with Cat.3 according to 3GPP. I'm sorry for not beeing precise enough... But following your explanation I could now argue, that the E-Plus deployment is not even Cat.3 because it is not possible to achieve 100 MBit/s with 10 MHz (as far as it is known they only use 10 MHz) in combination with 64QAM, 2x2 MIMO. Therefore a 20 MHz carrier would be necessary. It would still be the same like with the deployments at 800 MHz, as there is no 20 MHz carrier possible (because of the current spectrum allocation at 800 MHz). In Austria for example operator A1 indeed achieves 100 MHz because they have a contigous 20 MHz block at 800 MHz. What is your explanation for E-Plus achieving 67 MBit/s with 10 MHz? Nightwalker-87 (talk) 22:18, 21 September 2014 (UTC)
Obviously it is possible, that's not what I'm concerned about right now. I also don't doubt that you did achieve these speeds (although I don't have any evidence for it), but how does that work on a technical basis (2x2MIMO, QAM, bandwidth, code rate) ? So far I have found several sources, but following this discussion I'm no longer sure if they provide correct information. I haven't found a good 3gpp source yet, what would be ideal of course. I would like to really get an idea HOW this is achieved technically. Understanding this would also improve our work here. Maybe we should collect some trustable information and sources together and have this topic moved to the "Talk" section of the article "List of LTE networks", because I don't really want to continue filling your personal talk page with this discussion which is still open. Do you agree? (I would prefer if you move it because this is your personal Talk page.) Nightwalker-87 (talk) 15:50, 28 September 2014 (UTC)
Hi MrCellular, I'm back on this topic due to the recent mistake at the Beeline Russia entry. I don't think it is that easy really... I have the strong impression that the relation between device categories and the LTE category supported on network side should be clarified. I think can by now contribute to this topic as well:
Ok, so far, but the question I raise (e.g. concerning the Beeline deployment) is: How can spectrum be aggregated with Cat3? As far as I know CA was defined in "3GPP Release 10", but first introduced (in South Korea) with Cat4 (and higher) UE that had been defined in "3GPP Release 8" already. I other words: The feature of CA from Rel.10 was added to the existing UE Cat4 defined in Rel.8 (there without CA). You can see this in the report you recently added for South Korea [[6]] (CA for LG U+ b1_b5). According to "3GPP Release 10" the first and only combination was just this single combination of b1 and b5. All other possible CA-schemes were introduced from Release 11 onwards with Release 12 beeing the first to introduce 3-band CA schemes. Your source for South Korea (see above) also indicates that 225 MBit/s is also Cat6 if CA is utilized though the theoretical max. of 300 MBit/s is not achievable due to less than 40 MHz available. This also implies that Cat.4 devices are able to archieve 75 MBit/s with only 10 MHz available,
Now let's take a look at the UE categories. This information derives from the specification document 3GPP TS 36.213 [[8]] (page 25 to 34): Let's take a look at table 7.1.7.1-1:
Edit: Cat3 supports up to MCS28 for DL as well, but there is a restriction: Only for a single 10 MHz carrier it is possible to use the amount of 75376 ressource blocks. It is not possible to adress 2 x 10 MHz = 20 MHz with 2x 75376 ressource blocks (RB) - this would end up in 149776 RB like in Cat4. Instead with Cat3 it is only possible to use a 20 MHz block with 75376 (@ MCS28) + 25456 (@ MCS14) = 100832 RB resulting in 100,832 MBit/s. This configuration uses two non equally coded MIMO layers. Alternatively as stated before, two equally coded MIMO layers with 51024 RB each can be combined to 20 MHz with 102048 RB @ MCS 23 respectively 102,048 MBit/s [[9]].
... it would have been much easier. :-/ But as you can see the UE classes mainly depend on modulation, coding schemes and the number of adressable ressource blocks, the different ways of combining the latter (with 2x2 MIMO) and not only on achievable speeds. Another good example is that you can reach 100 MBit/s with only 15 MHz and Cat.3 UE. Before I thought that this was solely possible with a 20 MHz carrier. I propose to move this whole stuff away from here to the "Talk page" and then I'll try to sort the whole stuff somehow. I think we WILL need it as soon as it comes to carrier aggregation of special block sizes for certain operators that don't have enough spectrum ressources to combine 20 MHz. Believe me - it will become even worse from the technical side... :-( Nightwalker-87 (talk) 22:51, 27 October 2014 (UTC)
Reference Errors on 1 November
Please check this page and fix the errors highlighted. If you think this is a false positive, you can report it to my operator. Thanks, ReferenceBot (talk) 00:33, 2 November 2014 (UTC) Passbook (application)Multile editors have disagreed with you on whether the Passbook (application) article should contain the list of companies that have Passbook apps. Repeatedly reverting them without joining a discussion on the talk page could be seen as edit warring. We have explained why we feel that list should not be in the article, based on Wikipedia's guidelines and policies; please provide a rationale why we're all mistaken. "It's useful" by itself is not a good rationale. Huon (talk) 19:17, 5 November 2014 (UTC)
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