This is an archive of past discussions with User:MisterCake. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Do you have a reference that you could add to the Ray Fisher article regarding his being a trainer for Sewanee in 1915? I checked with folks at Sewanee on this, and they have no record of him as a trainer, but say that he was hired as Athletic Director, football coach and baseball coach in the summer of 1915 but then had to back out of the deal due to the prolonged illness of his mother.
The trainer claim seems potentially dubious. The Sewanee Alumni News has him as one of the assistant football coaches, and I have used that as source. Sewanee seems to be right about his hired position as athletic director (see here as well). A Vermonter contributing to southern football (and helping on the '23 Michigan team which beat Vandy,) is a nice way to overlap with my research interests. Cake (talk) 21:55, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
The items the researcher at Sewanee sent me were two articles from Sewanee Purple. The first, dated 9/30/15 is a lengthy piece stating that Fisher has been "secured" as assistant football coach, athletic director, would have charge of basketball and other winter sports, and coach baseball for the first part of the season. Once his season started back up with NY, the manager at the Yankees was to send down a catcher from the team to take over the rest of the baseball season. The second, brief, item is dated 10/7/15 and says that Fisher telegraphed saying that it would be impossible for him to come "on account of the prolonged sickness of his mother" and that "another good man" was being considered for the position. (Fisher's mother died in 1922.) This second piece is dated a couple days prior to Oct. 9 Sporting Life item you linked, so I guess they were just delayed in getting the news.
rlfpal — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rlfpal (talk • contribs) 00:25, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
It is good to know they are so helpful. Hopefully the added language clears up the relation to Sewanee. Dealing with Vandy in 1915; they could have used him. Cake (talk) 21:06, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
1908 LSU professionalism
I haven't looked into it much, but do you know if it was ever concluded that LSU did pay their athletes? And also, do you think if not for the accusations, LSU would have been more widely recognized national champions for this season? It seems odd to me that the university doesn't recognize this championship, seeing some other claims from other schools. Lizard (talk) 15:42, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
One cannot beat this claim. I don't know whether they did or not. I know it was not the only year where Tulane and LSU accused the other of paying players (in LSU's other SIAA championship year, 1896, they beat Tulane only because of a forfeit). Up until 1917, and even later (until roughly 1930) after Pitt creamed Georgia Tech, the south was considered so inferior to the midwest and the east. The pacific coast doesn't get considered quite as weak but it is similar. No champions for them until Cal's "Wonder teams." Even in the 1970s the coast and southern schools were considered weak beach heads unlike, say, the corn-fed Nebraska boys. Stuff like this is why you get "the game that changed the south" for the 1926 rose bowl. I cover some of this in the All-Southern article. LSU is doubly difficult as a kind of borderline southwest school as I mentioned before. Vandy, Auburn, Sewanee comparatively dominate the All-Southern squads. Short answer, no, Penn or Harvard were your national champions. But, could the south have seen LSU as deserving third place? Possibly; they did so for 1906 Vanderbilt. 1909 VPI would have been interesting had they held on against Princeton, but 1909 Yale was a powerhouse. In 1910, Vandy ties Yale in Yale's house to the surprise of everybody, the first time one of the "Big Four" bows to a southern team. "'These are the gladdest of possible words; "Yale Was Unable to Score," Sweeter than song from the clear singing birds, "Yale Was Unable to Score,"" - Grantland Rice. This blog usually gives a fair treatment of the northern orthodoxy. He ranks LSU #11. Cake (talk) 17:38, 18 February 2016 (UTC)
Wikipedia library Newspapers.com renewal
Your free one-year account with Newspapers.com will end on March 2 2016. Newspapers.com has offered to extend existing accounts by another year. If you wish to keep your account until March 2 2017, please add your name to the Account Renewal list here. I'll let Newspapers.com customer support know, and they will extend your subscription. If you don't want to keep your account for another year, you don't have to do anything. Your account will expire unless I hear from you that you want to keep it. HazelAB (talk) 13:58, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
DYK nomination of 1917 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team
MisterCake, I think you are correct that the article is far too detailed. However, I know nothing of gridiron football (and tbh these types of articles have a soporific effect on me!) so I won't be reducing the article's length significantly other than the very long quotation I've moved to the talk page, or obviously out-of-context material. I'll post Partly done on the request, then someone who's more interested than me can finish it off. Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 05:39, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
Baffle, I work almost exclusively on gridiron football articles so I know what's important, and I've got a pretty good handle on copy-editing. It comes naturally to me for some reason. I can take a look at trimming it down a bit tomorrow if Cake is alright with that. I'm not a part of the guild though. Lizard (talk) 07:32, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
That's no problem, @Lizard the Wizard: your interest and expertise (I'm an American, but not really interested in gridiron football :-)) are welcome. When it's done and archived, you'll be credited along with Baffle. All the best, Miniapolis03:27, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
I certainly thank you Baffle for the work, given it is not even of interest to you. The tone seems much more authoritative and straight-forward. Cake (talk) 14:37, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
Thanks both; Lizard the Wizard, you're welcome to work on the article, I've still a few subsections to complete and will change my template when I'm done. I'm glad someone else is around to work on these sports articles! :-) Cheers, Baffle gab1978 (talk) 19:21, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
I can look over it within the next few days then and I'll post here when I think I've done all I can do. Lizard (talk) 06:37, 2 March 2016 (UTC)
@Miniapolis: I think I've done about all I can do. Since the season was only 8 games I don't think the game summaries need any more trimming. The part about Vandy baseball winning the championship that year under the personnel section seems a little random; maybe move it elsewhere or just take it out. Also it's definitely possible I missed some other stuff. Lizard (talk) 20:45, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
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Please do not add the "current_team" label to former players infoboxes. This is for current players only.--Yankees1017:27, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
I will stop that. May I ask why then there is the color palette available for e. g. the Chicago Cardinals or Toledo Maroons if not for old players infoboxes? Cake (talk) 17:29, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
I'll agree the plain grey does look dull, and I'm kinda disappointed when I see that a player played like, 3 games in the NFL, preventing me from using infobox college football player. Colored templates are much perdier. But I could see editors getting into conflicts over which team a player was most known for. And no other sport does it (although it'd be nice to see Mantle or Gehrig's in navy blue, Magic's in purple and gold, etc.) Lizard (talk) 16:15, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
For your massive expansion of Wikipedia's coverage on pre-1930s college football, especially in the South, take this barnstar. Lizard (talk) 15:29, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Everett Strupper you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Carbrera -- Carbrera (talk) 12:40, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
Before you submit a GAN, you may want to prune some of the fair-use images; one or (maybe) two is okay, but more than that may violate non-free content criterion 3a (minimal number of items). Good luck with GA and all the best, Miniapolis20:08, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi MisterCake (that's fun to write!). I happened to run across the article you started on Antoine Sauter, and I found the article to be well written with solid reliable sources. However, it seemed an unusual subject, and I was puzzled that this gentleman received this amount of press coverage. Was foreman and/or master mechanic a position of prominence at that time?--Mojo Hand(talk)16:21, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi there. It seems to have been. The trains were a cultural icon and big business. Compare the source simply titled "The Machine Works" which starts "The Roanoke Machine Works is the greatest industry in operation in Roanoke today." He was foreman of just about every different facet of the operation at different times, and even then was later dubbed "master mechanic", which seemed a mark of pride. Cake (talk) 22:21, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
The Stonewall Brigade Band is another slice of VA's history I've tried to fix. Unfortunately I'm not at the point of keeping all the Civil War battles in my head. T. M. Turner's son marries Sauter's daughter. Cake (talk) 15:51, 21 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello Cake: The copy edit you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article Josh Cody has been completed.
In the 1916 section you might want to briefly explain what the problem was with his eligibility.
You’ll notice that I archived one the article’s citations (#2). I suggest that you archive the rest of the URLs as time allows. This ensures that the article's references are available "forever" and that it doesn’t develop “dead links” over time. The site I use is https://archive.org/web/. Simply copy the URL in your citation and paste it in the box on the archive.org site and click save. It creates a copy of the original page and provides you with a new URL to add to your original citation. If you look at the URLl I've archived you'll see the syntax. You add the new URL to the end of the original citation like this: |archiveurl= http etc|archivedate=13 February 2015}}. Not all websites allow archiving - CBS TV news and the NY Times are two I've come across, so there's not much you can do about that unless there is an alternate citation you could use.
Hello Cake: The copy edit you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article 1906 Vanderbilt Commodores football team has been completed. Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.
I noticed that you did not include that starting lineup for every game and wondered whether this was an oversight, intentional, or the information wasn't available. If it is, you should include it for consistency, at least.
You might notice that I archived one of the article’s citations (#2). I suggest that you archive the rest of the URLs as time allows. This ensures that the article's references are available "forever" and that it doesn’t develop “dead links” over time. The site I use is https://archive.org/web/. Simply copy the URL in the citation and paste it in the “Save Page Now” box on the archive.org site and click save. This creates a copy of the original page and provides you with a new URL to add to the original citation. If you look at the URL I've archived you'll see the syntax. You add the new URL to the end of the original citation like this: |archiveurl=http etc|archivedate=30 April 2016}}. Not all websites allow archiving - CBS TV news and the NY Times are two I've come across, so there's not much you can do about that unless there is an alternate citation you could use.
Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.
Thanks again. I see I have a lot of archiving to do in future. As for the lineups, I often have trouble on opening weekend. Without access to the Technique (student newspaper) for 1920, I suspect it will remain that way. Cake (talk) 23:08, 30 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Florida Gators football you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of AHeneen -- AHeneen (talk) 01:40, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
No problem I am about to graduate this Saturday after that I will have a little more time. You are doing a great job at what you are producing on the page. For a long time I felt like I am the only one who was working on there team. The hardest part is rewriting information so it is not plagiarism. Like the 1898 football team. MDSanker19:06, 10 May 2016 (UTC)
Good for you. From Vanderbilt? or somewhere else? (don't feel like you have to say). That's true about the parts which are just copy-pasted Bill Traughber and such. I wish I knew more about the old University of Nashville's team. Their colors, or a team name - it all remain a mystery. Innis Brown ranks the 1901 Nashville team as among the best in southern history (see the source on the 1906 Vandy team), and the 1902 team had Neil Snow as coach. Snow resigning after 1902 is arguably what sets in motion the coming of McGugin in '04. Cake (talk) 02:51, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
I am graduating from a music school in Nashville SAE Nashville. I remember readying that the colors for the old University of Nashville's team was Red and Blue but I would have to confirm that information. If you would like to talk on facebook you can send me a friend request to Mickey Sanker. I am the only one in the world so it will not be hard to find me.MDSanker02:27, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
I try to avoid facebook. Will probably give in eventually, like with a cell phone. Very neat and rather unexpected it was a music school - I should know better with Nashville. With your help, I found this, which says Nashville was "garnet and blue". Brilliant. That should help in finding their other coaches, say. Cake (talk) 05:52, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
So it turns out the coach of U of Nashville's best team was already IMO the college football hall of fame's biggest oversight. Cake (talk) 08:57, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
"Depth chart" for 1925 Michigan Wolverines football
Hi Cake - I noticed that you recently added a "Depth chart" section to the article on the 1925 Michigan Wolverines football team. This strikes me as problematic for several reasons:
1. The section is completely unsourced. I have done a good deal of research on the 1925 Michigan team and am unaware of any depth chart having been created or published by coach Yost (or anyone else). Do you have a source or sources publishing a depth chart for the 1925 team?
2. The concept of a "depth chart" is an anachronism when applied to football teams of this era. I have not seen a published "depth chart" for any team of this era. Indeed, the "depth chart" did not come into usage for football teams until more than 20 years later. A search of source material shows that the term "depth chart" in the period from the 1910s to the 1930s was used for (a) charts reflecting measurements of the depth of the ocean at various locations (e.g., here and here, or (b) charts showing the variable depths at which seeds and bulbs should be planted (e.g., here and here). The earliest uses of the terminology I have found in connection with a football team's roster date from the post-WWII era -- e.g., a September 1949 NEA wire service report found here, a September 1953 article on the Marquette football team found here, and a November 1954 article referencing Villanova having a depth chart found here.
3. If there is no published source for the section, and given the fact that the use of depth charts did not come into common usage until much later in the history of the sport, then any retroactive effort to "create" a depth chart for a team of this era would violate Wikepedia prohibition on original research described at Wikipedia:No original research.
4. The above issues suggest that there should be no attempt to create retroactive depth charts. However, and even aside from these issues, I am not aware of source material that would support an effort to rate all of the team's players as first, second, third or fourth on a retroactively generated depth chart. For example, take the left halfback position. Louis Gilbert started seven of eight games at the position, so he would properly be considered the #1 at the position. But how did you determine to place Herrnstein #2, Fuller #3, and Babcock #4? This strikes me as consisting largely (maybe wholly) of speculation and/or original research as to how coach Yost might have listed them on a hypothetical depth chart. Cbl62 (talk) 13:17, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
I have been slow to add them not only out of laziness, but so as not to plague all your articles with them in case you dislike them. As to concerns 1) and 3), the source was whatever you used to put together the list of lettermen. So, I assume game summaries and the Michiganensian. Therefore, I will focus on concerns 2) and 4). It's true that depth charts are something of an anachronism. Players were so interchangeable then that a true depth chart would be even lengthier. Formations and starters and substitutions are not an anachronism, however. I think it provides a wealth of visual information to use the same style as e. g. 1996 Florida Gators football team#Depth Chart. You might see e. g. 1910 Vanderbilt Commodores football team#Depth Chart which does not show depth per se, and perhaps needs a better title, but it does give you the starters and some substitutes as they would've lined up on the field when the QB went under center (in a short punt formation). 1928 Florida Gators football team#Depth Chart has a Notre Dame Box and 1917 Georgia Tech Golden Tornado football team#Depth Chart has a jump shift. There is also just plain vagueries like e. g. whether to consider Herrnstein, Fuller, or Babcock the number 2. Then again, such is sometimes the life of subs. PS Dick Babcock looks like he could be a cousin of Tim Tebow. Cake (talk) 14:17, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
I have no problem with depth charts for modern team articles, where depth charts actually exist and sourcing is available. However, I do not think they are appropriate for older teams where the assertions as to who was first-, second-, third- and fourth-string is not available. In the example of the left halfback position for 1925 Michigan, I take it from your reply that you are just speculating ("just plain vagaries") as to who was #2, #3 and #4. That sort of unsourced speculation/guesswork frankly doesn't even rise to the level of WP:OR. As you suggest, there may be a way to provide the "visual" layout you desire and do it in a manner that is compliant with policy. Let me tinker with something this morning and you can see what you think. Cbl62 (talk) 15:22, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
I wouldn't say I was speculating to who was 2, 3, and 4, but that they could be put in any order given the current information. If just an "end" then the next available end slot. If it's known you're a "left end" then the next available left end slot. If you're a "third string left end" then in the third left end spot. With the 1928 Gators, they talk of "first team" and "second team" and so on and even sometimes of strings (see the above reference) to where what I've got is awfully close to a depth chart. I'll be eager to see what you come up with. Cake (talk) 15:30, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Try this on for size. Among other things, I removed the "Offense" notation from the display; that word does not apply since the players of this era played both ways and there was no distinction between offensive and defensive platoons until after WWI. Cbl62 (talk) 16:58, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
Depth chart
The following chart provides a visual depiction of Michigan's lineup during the 1925 season with games started at the position reflected in parenthesis.[1]
Looks good. Of course it was one platoon days, but the offensive and defensive formations were sometimes different though (a single wing isn't a 7-2-2). I don't think they were much different in a short punt, though the QB here is under center and not a safety man, like the offense; and having the halfbacks together on one side as in my version mimics Yost's formation. With that minor addition one can visualize a reverse, etc. Somewhat the point of the formation is the ease with which a QB can become a punt protector and the fullback the punter. With this full house backfield, everybody has to get out of the way for a threat of a punt. Cake (talk) 17:12, 12 May 2016 (UTC)
References
^"1925 Football Team". University of Michigan, Bentley Historical Library. Retrieved May 12, 2016.
Congratulations on having this important but little knwon topic promoted to Wikipedia's Main Page. Fantastic work! Cbl62 (talk) 13:41, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
You flatter me. Glad to see it up there with the Thracian gold wreaths and psychopath index (both the kind of thing with which I can get lost in an encyclopedia). It must be only the captaincy of that team keeping Ormond Simkins (check the stained glass window at Sewanee) out of the Hall of Fame, but Diddy Seibels in it. My second biggest peeve, after if someone ever gets Charley Moran in there. Cake (talk) 13:45, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Pro Football Hall of Fame article improvement campaign
I was looking at that to see if any fit my focus. I can certainly help Guyon's college career, and have tried to do so, but I really don't know much about his later career. Trippi or Parker are really after I know much of what's going on. Lambeau and Pete Henry both need some work, but I could only be an auxiliary. That said, I am glad you do these. It would be neat one day to do one for old college legends of different types (kickers, broken field runners, power runners, passers, etc.). Cake (talk) 18:17, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
Actually, forgot about Cal Hubbard. Centenary's awfully difficult, but it would fit my focus. Cake (talk) 18:20, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
As the only person ever inducted into the College and Pro Football Halls of Fame as well as the Baseball Hall of Fame, I suspect there would be abundant sources on old Cal Hubbard. Just saying, in case you need a side topic to divert your attention for a bit. Cbl62 (talk) 01:11, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
Cake, I see you made some edits to Template:Virginia Tech Hokies football navbox a few months ago to established the history of past names for the school and team. It seems the school or short name for the team was VPI though the 1969 season and the fight name was Gobblers through the 1980 season. How did you establish that history? Ideally we should have these changes detailed and cited on List of college nickname changes in the United States. Also @Krhoch: has been stubbing out missing season articles for the Hokies. Some of those new articles, e.g. 1967 Virginia Tech Hokies football team do not sync up name-wise with what has been laid out in the navbox. I want to make sure we're all on the same page. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 02:27, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
Please note, for future reference, that if you want to move a page from one title to another one, as you did recently with Allison Hubert → Pooley Hubert, you cannot do it by cutting the text from one article and pasting it into the other one — this breaks the page's edit history, because a lot of the content attributions are left buried at the old title. Rather, you must use the "move" tab on a page to move the whole article, edit history included, to the new title — and if there's a reason why the system won't let you do it, then you have to list the page for a move request so that an administrator can move the whole article, edit history included, to the new title for you. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 04:58, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
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Any idea how to upload a cropped version of a commons image without overwriting the original? And while giving credit. Specifically I want to use File:LambeauRetiredNumbers.JPG on Hutson's page, but I'd like to crop it a bit. Lizard (talk) 00:25, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
I would just crop it in MS paint, upload it as a separate file name, and type out some attribution to the original. Not saying it's the best way. Cake (talk) 04:11, 18 June 2016 (UTC)
Clips
Can you clip the article on this page that talks about George Halas introducing a resolution to rename the NFL MVP award to the Joe Carr trophy. I know it's there, I just can't see it since I'm not special enough. Lizard (talk) 02:28, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
Darn, this isn't helping UPI's case for legitimacy. The NEA MVP award had a lot more coverage than I anticipated, maybe because they actually gave a physical trophy. The PFWA award is proving challenging as well. Lizard (talk) 19:47, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
How about one for Montana winning the 1989 AP offensive player of the year? Weird, I can find dozens of articles for every other year's winner on google newspapers but none for Joe. Lizard (talk) 02:07, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
Hi, MisterCake. One of the sentences you were adding yesterday was "Notable losses from the 1905 squad included Bachelor of Ugliness Ed Hamilton, captain Innis Brown, and quarterback Frank Kyle". Unfortunately, you are not providing a citation for that and I am missing the omission so really I am agreeing with Yellow Dingo that there should be a citation there. As for the WP:BAREURLS, I am not thinking that this should apply to GA though I am agreeing that it would matter at FA. The GA criteria is asking only that statements are reliably sourced and your URLs are all doing that, so this is only cosmetic. If you can please to provide formatting for the current citations 10, 34 and 42 I am thinking the issue will be resolved and you will be able to progress your DYK. I am not removing the GA classification as Yellow Dingo is suggesting. Thank you. Regards, Naz | talk | contribs13:52, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the help guys. Sorry, those bare urls were some laziness in recent additions. Hopefully it looks better now. Cake (talk) 14:28, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
Hey man, added allot of stuff to the Northwestern and California sections, thought i would fyi you. Will eventually add something re his nfl days. Rybkovich (talk) 22:28, 30 June 2016 (UTC)
Very neat about his collaboration with Exendine. Just finished beefing up the 1906 Commodores myself. Cake (talk) 12:21, 1 July 2016 (UTC)
Why did you wipe and replace the 1960s and 1980s Gator football articles with redirects to the main UF football article? There's no replacement for all that individual season info and game results that I can see. Am I missing something here? I may, as I haven't been around much. But on the surface, this looks like a really bad idea. What's up? --Zeng8r (talk) 23:27, 10 July 2016 (UTC)
Keeping with this, I am upsetting the spirit of Dirtlawyer and slowly making the decades into individual articles. In the cases of others with decade articles (e. g. Georgia, LSU), I believe I was told to redirect to the main article. The list makes some sense. The History of Florida Gators football is another option. Cake (talk) 02:13, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
I'm honestly not a fan of individual season articles (or the history of Gator football article, for that matter), but if that's the way the project is going, it's vital that all of these splintered-off articles are easy to find and/or navigate to. No matter how good they are, they're useless if nobody ever reads them. Part of that process is carefully creating redirects that send readers to the info they were originally looking for. So if somebody is trying to follow a link to the 1980-89 article, for example, the redirect should send them to the list of seasons so that they can just scroll down the table and click on 1984 (a fine vintage, imo) or whatever. Sending them to the huge main football article is too confusing - look at me, a wiley wikiveteran, thinking for a moment that the decade articles had just been deleted. Zeng8r (talk) 03:26, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
PS Where is Dirtlawyer, anyway???
[(Usually Lizard handles this)=DL has been gone for several months I don't know why but he appeared to have a few issues with computers/and or stuff that he needed to attend to.] Personally, I agreed with his assessment which is why I have slowed my complicity in the campaign (at least creating an allowable stub/start article. In regards to the follow the link, I think the most major oversight (including the absence of schedule tables, and the cfb link when those exist) is the issue of not linking what was meant of seasons to their appropriate articles but I have been trying fix as much as I can [1]UCO2009bluejay (talk) 03:33, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
It seems that way. Hope he's busy instead of disheartened about wikipedia. I would be curious of Zen's opinion on the 1928 article. Cake (talk) 18:04, 11 July 2016 (UTC)
Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.
In the Personnel/Depth Chart section the LHB box should be moved up so that it aligns with the RHB box. I have only limited experience with box charts and don’t know how to do this. Just a suggestion to improve the look of the article.
Thank you very much. Your "edits for flow" are of much help, and you more than other GOCE members somehow keep the edits minor, leaving some tone of the article intact. On the "depth chart" diagram, it would actually seem perfect if I could bump the "row" of QB and RHB over one "unit" to the right. The picture on the single wing article was the idea. I think it is close. I had considered asking folks like @Cbl62: how to do it. One can see what you are going for by thinking the LHB should be up by the RHB. The seven man line and a diamond. That will do strictly speaking for a depth chart, but if it is also to serve as a depiction of Centre's scheme, then I hoped to—as it says, mimic the single wing. Cake (talk) 01:42, 23 July 2016 (UTC)
I see now what you're trying to do picturing the scheme. Thanks, also, for your comments on my edits. My philosophy is to be as unobtrusive as possible, doing only what is necessary to improve an article. I'm glad you appreciate this. Cheers. Twofingered Typist (talk) 19:24, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
History of football positions
The more I think about it, the possibilities for that article are endless. We could start with the New Jersey-Rutgers game (after explaining its origins in rugby and such) and go from there. Then start splitting into eras where appropriate. It should be relatively easy to find sources for the early origins of the game. Lizard (talk) 15:44, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
You have a point. It is probably awfully confusing for one new to the sport how in say the I fullbacks lineup half of the way back and halfbacks line up all the way back. It seems "tailback" is more descriptive of where one lines up, while "halfback" is tied to the person. In other words, yes, a fullback can be a tailback, such as in the short punt and old full-house diamond. Compare these neat articles by Bob Zuppke. It is worth noting how even in the old days a halfback can lineup at tailback, such as in the Heisman shift. Cake (talk) 16:42, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
Maybe just a re-write of the dab page to something like:
Wish I could motivate him to update the Minnesota shift article. He seems our resident midwestern football history expert, and I'm not sure I understand it. Cake (talk) 17:26, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
Question?
Are we supposed to spell out state abbreviations on schedule tables, such as on a Texas Tech article, VanderbiltVandy, Oklahoma, Okie State etc. or is this just someone who is attempting in WP:Good Faith to help but doesn't know WP:CFB consensus? And I'm not saying I am completely opposed to what he is doing. But I like standardization; I'd know what to expect viewing a page. What is consensus on this topic and is some sort of reform in order? @Jweiss11: usually is my go to person on standardization, but since you seem to be the caretaker and promoter of Vanderbilt articles to GA (which I noticed he has edited) I decided to ask here. I don't know of how many team articles here in the conferences would need updating. not to mention all of the expansion we are doing Wikipedia:WikiProject College football/Season articles campaign. I'd like to know before I continue forward creating more articles.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 01:11, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
Full disclosure, I have been making edits of a seemingly similar sort changing "Division II (NCAA)" to NCAA Division II, [2] I'd like to know if I am participating in some sort of overkill in that regard.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 01:11, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
UCO, the standard for the schedule tables is to use the state code, not to spell out the state, as seen in the examples at Template:CFB Schedule Entry and in the overwhelming majority of articles that have these tables. The changes you've been making with regards to the NCAA divisions make sense to me since those articles were renamed in 2015. Your edits bring things in line with the new article names. Although, it would be better to have one simple link to "NCAA Division II", rather than the two links in "NCAADivision II". Jweiss11 (talk) 01:36, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
@Jweiss11: what I have been doing is changing [[Division II (NCAA]] to[[NCAA Division II]] or [[NCAA Division II|Division II]] in the event of an existing NCAA link. I agree that changing[[Division II (NCAA)]] to[[NCAA]] [[NCAA Division II|Division II]] would be ridiculous. I have tended to leave the existing [[NCAA]] or variants thereof alone when I have seen them because I didn't know if those were set up that way on purpose. But in the future I will surely combine them. If I saw Thanks–UCO2009bluejay (talk) 03:36, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
Following Jweiss11, it seems "just someone who is attempting in WP:Good Faith to help but doesn't know WP:CFB consensus". I've used both the abbreviations and the full name probably, depending on what the prior editors did. There are various philosophies on this kind of thing, unfortunately. Dirtlawyer was not fond of "at" in schedules, for instance. On Vanderbilt, 1906 and 1922 are the kind of years to draw my attention, and which one might use as an example. Cake (talk) 03:50, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
Yes I never understood DL's apprehensiveness to "at." Hell, in newspapers, online schedules, ESPN updates and, tv networks list of "the teams in the game's" upcoming schedules during the 4th quarter all use at or @.-UCO2009bluejay (talk) 04:38, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
I think he just disliked the redundancy of an away parameter and a location, but IMO knowing whether it is friendly, hostile or neutral territory with an even quicker glance has its value. If nothing else, I am as used to it as black text. @UCO2009bluejay: seemed to know more of e. g. Grinnell or Washington U.; are there other historically significant teams out west to consider? Cake (talk) 17:32, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
Funny you should ask that. I thought about asking you about something along the lines of a "Southwest championship" in regards to something different than a SWC championship. I saw this when I was looking up material for Charles W. Wantland way back, that the Oklahoman claimed my alma mater won it in the early 20s. However, I questioned how valid this is, not to mention local papers are often biased toward local "accomplishments." However, it doesn't seem totally unlikely considering the South region had one. That being said, I don't think UCO is worth being in this campaign. I thought about Colo C. but they were added. Pitt State has quite the history of NAIA/D2 championships. Not trying to speak for Corky but the rest of our region both respects and hates them. Phillps (OK) (defunct) had a great program early on, and snapped a long Texas winning streak. Bethany (KS) had some success under Bennie Owen, Southwestern (TX)'s year in the SWC IMO should be something notable. If I think of more I'll let you know.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 01:59, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
Independent Southwest champions do exist. It's why I added the Holy Trinity Hilltoppers program. Unforunately, I've never found any others. If I had put together that UCO was Central Oklahoma, I would've asked sooner. Lizard's favored squad of LSU could be the link between the two regions. I offer this as an example. I'm aware of the Pittsburg State Gorillas, and it does look like they are missing some championship season article, but more like Holy Trinity is what I am after. The Phillips Haymakers seem just the thing. Cake (talk) 02:54, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure if there's a formal way to present this to you but, I think you're deserving of displaying a GA icon for Hutson. If the standard is "helped promote" then you definitely meet it, and then some. Lizard (talk) 17:37, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
I appreciate the thought, but I fear such a standard would eventually lead to such clutter for me. If there is one predominant editor (i.e, you) I'd rather him display it. Quite neat that we got to teach a Packer fan about Hutson. The chair route was the only one I could find cited as a Hutson innovation, though it was almost always "he made a bunch of routes, most notably the chair". Also, his "change of pace" seems his most striking feature, mentioned in several interviews from coaches/players. That kind of "leave him open, then have closing speed" of a DB is how he found the edge on offense. He also ran backwards a lot, like Randy Moss would. Cake (talk) 18:00, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
Copying within Wikipedia requires proper attribution
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. It appears that you copied or moved text from Counter trey into Counter run. While you are welcome to re-use Wikipedia's content, here or elsewhere, Wikipedia's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Wikipedia, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. The attribution has been provided for this situation, but if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, please provide attribution for that duplication. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was moved, attribution is not required. — Diannaa (talk) 21:10, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Yep, sorry, I am lazy with edit summaries in general, and that move has been needed for a long time such that I neglected it, but I do have "some copied content" template for just the purpose. Certainly not my intention to avoid attribution. Cake (talk) 23:26, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Why thank you Zen. Only recently noticed your helpful edits to the 1912 Gators article. Wish I could find more on the Stetson game. Cake (talk) 01:21, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
I didn't make it to that contest, so can't help you much there. However, I have noticed while perusing The University of Florida Football Vault that the Gators wore two similar but different uniforms during the 1920s, and the version currently depicted in the football articles is different than either one of them. The early to mid-20s version had stripes that were higher in the middle (like the current wiki depiction), but the stripes were blue against an orange background. Sometime later in the decade, they went with a dark blue uniform top with orange stripes that were pretty much even across the front, not higher in the middle. Also, a modern photo of the old unis show that the stripes may have been hand painted and the colors were vibrant - it was not a sepia world. Just giving you more to do, lol... Zeng8r (talk) 10:47, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
Should have been there. Thank you for this about the old uniforms - more than anything my edits there are with the hope to learn more about them. Were they orange? I'm skeptical of even the 1930/31 jerseys with the numbers on the front being orange like Scott Sillcox's stuff has it, though I used it. You are saying this is orange with blue stripes? I find that hard to believe just visually, though I know the black and white can play tricks on me. The stripes may have been orange, but grey or brown/gold (like the pants) is the most common color for the friction stripes. I am inclined to believe this is pretty close. Indeed the stripes were horizontal rather than highest in the middle by the late 20s, but it's still a friction stripe uniform (and the stripes can vary, see Chic Harley), so I use the same highest-in-the-middle template when doing the various types, especially since if later additions are demanded those are pretty easy. Were the stripes orange by the late 1920s? Just visually it's possible given the threads of say Monk Dorsett, and historically possible given say Illinois' uniforms, but I wasn't aware of the evidence of that. PS I do find it interesting when colored pants entered the fold. Did Don Zimmerman really have blue pants? Cake (talk) 11:32, 26 August 2016 (UTC)
The only issue I could not resolve was this one I found in the Week 8 section. For clarity, you should identify who said this: "This was easily the greatest southern game of the season".
Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.
Thank you very much Miniapolis. The Nashville and McMillin's Centre section read more smoothly now. I am torn between using the image for the 1908 team and the one of the game on the page, or neither or both. Cake (talk) 23:16, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
NAIA football
Do you plan on creating more NAIA football articles? I'm just wondering because we'll need to add a field for the NAIA schools or create another infobox. Simply putting NAIA in the |NCAAdivision= field causes an error, since that is for the NCAA schools only. I'll have Frietjes add a field, just in case you are. Corkythehornetfan (ping me) 00:56, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
If they have some historical significance, say they were once a major program or go back to the very early days of the sport, then sure. I will take note of the league parameter. Cake (talk) 01:31, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions with User:MisterCake. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
