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User talk:MikeLynch/Archive 3
National RTI ForumHi "Mike" and/or "Swaroop". Please keep a watch on National RTI Forum and its talk. I am concerned that the other editor is developing a proprietary interest iGen this article.RobertRosen (talk) 04:17, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Please take a look at this article. Thanks, —Abhishek Talk to me 16:35, 21 February 2011 (UTC) National RTI awardsHi there, I have developed a new article on RTI - National RTI awards. Would it be possible for you to take the time to look at the article, improve it, give feedback or rate it? I am hoping to bring it up to Wikipedia's high standards. Hey there! (Wiki Guides)Hey Mike! I saw your comments at Abhishek's page and liked your thoughts. There are definitely a lot of issues that we need to work on but it's great seeing so many people interested in doing things about it. I know you've poked around the Wiki Guides page a bit but was wondering if you had given any thought into becoming one? I think you'd be a great addition. Jalexander--WMF 22:54, 28 February 2011 (UTC) Sonia GandhiBiographies, contraversies and thier presentation ...Let me know your thoughts
Online Ambassador ProgramPlease take a look at this project page and see if you can be a mentor to one of the many Areas of Study. If you can, please put your name in the "Online Mentor" area of the Area of Study of your choice and then contact the students you will be working with. As the Coordinating Online Ambassador for this project, please let me know if I can be of assistance. Take Care...Neutralhomer • Talk • 04:37, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Check Your Area of StudyHello, I have updated the Project Page you are mentoring on with usernames for all the students in your Area of Study. Please send them a message introducing yourself and let them know you are there to help. As always, please let me know if I can be of assistance. Take Care...Neutralhomer • Talk • 10:16, 3 March 2011 (UTC) S P Jain Center of Managementhi Mike. Have a look at S P Jain Center of Management. I have marked it with an advert tag; but i wanted to add a db-spam tag too, since it IS written like an advertisement, with no helpful information. Should I go ahead? Please tell me your opinion on this; I am quite new to editing. PratikMallya Talk! 19:38, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
Fiji HindiHi Mike. Thanks for your interest in Fiji Hindi. The diference between Standard Hindi and Fiji Hindi is that wheres Standard Hindi was standardised based on the Khariboli ( A western Hindi dialect), Fiji Hindi is koined from Eastern Hindi dialect, mainly Awadhi and Bhojpuri as the as the incluion of many English and Fijian words. What is more important is that it is spoken with an accent very different from Indian Hindi. See the Wikipedia article on Fiji Hindi) In Fiji, everyone speka in Fiji Hindi, although they meay oiginate from UP, Bihar, Madras (and later migrants from Punjab and Gujarat). It is the great uniting factor fo Fiji Indians. Most Fiji Indians can also write to a basic level in most Indian scripts, but if we started to use Devanagri in the Wikipedia then we will alienate Muslims who do not understand it as well as the ex Fiji Indians who now live in Australia, New Zealand Canada and the United States. You are welomr to contribute to h Fiji Hindi Wikipedia. Girmitya (talk) 00:40, 6 March 2011 (UTC) Redundancy issues for Konkani language pageHi there... I'm writing to seek the opinions of seasoned editors. A few days ago, there was an edit war on the Konkani language page, specifically between an editor of Goan descent and an editor of Mangalorean descent. The former didn't appreciate content contributed by the latter and eventually resulted in a massive edit war. The consequence of such an altercation led to the latter creating a whole new page for the non-Goan dialects of Konkani at Kanara (Canara) Konkani. The editor who created this whole new page has contributed significantly and quite productively, I must say. However, I am not convinced whether this is the right way to go.. i.e. having two different pages for essentially the same language. Quite interestingly, I found out that there is already a page for Karnataka Konkani at Karnataka Konkani. This kind of duplication and redundancy is a little unsettling. Your feedback would be appreciated. Signed | Aoghac2z | 06:20, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
About this matter, I can say from my personal experience (a mangalorean konkani speaker who did his undergraduate studies in Goa) that goan konkani is almost a completely different language(there is some similarity, but differences are much more); whereas the konkani spoken by those living outside goa can be said to be different dialects (they use the same words for the same meaning, only the pronunciation is different). In this scenario, goan and the other konkani are same only in name; and thus perhaps different pages is justified. However, a page for different dialects is a waste of wikipedia resources, and may also lead to a lot of confusion; it may be advisable to put them under one page only.PratikMallya Talk! 08:25, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Well, the evolution of the language and the history is not different at all. Konkani speakers in Karnataka came to Karnataka from Goa in the 15th and 16th centuries. At the time of migration, Konkani was already a very developed language, so there are no differences in history or linguistic evolution. If you look at the new page.. you will notice that the history aspect of it is something that should have been included in the main article... there is nothing unique about Kanara Konkani from a historical standpoint that distinguishes it from Goan Konkani. Signed | Aoghac2z | 15:31, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Hello Gentlemen, couldn't help not peeking into your conversation. As has been mentioned by user Aoghac2z, Canara Konkani indeed evolved of Goan Konkani. That is all there is to it. Their paths went separate ways thereafter. Canara Konkani has undergone tremendous variance from Goan Konkani rendering the dialects mutually unintelligible. The comparison is like Kannada and Telugu. It must be stressed that although the Canarese Konkani dialects have not yet been standardised, they vary dramatically in terms of phonetics, syntax and orthography from the newly promulgated Standard Konkani, the Goan Antruz dialect. Although Canara Konkani phonology-syntax-orthography is not standardised, prevalent rules of speech are popularly employed in writing and this rarely undergoes variation. Canara Konkani has been written in the Kannada script and follows different orthographic rules from Goan Konkani which is predominantly written in the Devanagari or Roman Scripts. e.g. the name of the language in the Kannada script is ಕೊಂಕಣಿ (koṅkaṇi - कॊंकणि) and this pronunciation is prevalent in Karnataka and Kerala. In the Devanagari script, the name of the language is कोंकणी (kōṅkaṇī - ಕೋಂಕಣೀ ) and it is pronounced that way in Goa Omniglot. Let me share some examples:
must do Canara करुक ज़ाय ಕರುಕ್ ಜ಼ಾಯ್ Goa करपाक ज़ाय ಕರ್ಪಾಕ್ ಜ಼ಾಯ್
I would also like to share with you that Canara Konkani has a separate ISO code ISO 639-3 kex Canara Konkani Code I suggest that Canara Konkani be a separate page because:
Canara Konkani has a long way to go in terms of standardisation; but that does not deny the fact that it stands out separately. What I mean to arrive at is that Canara Konkani only relies on Goa for patronage. Otherwise, to all intents and purposes, the Canara Konkani dialect family and Goan Konkani dialect family are mutually unintelligible. If, for example, German can have separate articles for Hochdeutsch, Plattdeutsch and Schweizerdeutsch, I am certain Canara Konkani can stand separate on the basis of the same convention too. As far as the Karnataka Konkani article is concerned, it is vociferously guarded by a user from Goa who refuses to allow any contribution other than those in the Standard Antruz Goan Konkani; which is not spoken and is unintelligible to Canaraites (it is unintelligible to the Goans themselves). I have not only tried to contribute to the Konkani Language page but also to the Karnataka Konkani page but in vain. The user and I have had several discussions on our respective user pages. I also requested the said user on several occasions to discuss on the posts before deleting them; that too did not work. The said user perceivably has a Jingoistic agendum; to Hinduise and Goanise the Konkani language and Karnataka Konkani articles. Said user has also censured me on my talk page w.r.t. the Canara Konkani that I write in and holds that only the Goan Antruz dialect is truly Konkani. This is against the conventions followed in Wikipedia which give equal weightage to all dialects of a language. I am not very sure that justice will be done to Canara Konkani if the article is merged into Karnataka Konkani. I don't mind the merging of the articles if it is deemed fit by mutual consent and as long as the neutrality, stability and the fidelity of the article are vouchsafe.Imperium Caelestis 23:38, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
The analysis provided by User:ImperiumCaelestis is indeed correct. However, I'm not sure which source he has picked that up from. I can deem that to be correct based on my own knowledge of my mother tongue. That being said, I have a major concern with the kind of sources User:ImperiumCaelestis is relying on....Sites like Save My Language, Konkani Mitra, Konkani Sansar are sites of private organizations. They are not a linguistic governing body nor an academic body that contributes to the study of Konkani from an academic standpoint. All these three sites seem to constitute self-published content. We have had instances from the past when some people have tried to add content based on sites like SaveMyLanguage.org, only to be questioned about the reliability of such a site by veteran Konkani editors like Deepak D'souza. Anyone can start a site like that, and generate content based on mass user submission. Such sources do not offer any reliability on the orthography rules. Additionally, I want to come to a bigger point here. There is no such dialect or a sub-family type called 'Kanara Konkani'. There are significant differences even between Mangalorean Catholic Konkani and Mangalorean Saraswat Konkani. Mangalorean Catholic Konkani is related to the Bardesi dialect (a northern Goan dialect) than the Mangalorean Saraswat dialect. Mangalorean Saraswat Konkani on the other hand is related to the southern Goan (Saxxti) dialects. Even simple words like 'your' are enough to demonstrate the difference. In Mangalorean Catholic Konkani, 'your' would be 'tuje' which is the same in most Goan dialects. Whereas, in Mangalorean Saraswat Konkani, it is 'tugele', which is what you will hear even in North Kanara (Karwari) dialects of Konkani... even though Karwar Konkani as a whole is heavily influenced by Goan dialects. Mangalorean Catholic Konkani and Mangalorean Saraswat Konkani do not share an immediate common history to be clubbed together. All Konkani dialects share a common history.. but my point is... even though both the aforementioned dialects are spoken in the South Kanara area, their evolution and histories are quite distinct. I would have to beg to differ with the statement "the Canara Konkani dialect family and Goan Konkani dialect family are mutually unintelligible". The dialect of Konkani spoken in Karwar (which also falls under Canara region) is closer to the Goan dialects than the Mangalorean. It would be quite an exaggeration to say they're unintelligible. Speakers of Urdu and Hindi do understand each other even though both speakers are unaware about the intricate details of specific vocabulary used. If Goan and non-Goan dialects of Konkani were 'unintelligible', then linguists would consider them to be separate languages. However, that is NOT the case. Examples of High German and Low German are fine.. because linguistic bodies do recognize their distinct identities. But which linguistic organization recognizes 'Kanara Konkani' to be a distinct linguistic family? Lastly, just because User:Nijgoykar was being unaccommodating, it doesn't warrant moving on to a whole new page. There are ways to deal with jingoism. Signed | Aoghac2z | 00:00, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
Linguists do indeed consider them as separate dialects. It is an accepted fact that ISO-639 deals with languages. I would also like to share with you that Canara Konkani has a separate ISO code. The Konkani language codes are: ISO 639-2 kok (Konkani Macrolanguage) comprising of,
To show you how different the Standard Goan Antruz Konkani is from Canara Konkani, I am sharing an example with you. The following comment was written by User:Nijgoykar on my talk page. I shall translate it into "written as spoken" Canarese Konkani Goan (1) तुमी कोंकणी देवनागरी लिपयेंत चुकीची बरयतात,आनी हो एकेतरेचो अपप्रचार ! (2) प्रत्येक शब्द अर्धकुटो बरवचो न्हय .. (3) चुकीचे रीतीन बरवचो न्हय... (4) हाचे सारको कोंकणिचो अवमान दुसरो ना .. (5)आनी एक गोश्ट नागरी लिपि आता सद्या पोर्ण्या रुपान अस्तित्वात ना,पूण देवनागरी आसा,असो वेगळचार केल्यार आमीं झगडूंकूच उरतले Canarese (1) तुमि कॊंकणि देवनागरि लिपियॆंत च़ुकीचॆं बरयतात, आनि हॆं एक रीतिचॆं अपप्रचार!(2) प्रतियॆकळॆ ऊत्र/ऊतर अपुरॆं बरंवचॆं न्हंय..(3) च़ुकीचॆं रीतियेनॆं बरंवचॆं न्हंय...(4) हाजॆ वारिं/म्हणकॆ कॊंकणिलॆं चॅरॆ/अवमान दुसरॆ ना...(5) आनियॆकळॆ विषय नागरि लिपि आयजिकालि पॊरनॆ रूपांत अस्तित्वांत ना, जाल्यार देवनागरि आसा, अश्शि/अशॆं विंगडाय कॆल्यार आमि झगडुकच़ दॆंवलिं N.B. Canarese Konkani has hereto not been standardised and the above is a written "written as spoken" version and is followed by Canara Saraswats and Canara Catholics alike. Canarese Konkani has a lexicon that is at variance to Goan Konkani and shows tremendous Kannada-Tulu influence. A lot of words, used in Goan Konkani and not used in Canarese Konkani. e.g. to gather in Goan Konkani is एकठाय करुंक whereas in Canara Konkani it is ओट्टु करचॆं, एकठाय is simply not used. This is in addition to the grammatical nuances I stated above.Imperium Caelestis 06:00, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
Stating that Goan Konkani and Konkani spoken in coastal Karnataka are unintelligible is a gross exaggeration. Honestly, your assertion that you do not understand Goan dialects have no relevance to Wikipedia. That is your own personal opinion. If you ask for my personal opinion, I would assure you that I comprehend Goan dialects perfectly... but then again, my personal opinion has no relevance to Wikipedia. Also, I've never heard 'Aan Tuzo' used in Amchigele (Saraswat Konkani). The differences you are pointing out are obvious for any dialect. That's precisely why they're called dialects. If all words were similar, it would not be a dialect, it would simply be one and the same language. Also, I'd like to point out, that making over-the-top judgments (such as the differences between Kanara Konkani and Goan Konkani being as large as Kannada and Telugu) is purely Original Research. I have no knowledge of Kannada nor Telugu, but linguists recognize Telugu to be a separate language. Linguists do not recognize Konkani spoken in coastal Karnataka to be a whole different language. Regarding the ISO codes... those codes itself are quite messed up. Look at ISO 639-3 kex.. it says Kukna mainly... its alternate name is given as Kanara Konkani. Now look at ISO 639-3 gom.. it says Goanese.. but 'Mangalore' is listed as one of its dialect names. There is nothing clear and lucid about those codes. Regarding the link to a Goan catholic (married to a Mangalorean Catholic)'s experience...It is important to understand that those are his personal opinions. They are not of academic nature. Wikipedia does not honor such personal opinions. Lastly, User:ImperiumCaelestis, you are analyzing a whole lot. I'm sorry to say, but a lot of what you've been saying seems to constitute Original Research. We simply need to record facts on Wikipedia... Original Research has no place here on Wiki. I deeply admire your passion for linguistics and the research you've been doing is fantastic (I personally engage in a lot of linguistic research for Konkani).. but Wikipedia is not a medium to publish it. I agree with MikeLynch...there really isn't any sea of change between the various dialects of Konkani. User:ImperiumCaelestis, you should kickstart efforts to merge your new page into the main Konkani article. If you have problems with jingoism from Nijgoykar, let us know and we can handle it. Signed | Aoghac2z | 14:48, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
I firmly opine that the Konkani language page should discuss phonology - orthography - syntax of the Goan Antruz dialect which has recently been promulgated as Standard Konkani and Canara Konkani be mentioned as one of the dialects and the Canara Konkani/Karnataka Konkani article be linked to it. Merging the two pages will make one gargantuan article. I agree to Yes Michael?'s proposition that the pages be kept separate. I am, however, for merging Karnataka Konkani and Canara Konkani.Imperium Caelestis 16:44, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
Signed | Aoghac2z | 17:05, 5 March 2011 (UTC) To the point of being pedantic; I reiterate that the Karnataka Konkani Sahitya Academy and the Kerala Konkani Academy have not standardised Konkani in the concerned states and no available map shows the Konkani speaking areas in Karnataka and Kerala. The base file of the map was taken from [5] and the rendition was from the Census of India, District Census Handbook. You could say it is procedurally incorrect, but original research is not a phrase you should ascribe to it.Imperium Caelestis 09:27, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
My ProposalWait a minute guys. As the other editor (involved in the 'edit war'), is probably busy in real life, I am asking you guys. Keep in mind one major point. You guys are native to that region, and know a lot about the intricacies of the language. But the rest of the world does not know it. When they search for Konkani Language, they should be directed to one single page, rather than getting confused by two different pages. What you see is not what the other people see. Let me be very clear on my proposal. My proposal is that there should be only one page for Konkani. Period. Now, if the differences between dialects are too much, then a separate article may be made, which can be titled Differences between Canara and Goan Konkani. Do you agree with this? Yes Michael? •Talk 18:02, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
I have just posted a talkback on his page that will direct him to your page. My experience with Nijgoykar tells me that he normally accesses Wikipedia in the evenings. Imperium Caelestis 09:40, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Moving The whole conversation to the MAIN Konkani language article @ Konkani language. Please contribute there. Signed | Aoghac2z | 21:51, 9 March 2011 (UTC) HELPCan you tell me how can we modify the user page {i.e. adding tabs}. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vibhijain (talk • contribs) 13:26, 12 March 2011 (UTC) THANKSTHANKS FOR YOUR HELP — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vibhijain (talk • contribs) 16:01, 12 March 2011 (UTC) Hi Mike!Hi Mike, my name is Laura and I am part of the Wikimedia Public Policy Initiative on Grassroots Lobbying. I'm happy to have you as our mentor and begin working on our project! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laurnicole17 (talk • contribs) 04:40, 13 March 2011 (UTC) Also, if I could email you what we have done so far as with begining to create our page that would be great. Seems silly but I'm not quite sure where to locate your email? Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laurnicole17 (talk • contribs) 04:53, 13 March 2011 (UTC) SpringdalesHi, Thanks for your earlier help. I think that the wiki page for Springdales School is written like a Advertisment. hen I edited it, I got a message. It as like this: Welcome to Wikipedia. Although everyone is welcome to contribute to Wikipedia, at least one of your recent edits, such as the one you made to Springdales School, did not appear to be constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and read the welcome page to learn more about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. Thank you! -- 43?9enter (talk) 07:06, 13 March 2011 (UTC) Can you please explain! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vibhijain (talk • contribs) 11:22, 13 March 2011 (UTC) NO, NO! This was the earlier content. When I edited it, I got a message that my article needs to be wikified and your content has to be reverted. The text which you read was the earlier content which I edited but still It was not acceptable instead it matched with Wikipedia Standards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vibhijain (talk • contribs) 12:18, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
sorry for disturbing you again. I want to request a new logo for Wikipedia Hindi http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_logos because the current logo contains a word which is basically a Urdu word. I want to know which type of licence i need to choose in commons to protect the logo created by me and how can i Ask for switch to be done by a developer on bugzilla? And this time i will not forget to sign. --Vaibhav Jain 12:47, 13 March 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vibhijain (talk • contribs)
But i signed this time. Ok, lets leave it. Thanks for your continuous help — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vibhijain (talk • contribs) 13:00, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
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