User talk:Markussep/Archive 6

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Autoreviewer

Hi Markussep, I just read one of your articles at newpage patrol, and was surprised to see that an editor who has contributed quite so many articles as you over such a long period hadn't already been approved as an wp:Autoreviewer. So I've taken the liberty of rectifying that. ϢereSpielChequers 00:30, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Catalan stuff

Thanks for getting stuck in and rolling back a lot of those changes. I and others were probably spending too much time trying to reason with the editor, and politely point out in some detail where he was going wrong, but pretty much 90% of their changes were just plain wrong in terms of common English names, and should have just been reverted asap either way. I guess I was too worried about sparking some kind of pointless edit war, and also optimistically hoped that the editor was at least acting in good faith. I didn't notice the Ibiza switch at first, but as you suggested, that one was the real giveaway that we were dealing with something that was really quite off-beam. They also made several equally odd but more subtle changes to the content of wine articles, which I'll try to work through this morning, as my contribution to the clean up.--Nickhh (talk) 11:21, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Infobox: Canigó in Catalonia

Hi Markussep, including Catalonia (or Northern Catalonia for that matter) in the infobox follows a principle of coherence with regards to UK peaks. Please have a look at my comment to Deibid: User_talk:Deibid#Canig.C3.B3

Therefore, should we remove a reference to Catalonia in the Canigó's infobox, then I'm afraid we'll have to do likewise with Ben Nevis, Snowdon et alter, and replace every reference to England, Scotland, or Wales to a common reference to the United Kigdom.

Double standards should not be allowed.

Andreas Balart (talk) 17:29, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

the comparison with the UK, Scotland etc. doesn't fit, since there isn't another Scotland somewhere
God Almighty! And how many Catalonias you see around? What a response, for God's sake! Hope you didn't suffer any headstroke after writing such a platitude.
I think the comparison with Northern Ireland is a bit more appropriate
OK. Then, if Northern Ireland is listed as a "country", Catalonia should be listed as... (please, be so kind so as to complete the sentence)
even though regions like Languedoc-Roussillon or Pyrénées-Orientales don't enjoy the same degree of autonomy as Northern Ireland or (Spanish) Catalonia.
This is not about politics, but geographical location. "Degree of autonomy" does not make peaks any less or any more "peaky".
In the infobox for Slieve Donard, the highest hill in Northern Ireland, its location is gives as County Down, Northern Ireland.
Then, brother, you've gone beyond my points: if Slieve Donard is located in County Down, Northern Ireland, and not in County Down, United Kingdom, which is the sort of you taxonomy you seem to favour, Canigó should be located in County Vallespir, Northern Catalonia.
But then I don't want to go as far as you're going. I'm actually settling for Northern Catalonia, France
Doesn't take a genius to get it. It's a compromise, you see?
Most English speakers think of Catalonia as the autonomous region around Barcelona, stating that Canigou is in Catalonia would be confusing
Alas, that's the reason why people read enciclopaedias, brother—to widen their knowledge. Just portraying a set of idées reçues doesn't fit into the Wikipedia's spirit. If readers come to the Canigó's entry with the pressumption that it is a French mountain and leave it with the information that, on top of being French it is also Catalan, then the experience will have been worth its while.

Since you didn't substantiate your points, I revert Canigó's location as in Nothern Catalonia, France.

Andreas Balart (talk) 18:17, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

German maps and naming

Hi Markussep, It's good to see that we now have a sensible naming approach for rivers! Thank you for adding local maps to some of the German town and village articles I have been working on. In a couple of templates I see you have changed borough or municipality to town. My original logic was to try and distinguish between the two uses of the word Stadt: 1) when it means the town only, and 2) when it means the administrative area containing the town plus nearby villages (Ortsteile). If we translate both as town, we lose the distinction. So I tend to use "town" for 1) and "borough" for 2), e.g. Bergen. It sounds odd in English to say "villages within the town of Bergen", whereas "villages within the borough of Bergen" makes more sense IMHO because borough is usually an administrative concept. Of course, if a Stadt is responsible for a Kreis, e.g. Celle and Celle district then it's easy we talk about the "towns and villages" within the "district". --Bermicourt (talk) 20:08, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Hi Bermicourt, I changed your "boroughs" and I think also some "parishes" because Wikipedia doesn't use those terms for places in Germany. The standard translation for "Gemeinde" is "municipality", for "Stadt" it's "town", or "city" for towns with over 100,000 inhabitants. See also Wikipedia:WikiProject Germany/Conventions#Administrative units. I don't think we have satisfactory translations for "Ortsteil" and "Stadtteil" yet. Markussep Talk 20:30, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
Yes I have tried to follow the convention, but having translated lots of town, village and hamlet articles, I have found it has some shortcomings. Like all translation there is no perfect answer, but in general in English we have names for physical settlements - e.g. city, town, village, hamlet - and names for administrative units - province, county, district, municipality, township and parish. In Germany we need to be able to sort out e.g. Kreis Celle, which contains Stadt Celle which consists of 17 divisions: several urban ones like Westercelle and several separate villages like Scheuen some km to the north. Within Kreis Celle are also other towns, like Bergen which is a Stadt and villages like Unterlüß which is not a Stadt. Stadt Bergen is responsible for itself (the "town" of Bergen) and 11 other villages like Sülze. In turn, Sülze is responsible for an area which includes itself and two small villages or hamlets: Waldhof and Twießelhop. I feel the convention needs extending something like this:
  • Kreis Celle - Celle "district" (or "county" would free the word "district" for other uses)
  • Stadt Celle - 1) the "town" of Celle (only the main town)
  • Stadt Celle - 2) the "borough" of Celle = the whole area with all the villages and town "districts" or "suburbs" or "municipalities"
  • Stadt Bergen - 1) the "town" of Bergen (only the main town)
  • Stadt Bergen- 2) the "borough" of Bergen = the whole area with all the villages
  • Ortschaft or Gemeinde Sülze - "parish" of Sülze with its villages/hamlets; "municipality" also works, but "parish" is better because it is always a small area like a village
  • Dorf Sülze - village of Sülze
Of course these are just my initial thoughts; it needs more work. Perhaps I should come up with a better version and we can discuss it on the Project talk page. Gruß. --Bermicourt (talk) 20:59, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
I've seen German wikipedia use "Kernstadt" for a town without its outlying villages and suburbs (that are part of the same town/municipality). A good translation for that? Maybe "central town" or "town proper". For a municipality it's easier, we can use "village" for "Ortsteil" and "Dorf". There are some vague areas, for instance would you call a village that is part of a town (but not physically integrated) a quarter? "borough" is used for the "Bezirke" of Berlin, the "Ortsamtsbereiche" of Dresden, the "Stadtbezirke" of Munich, I think that's OK. "county" is confusing because it's also (and in Germany primarily) the territory of a count. "parish" is also confusing because that's associated with churches, "Pfarrei" in German. There are also (church) parishes in big cities. Markussep Talk 12:48, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

You may be interested in ....

Hoi Markussep,

Talk:White_Carpathians--Nmate (talk) 08:25, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Verbandsgemeinden

Thanks. Yes, I shall continue. The monthlong hiatus has been due to China's yearly madness known as Spring Festival. I spent most of it in India, though, but I arrived "home" yesterday. A tweak of my "list of bits" will take care of the change for all future articles, but it will be a bit of a chore for all existing articles. Can we get a bot to do it? It would only have to search for the text "– a municipality belonging to a Verbandsgemeinde, a kind of collective municipality found only in this state –" and remove the bit that I've stricken out there. Unfortunately I know nothing about bots. Perhaps someone else can sort that one out. Kelisi (talk) 12:16, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

I've checked the municipalities in Alzey-Worms and Bad Dürkheim (halfway, I think you came up to Forst) districts because I added maps to them, and removed the "found only in this state" part. Since I'm going to check all municipalities for maps anyway, I can do it, no big deal. Did you expand articles in other districts? Markussep Talk 12:24, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Yes, I also did Westerwaldkreis some time ago, and I seem to remember it contained 209 articles. Are you sure it's "no big deal"? Kelisi (talk) 16:56, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Hmmmm, 209 is a bit more ;-) I'll see what I can do with AWB. Markussep Talk 17:00, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
Done! Markussep Talk 18:14, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
And done Mainz-Bingen too. Markussep Talk 17:38, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox Town DE

Template:Infobox Town DE has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:14, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Infobox Town GR

Template:Infobox Town GR has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Thank you. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 01:15, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

89,247 edits

I have to say, I'm impressed. Congratulations. kedadial 00:23, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

Your Cities of Germany info

Hello! I was pleased to read the wiki on Westerburg, DE today. I have never been to Germany, but have Family History and ancestors from there originally. TWO things you mentioned in your Wiki contributions to this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westerburg made me sit up and take special notice. You mentioned "The oldest census, from 1540, shows 124 assessable inhabitants. Eighty-six households are witnessed in 1607, and 39 in 1656".... I had an Ancestor, Siegfried Baumann of Westerburg, Dillkreis, Hessen who was born there circa 1638 and had one child there by Unknown spouse, in 18 Jan 1662/63, Anna Elisabetha Bauman. (I know this from many years researching with the LDS (Mormon) microfilm copies of the old Evangelische Kirche Taufen registers, and from colaberation with German born cousin) FYI, you have probably guessed, I live in America. I started researching Family History when I was 10. My paternal grandmother loved books, owned a used book shop at one time, and fostered my interests in Genealogy, History, and other subjects which I still love 50 years later. To return to main subject, I would like to know if you can point me in some direction where I could see or request copies or even if I must travel to a German Archives site, gather more info or if you have some in your posession on the German Cities of Westerburg and Herborn? You see, this Siegfried Bauman of Westerburg, remarried to a Elisabeth Neid of Herborn in 1666, the daughter of Johannes Neid of Herborn. They had a son they named Johann Siegfried Christian Bauman on 25 Nov. 1666 in Westerburg, Dillkreis, Hessen. This Johann Siegfried Christian Bauman lived in Herborn, where his mother remarried after his father, Siegfried, died (before 1691). His occupation was "Pedellus bei der Schule" meaning Herborn Hoche Schule, and in a book about the workers, teachers, and supporters of Herborn School, Elisabeth Neid Baumann was a "pedigogum?" J.S. Christian Baumann married in Herborn and the family of my Father's fathers fathers back there went to the Herborn School and lived in Herborn until the Herzog der Zweibrucken sent for one, Andreas Bauman, b. 1705 Herborn, to come be Stadtschulheisen Cusel in Rhineland-Falz (Palatinate) where eventually my Great Grandfather emigrated from to America in the 1850's. As you can see, I have difficulty making BRIEF comments or questions!  ;-)) I have a personal interest in Town Census records, if they named individuals or heads of households, did not simply count heads or taxable Burgers. You also mentioned a great deal about Craft Guilds, their dates in Westerburg, and I especially was interested to read your(?) stating: "Westerburg seems much more to have been a craft centre for the surrounding region in which even such rare crafts as arrowsmithing and crossbow making were settled. Also showing this are the many traders’ markets held in the town. Several guilds formed in this comparatively small town: in 1581 the bakers’ guild, which joined with the brewers’ guild in 1657, in 1532 the woolweavers’ and clothmakers’ guild (dissolved in 1710), in 1574 the tanners’ and shoemakers’ guild, in 1611 the linen weavers’ guild, and by 1658 also the tailors’ and merchants’. The woolweavers are known to have had their own hall, "Westerburger Hall" in Frankfurt am Main in 1605." Because I am interested in the history of the Guilds. I am particularly interested in learning history of any "Buchdrucker" guilds with relations to Herborn of the 1600's and Frankfurt a.M. One worker at the Herborn School in 1592 was a "Albrecht Bauman Buchdrucker of Nordheim am Main" Buchdrucker seems to have been a Bauman family profession in the 16th & 17th century and there are many other families of Buchdruckers in the Church registers of Frankfurt which I am researching. In fact, after Siegfried Bauman of Westerburg died, his wife remarried a Hartenrodt who was a buchdrucker and who taught her son J.S. Christian Bauman the profession, according to my German Bauman cousin and coresearcher of the Bauman Family of Westerburg/Herborn/Cusel. Thank you for taking some of your time to read my post. I apollogize to you and All if I posted this and it is not appropriate here. I am new to this here. Cheers, BaumGeoYak 08:27, 18 March 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by BaumGeoYak (talk • contribs)

Romanian places names

Hi Markussep,

Sorry for this but I have to notice you that a lot of articles about Romanian places have Hungarian names in Infoboxes. The problem is that some Websites use data from Infoboxes and so misinform. For example in Wikimapia some towns and villages have the name written in this shape RomanianName-HungarianName as it would be a single name (because Romania have a lot of places composed by two Romanian names separated by "-", eg. Cluj-Napoca).

I founded this problem in the article about Sărmaşu which is a town in Transylvania, Romania. User User:Rokarudi (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs) insist to add the Hungarian name in Infobox and not just for this article. He or she have a lot of articles in which added the name of places in Hungarian.

I think that it is fine to write the name in other language in brackets in the first paragraph of the article as in the Romanian Version of the article, but nothing more.

In Romania everywhere is used Romanian name for all places.

I contact you because I saw that you have experience with this problem.

Please read the discussion of the article and the text from this link Wikipedia:Editor_assistance/Requests#towns_and_villages_names.

Somme villages

I've noticed you making edits to quite a few of these over the last couple of days, but you're not leaving an edit summary, which arouses my vandalism radar. OK, you're not a vandal, but would you please try to remember to leave an edit summary so that the rest of us have an idea of what is going on? Mjroots (talk) 09:23, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Your stubs

Funny how many stubs I've come across of yours today!! Whether its Austria, Germany or Greece its a shame more people aren't helping expand them.. Nea Alikarnassos and Dimbach, Austria have been expanded today anyway. See Archanes. Can you please add a image_map parameter to the Greek dimos template so the municpal maps can be displayed inside the infobox? Dr. Blofeld White cat 00:05, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Sure, I'll give the regional maps a try. I know there are maps for most of the municipalities on Crete, and also for the Chalkidiki prefecture. Probably you'll find many more on Greek wikipedia, I hope they put them all in commons. Markussep Talk 01:02, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
I just added an optional prefecture map. They're available for probably all municipalities in Greece, see commons. For the map to show you need to add the field "image_map". Just add the file name, the image is automatically formatted. The standard caption is "Location within the prefecture". If you want something else (e.g. for places other than municipalities), use the "map_caption" field. Don't leave a blank "map_caption" field, because there's no caption then. See Archanes and Acharnes for examples. Maybe you or ElGreco want to modify the format, that's OK with me. I like the "show"/"hide" toggle, that keeps the infobox within a reasonable size. Markussep Talk 10:08, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

I like it. I think that looks good and saves bloating the infobox. Thanks. Dr. Blofeld White cat 18:50, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

Excellent work adding those regional maps for France. Super, I see you beat me too it. You missed Vienne and Morbihan though. Dr. Blofeld White cat 12:21, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

What's wrong with Vienne and Morbihan? Plasticspork is running a script now to add coordinates (longitude and latitude fields) from French wikipedia, still some 1600 articles to go. We don't have maps for half of the regions yet, we have to wait until the guys at French wikipedia make new ones (they are working on it, they added Haute-Normandie two weeks ago). Markussep Talk 16:07, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Not in use. Or is it server lag? Dr. Blofeld White cat 23:00, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Vienne is not a region, it's a department that's part of the region Poitou-Charentes (that has a map). Markussep Talk 09:02, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Would you be interested in helping sort out the infoboxes for Spain. They are in a huge mess. I think a template should be created and the infoboxes copied directly from Spanish wikipedia. Most of the current ones need replacing and there are a large number without infoboxes at all. I was sure PLastikspork created a template for copying but I don't know what happened to it and I don't think it worked. Can you create a Spanish municipality infobox that enables you to copy the infobox directly from spanish wikipedia? If so then I can get on with sorting them out and at a later date they can be converted into english by a bot. Dr. Blofeld White cat 10:13, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, no. I have enough to do for Germany, France, Austria and Greece already. Markussep Talk 10:42, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

I understand. Perhaps I can organize Kotbot to do that particular task... Infobox Hohenems like beautiful now... Big improvement, thanks. Dr. Blofeld White cat 14:31, 24 March 2010 (UTC) I've begun adding maps/photos to the Bludenz district infoboxes. Did you say there was some kind of tick table like with the french communes to tick off a district once it has been attended to? Dr. Blofeld White cat 15:29, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Austria/Cities, with subpages for all states. BTW, I'll change the automatic district map caption (this one was simple so I could keep track of the "if" loops) so you don't have add them manually. Markussep Talk 15:34, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

OK cool. I've nearly done Vorarlberg state. I've created a merged Template:Municipalities in Vorarlberg. I think its small size means they can quite easily be in the same template, hell if we have templates the size of the some of the french commune states this size is tiny anyway! I think its best to organize by state and help consolidate it. It just seems like less articles to have to attend to that way... Dr. Blofeld White cat 19:19, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Vorarlberg is the smallest state, I think the navbars would get too big for the others. Markussep Talk 19:31, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

We'll see how it goes. I've finished Vorarlberg. Just started on Deutsch Jahrndorf for Burgenland. Some problems. There is no district map available in the commons, there is one on German wiki but they haven't been uploaded. Also for Burgenland the template needs programming or if the town is situated beyond a certain eastern point the place marker name needs to be left aligned. I believe there is a similar set up for France so those really eastern towns have automatic left align place markers. What shall we do about the Burgenland maps? Leave them till last?

I'll make a start on Tyrol now, the maps seem uploaded for those. The Burgenland maps will need uploading to the commons sometime though...... Dr. Blofeld White cat 20:26, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Labels to the left works, I picked 15 degrees longitude as the limit. About Burgenland, I have no experience with mass uploading to commons, others probably have. This server breakdown is really annoying... Markussep Talk 20:44, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

See Perpignan. Can you add the blue colour to the head title like the Austria template and it will look better I think. I think a lot of the blue inner headers were redundant. Have a play around with it with a resign. If you disapprove revert. Some things will need tweaking I'd imagine. Dr. Blofeld White cat 21:29, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Much better!! Dr. Blofeld White cat 17:12, 26 March 2010 (UTC) I added a photo to Xirocourt. However, it cancels out th coat of arms. Can you sort the template so it has parmaters for the coat of arms seperate from image. Image should be for photographs.. Dr. Blofeld White cat 13:09, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Also. I think we need an infobox for the districts of Paris see Montparnasse etc. I thought we already had one? Something like thr infobox for 15th arrondissement of Paris. How about a Template:Infobox French quartier for neighborhoods of the cities? Dr. Blofeld White cat 13:13, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
I think the coat of arms in the field "image coat of arms" is only displayed when there's a flag as well. That's not very practical, I guess we should decide whether we want to show the flags at all. It shouldn't be too difficult to display either the flag or the coat of arms if only one of them is available, and both if both are there. But first I want to add an automatic region and department detector, based on the INSEE code. Markussep Talk 15:33, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

I was wondering if you could also make a proposal on the talk page of Template:Infobox Swiss town. Just some tweaks. See Oberschrot for example. I'd propose moving the map to the top and creating the show map option like in the Austrian and Greek infoboxes. I think it looks tidier. Also the coat of arms is strangely aligned. The top where the name is could also use a splash of colour. Perhaps make it look more like the way the Austrian ones currently are? Dr. Blofeld White cat 16:41, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Please, there's only 24 hours in a day. Can't you find someone else for that? Markussep Talk 16:48, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

Um, I've proposed something. It took me 2 minutes, not 24 hours. And if I could edit the darn thing I'd fix it in two minutes flat myself. Dr. Blofeld White cat 16:51, 27 March 2010 (UTC)

French population tables

Is there a way to make Démographie have multiple rows? If not, what table can we use for communes that have populations going way back? Ksnow (talk) 14:02, 24 March 2010 (UTC)Ksnow

I don't know one simple solution. French wikipedia has a template for it (I saw it in the fr:Lille article), fr:Modèle:Démographie2. It looks rather complicated, I'm not sure whether it will work in English wikipedia. You can do it like it was done at Demographics of Bratislava, but it's difficult to add a year. Using {{multicol}}, you can list two or more tables next to each other. Or make a graph of it (see also the French article about Lille, that will work in English wikipedia), too large tables are not very inviting. Markussep Talk 14:31, 24 March 2010 (UTC)

Hungarian names in Romania

Hello

I would like to ask your opinion about the format that should be used for the localities from Romania with an important Hungarian population

From the Romanian Constitution: http://www.cdep.ro/pls/dic/site.page?den=act2_2&par1=1#t1c0s0a13 "In Romania, the official language is Romanian". Also, According to Local Public Administration Bill (promulgated in 2001): "Where over 20 of the population is of an ethnic minority, all documents of a legal character will be published in the ethnic minorities' mother tongue.".

My opinion is that according to wiki rules Hungarian names should be listed before for example German names, but still in parantheses, in Italics: Romanian_Name (Hungarian: Hungarian_Name, German: German_Name)

We just want to respect the standard naming policy WP:PLACE, Foreign language names and first sentence usage rule


I saw you were involved in a similar discussion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Rokarudi#Hungarian_names and I think you could help

Can you please express your opinion here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Hungarian_names_of_Romanian_places or here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Rokarudi#Hungarian_names_2

Thanks in advance for your answer and sorry if it wasn't a good idea to post this message here (Umumu (talk) 06:30, 27 March 2010 (UTC))

Hungarian names for Romanian places

Dear Markussep,

As you may noticed, I like to add Hungarian placenames to articles. The naming practice, off course, can give rise to editing conflicts, so I have always tried to solve following compromise and accepting advice.

As you may know, after the Odorhei discussion ([1]) the status quo for Transylvanian places was that the artice name is Romanian, if Hungarian population <20%, in the infobox both Romanian and Hungarian names should be indicated, and also in the lead both Romanian and Hungarian names should be bolded.

About two weeks ago, an editor called User: Iadrian yu supported by absolutely new editors User:Dicocodino, User:Umumu, User:Amon Koth (the latter 3 with zero or close to zero edits) started a campaign against this situation referring to general naming policies.

They were looking for discuss resolution forums trying to find a favourable opinion for them ie. deleting bolded Hungarian names. You and User:Jezhotwells gave them a negative opinion at here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:S%C4%83rma%C5%9Fu (Nagysármás)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Editor_assistance/Requests/Archive_73 (Nagysármás)

Then, on 23rd, March User: Iadrian yu started to delete bolded Hungarian names from every settlement of Harghita, Covasna and Mures country making masses of deletes.

Finally, they found an admin User:Mjroots who decided in their favor as a result of a dispute in which a very few people took place (most of them zero a close to zero edits), and neither you nor User:Jezhotwells were notified although I asked the admin to do so. (ruling here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/IncidentArchive605)

What do you think about it? How the Odorhei-compromise which worked for 3 years can be overthrown like this. Is this the way of consensus building and dispute resolution?

I always respected your opinion, and I think in this case Myroots made a very big mistake, but, I seem unable to explain the situation it to him as an interested party. I am very dissapointed at how things work now. Kind regards: User:Rokarudi--Rokarudi 17:16, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Hi Rokarudi, I haven't replied lately because frankly I'm becoming a bit tired of all these naming disputes. I've looked at a few of Iadrian yu's edits, and actually I don't see the big problem. He removed the bolded Hungarian name, but the Hungarian name is still in the lead of the article, and I think in most cases he left the Hungarian name in the infobox. He is right, the rules say nothing about which names should be bolded in articles. I'm not familiar with the details of the Odorheiu discussion, as far as I remember the Slovakia-Hungary discussion wasn't about bolded names either. Markussep Talk 17:44, 30 March 2010 (UTC)


Rokarudi, it is time for you to respect the wiki rules and to understand the difference between Hungarian and English wikipedia. There are clear rules that address this matter and by you, we should use a special rule (for no reason than nostalgic ones, since i can`t see any other reason of your disruptive edits on many Romania related articles ignoring a whole set of rules), just for Romania. I stumbled on some of your edits that clearly shows some unusual problems with Romania`s related articles, i don`t know what to think. It would be nice for you to start to respect the WP:PLACE and the wiki rules that exist and are crystal clear regarding the naming policy of places,rivers and counties in Romania. I hope that it is not a problem for my comment here, if there is, i will erase it. Best wishes. iadrian (talk) 17:53, 30 March 2010 (UTC)

Thanks

Hello, Markussep. Thank you for the caution on my Japanese talk page. I've reply on his commons page. Thank you. Regards. --QBay (talk) 16:09, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

French maps

Hi. I know you said you preferred the regional maps. But what would you say to using a department maps which also shows arrondisement divisions like the one on the right? Wouldn't it be better to feature a department map if it exists? Dr. Blofeld White cat 22:20, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

I replied on Template talk:Infobox French commune. Markussep Talk 14:20, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Replied. Dr. Blofeld White cat 15:50, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Cologne revisionism

You are invited to tell the false story about the second world war to- Anna Schwarzberg (30 yo) murdered in Auschwitz, Wolf Dereczynski (4 yo) murdered in Vilnius, Dr. Jur. Leopold Z. oberleutnant in the Austrian army (80+ yo) murdered in Theresienstadt and many other members of my family (and tell them by the way also about your "facts" and the peaceful Klagemauer). Have a nice day. --Olz2110 (talk) 11:36, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

infobox greek dimos

It would be better not to include a limit for the width of the picture. The picture for example at Athens is narrow and it looks ugly and small with the limit. There are no, after all, great problems with other articles, I think. Dimboukas (talk) 11:17, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

What I tried to do is limit the size of vertical pictures, they get huge when the standard width is 270px or 240px. Actually, I would prefer a horizontal skyline picture for Athens, I think we had a nice one of the Acropolis some years ago. Infoboxes shouldn't get too long I think. What we can do is add a field "image_size", so you can set the width manually in cases like this. Markussep Talk 15:03, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Could you please help?

I think that your expertise with Geography is needed here regarding the merge. --sulmues talk contributions 00:33, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Algés River - Photo

Thanks, that's what I will do. Still his photo is not in the Wikimedia Commons, otherwise mine had not been acepted with the same name.

JoniFili (talk) 11:05, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Never the less, it's the "wrong" pic that show up.
JoniFili (talk) 11:17, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
Just updated a new photo, and its fine. In reality, the article shoud be call Algés Creek, rather than river. In fact in Portugues is a "ribeiro/a" and not a river.
Best, JoniFili (talk) 11:40, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

The gk/ng question

Hello! Transliteration of Greek names is a big and controversial mess, unfortunately. There is no one system that is used throughout, for neither Ancient, Medieval/Byzantine or Modern Greek names. In modern Greek, the general guideline has been to follow the phonetic value, hence for instance Eleftherios instead of Eleutherios. "gk" is a very problematic case, since this cluster is very much un-pronounceable. "ng" on the other hand is being used for this cluster in almost all cases for Ancient Greek and Byzantine names ("nk" is an alternative in some cases), as well as for modern names. For Langadas in particular this is of some importance, since the name is medieval, and is to be found with the "ng" form in much of the relevant historical bibliography. Best regards, Constantine ✍ 13:26, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

Papër

Hello!

We are a group of Peace Corps volunteers currently living in Paper, Albania. We are trying to increase the visibility of Paper, in part through the creating of a Wikipedia page. We were pleasantly surprised to discover that a Wikipedia page for Paper already existed. We have edited the page slightly and may do some more in the future. We would like to add an image to this page as well, but as we are new to Wikipedia we are unable to do so. We saw that you were the original author of the existing page and wondered if you would be able to upload a picture of Paper that we could send to you. Let us know what you think, or if you have any other advice.

Thank you,

Kyle and Sarah in Albania

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pap%C3%ABr

Tsqaltubo

Sorry for my misunderstanding. Geagea (talk) 00:32, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Admin?

By the way, have you ever thought about becoming an admin? You seem to be knowledgeable enough to be able to edit these templates! Of course, having someone else check is always a good thing as well:) Ping me if you are interested and I could potentially nominate you (after a standard check for obvious dark secrets in your past). Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:51, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

I think he shares my views on adminship, which might explain why he is so experienced and not an admin... Dr. Blofeld White cat 09:34, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Sometimes I wish I was an admin, for instance when I want to move an article to a correct spelling, and I can't, and I don't think it's important enough to go through the WP:RM procedure. Or when I want to try something in a protected article or template. Then again, I suppose that's close to abusing admin privileges. The main reason I didn't apply for adminship before is that I'm afraid it will consume a lot of my time. I don't want to be a very active admin, if I become one. If that's OK, why not. I would like to know more about bots, I think that could save me a lot of time. Markussep Talk 15:12, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Mm m that's the only time I wish I had admin tools. It is often quite frustrating not to be able to access templates and move certain pages... Dr. Blofeld White cat 21:38, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

File:Peloponnese relief map-blank.svg

Hi. Can you programme the Greek Dimos template to features towns on this map? Dr. Blofeld White cat 09:34, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Towns in the Peloponnese have two maps in the infobox now: one of Greece, and one of their prefecture, showing the outline of the municipality. This is a nice map, but I don't think it adds much value. Markussep Talk 15:02, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Dresden

Your population update needs a source! --Kgfleischmann (talk) 19:57, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

It's on its way, when my editprotected request for {{Infobox German location}} is granted, the ref will show up. The source is the Statistische Landesamt Sachsen. Markussep Talk 20:00, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

German location infobox

Hi Markussep. I see you are doing sterling work amending lots of infoboxes. Would it be helpful to amend the infobox itself so it automatically recognised the German parameters and displayed them in English? That would save you/us a lot of work maybe. --Bermicourt (talk) 17:49, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Do you mean the infoboxes you copied from de:, and that were originally "Infobox Ortsteil einer Gemeinde"? I suppose we could make a customized wrapper for those cases, just like e.g. {{Infobox Province Spain}} is a wrapper for {{Infobox settlement}}. Markussep Talk 19:56, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Or make one that could be substituted, and automatically translates the parameters? Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:08, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Thanks as ever for your 'tidying-up'. I'm getting there slowly! I can't get a map caption to display at Leybuchtpolder and Norddeich (Norden). Do you know how to do this? --Bermicourt (talk) 11:08, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Brittany

Just came across Plomelin. Dead map. Can you sort this problem? The map you want I presume is File:Bretagne region location map.svg. Dr. Blofeld White cat 10:55, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Someone's been messing with the template {{Location map France Bretagne}}, I fixed it, and will watch it from now on. You're not User:Moonraker2, are you? Markussep Talk 11:11, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Nope, I don't have that level of interest in France! Incidentally I noticed that editor's work for the first time just a few hours ago, Funny, as Moonraker was shot in France and of course Hugo Drax's chateau was supposed to have been bought from there. Another funny thing is that it was actually Drax's beautiful piano playing in Moonraker that originally get me hooked on Chopin!! Dr. Blofeld White cat 12:04, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

You are now a Reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a two-month trial at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).

Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under flagged protection. Flagged protection is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial.

When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.

If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles (talk) 03:11, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

Infobox Ortsteil einer Gemeinde

Hi Markussep. I have to confess I'm not sure what you meant. What I do is to copy the German infobox across and just amend the fields that don't seem to work. This is useful because it saves time manually changing stuff. However if this is wrong or there is a better way I'm interested. What I usually try to avoid is having to manually convert all the field names and data into the en.wiki equivalent because that is repetitive, time-consuming work. Some of my other 'German' infoboxes automatically translate the fieldnames and, in some cases, the data too. Gruß. --Bermicourt (talk) 18:58, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

P.S. See "Reviewer" above - I seem to be a reviewer as well but didn't get a fancy notice like you! Do we need to do anything proactive or just approve edits on pages we see e.g. on our watchlist? --Bermicourt (talk) 18:58, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm afraid I do so much translating that I sometimes don't check through the articles as thoroughly as I might, especially if I'm tired! I used to get the {{Coord}} formatting wrong (partly leaving it in German wiki format) and a very patient Wikipedian followed me round tidying it up, until I eventually learned how to get it right - most of the time at least. So thank you for being patient and let me know if I'm making repeat errors. I want to get better! Regards. --Bermicourt (talk) 20:26, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

User:Pumpie translations

Hi: Looking at the Rough Translations category for something easy to fix, I noticed all the Gare de entries that had sprouted there, and so became aware of Pumpie's pattern of posting bad translations. After seeing that he posted more yesterday and today, I have added a message to his talk page. Since you have been painstakingly doing initial cleanup and tagging on his articles, I thought I should make you aware that I have waded in. You might also have more tact than me. It would obviously be best if we could get him to do something more productive or to check his work for accuracy and for correct linkage and categories. I don't think for a minute that his intentions are bad, but he's creating so much work for those few of us both able and willing to do translation cleanup that otherwise I think it will be time for a second RfC. We were finally starting to reduce the backlog in that category and with his output it's growing faster than it can be contained unless we can find several new volunteers in that largely thankless area.Yngvadottir (talk) 18:23, 29 June 2010 (UTC) . . . and as a demonstration and because it needed doing, I've created Gare d'Épinay-sur-Seine, but I don't know how to do the line box at the bottom of the article so would be grateful if you could and would. I also created the TER Haute-Normandie category that he had placed several stations in, and added it and the TER Picardie category to the TER category, so that's a bit more orderly now.Yngvadottir (talk) 00:52, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Hello. Re Pumpie's continuing efforts at bad automated translations, what do you think about opening an RfC? Regards, Constantine ✍ 16:22, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
I certainly intend to move forward, however I have no experience with RfCs and their bureaucratic formalities. I have opened a draft page to prepare the RfC, so any help will be appreciated. Regards, Constantine ✍ 19:49, 1 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello again Markus! Before posting the RfC, there is one issue we should have to resolve: what would be the "desired outcome"? Constantine ✍ 09:33, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

The RfC has been posted. Constantine ✍ 10:23, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Groothusen

Hi Markussep. I can't seem to get the census date to display in the infobox for this article. Can you help? (Stayed there this weekend - nice area!) Gruß, Paul. --Bermicourt (talk) 19:27, 11 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Paul, I fixed it. When you use the Infobox Ortsteil einer Gemeinde, the date field name should be "Einwohner-Stand-Datum", not "Stand". Markussep Talk 08:22, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

TB at Cem River

Hello, Markussep. You have new messages at Talk:Cem_River#Moved_to_Cem_River.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Sulmues (talk) 16:41, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

The Geography Barnstar
I have found your contributions in many places. It is people like you, with thorough dedication that make most of Wikipedias content. Thank you for your contributions. My personal recognition for your efforts to make this a better place. Sulmues (talk) 16:01, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Robinson (Paris RER)

This is an automated message from CorenSearchBot. I have performed a web search with the contents of Robinson (Paris RER), and it appears to be a substantial copy of http://www.robinsonheli.com. For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences. See our copyright policy for further details. (If you own the copyright to the previously published content and wish to donate it, see Wikipedia:Donating copyrighted materials for the procedure.)

This message was placed automatically, and it is possible that the bot is confused and found similarity where none actually exists. If that is the case, you can remove the tag from the article and it would be appreciated if you could drop a note on the maintainer's talk page. CorenSearchBot (talk) 13:03, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

German infoboxes

Hi. I wondered if you could tweak it a bit, change the pale blue to #ccccff and shrink the width of the column headers a bit? I find them too thick. They could almost be reduced by half, it will look more compact that way. Dr. Blofeld 21:49, 15 August 2010 (UTC)


Moskopole 2010

Hello! This festival was organised by MAKEDON / ARMAN council. It reprezent the most important festival of Macedonians/Armans/Aromanians/Vlachs culture. They proclaimed there as AUTOCHTONOUS PEOPLE in BALKANS and minority in every place in the world, and also as DESCENDENTS OF ANCIENT MACEDONIANS. (Yioryi (talk) 08:46, 20 August 2010 (UTC))

Makedon Arman Council

wikipedia macedonian arman ; [2] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yioryi (talk • contribs) 09:27, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Valenciennes

I am wikki ing a page on Guy de Bray born in Valencienne, Could I add Hainant as his province and his regian as Wallonia? ieuan Sant 09:50, 21 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ieuan Sant (talk • contribs)

Hello! I am writing the life story of Guy de Bray and have an entry under Guido de Bray, I notice you have one under Guido de Bres. What do you want to do about it as I don't know the convention about two entries for the same man. I am a native English speaker and know a little Dutch, I am writing the article based on a Christian perspective. I was wondering if you would like to cooperate? regards ieuan Sant 20:21, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I have established that Hainaut was a county and not a province.ieuan Sant 13:19, 23 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ieuan Sant (talk • contribs)

Railway stations

HI. Shouldn't it be Castres Railway Station rather than Gare de Castres per WP:ENGLISH? Gare isn't actually the name of the building, its just the French word for railway station isn't it? Dr. Blofeld 15:50, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Yeah I'm just thinking that "Gare" may not be recognizable to some non French speaking editors that's all. Where should the naming convention discussion take place? Great work developing these BTW. Dr. Blofeld 16:06, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Excellent. Would be nice to see them all expanded like UK stations though! I've addressed it to both project, seems stations is run by WP:TRAINS. Dr. Blofeld 16:33, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

Pumpie

I applaud your courage and decisiveness. Even after looking at the guide, I am not at all sure what is expected of me - but I was bold and wrote out a summary of how I see it. Hopefully not too long, I tend to be verbose :-( Yngvadottir (talk) 20:14, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

For your information - I have handled this within the community by issuing an indefinite but not permanent block on Pumpie. They may be unblocked by any administrator if they engage in constructive discussion on their talk page regarding the complaints about their editing which have been lodged, including the RFC, their talk page, and article pages.
I would like to request that you and others start a new section at the bottom for discussion of those issues cleanly. If you can summarize the situation, including what you think the outcome was of the RFC and particular outstanding issues elsewhere, I would appreciate it. We owe Pumpie our attention to ensure that, if they chose to cooperate and discuss, they have a way to solve this and succeed going forwards.
Thank you. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 21:34, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Question

You apparently started the article Kalabaka. Wikpedia never forgets!  :) We are currently using "First Major Contributor" to decide on what dialect of English (!) is being used in articles. In what dialect were you trained? Hint: probably "British" (which I suspect) or "American." Someone just inserted a "mispelled" word from one dialects pov. Knowing which one it "should" be, based on your experience should help. I think. Or maybe start a war. Who knows?  :) Thanks. Student7 (talk) 20:44, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

"British English" also agrees with the newest, otherwise "mispelled" word, so that works just great with no repercusssions expected (except when someone changes my American English "mispellings"  :) Thanks. Student7 (talk) 20:12, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

Gare d... moves

Ah, thanks. I looked for one that had been moved, couldn't find one, and noticed he used lowercase "station" for his Greek ones, so went with that. I need to put something on his talkpage about the problems with that article; didn't even have time to look at the other new French stations. While I've got you, is it Category:Train stations in Picardy or Category:Train stations in Picardie? Both exist. Yngvadottir (talk) 17:09, 20 October 2010 (UTC)

District

Yes, that looks perfect. Thanks for that. Yes, I think we should definately replace those old yellow maps with the svg type ones too. If you could update the district template I won't quabble about it being deleted or not.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:25, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Church names

Hello! You are of course quite right. I actually remember meaning to move them to "Church of St. X" which in my experience is more common for Orthodox churches (probably because it reflects the name form in the local idioms better than the Saxon genitive). For some reason, probably because I was working quite late, I did not go through with the full move, resulting in the forms you noticed. I'll see if I can rectify them tomorrow, because either way the church listings of the "cultural monuments of Albania" navbox need some attention. Regards, Constantine ✍ 22:12, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Yep those are good translated, but that difficult ones i can't translate sorry, maybe User:Kedadi --Vinie007 05:08, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Pumpie 2

Hello again. Regarding Pumpie, he evidently doesn't want to accept facts or doesn't care what we tell him. I think that any further interaction with him only encourages this behaviour, and that in effect, whether intentionally on his part or not, Pumpie is trolling. For my part, I will apply WP:DNFTT henceforth. I will also notify the Greek WikiProject to try and recruit users to go through his articles, although I am not very hopeful as to a good result. Constantine ✍ 21:40, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for persisting in this. Over the years, I've watched in horror as Pumpie has churned out rubbish in relation to Greek articles. I tried to raise certain issues with him from time to time, but he continued just as before. Wikpedia is better without him. Good riddance.--Damac (talk) 21:57, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Yes, I too think that is what would be best. Some automated way to check his articles, then sort them by country. From there a work-list could be created to begin re-translating them. I don't really use bots and the like, do you or should we ask someone else? I don't know about merging some of his articles, I guess this is best decided on a case by case basis. I have already notified the Greek project and will try to raise some of the more capable Greek editors' awareness of the problem. However I am not really expecting a big participation, and either way cleaning this up will probably take months. Constantine ✍ 22:04, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
I don't use bots, I do use AWB. I'll see what I can do in the next few days, and I'll let you know. Markussep Talk 22:16, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Good. If there's any way I can help, let me know. Constantine ✍ 22:39, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
I put a list of all articles Pumpie has created (nice this Soxred93 tool) on my userpage User:Markussep/Greece. I started sorting them, feel free to jump in. Only 5642 to go... Pumpie probably also edited existing articles, we can add them if we stumble upon really bad edits. Markussep Talk 21:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)
Good work. I notified WPGR, and added a proposal to claim articles for review later, similar to GAN, so as to avoid duplication. I hope that's OK with everyone. Constantine ✍ 11:29, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
{sticks head in) I see it and ... oh my dear gods. I had not dared summon up the entire list myself for fear of breaking Toolserver. I'll see what I can do with French/German articles and strike em out as I check em, but I can't promise to do many since the level of concentration required is so high - there are a lot of interruptions at my end. Yngvadottir (talk) 15:04, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for joining ;-) After I'm done sorting the articles, I'll probably start with Dutch, German and French. Markussep Talk 15:26, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
I have already begun to check French articles, though they were in the unsorted section. @Yngvadottir: "Patience and time do more than strength or passion" ;D Alvar☮ 16:21, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

It struck me that Schloss Lenzburg wasn't there and that led me to realise there is another Pumpie IP whose contributions need to be added: 69.198.125.208. I'm going to go ahead and do that one page at a time. Yngvadottir (talk) 17:21, 11 November 2010 (UTC)

OK! I'll make a list of 69.198.125.208 's contributions tonight. I need to use AWB for that, unfortunately the Soxred93 tool doesn't work for IP's. Markussep Talk 09:12, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
I went through clicking on everything and adding all those that were new. I sincerely hope I didn't miss any. More work, I'm afraid. I'm beginning to think that the prevalence of sad little stubs on places in France, Germany, Austria ... is due less to the way Wikipedia has historically grown than to Pumpie. I keep running across articles I had no idea were his. Yngvadottir (talk) 15:55, 12 November 2010 (UTC)
Ah, I hadn't noticed you already added them, great! Markussep Talk 18:46, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you

For doing so many things within WP Albania, right now the churches. Let me know if you need help with translations. --Sulmuesi (talk) 21:26, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Markussep. You have new messages at Sulmuesi's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Sulmuesi (talk) 22:15, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for that. Can you please change the links to english in the CUltural Monuments nav box?♦ Dr. Blofeld 23:27, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Sure, when I'm done moving everything to English titles. Might be better to create templates by county, a navbox with 200 links isn't very pretty or useful. Markussep Talk 00:19, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Feel free to split that navbox at any time, I'm trying to translate one at a time. It's funny how the source [3], tried to translate in English after Dr. Blofeld and you had already started doing the job. An example of how wikipedia precedes real life.--Sulmuesi (talk) 13:59, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Uitnodiging

Mag ik je uitnodigen voor Albanese wikiproject?


Hello!
I noticed you've made edits or that you are in some way connected to Albania or Albanians related articles.

We are a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Albania and Albanians related topics and are organized within WikiProject Albania.
I thought that you may be interested in viewing the current tasks of our WikiProject or its talk page and get involved. Furthermore, if you are interested in joining the wikiproject, please feel free to add your name in the Participants' page!.

Thank you and, again, welcome among us!

--Vinie007 15:16, 7 November 2010 (UTC) (een albanese nederlander :P)

Names of churches

Well done on renaming the churches in Albania, it's a very tough job. I habe to note the following: there are specific cases that might be more conplicated so the "Church of Saint Mary" in most case is "Church of the Dormition of the Theotokos" and "Saint Michael" should be renamed "Archangels Michael and Gabriel". I will make the necessary adjustments where necessary.Alexikoua (talk) 17:34, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure? I have seen a few Dormition churches in the list (in Albanian: Kisha Fjetja e Shën Mërisë), but most are "plain" St. Mary's (Kisha e Shën Marisë). Of course the list may be wrong. When I was in Moscopole last year the signs on the churches were "plain" Shën Marisë and Shën Mëhill (I think they even shortened it to Kisha e Shën Millit). I should upload my pictures of Moscopole and Berat, the churches were wonderful. Markussep Talk 17:46, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Ah, and something else that has been puzzling me and Sulmues: how would you translate Manastiri i Ungjillizimit (in Vanishtë)? Ungjillizim could mean something like "Evangelism". I found a picture of the monastery on Google Earth 40°00′12″N 20°10′41″E / 40.003276°N 20.177958°E / 40.003276; 20.177958 with the caption "ΕΥΑΓΓΕΛΙΣΤΡΙΑ". Could it be the Annunciation to the Virgin? Markussep Talk 18:09, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Yes it is, Evangelistria excactly means: 'Evangelism/Annunciation of the Holy Virgin', in a more vernacular form.Alexikoua (talk) 18:36, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

::Alexi might be a good source on this as the translations of the church's names are several times from Greek into Albanian, so the original Greek form might enlighten me. I am torn for the translation, because we have "Kisha e Ungjillizimit" and "Kisha e Shen Vangjelizmoit", and I don't know which one of them might mean "Annunciation". --Sulmuesi (talk) 18:19, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

It seems like the Ministry of Culture published the names in English after they saw how we are struggling, so it's "Annunciation" per source now. And it's "Vanistër", but the Ministery got it wrong with Vranishte.--Sulmuesi (talk) 18:31, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
I don't think they translated that list last week, the English version of the list has been there since the first time I looked, but I saw there are errors in it. I have more faith in the list I found here: http://www.bashkiakorce.gov.al/images/sqkcompetition/Harta%20te%20Qendres/Pdf%20materials2/Legislation_on_Cultural_Heritage.pdf This also includes secular monuments. That list says Vanishtë, my Russian map says Vanista (it always uses definite forms), my German map says Vanistër, the Greek name is Βάνιστα. I'll use Annunciation Church/Monastery then. Markussep Talk 18:50, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Very good source, and it's gotta be Vanishtë. Hm, this list includes almost 1500-2000 cultural monuments, stuff to spend my life on it. --Sulmuesi (talk) 18:59, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
Hello, Markussep. You have new messages at talk:Cultural Monument of Albania.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

--Sulmuesi (talk) 19:06, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Response

Seriously Markus, you of all people getting preachy with me and accusing me of dumping is quite shocking to me. I've often thought the same thing of things you've done but at the time you obivously thought it was a good idea to get them started in the same way I thought it was a good idea to get the monuments up and running based on support from Sulmues and the project who even visited my talk page asking me to create them. As for creating them in Albanian titles, Sulmues said not to worry about that for now, the project will work on them in due course bit by bit. Coupled with derogatory comments about work I had put into the Lhasa article which was completely obliterated and the fact I've woken up this morning with a stinking head and neck ache does not make me very sweet to log in and see that sort of thing, especially from somebody like you. It was the way you worded it in a condescending manner "please don't do that again" which made me so angry with you, not to mention your "lack of notability" claims when they are no different to any of the articles you've created and are perfectly accpetable on english wikipedia and are articles we should technically have. You've done a lot of consistent great work on wikipedia as an article developer which I am actually very grateful for and I'm sure you feel the same about some of the work I've done. I also appreciate your efforts to move the Albanian cultural monuments to the english titles. But I often find you very stubborn at things I suggest and for the last year or so I've been getting bad vibes from you when we used to be on good terms. ♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

It's good to notice that you've cooled down a bit. We've certainly cooperated in a very productive way on articles about German municipalities etc., and I appreciate that. However, I do find your remarks rather hostile ("you of all people", "preachy", "condescending", "very stubborn", "bad vibes"), and not proportionate to my comment that apparently triggered you. If I have been giving bad vibes, it might be because I don't have the time to perform all the tasks you ask me to do. AFAIK I've always responded politely to those questions. Is "refusing work" already a bad vibe for you? I think I have explained why I don't think Infobox Settlement is a good replacement for Infobox French commune and Infobox German location, and I'm not the only one who wants to keep the old templates. I have converted Infobox German district into a wrapper for Infobox Settlement like you suggested. Frankly, it annoys me that you didn't come back to replace the district maps with your preferred maps nor added coats of arms after I changed the template to make that possible. I don't know in how far Albanian editors were involved in your effort to create about 150 stubs about monuments in Albania. What I do know is that you created the "Monument Kulture" article in the first place, and created all articles in it. "dump" was too strong, I admit, but it really would have helped if you had added in the first place that a "kisha" is a church. Many locations were wrong, you often took the county town instead of the village itself. I meant what I said about using (sources in) languages you don't understand. Same goes for places you're not (remotely) familiar with. I don't speak Albanian either, so when I'm not certain about something (and Google Translate gives strange results), I ask around. You may have noticed that I do return to stub articles to improve them, and to weed out vandalism. I hope you do the same, and don't expect the community to expand all your stubs. I often wonder where you get your information from, for instance Don Quixote Pond or all those villages in Burma. Markussep Talk 16:21, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

undiscussed church disambiguation mergers

I came across a couple undiscussed church disambiguation mergers that you unilaterally implemented in November. I am going through your edits now to revert those and finding many more. What on earth?! There was care, cumulative decision-making by many editors in these pages. You have no right to abruptly destroy all that work.

You perhaps think that duplication within dab pages is bad, but I disagree: some readers will be looking for Holy Trinity Church specifically and do not want to wade through 100s of entries in a general Trinity Church dab. Also Annunciation Cathedral is quite different in meaning from Annunciation Church. Etc. Stop, and please consider helping to reverse any such mergers you implemented which i might not be finding right now.

Actually, i found one case where a merger proposal tag was added, and you did not comment in favor and no one else did, and there was opposition stated, yet u proceeded to implement. That is not how Wikipedia should work. --doncram (talk) 12:54, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

I see u appropriately added Albanian church items in edits like this one on November 17. Those were good, and were perhaps when u got started on church dab pages. Thanks! But, you should not have ignored/overridden structure that others had set up with the massive changes you implemented later, without obtaining a wider consensus. Perhaps your posting a question at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation would have been a good idea to get some others' perspective. Anyhow, besides this, it looks like u r doing good work, thanks. --doncram (talk) 13:01, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for your note. I do agree with you that "... a user looking for a Trinity Church in some town may not know exactly which denomination it is, or whether it has cathedral status or not (local usage may differ from actual status)", so it can be useful to have very specificly named dab pages, and also more general ones that have links to those ones (as in a "See also" from Trinity Church to see "Holy Trinity Church (disambiguation)") and/or to have some repetition of entries. Also i do construct some dab pages that are merged dabs, but i take care to show that by displaying in bold, at the top, all the major alternatives that are redirected, to make it clear to editors and readers which types of entries are to be included in the one dab page. Your November mergers did not create a clear new top structure like that. Anyhow, thanks, no big harm done. I will continue now with my cleanup on dab pages including U.S. historic sites (NRHP-listed places), that coincidentally covers a lot of church dabs. --doncram (talk) 14:25, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for ur further note. At least we're talking, but your statement "Now that you mentioned NRHP-listed places, I removed many links to lists of historical monuments because I don't think those belong in a dab page, see WP:MOSDAB. If the article about the church doesn't exist, a link to the town is more useful" is alarming to me. I am fully aware of MOSDAB, and in particular its clause MOS:DABRL which covers the appropriateness of including red-links in dab pages. I've also opened and participated in long discussions with disambiguation-focussed editors to sort out the best practices for dealing with NRHP items, and to revise some policies. Some/many NRHP items on dab pages are not fully compliant with the current formatting requirement, but they should be fixed (usually by adding/refining a supporting bluelink so that it points to a Wikipedia article showing the same red-link in a meaningful context) rather than be removed. I am doing that cleanup of formatting. All the NRHP-listed places are Wikipedia-notable topics, and having their entries on dab pages is an essential part of building a proper article naming structure, and avoiding naming conflicts. But yikes, you are saying you are removing those?! Don't! Where have you done that? Again, good we're talking. --doncram (talk) 15:10, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
Specifically your edit to the Church of the Resurrection dab page removed the supporting NRHP bluelinks for two items in Alaska, which were proper supporting links per MOS:DABRL that pointed to NRHP list-articles that included redlinks to those churches, in context (i.e. with address and coordinates and some other info that is present in NRHP list-articles). Your replacing those supporting links by links to the towns in Alaska in which those churches are located, was wrong, because those town pages may not provide any information at all about the churches and in particular do not include the same redlink. Click on the redlink and then click on "what links here" to see that the NRHP list-articles include those, but the town articles do not. If a church is covered in both, it could possibly be okay to have it supported by a bluelink to the town article instead or in addition to the NRHP list-article, i would concede, but i happen to know the NRHP list-articles include useful specific info like coordinates, so i do prefer to use those myself.
It happens there are disambiguation-focussed editors who go around removing redlinks that are not fully compliant with MOS:DABRL portion of MOSDAB. So your edit plus a visit from one of those would have the effect of fully removing the item from the dab page, when it is a needed item, when it was previously MOSDAB-compliant and when an article for it will in fact be created.
BTW, I now expect all the NRHP items to be created within a year, i am pretty sure. But first i and others need to get the article names solidified, which is partly done by including these on dab pages, to encounter/resolve potential naming conflicts. --doncram (talk) 15:32, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Hmm, there's more to question / learn about. Amidst some good improvements in the same edit, you removed a helpful explanatory note for a Russian church in this edit, which was needed to explain why the entry for the Russian church was in the page, i.e. that it is also known as Church of the Holy Apostles. Don't delete such explanations! Also you added or maybe you just edited some entries where there was a pipelink. In general in dab pages, the primary link for an entry should be shown unhidden by pipelinking. Those are 2 dab page principles / practices you need to know about. --doncram (talk) 15:16, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Okay, per ur reply i understand u did know about usually avoiding pipelinks. And i see that Russian one's inclusion was in fact covered by the top stuff in the dab, which explained the dab was about two bolded names. I still happen to think the explanatory note is helpful to show the Russian church is included in the dab for meeting both naming requirements, which would be relevant if someone was thinking about splitting the dab, but that's minor.
Also, i see u'r in the top 400, actually top 100 wikipedians by edits! Nice to meet u. i am merely in the top 200, so far. :( --doncram (talk) 15:41, 10 December 2010 (UTC)