This is an archive of past discussions with User:Leahtwosaints. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Hi Leah, I'd been kind of inactive on Wikipedia for a while so I'm sorry that I took over a year to answer your post. Are you still interested on working on the Dixie Chicks pages?
Sure. I just got a little pissed with Wasted Time, since it was the first article I worked on, and he tore it up to the point that some references on the band page don't work anymore. I'm working on two other articles, but it'd be cool, just because I spent so much time hunting down references. I think the band page could be easily made to B and then GA status, and then Maguire. --leahtwosaints (talk) 15:12, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
We were both working on Tal Wilkenfeld's article some time ago, and never had any photos- I found someone on Flickr with some amazing photos and he's willing to allow us to use some, but I don't know how to explain to him about changing the copyright to attribution, non commercial, and the rest. Can you help maybe? They are here: I don't know how to upload other people's photos from Flickr (even though I get their permission)-- these are of Tal Wilkenfeld and are in all honesty, a "10"+ !! The owner is a pro photographer, and has offered but I don't know how to explain to him how to change the attribution, non-commercial and more to upload his photos here. I asked User:Aleta-- the only Admin I really know, for help but she's never done it before -no media ever. Could you help me? I just found like, 2 dozen seriously needed pictures for Wikipedia (of mostly living people-- Rick Danko had died, but other than that.. besides, they've been uploaded by the owner) so please answer me on my talk page. If you can't help, maybe you can suggest someone who can? Thanks for listening. Oh, the photos: Tal Wilkenfeld there's two [1], [2] and her band [3] all in Flickr from the same guy, nicknamed Mandy-Pixel. --leahtwosaints (talk) 03:29, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Then on that main upload page click on the Flickr upload page link.
What some people don't realize is that they have to PERMANENTLY release their images with a totally free license. They can't just allow only Wikipedia use.
So they really, really, really have to change the license on the Flickr photo page itself. Then anybody can upload the image to the Commons. I can help upload and categorize them myself too once they do that.
But until they do that the images can be deleted from the Commons because admins and others on the Commons can point back to the more restrictive license on Flickr.
So the Flickr photo license needs to be changed to one of these 2 acceptable licenses:
CC-BY
CC-BY-SA
I am an admin at cannabis.wikia.com and I explain the free licenses here:
This table below summarizes which Creative Commons image licenses are OK and not OK for Wikia, Wikipedia, or the Wikimedia Commons. It uses Flickr licensing as the starting point. By the way; Flickr can search its images by CC license. Run your mouse cursor over "Some rights reserved" on Flickr image pages to see the license in effect for that particular image.
The above table uses some common icons and abbreviations used on Flickr and elsewhere. "BY" is for attribution, as in a photo is "BY" a certain person. That means the image requires attribution, by saying who the image was created BY. SA is for Share Alike. Licenses with NC ( - non-commercial use only) or ND ( - no derivative works allowed to be created) are not OK here. If the image is not OK, consider asking the author to release their work under a free license such as CC-BY (Creative Commons Attribution license) or CC-BY-SA (Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike) or Public Domain. See also: Wikipedia:Public domain.
"However, because licenses are not set in stone, asking the uploader to change the license is a possibility. More often than not, there will be no appropriately licensed Creative Commons images, or no Creative Commons images at all. If this is the case, you may decide to politely ask those who have uploaded an image if they would be prepared to release rights to it. This works in most cases, and if it doesn't you can try for a low resolution version, which also works quite often for those unwilling to release the standard version. If doing this, be specific in your request: the picture must be licensed with CC-BY (attribution) or CC-BY-SA (attribution and ShareAlike). Permission granted without the license on the image page being changed is undesirable, especially in cases where permission is granted via a private message, which is unverifiable."
--Timeshifter (talk) 20:21, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Put a few (3 or 4) sentences together about his activist POV re:gay rights activities, in your words...put 'em in the article...and let's see what happens!!!--Buster7 (talk) 03:43, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
I know what you mean about personal research. But there are ways to add your personal insights without stepping out of bounds. Anyway, nice to meet you. Good luck in Editing!--Buster7 (talk) 13:54, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
It is simpler that you may think of. Go to wikipedia commons [1] and create an account. The click on "Upload file" on the left menu, follow the instructions, there is one option for pictures coming from Flickr (to save you trouble with the legal rights). Once uploaded, you can reference it the same way you reference images in English wikipedia (use [[File:]] tag). I hope that helps, best regards, Miguel.mateo (talk) 02:18, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Heres the Zain Bhikha picture. Don't worry about the bot message on Yusuf Islam, I think it is just that the bot cannot tell it is the same as the picture on Flickr because I have cropped it. A human will be able to see that it is the same when they check. Should be ok on this one, I have stopped using the bot, too slow! much quicker to do it manually. SpinningSpark02:28, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
pix
Good work getting the Yusuf photo - it's fine. The Cat photo is a good performance shot for the body of the article, but would be great if we could also find something for the infobox that shows his face more. As for Wikimedia, I don't offhand know anyone there, but I'll keep an eye out. David probably knows someone there - you could ask him. Tvoz/talk04:09, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
To both Tvoz and David, yeah, I've been spoonfeeding these two guys for the old Cat Stevens and the new Yusuf Islam photos, coaxing the owners along for days. BUT. I still have feelers out with three more owners of Stevens/Yusuf, so, I feel you on this, Tvoz. As I said, fundamental Muslims discourage photos from being taken, for fear that we will begin to put whomever in the picture above Allah, as in the case of your kids, or Rock Stars, and fortunately, Yusuf isn't too conservative,, though I'd say he's maybe an 8.5 on a scale of 10 though. Probably it helps to tell them I'm Muslim when I do ask for Yusuf photos. I got a lot of Salaams asking for the one we have now. :)
Hi Leah - just wanted to bring this one to your attention: Decca is the parent company, Deram was the short-term spinoff from the late 60s/ early 70s. Not sure why you had it the other way around, but this is correct. Cheers Tvoz/talk08:33, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I knew that. Someone with just an IP address reverted one of my edits, and that was one that they changed. I guess when I went to fix the problem, I accidentaly just copied the same damn thing. --leahtwosaints (talk) 09:50, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Here you go. You should look into creating a Commons account if photography is going to be a focus of yours - they could use your help. --DavidShankbone14:20, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
I would like to work in Commons, if only to FIND what I'm looking for. To me, it's a maze. I keep finding weird stuff, like, in the Dixie Chicks group, there's one photo still there of Pete Yorn, and for a while, under Cat Stevens-- or maybe it was Yusuf Islam, there was an audio there which turned out to be Part 1 of Saddam Hussein's recorded life story! But I can't even figure out where the new photos go, or how to find the old ones alreadu there. By the way, the title of the photo right here above, of Natalie Maines has Glasgow spelled wrong in the photo link (see above, you'll get it). Can it be fixed? How?
David, I just got so tired of working on pages missing photos, even with zillions of photos of the people floating around out there, so that's what inspired me to go on this photo-hunting spree. I am almost out of it. Though if you know ANYBODY who can teach me how to work in Commons, or even upload photos to there, please let me know.
Darling, please take this kindly because I think you are doing great work, but if you haven't checked out the User pages of people who are helping you, we all have a lot of stuff going on. Asking people to come back to your Talk page regularly for new upload assignments, well...it's just not good form. Wikipedia's spirit is DIY - Do It Yourself. I don't mean this to be rude, but many of us have trouble keeping up with our own work, without having to come back to your Talk page to do stuff you would like to see done. I welcome you here, give you a big hug, hope you take this constructively, but now bow out of these assignments. I'm sure not everybody feels the same way (nobody ever does on here) and I hope you don't find this discouraging, but empowering - if you spot those problems on the Commons, you're the best one to fix them. Feel free to drop by my Talk page anytime - just not to assign me more work :-) --DavidShankbone07:25, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
I'd assumed I left the message on your page, that I was only going to be trying to find the elusive photos that have been missing for so long, for the next 2 weeks (this being the end of the second week). No, I don't want to do the Commons thing, because if you read MY user page, you'd have seen that I only just learned to use email a couple of years ago! Why? Possibly because I'm up there in the years, and have lived in places (small towns in Brazil) where few people used computers. This was to be my last group of photos to go and find, and nearly all of them were requests from other people, including Tvoz for the Cat Stevens ones. It took some a LOT of time for me, begging people to take the copyright off their treasures. Not something I enjoy, but something I'd imagined to be useful since it's one of those things most of us in the lower pecking order here end up doing. Anyway, I am still somewhat too ill from my disabilty-related issues to get it done. Someone will surely come along by next year and notice what's lacking on the pages. Hopefully the owners of the pics won't have re-assigned copyrights to their photos by then. I only know a total of 5 wikipedians total so I strongly doubt my absence will be noticed. I've been thinking of selling the computer anyway. leahtwosaints (talk) 08:16, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi Leah, I had noticed you had been asking people to download photos at least since August. I actually think it's easier to upload files than to learn Wiki code and format (which you have done deftly), since the directions are step-by-step, and you first registered on Wiki in 2007. I don't think your disability has a place in this discussion; there are quite a few disabled people on here who would say the abilities you have shown in editing Wikipedia indicate that you have the ability to download/upload images, especially if you are spending a lot of time finding, e-mailing and begging people. The final step of download/upload is surely the least stressful aspect on your disability. If you don't care to use Commons, you can always upload directly to Wikipedia. I'm sorry that you reacted poorly to what I tried to frame nicely to someone who, by most measures, is not a new Wikipedian. Best of luck to you. --DavidShankbone15:06, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
Commons help
Hello. I noticed your request for Commons help. I have many edits on the Commons, and can answer some of your questions. Feel free to leave comments on my Commons or Wikipedia talk pages. Lately, I check my watchlists most days, and will notice when comments are added. --Timeshifter (talk) 08:26, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
photos
As you may or may not know, I decided to take off two weeks to beg folks for really good photos of some of these musicians who usually are completely lacking. After this week, I plan to return to the humdrum, predictable clean up of edits and writing, etc. I need some help in uploading some photos. I thought if I asked the 6 people total that I'd met here, to help upload the photos now that I finally have coaxed the owners into SA-BY-CC or whatever, that it'd work. One person I asked two times just let loose on me. These are the elusive photos that we can sure use:
Camper Van Beethoven- (they have NO photo at all thus far)[9],
Tal Wilkenfeld!! -she has no photo still![10],
Greg Lisher[11], Jonathan Segal : [12]Victor Krummenacher: [13]
(these last three are individual members from Camper Van Beethoven)
Counting Crows: [14] Can you help? I would like to obtain the photos before the utterly nervous people with their little copyrights freak out and change the attribution to something incompatable. --leahtwosaints (talk) 17:45, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
I uploaded the Tal Wilkenfeld photo to the Commons. I used this excellent tool:
It can take up to a day for the bot to finish the job and upload the photo. But it fills out everything in the Flickr upload form except the category. I had to type that in myself. It finished uploading the photo since I first checked not long ago.
The other Flickr photos you linked to in your last comment have good free licenses for the Commons. So they can be uploaded. Please try the Flickr tool and tell me what you think. Don't worry about the categories too much. Try uploading without a category. If that doesn't work, put anything, even a nonexistent category. It can be corrected later. I can help with that.
Or you can go to the commons:Main Page linked from the sidebar of any Commons page. The Contents section on that page has links to the various main categories. Use the Commons search engine too to search for relevant categories. I use my Google Toolbar to search the Commons site for categories. I create many categories too. I created the Tal Wilkenfeld category.
OK! Bless you. Anything-- well, I'll be home in a couple of hours. The pic of Tal was so good, I really didn't want to lose it. Also, there's a woman with photos of The Cowsills and Waddy Wachtel, neither of which we have here. She's been banging her head against the wall, trying to understand the upload process. I told her I'd ask an Admin. or trusted editor if they'd help guide her in. She's really nice, would you? Her email is: palanker@gmail.com Her name is Louise. She's expecting someone... I thank you for any help. --leahtwosaints (talk) 11:20, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
I don't communicate by email. So I can't help her that way. She can ask me for help via my talk pages though. Even unregistered users can leave comments on talk pages. Also, there is live help at the help desk:
A roundabout way is for others to let you upload their photos. Then you have to get them to communicate by email to the Commons admins OKing the images to be under an acceptable free license. See commons:Commons:OTRS.
It may easier for some people to upload to Flickr than to the Commons. Just tell them to pick one of the 2 acceptable CC licenses I mentioned previously.
Once you find a good free image on Flickr you can point it out on the talk page of a Wikipedia article that could use it. Eventually someone will upload it.
Pictures uploaded as requested. I did cropped versions of a couple of them that seemed to need it as well. Hope that's what you wanted. SpinningSpark20:12, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
Flickr to Commons
I don't know anything about the Flickr licker tool, but there is one on the toolserver that's pretty easy to use and you don't need to sign up for it. Here are some easy step by step instructions.
Find the image you want on Flickr and check that the licence is ok for Wikipedia.
Open Commons in another browser window/tab and make sure you are logged in there.
Open the Flickr upload tool in another browser window/tab and type in your Commons user name.
Copy the Flickr page url into the upload tool page and click "Next"
If you've done it right so far the tool should now find the Flickr image. Fill in a category, which will be "Music" for your images and make any changes to the description that are needed. Click "Next"
A Commons page for the image will now be created (but without the image at this stage). If it all looks ok, click "Save page"
You will now see in the "Permissions" section a link that says "Click this link". Click the link.
You will now be taken back to the toolserver page and it should say "upload completed". Click the "return to uploaded image" link.
Go and make a cup of tea while the upload bot fetches the image from Flickr to Commons (this usually takes some time).
OK I screwed it up. It's the whole damned category thing. When it told me to go back and edit the stuff in red, I thought I had, but apparently Guitarists are not acceptable along with Musicians from the United States. I'll never get the hang of this crap. So after I "edited" my other choices, "Studio Musicians", etc., and sent it, the message says now that the editor (ME) never edited the page. I freaking give up! If you only knew how pissed off I am. --leahtwosaints (talk) 00:56, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Cropping images
To crop an image you have to first download it to your local PC. In most browsers you can do this by pointing your mouse at the image you want to download, then right-clicking the mouse and select "save image as..."
Next you need to open the image in a picture editor. If you have a printer you will probably have got an editor with the printer. Otherwise, you can use Microsoft Paint to do it. If you want detailed instructions you need to tell me what editor you are using.
Save the cropped picture, then you can upload it to either Wikipedia or Commons in the usual way.
Leah, I am not amused by this, you asked on my talk page Please teach me this stuff! I spent a lot of effort explaining things to you and all I get is the response I'm not cut out for this stuff. I'd planned to sell this computer anyway. I don't like feeling so irritated, stressed out, and for WHAT, really? Tsssss. I feel bad for her, but I'm done with this shit. You have wasted a great deal of my time on something you did not want, you could have just asked me to upload the pictures and left it at that. Anyway, Louise Palanker seems to have now uploaded them herself;
I told you I did try. Apparently it was a problem with Categorizing what was being uploaded. I chose Musicians from the United States. Also, Guitarists, and Studio Musicians. It didn't go through. When I removed all the categories but the one it had suggested, it said, "Editor hasn't changed anything" or something like that! I flipped out. I don't know how to get a category, and my computer --the mouse is now not working more of the time than any other place. Poor Louise was struggling for days, and I had really no way of knowing how she could remove that NC sign from her photos at Flickr. I'm sorry me stressing out upset you. I even just planned on leaving the Wikipedia just because of the problems I've been having.. the stress has my blood pressure soaring. Apologies. I still wonder, how did you find her photos there? I can't find anything at Commons, and even typed her name, the names of all the photos, everything into the upload box to look, and found nothing there. Thank you though, for the directions. They were useful till the last step. --leahtwosaints (talk) 11:42, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Oh, ok, I guess that's reasonable. I found the photos because the first one I tried to upload had the same filename as Louise Palanker had used (lucky coincidence), then I just looked in her account to see what else she had uploaded. The usual way to find things is to use the search function. But another way is to look in the relevant category. That's why you are pestered to put in a category. But actually, you don't have to put in a category to get the upload to work, you can leave that to someone else if you like. You will get messages asking for a category but the picture will still get uploaded. I suspect that the real reason it did not work was because you forgot to press "Save" at step 6 and then used the back button. SpinningSpark16:04, 8 February 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for forgiving me! It really bothered me that I had hurt you, who had been so kind to me in showing me how to do this. I really am normally an easy person to get along with, so, again, I do apologize. I don't know what's been keeping me on edge lately. Perhaps it's the dreaded (dare I say it?) pre-menopause thing. Oh Gawd!!! leahtwosaints (talk) 11:12, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
Flickr uploads
Leahtwosaints. Thought I'd stop by and see how you were doing with the Flickr uploads. I totally understand why people get frustrated and angry with uploading Flickr images. In my experience some of the admins at the Commons just don't get it, and some will ignore some of my suggestions for making the process easier. See
In my experience the last few days with http://toolserver.org/~bryan/flickr/upload I think it is not working consistently. I can't recommend it anymore. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. I managed to upload the Flickr photo of Maria Muldaur that is now in the infobox for her article.
I suggest using the regular Flickr upload form at the Commons:
Hi Leah,
I think you did it all except for the last bit where you have to "click this link" to complete the upload (step 7) when you go back to the commons page. That always catches me out as well, you think you have finished but you haven't. I pressed the button for you and the picture has now uploaded [15]. I know you must have done everything right before that because the bot has credited the upload to you. Nice one. Don't forget, it sometimes takes a very long time (15 minutes or half hour) before the bot actually moves the picture to commons. SpinningSpark17:24, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
RE: Need to learn some Commons things
Look! I uploaded Mark Knopfler myself!
Hi, I really would like to understand how to tell: A) Where my photos go after upload to Commons B) When I find a photo that clearly doesn't belong in a category, i.e. "Nancy Sinatra" in Category: Counting Crows, how to move it to another place-- and how to know what that place IS C) How to create new categories like "Slide guitarists", "Woodstock Reunion 1979", " or "Session Musician" when there's an abundance of photos or other interesting things that would belong D) How to request audio file clips -or even create them, if it's not too hard.
In essence, "That place is a maze. I want to know how it really works, and then help fix things. Seriously, will you help adopt me? Even just a little like how to categorize for just the time being? Teach me at least a little on how to categorize and find files and such? I promise to behave. You are the best thing that could have happened to me- Many people who use Commons aren't willing to explain the layout (which appears very different than Wikipedia) so I feel helpless, but since my focus here is on biographies of musicians, if I do upload anything, are there any categories I can place them in besides "Music"? I'd like to add a category for some bands from the UK or the United States by genre. I need a teacber! leahtwosaints (talk) 00:46, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
OK, you're adopted. :) Here are some answers to your questions. Photos you upload on the Commons end up on the Commons servers. Even though you can see the image description page on Wikipedia, the image is not stored on the Wikipedia servers.
The Commons exists to avoid having the same image stored on many different-language Wikipedia servers. There is no need anymore to upload free images to Wikipedia as in the past. Nowadays all free images should be uploaded to the Commons.
To see your Commons uploads click on the log link in the sidebar of your Commons user page. Then choose "upload log" from the menu.
Categories are added to a photo by putting double brackets around a category name. Click almost any image on the commons and look at the wikilinks in the form of [[Category:NAME]]
If the category doesn't exist yet the link will be red. To make it a blue link add a parent category to the red link page. You can create whole category trees if necessary.
Also, look for existing categories. I use the Google toolbar in my browser to search the commons site. You can also drill down the category trees from the commons:Main Page. Take a good look around the music categories to get a feel for the subcategories and related categories.
You can also look in the Wikipedia articles closest in subject matter to the image. See what categories they use. Paste them in the commons image page, click the preview button, and see which categories are red links and which ones are existing categories on the commons.
I don't know anything about audio file clips. Probably only certain audio file types are accepted. Try asking around on the Village Pump pages, the help pages linked from the Commons sidebar, etc.. --Timeshifter (talk) 05:05, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
With reference to your recent edit to the Midnight Oil article, please be careful about adding lots of links, particularly definitional links. Ie, links should lead to other other articles that are particularly relevant and helpful to understanding the article's subject. Thus, i would agree that a link to Beds are Burning is particularly relevant to the Midnight Oil article, but that links to urban and point of view don't really help the article. see WP:OVERLINK. regards --Merbabu (talk) 02:18, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I was feeling that way, too. I've been uploading a lot of Aussie and New Zealand musicians, and am kind of burned out today. I did intend to go back and really EDIT those pages, but wanted to have photos in the (few infoboxes that exist) in the articles, since so many have no box at all. Thanks, nice catch. Hey, if you get bored, (please don't think I'm fending work off on you, but if you're editing, on the off-chance that you were seeking something new to go for today, check out the articles, many of which have quite a bit of text already, at the bottom of this page: [16]. I'm still adding to that group without infoboxes, but which are listed primarily as Australian musicians or groups on Wikimedia Commons. Sorry 'bout that! --leahtwosaints (talk) 02:29, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
Cindy Blackman
I've fixed the Cindy Blackman infobox for you. You had a couple of strange settings in it (img_size and landscape=yes). I am happy to crop images for you if you let me know what you want doing. It's no big deal to do but you can't do it on Wikipedia, you have to download the image to your local computer and do it there. Give the links to the images that need work, or else I can give you instructions to do it yourself if you want. SpinningSpark20:10, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. ASAP I'll give you the links that are shrunken or need cropping. I know I need to learn cropping, but don't have enough time right today, so I am very thankful for your help! --leahtwosaints (talk) 20:54, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
Cropped pictures
As requested,
I had to use one of my special Rolf filters on the Julia Zemiro one. These are very rare and can only be used sparingly. SpinningSpark17:41, 6 March 2009 (UTC)
It depends whether those articles will ever be substantially expanded or not whether they should be merged. In any case, I will be not be merging them, I do not work on music articles. If you want to merge them you should first put warning templates on the articles for a period to allow other editors the chance to discuss. The instructions and templates can be found here. SpinningSpark01:56, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
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![[15]](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Waddy_Wachtel.jpg){kind=link}