User talk:Jrcla2/Archive 5

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Nicholls State University

Hi Jrcla2. Nicholls State University's official colors are red and gray. Pure red (#FF0000) and pure gray (#808080). Please see the following link to the Nicholls State University offical website. http://www.nicholls.edu/about/fast-facts/. It's a little bright, but red (#FF0000) and gray (#808080) are the offical colors.

I would like your help with the football teams infobox. I can't figure out how to make the following items show up in the infobox on the page. FCSPlayoffs = 3, ConfTitles = 3, and pagFreeLabel = Outfitter/PagFreeValue = Adidas. When in edit mode they appear, but not when page isn't being edited. Thanks. (User:Spatms)(talk) 22:12, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Quack, quack

FYI: SPI. Email me so we can discuss off line. This needs to stop. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 12:10, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for adding it to the SPI. Re: email - the email address I use for Wikipedia contains my name in it and I like to remain anonymous, so I prefer not to use that mode of communication for this website. I'm surprised no administrator's placed a University of South Florida indefinite range block yet. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:24, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Because USF has 50,000 students plus staff, they have been trying to avoid a range block. The university's assigned IP addresses may include remote student access, too. At a minimum, unregistered IP accounts from USF should be blocked. If you request the range block, I will support. This has been going on for the three years.
We also need to discuss how we resolve issues with the team color schemes and protect them in the future. Not all of the recent changes were randomly bad. The recent changes to a couple of the Stanford navboxes actually aligned the Cardinal red with Stanford's official hex colors. We may need a comprehensive colors review. In the mean time, I will expand my "Sock Hunter" watch list to include all college sports navboxes, not just the representative sample I'm using now to make sure nothing and no one is slipping through the net. Knowledgeable WP:CBB and WP:CFB editors also need to do a comprehensive review of the last 60 days of edits by the last dozen Drago socks. We are not properly reverting all changes as necessary to maintain the uniform color scheme for each university and its sports program. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 14:51, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes, for what it's worth, those Stanford edits were constructive. I went ahead and aligned all the Stanford navboxes I could find with those official hex colors. Jweiss11 (talk) 16:49, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
I just did a spot check of the football navboxes for the 14 SEC teams: ten of the navboxes match the universities' official hex colors; the Alabama, Georgia and Vanderbilt navboxes do not use the official hex colors, and Ole Miss apparently uses Pantone colors and has never designated official hex colors for web use. My prior involvement in the college sports navboxes has never extended into color selection; that having been said, I think we should be using the universities' official hex colors for the web whenever possible. (Allowing, of course, for white text on the background of the darker official color when the lighter official color does not provide sufficient contrast for text.) I would suggest a methodical review of college sports navbox colors is in order as a first step to precluding further color-warring by Drago and anyone else. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 17:52, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

2000/1000

If I were a betting man, I would say Mike Muscala will hit the 2000 point, 1000 rebound marks this season. He currently sits at 1,780 points and 927 boards and he's having a great year. Figuring a minimum of 12 remaining games (regular season and one conference tourney game), he'd need to average 18.3 ppg and 6.1 rpg - both below his season averages (and they'll probably get another couple postseason games). Elias Harris also has a shot (1,631 points, 850 rebounds) but I think he is going to miss on the points unless he picks up his pace and/or Gonzaga makes a strong postseason run. When I figure 4 postseason (conference or NCAA tourney) it looks like he'd need about 23 points and 9 boards a game. Rikster2 (talk) 18:20, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Muscala might be one of the 'how did he end up on this list?' kind of guys, assuming he gets it. Most (although not all) of the other 2k/1k players are legit. Maybe I underestimated him. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:23, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
He's a near seven footer in the Patriot League - there's your answer! Rikster2 (talk) 18:25, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
👍 Like Jrcla2 (talk) 18:36, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
Muscala now over 1000 boards and needs 84 points to reach 2000. 3 regular season games and a max of 3 conference tourney games, and they should get some postseason. I think he's going to make it. Rikster2 (talk) 04:47, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
Me too. And like any standout college player, smart money would be on Muscala knowing he only needs 84 more points 'til 2,000... Jrcla2 (talk) 04:51, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Muscala hit 2000/1000 a few days ago. Rikster2 (talk) 00:35, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Saw that, an IP added him to the article and it's on my watchlist. Jrcla2 (talk) 02:23, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

bert Bell

i undid your edit on the bert bell article. I really no nothing about navboxes. I did not put that navbox thingie in the article cause i dont know how to do stuff like that. But, I will buy that he can be considered the general manager of the eagles while he was the coach, owner, and president of the eagles. If you feel that strongly about it, then revert my edit. I think it's splitting hairs at this time; was Bert Bell officially ever know as the general manager of the Eagles - no. But you have to put things in context. When Bert Bell was the owner/president/coach of the Eagles did he carry out all the duties (which I consider to be that of a GM) of a present day football GM, yes. If you feel strongly about this topic, (I do not), then just revert my edit, no big deal.Ijustreadbooks (talk) 05:26, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

I'm moving this to the talk page on Bert Bell for futher analysis.Ijustreadbooks (talk) 05:30, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
I reverted you. Philadelphia Eagles sources list him as the GM. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:34, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
I read it all wrong, i thought you deleted that he was the general manager. With 2000 edits in the edit, I never actually came across a published book that he was the official GM. Personally, I think he would have to be construed as the GM. Lyons basically calls him the president, gm, owner, ticket salesman, chief scout, and hot dog vendor - he did everything. I can surely pick up a Lyons citation that he was the GM, but if you got something on him from the eagles, that would be a nice tasty treat in the Further Reading section that I could add and further investigate. And no one even reads that article, so it's not a contentious issue. (But let's get real, without a source stating he was the official GM - albeit from a completely biased source like the Eagles, someone has a fair case that he was not the GM because there was no such thing as GM in football in the 1930s.) Ijustreadbooks (talk) 04:29, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
Um, I agree with you that Bell should be considered the GM, but I am not a source. I spent a year tracking down someone who put a navbox on the Bell page that Bell played for a professional team and finally deleting that navbox. You have not provided a source. I put the article up for good review analysis. When anyone says, do you have any source for Bell being considered the official GM, i will say no. If they say we should delete it, then I will say okay. You have to provide a source. Ijustreadbooks (talk) 01:41, 25 January 2013 (UTC)
Moving this to the Bert Bell talk page. Requested help from another editor. I am preparing to revert you edit. No more discussion of this subject will be on this page. Ijustreadbooks (talk) 01:58, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

DragoLink08: ANI discussion regarding requested range blocks

Jrcla, Cuchullain and I have filed ANI reports regarding Drago's continued disruptive editing and sock-puppetry. I have also requested appropriate range blocks for the University of South Florida IP addresses that have provided him with an escape hatch for three years. Your input is requested. Dirtlawyer1 (talk)

NFC Championship winning coaches template.

I heard that you're considering deleting the NFC Championship-winning coaches template, and I must say that I respectfully disagree with your opinion. I see nothing wrong with having templates of coaches who have won the NFC & AFC Championships in the NFL. It shows that they've been successful as a coach, and visitors of Wikipedia will learn when said coach captained his team to a conference title. Mr. Brain (talk) 04:01, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

I respect your decision, but...

Sir, I respect your decision to nominate my Paul Brown coaching tree section, but I must tell you that since all of the names in Brown's coaching tree section do have some connection to him, I don't necessarily think said section should be deleted. Let me know if there is anything I can do to have it avoid deletion, please. Mr. Brain (talk) 21:13, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

If you want to try to have it avoid deletion, comment your opinion at its CfD. Jrcla2 (talk) 21:21, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Klbog1987

At this time, I'm hesitant to hand out a long block, because I just don't have a good feel for his editing habits. I'm going to post a message on his talk page, and see how he responds. Zagalejo^^^ 01:34, 8 February 2013 (UTC)

Ok cool. Thanks...hopefully he starts communicating. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:37, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Well, he responded by blanking my entire talk page. Go figure. Bagumba blocked him for a few days. Zagalejo^^^ 21:22, 8 February 2013 (UTC)
Sounds good, thanks guys. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:58, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

DYK nomination of D. J. Cooper

Hello! Your submission of D. J. Cooper at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! —Bagumba (talk) 00:22, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

DYK for D. J. Cooper

Materialscientist (talk) 00:25, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

My change of heart about the Paul Brown section.

Just so you know, sir, I've changed my position on the Paul Brown coaching tree section. However, in regards to the actual image of Brown's coaching tree, I request permission to add the number of championships each individual coach in his tree has won in parentheses. For example: Paul Brown: (7). Bill Walsh: (3). Bill Belichick: (3). Don Shula: (2). Mr. Brain (talk) 03:03, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

AFD

You may be interested in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/East Carolina Pirates future football schedules (2nd nomination).--GrapedApe (talk) 01:47, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Tony Mitchell (basketball, born 1992)

 — Nyttend (talk) 08:03, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Archive undo

Why did you undo the bot archive?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 17:34, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Official hex colors for color sports navboxes, templates, etc.

Jrcla, you may want to join this conversation here. Regards, Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 13:42, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Erick Green

I'm sitting here watching the Duke-Virginia Tech game and thought why don't I look up Erick Green. Nice job. Jweiss11 (talk) 00:31, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. Jrcla2 (talk) 01:10, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

I edited the Erick Green page because the incorrect draft information is provided. He was traded to the Denver Nuggets. Was my edit deleted because i didn't cite a source. Please fix the article. Thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.164.154.216 (talk) 04:17, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

CPOY Article Strategy

Jrcla2 - Do we want to put a concentrated effort towards completing this year's CPOY articles? I think we have anticipated some winners/likely winners (I created Jake Cohen, Nate Wolters and a couple others I thought were likely candidates, I think DJ Cooper is the probable MAC winner, etc). Seems like every year we get further behind the 8-ball on these because some don't get created in season or shortly thereafter. What do you think? I can sign up to create Stan Okoye and Ray McCallum. Rikster2 (talk) 13:08, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

I hope Tony Mitchell wins Sun Belt POY despite his pretty shaky season (at least he's a sure thing for the 2013 NBA Draft). I will write Ian Clark's article. Maybe we can ping other users who we know to have certain conference and/or school allegiances? I'll also take whoever wins the CAA, for instance. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:41, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
I would be surprised if Jerrelle Benimon of Towson didn't win the CAA POY (which should be announced the night before or day of their conference tourney starting). User:Editorofthewiki usually likes to do Temple articles - I think Khalif Wyatt is the front-runner in the A10. Rikster2 (talk) 14:54, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Hmmm - just looked at EditoroftheWiki's activity and he hasn't edited since late December. He may be inactive. Rikster2 (talk) 14:57, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
This is a rare year where guys from the two teams I cover are solid candidates. Not sure what is meant by strategy, but if any formatting consistency is agreed to let me know regarding Ian Hummer and Trey Burke.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 15:13, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Not sure what you mean by "formatting consistency" but if both of your guys end up as CPOYs if they don't exist, that'd be of great help. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:15, 6 March 2013 (UTC)
Tony - generally we are talking about creating articles for CPOY winners for 2013, but if you could update your guys' articles to include their winning the awards if it happens that would be of help. Rikster2 (talk) 15:19, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

Damn it. I was banking on Mitchell to live up to the preseason hype...I made his bio partly because of his NBA Draft lock and half because of his Sun Belt POY lock. Argh! Jrcla2 (talk) 16:34, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

DYK for O. D. Anosike

The DYK project (nominate) 08:02, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Template:Atlantic 10 Conference Men's Basketball Season Champions

Jrcla, I suggest that we open an RfC on the WP:CBB talk page to determine an explicit project consensus regarding navboxes for conference-level championships and awards. I believe that this "understanding" already exists, but to my knowledge there was never an explicit determination of consensus. It would be helpful if we had a policy to which we could point when such issues arise. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 20:42, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

Probably should. Maybe will do it soon. Jrcla2 (talk) 20:56, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
Just noticed {{Atlantic 10 Conference Men's Basketball Tournament Champions}} exists also. I don't have time to formally TfD it right now though. Jrcla2 (talk) 20:57, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

More college basketball navboxes to delete

Jrcla2, now that you're on a college basketball navbox cleanup kick, here are a whole bunch more that should be deleted: Category:NCAA Division I basketball conference season navigational boxes. There are essentially just footer retreads of the standings templates. We purged all college football navboxes of this sort about a year ago; see; here. Care to TfD these? Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 04:12, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

That's a pretty massive TfD, but I'll do it when I have time. Can you provide me a link to the corresponding CFB discussion so that I can use it in my nomination? Jrcla2 (talk) 04:13, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
We just a had a little edit conflict. The link to the CFB discussion is there now. Would be awesome if you could tackle this. I'm trying to clean up some NFL stuff these days. Thanks again, Jweiss11 (talk) 04:16, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Cool. I can do this tomorrow. Along with CBB navbox cleanup, I've been systematically working my backwards in every yearly Division I season category to create conference subcategories for stray articles. The yearly DI season categories were starting to look like the wild west, what with all of the terrible organization and lack of subcats. Everyone's abuzz right now to edit college basketball articles because of March Madness, so I'm trying to lay low and do some dirty work for a bit. Jrcla2 (talk) 04:20, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
Awesome, thanks. Pretty much all I have time to do these days is wrangle the madness. Maybe one day I can write an article. Jweiss11 (talk) 04:24, 13 March 2013 (UTC)

Speaking of deleting navboxes, didn't we as a project decide not to do conference "Freshman Of the Year" navboxes? I seem to remember the discussion about the Big East template. Well, now there is a new one - Template:Southeastern Conference Men's Basketball Rookie of the Year navbox - by the same guy as the other ones you are dealing with if I am not mistaken. Rikster2 (talk) 12:55, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

What you're thinking of is Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Big East Conference Men's Basketball Rookie of the Year, which quite unfortunately resulted in Keep. I don't think a Big East ROY navbox was ever made though. However, I do think that the SEC ROY navbox should be deleted. Care to open that TfD so it doesn't look like I'm wiki-hounding Trocksuk? Jrcla2 (talk) 14:28, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I'll take care of it this evening. I also am looking to AfD Jarrod Polson, a UK player who doesn't meet notability standards (and won't be back next year) so I'll do both at the same time. Rikster2 (talk) 16:46, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

NBA date formats in infoboxes

Jrcla2, you need to be aware of this discussion at MOS: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Dates and numbers#Years; reverts. This discussion grew out of a feature article review for a basketball player article. Before jumping into the discussion, I suggest that you read the relevant MOS discussions. As I'm sure you can see, this has the potential to screw up the currently used year span conventions in the NBA player infoboxes. After reading the MOS sections on point, let's talk. Dirtlawyer1 (talk) 21:55, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Tony Mitchell

I started with putting ["Tony Mitchell" basketball] in the search bar at flickr.com. It yields about 100 results. Most of these are the other guy (born 89). If you sort through those and find any with your guy, I'll help you get an image.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 13:53, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Most of those are doubtful images. They look like they are from pros. Usually, newspaper photographers don't relicense them and images tagged with "Request to license fastvegadan's photos via Getty Images" are also unlikely. You need to look for images that look like they are from a fan. I will try these, but you may want to give me another list from other photographers than these.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:28, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
I was waiting for a new set of images before I start making inquiries. Should I just go ahead with the first batch?--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 23:42, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
I would think so. What's the harm in doing so, ya know? Jrcla2 (talk) 12:41, 28 March 2013 (UTC)
P.S. You remind me that I have to go through a whole bunch of images from 11 days ago (I got to see Jabari Parker win his fourth state championship via a press pass under the basket).--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:32, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
Re his article:
  1. I think you want to summarize something like this
  2. You might want to include some or all of these links [1], [2], [3], and [4]. If you are really lazy (like me), you can copy my full inline citations right from Trey Burke and not have to do any legwork.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 14:44, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
I appreciate the links, but I'm even too lazy to add new content to his article right now. I think I did a pretty good job on it so that when the draft rolls around, most people (unlike us college basketball editors who know about mid-major players) will want to see who this guy is when his name is called. As it stands, I don't think I need to add much more to it. There are lots of other CBB endeavors I'm trying to tackle now. And, with Rikster2 indefinitely retiring from Wikipedia a few days ago, so much of the burden is going to fall on me that it will be impossible to maintain. I wrote Mitchell's article when I knew Rikster was taking care of other aspects...at this point, unless I feel particularly motivated, my efforts will be concentrated elsewhere. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:57, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

South Jersey

You deleted a list of articles for notable people from South Jersey. I can assure you I read every article and deleted various people who did not have articles or separate supporting material. You can check the article's edit summary. Your second deletion, without comment, amounts to edit warring, about which it is apparent you don't need a template warning. Please do read the relevant articles, and if you want specific supporting refs, tag the individual items. Thanks. μηδείς (talk) 04:48, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Khalif Wyatt

PanydThe muffin is not subtle 16:17, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

LBSU Dirtbags

Hey man, I just noticed that last month you moved the LBSU dirtbags article under the notion that Dirtbags is the official team name. Was that you who left the link to the ESPN article on the talk page, and is that the only source that you have? Because I'm pretty confident that the official name of the team is still the 49ers, and that the ESPN article is mistaken.--Foolishgrunt (talk) 02:32, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

I'd bring this up at WT:COLLEGEBASEBALL under a new topic thread. Jrcla2 (talk) 02:40, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Jerrelle Benimon

Allen3 talk 22:32, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Orlando Smart

Ah, great, thanks. I always find it hard to figure out which is which in those situations. Unless there's a "FC" in the name somewhere, of course. :-) --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 15:35, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks

I was working on the Maggie Dixon Award but got called to lunch. Just wanted to let you know if wasn't going to be left that way.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 16:11, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

No worries, I was glad to do it. Jrcla2 (talk) 17:37, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Destrehan High School football

More content has been added to the page. Please visit the page and go to deletion discussion to see more rational for keeping page. Thanks! User:spatms (User talk:spatms) 22:19, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Joe Jackson (basketball)

Casliber (talk · contribs) 16:03, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Ray McCallum, Jr.

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:02, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Tony Miller (basketball)

Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:04, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK Nomination of Brian Merriweather

Hello! Your submission of Brian Merriweather at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Canadian Paul 22:35, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Taurence Chisholm

Hello! Your submission of Taurence Chisholm at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! —♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 13:56, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

Rereviewed.—♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 19:53, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Terrence Woods

The DYK project (nominate) 00:04, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Tommy Brenton

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:05, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Taurence Chisholm

Hello! Your submission of Taurence Chisholm at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! —♦♦ AMBER(ЯʘCK) 06:53, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

DYK for Ian Clark (basketball)

 — Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:02, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (File:Utah Flash logo.gif)

Thanks for uploading File:Utah Flash logo.gif. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Hazard-Bot (talk) 04:10, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Delaware 87ers

Done. Zagalejo^^^ 20:00, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Infbox conversions

Hi - I have been working on converting infoboxes from NCAA athlete to basketball biography for players who have exhausted their NCAA eligibility. I just wanted to check in and see if you'd like for me to take care of the articles you have created throughout the season or if you wanted to do it? Also, I haven't forgotten Taurence Chisholm - I will see what I have in terms of sources later today. Thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 16:19, 4 May 2013 (UTC)

Have at it...I am currently traveling for business and won't be able to really edit until next weekend. Thanks. Jrcla2 (talk) 01:51, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Utah Flash

Why did you ask to have it redirected? The current convention is that we keep the old team's page active, as you'll see the Colorado 14ers' page separate from the Texas Legends, the Anaheim Arsenal from the Springfield Armor, the Dakota Wizards from the Santa Cruz Warriors and the New Mexico Thunderbirds from the Canton Charge.

I have asked the admin to change it back to how it was. I hope you understand. Tom Danson (talk) 06:11, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

Down to Four 2013 CPOYs

I just finished Pendarvis Williams, so we are down to four uncreated 2013 conference player of the year articles. If you are so inclined, please write 1 or 2. I should have a chance to do 1 or 2 this week as well - we could finish before the 2013-14 season! Rikster2 (talk) 01:44, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do – I'll take Omar Strong and Stan Okoye. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:07, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

I see that you pointed out [Talk:Cal Poly Mustangs baseball here] that "User:Marco Guzman, Jr keeps unilaterally moving SLO sports articles without discussion. He is an alumnus of the school and often edits Cal Poly articles with bias" User:Marco Guzman, Jr is currently adding massive amounts of boosterism to all Cal Poly Pomona articles and vandalising all Cal Poly San Luis Obispo articles. An example is Center for Coastal Marine Sciences-he keeps vandalising/trying to delete it despite being reverted many times by several editors over the years. We all know that Cal Poly Pomona has much lower quality students than Cal Poly San Luis Obispo--Clungmate (talk) 02:24, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

See what I found on California Polytechnic State University talk page. One editor said: Marco Guzman, Jr clearly has a conflict of interest-he is carrying chips about those more fortunate than him. He went to the third–class school called California State Polytechnic University, Pomona, and his issues have no relevance here. I am restating the sourced facts which he previously removed from this very page and also from the California Polytechnic State University article. Marco Guzman, Jr removed the following sourced materials:

Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo is way more selective and has much higher quality students than Cal Poly, Pomona

SOURCE: U.S. News & World Report

Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo= more selective http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/cal-poly-1143

Cal Poly, Pomona= less selective http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/cal-poly-pomona-1144


SOURCE: CollegeBoard.org

Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo= 1120-1330(SAT score range) https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/college-university-search/california-polytechnic-state-university-san-luis-obispo

Cal Poly, Pomona= 930!!-1160(SAT score range) https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/college-university-search/california-state-polytechnic-university-pomona

--Railsshiny (talk) 18:05, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Any takers?--Railsshiny (talk) 18:49, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Cal Poly San Luis Obispo has higher admissions standards than California State Polytechnic University, Pomona. marco guzman, jr also has a secret sock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Uwatch310 --Clungmate (talk) 05:58, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Please refer to Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mangoeater1000. Thank you.-- Marco Guzman, Jr  Talk  08:14, 19 May 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Jon_Stewart/Archive_3#Soccer_Player

I took a look at Talk:Jon_Stewart/Archive_3#Soccer_Player. I understand that for bigger categories it is absolutely essential to sub-categorize things, so it wouldn't be useful for Jon Stewart to be at the William and Mary general alumni category. However CSU-Pueblo has much fewer entries in its categories. As of writing Category:Colorado State University–Pueblo alumni has five entries total in the main category. WhisperToMe (talk) 03:48, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Size of a category is irrelevant here. Explicit Wikipedia guidelines exist on categories exist for a reason. Category:CSU–Pueblo ThunderWolves football players is a sibling category of the hundreds of others found under the parent category at Category:College football players in the United States, most of which also follow WP:SUPERCAT per policy (and the ones that don't is due to editors erroneously re-adding parent categories). Jrcla2 (talk) 04:25, 21 May 2013 (UTC)
Guidelines do allow for occasional exceptions, so perhaps I can start a discussion on the how the size of a category should affect it. Fir Stewart's case the solution is to make new subcats based on population. WhisperToMe (talk) 05:47, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Ralph Hodge

Hi,

I removed you PROD BLP tag because there was a reference.

Uberaccount (talk) 15:13, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

Howie Jolliff

Hello Jrcla2 This is just a courtesy visit to inform you that I took the liberty to add a little text to your article. Hope you'd bear with me. best regards. (MrNiceGuy1113 (talk) 10:43, 26 May 2013 (UTC))

Wilkes-Barre Barons

Hi, I just read your proposal at CFDS. Given the ambiguity of the title Wilkes-Barre Barons, I suggest that Category:Wilkes-Barre Barons players should be a disambiguation page, using {{category disambiguation}}. It would be better to place the new basketball players category at Category:Wilkes-Barre Barons (basketball) players. Category names should be less ambiguous than articles, partly because people can't see the description of what they are adding if they use WP:HOTCAT. Hope this helps, – Fayenatic London 20:28, 26 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi Jrcla2,

Why did you take off the categories for jim smith (basketball coach)? The page needed category(s)

Robert (talk) 04:33, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

VCU 2012-13 season page

Hi Jrcla2. I noticed you removed two of VCU's assistant coaches from last season's team page. I'm a little confused by the change (and also by the original version). Prior to your edit, the infobox listed the assistant coaches as Jamion Christian, Mike Rhoades, and Will Wade. Your edit left only Will Wade. On VCU's website, they list on their 2012-13 roster that the associate head coach was Mike Rhoades, and Jeremy Ballard was the only assistant coach. I want to make sure I'm not missing something before I change the page again to reflect what's on VCU's athletic department website. City boy77 (talk) 21:45, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

I thought Rhoades had left but maybe I was mistaken. Christian should definitely never have been on there because it was his first season as Mount St. Mary's head coach. I believe Wade was there as well in his final season as an assistant before being named Chattanooga's new head coach effective 2013–14. Jrcla2 (talk) 22:40, 10 June 2013 (UTC)

Bob McAdoo

Hi Jrcla2,

Why did you undo my Bob McAdoo edits? For most of the NBA articles of a person who's been a player and coach they separate the accomplishments, I was only trying to make it easier to read.

Ron Riley

I'm sorry about the Ron Riley article. Unfortunately there are two Ron Riley basketball players, I must have confused them or accidently put the 1950 on the 1973. It was an accident, that's the first time I've done that and I do need to be careful. Most of my articles I create are fine and that don't receive negative feedback. It's not really the articles because I mainly start them and other people build on to them, they don't have to be perfect and you don't have to edit everything. If it really makes you happy, you can ban me from making new articles for a while but i'm in the process of learning about how to do it.

Robert (talk) 13:51, 11 June 2013 (UTC)Robert4565


Robert (talk) 13:25, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Re: FYI

No problem mentioning my name, anyone could have checked the history and would have seen the cleanups anyways. I've tried to touch base with that editor a few times for various issues and he did stop using articles and user pages to test his edits, but I don't think he understands that we have a manual of style to follow. I suggested to him about using the sandbox to test his edits, but that has come back to haunt us also, as now we have to go through pages upon pages of sandbox edits just to get to his article edits. If he would use the preview button rather than saving 11 edits in the span of a minute, it would be better, but as far as banning him, I don't think that's the way to go. He obviously wants to contribute and has been editing in good faith, I just wish he had read up on policy and got a better understanding of what Wikipedia is all about before jumping right in and creating all these articles. Cmr08 (talk) 22:06, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

I just re-read the message you left on that editors talk page, and the comment about banning went over my head. I thought you meant banning the editor, but I now see it was banning the editor from creating new articles. Right now, he's just creating all these on his own, and the result hasn't been great, so what if it was explained to him to go through the Article to create process, that way an article wouldn't be created until it meets Wikipedia's standards, and he would also get constructive feedback to improve the articles chance of getting created. Is this something that could possibly work? Cmr08 (talk) 23:56, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

DePRODding of Willie Holley

Did you read WP:NCOLLATH? It starts "College athletes and coaches are notable if..." (emphasis is mine). Now I have to go bother AfD again. Ansh666 18:06, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Sorry if that was a bit blunt, re-reading made me wince a little. Anyhow, I've nominated it for deletion at AfD here. Ansh666 18:27, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
It must have been re-worded/tweaked since the last time I read it. Coaches used to not be part of NCOLLATH. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:28, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
No idea, no problem. Personally, I always go back and read everything I use, but maybe that's just because I'm too afraid of getting something wrong. Ansh666 18:31, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

McDonald's All-American Game

You reverted my edit and called it vandalism. That was not true. Please review the edit here: BingNorton edit. Where is the vandalism that you refer to? Please advise.--Bing Norton 21:26, 19 June 2013 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

The Original Barnstar
Great work on the Rashad Phillips page. I believe the only thing missing is that his jersey was retired at The University of Detroit Mercy, November 19, 2010. Bolford101 (talk) 22:50, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Jrcla2. You have new messages at Doss002's talk page.
Message added 22:20, 29 June 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Jeff Powell

I'm 99% certain he's the Jeff Powell that still holds the state's 110m hurdles record [5], but I can't find a source that conclusively links the two. Bms4880 (talk) 23:29, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

instead of reverting each others' edits like children

Why don't we talk about it? I don't think 2 people winning individual MVPs from different voting bodies are co-MVPs. To me co-MVP is a tie in voting. Why don't you do a Google search and see how many instances of this situation (SEC, B10, SoCon - or this specific case) where the players are referred to as "co-players of the year" by the media. i believe you will be hard pressed to find such cases. Also, I will point out that not long ago you bitched me out for reverting one of your edits accidentally. You've done it to me twice today on purpose. Rikster2 (talk) 22:08, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

When you reverted me it was with rollback and there was no substantive reason for you doing it. I'm reverting you now because I wholly disagree with you on the issue, and have provided edit explanations in my summaries. Just because we overlap extensively in areas of interest to edit doesn't mean I have to agree with you on everything. Player A wins 2013 POY by Voter 1. Player B wins 2013 POY by Voter 2. They both win POY in the same season, having equally split the selectors' opinions. Neither can claim to be consensus POY, thus co-POY. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:07, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Show me one case where this specific situation is referred to as "co-Players of the Year" somewhere besides Wikipedia or sites that are stealing content from Wikipedia. One. This is not the popular usage of the term at all. Seriously one example. Rikster2 (talk) 13:21, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
No. Have fun editing. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:52, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
because you can't. Because that isn't popular or proper usage. You have fun editing too. Rikster2 (talk) 14:01, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Maybe I'll just make a big pronouncement that I'm retiring indefinitely and then come back 10 seconds later. That seems to get people's attention. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:14, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
Feel free. 10 seconds of peace and a haven from your over-aggressive reactions to things would be good for the whole community. Rikster2 (talk) 15:30, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Notables MUST have sources

This edit to the article for Westfield High School (New Jersey) added Pat Cosquer as a notable alumnus, but without any reference establishing his connection to the school. The mention of the school in his article was unreferenced as well. If the addition was based on a source, why not include it both places? If there was no source on which the claim was based, why add it to the school article and risk spreading incorrect information? Alansohn (talk) 02:26, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Visual editor comments

There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:VisualEditor#Call for audit and rollback that you may find interesting.--Paul McDonald (talk) 03:59, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

Delaware rivalries

Hi Jrcla2! Just curious, after seeing the Delaware–James Madison football rivalry article and this edit where you stated that Delaware doesn't have a rivalry with W&M, how we should define which CAA competitors are rivals and which aren't? I understand classifying those annual games with special trophies as rivalries, but not sure where to draw the line with other teams. Thanks! GoingBatty (talk) 03:46, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm just speaking from firsthand knowledge about the Delaware–W&M "rivalry," I can't really speak to most other CAA rivalries. For rivalries not involving William & Mary, I'm going to leave it up to whether they pass GNG or not because I don't have enough knowledge otherwise. I agree it can be murky waters when determining one rivalry's credibility versus another. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:55, 10 July 2013 (UTC)
Hi again! Now I see Delaware-William & Mary rivalry, which you nominated for deletion. I've tried to get this article to be as similar as possible to Delaware–James Madison football rivalry (without having to do research), and commented about the similarity at the deletion discussion. GoingBatty (talk) 17:06, 10 July 2013 (UTC)

Tom Scott

Sorry to be so slow in responding. I've not had as much free time lately and therefore let my ancestry subscription expire. So, unfortunately, not able to help on this one. Cbl62 (talk) 13:58, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Sorry to hear that. Thanks though! Jrcla2 (talk) 14:01, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Flake Laird

Added an image as well as dates! – Connormah (talk) 23:28, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Proposal to start a women's basketball task force

I'm very interested in improving coverage of women's basketball. I thought briefly about forming a Wikiproject, but while researching, realized that a task force would be ideal. There are two major advantages of a task force over a Wikiproject. First is that the task force can leave some of the bureaucracy to the parent Wikiproject. Second, and possibly more important, is that a task force can have more than one parent Wikiproject. While WikiProject Basketball is an obvious parent, so is WikiProject Women's sport, and the task force may be able to draw from both.

According to this process for starting a task force, the first thing to do is gather consensus, so I am sending this to some editors who have been active in editing relevant articles. If there is sufficient interest, I'll take a first stab at filling out the task force template and creating a draft task force page.

At this point, all I need is an answer to two questions:

  1. I would (or would not) be interested in being part of a task force to improve the coverage of women's basketball
  2. I think a different approach would be better (followed by alternative).--SPhilbrick(Talk) 11:57, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

I agree a task force is a much better route to take than a separate WikiProject. My concern is what you were thinking about college women's basketball, whose parent WikiProjects should be WP College Basketball and WP Women's Sport (not the umbrella WP Basketball). Hundreds of categories, images and articles pertaining to college women's basketball are already tagged with {{WikiProject College basketball}}, and I believe they should continue to be tagged as such. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:40, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

While I am very interested in college women's basketball, my interest, and goals for the task force, are broader than that. For example, I've edited:
all of which would be of interest to a women's basketball task force, but are not college basketball articles. I am not proposing a new tag. I'd like a central place for editors to discuss these articles, but do not feel the need to mark territory. The nice thing about a task force is that it can be sponsored my multiple Wikiprojects. Rikster2 suggested WP College Basketball, and I plan to check with that project as well to see if it would make sense to be a task force of that project.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 13:15, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Basketball/Women's basketball has been created. I haven't yet added it to the Wikiproject pages, but will do that, however, I wanted to let you know it exists, and has some suggested tasks.SPhilbrick(Talk) 19:14, 10 August 2013 (UTC)

How about a trade?

Hey, I thought of something. How about I commit to doing the last 2 SoCon POYs and in return you create two articles that fill in national champ templates (full list of redlinks on my user page)? This might help keep it interesting. Rikster2 (talk) 14:48, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok I'll do that. Mixing it up never hurt, maybe once I see different navboxes at the bottom of the screen I'll get re-invigorated (seeing the SoCon navbox over and over again began to feel unrewarding). Jrcla2 (talk) 16:20, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
Done and done. You even picked up an extra beyond the "deal." Feel free to knock out any others that interest you - I was on a roll for awhile then moved to other stuff. As for CPOY's - maybe we should take care of the 2012 list like we did the 2013 group. The advantage for the more recent ones is that it is easier to track their pro careers this early (but gets tougher the longer they are out of school). Also mixes up the conferences a little. I have some things going on and won't be able to edit much the next week, though. Rikster2 (talk) 11:50, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
It feels good to finish off another navbox. Believe it or not, you and I are slowly wrapping these up (CPOYs, Haggerty, All-Americans, Helms POY, etc.). Re: 2012 guys – I have some specific players in mind who aren't 2012 CPOYs that I want to get to, but how about every second or third new article I create will be 2012? And whatever I haven't done, you can pick from the remaining guys. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:19, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
Whatever you want, this stuff should be fun. We'll get to it. I also have been trying to finish off the redlinks on the individual All-America teams on those pages. I realized there are only three players redlinked from present back to 1967 (Charles Cleveland of Alabama, Rich Yunkus of Georgia Tech and Allan Hornyak of Ohio State). Otherwise, articles are all blue back to 1976. This doesn't include the honorable mentions, but the CPOY effort gets a lot of those too. Rikster2 (talk) 13:23, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
Speaking of the individual All-America teams, I think we ought to remove redundant blue links in those whenever we feel motivated. I did that to the 1973 article yesterday, for example. It looks a lot better and it makes it infinitely easier to see certain players, like Hornyak, who the AP and USBWA passed on but the NABC and UPI didn't. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:31, 2 August 2013 (UTC)
Just noticed that 1997 NCAA Men's Basketball All-Americans has Andre Woolridge redlinked...apparently deleted in April 2013 due to copyright infringement. Ugh. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:36, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Got it. For some reason, that page has been created twice. Zagalejo^^^ 00:05, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks Zag! Jrcla2 (talk) 12:02, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

NEC Standings: team names

Hi Jrcla2, so the name for St. Francis (NY) has been changed to St. Francis Brooklyn. In the 2013-2013 Standings I included a reference which shows the School's wish to have its brand be St. Francis Brooklyn and not St. Francis (NY). The article is in this link St. Francis Brooklyn. Additionally Long Island, should probably be LIU Brooklyn. If you look at the ESPN standings that is how it is displayed, also you will notice there that the St. Francis Brand has not been changed yet.

I think they are changing these names only to reflect the movement of the Nets to Brooklyn. So they are trying to capitalize on that, maybe?

Best --El Mayimbe (talk) 15:49, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Time and again WikiProjects College basketball, football, and baseball have had to tell people that it's not what the school wants to be known as (what if St. Francis decided to brand themselves as Pirates University, albeit unofficially? We wouldn't change it to that); it's what the major, independent news sources refer to them by. And right now, they are still called St. Francis (NY) per ESPN and Yahoo! Sports. Long Island might have to be changed to LIU Brooklyn per those sources, but I'd still open it up to discussion at WT:CBBALL before making sweeping changes. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:35, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
I hear you, but this is official (see reference). Both Schools have changed their brands and brands change over time. To be quite frank both are small conference teams which ESPN and Yahoo don't even cover that much. I recall that espn had the wrong logo for LIU for the longest time and I wrote to them to have it changed, which they did. Point is both should be changed; SFC to St. Francis Brooklyn and LIU to LIU Brooklyn. These are official changes by the schools, not what people are calling them. With that in mind, do as you like, don't care that much.--El Mayimbe (talk) 23:53, 6 August 2013 (UTC)
Jrcla2 is right. While an official chnage my school carries a little more weight (IMO) than a random newspaper decidign to chnage what it calls a team, Wikipedia is deliberately a follower, not a leader. Until and unless the RSs start using the new term, we'll continue the old one. As an aside, I happen to know one of the players on the Saint Francis team, so I'm interested in following the change.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 16:04, 9 September 2013 (UTC)
Well its "official", St. Francis (NY) is now St. Francis Brooklyn. Please see ESPN.com. I changed the NEC standings to reflect these changes. I also changed LIU. Best, --El Mayimbe (talk) 06:16, 11 September 2013 (UTC)
You're right. Time for change. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:28, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Article

Hi Jrcla2, sorry to bother you if I am. I am going to request National Hardwood Lumber Association‎ for deletion and put it on article wizard for approval. Can you delete it?

thanks Robert (talk) 05:47, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Basketball infobox

Awhile back I proposed creating a new college basketball player infobox to move away from Template:Infobox NCAA athlete as it is clunky and not that aesthetically pleasing. College football has done this, and their box looks a lot nicer. In the ensuing discussion, Bagumba had an interesting idea to actually move to Template:infobox basketball biography (with some modifications). The advantage there is that it would eliminate converting infoboxes after a player completes their eligibility, but I am sure there are other issues to consider. How do you feel about moving away from NCAA athlete (either to basketball biography or a new box altogether)? In the discussion, I suggested that we move to basketball biography for any non-current college player, regardless of if they play pro ball or not (see Charles Cleveland for an example of one who never played pro ball). I like this because it still captures all the relevant college data, plus draft history, etc. I am thinking about going back and coverting some of my old All-American player articles this way and wanted to see if it is a direction you'd agree with as well. Rikster2 (talk) 14:04, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

I do agree that Infobox NCAA Athlete is a dated, clunky mess. I'd be more for merging college players into Infobox Basketball Biography than creating a new one altogether. Bagumba's logic sounds good to me - when they stop playing college ball, regardless of a professional career or not, their infobox would have to be converted to Infobox Basketball Biography anyway, so we might as well eliminate that extra step from the onset. The only additional parameter I'd see needing to be added is Class. I think Major is irrelevant, and all of the other info can already be found in the current bball player infobox. I might go back to articles I've created over the years and do some infobox conversions as well. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:13, 15 August 2013 (UTC)

Nomination of Kevin Barker for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Kevin Barker is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kevin Barker until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion template from the top of the article. WisconsinBoyClevelandRocks228844 (talk) 13:24, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry for this; I will have to read it next time. WisconsinBoyClevelandRocks228844 (talk) 13:35, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
Yeah no shit. It's called WP:BEFORE. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:36, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
Is this A PERSONAL ATTACK!?! WisconsinBoyClevelandRocks228844 (talk) 15:53, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
You know what, I'm not giving you any credit for your profanity! You know better than that! I don't know what's coming to your mind but you need to stop the personal attack and be serious! Wikipedia cannot tolerate personal attacks and you know the rules and so do I! WisconsinBoyClevelandRocks228844 (talk) 15:58, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
Besides, I am leaving Wikipedia for good as an autoconformed user and I have templates on my talk page, STAY OFF MY TALK PAGE AND DO NOT POST MESSAGES ON IT!!!!! PERIOD!!!!! WisconsinBoyClevelandRocks228844 (talk) 21:02, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
Your comment was wrong and insolent. You either say something nice or shut up! WisconsinBoyClevelandRocks228844 (talk) 16:08, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

Talkback

Hello, Jrcla2. You have new messages at Bagumba's talk page.
Message added 23:36, 25 August 2013 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

—Bagumba (talk) 23:36, 25 August 2013 (UTC)

Category

In FC Barcelona Bàsquet, the page is in the category Basketball teams in Spain, while the category FC Barcelona Bàsquet is in it as well. Articles like Houston Rockets and other NBA teams have the same. It makes it easier to find a team because you don't have to search in two lists. So what is the problem? --Harryhurry (talk) 13:28, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

That's because nobody's properly categorized them yet. Using other examples to support doing it wrongly is easily countered by looking at Category:Philadelphia 76ers, Category:San Diego Padres, Category:William & Mary Tribe football, etc. Over-categorization is rampant on Wikipedia and some of us regular basketball editors fix it whenever we see it. If I happened to have seen FC Barcelona Bàsquet or Houston Rockets, I'd have fixed it. Again: WP:CAT. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:13, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
Also, not that it matters, but the Houston Rockets was actually a bad example. The Houston Rockets article was not in Category:Basketball teams in Texas, but Category:Houston Rockets is, so it was already categorized correctly. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:16, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
I meant Category:National Basketball Association teams. But i'm fine with it if it is the right way to categorize, I just didn't saw it before on any other page. --Harryhurry (talk) 18:51, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Kellen McCoy coaching display

I have no problem with your edit. I have seen mascot used to have the college match the pro teams coached in cases where someone has done both, but I have also seen it the way you changed it to and with the college name spelled out (see Steve Clifford). Truth is, the community hasn't really discussed these cases since the coach fields were added. At some point, we probably need to figure that out, but I like the way you edited these just fine. Rikster2 (talk) 15:29, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Yeah eventually it'll be discussed. Right now I prefer the non-mascot way, but it's irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. I'd rather just make sure the infoboxes are standardized. Jrcla2 (talk) 16:10, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
Ditto Rikster2 (talk) 19:44, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Revert?

What is the thinking behind this. I added that cat to a number of pages, so if it doesn't belong, there are a number of places to consider.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 14:38, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

I see you responded elsewhere, I'll follow up there.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 14:39, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Please weigh in on proposal to move to Infobox:basketball biography for college players

FYI

There is an ongoing discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College Basketball#Proposal to migrate men's college basketball players and coaches to Template:Infobox basketball biography. Please weigh in and help achieve consensus on this matter. Thanks! Rikster2 (talk) 13:36, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Been meaning to weigh in, will get to that today. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:49, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Clyde Mayes

Hi, just curious, do you know where the discussions have taken place? Thanks.Hoops gza (talk) 16:05, 15 September 2013 (UTC)

User:Namiba can explain better than me why that's not an appropriate category for most players. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:37, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Joe Spinks

Joe Spinks is finished. --Harryhurry (talk) 17:46, 27 September 2013 (UTC)

Input Requested - NBA Head Coaches/templates

There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Basketball Association/Archive 23#NBA Coaches/Franchise template to try to achieve some consensus around how NBA franchise head coaches are displayed in templates. As an experienced WP:NBA editor, your opinion is requested. Thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 20:05, 30 September 2013 (UTC)

Statsheet.com

Based on your message on my Talk page, I made another request to "un-blacklist" this site. If you agree that this should happen, please add your support/opinion to the discussion at MediaWiki talk:Spam-blacklist#StatSheet.com. Thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 12:49, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Ohio Valley Conference Standings

Because of subsequent edits, I cannot tell when you or Bsuorangecrush changed the name, but I created the page as "Template:2013–14 Ohio Valley Conference men's basketball standings", which is not only the correct name, but is the name that has been used in the past. As you said, know why you are reverting something. GWFrog (talk) 13:50, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

If you knew that was the name used in the past (as shown by all template titles prior to this season's in Category:Ohio Valley Conference men's basketball standings templates), then why did you name this year's "2013–14 OVC men's basketball standings"? You never created the template as "Template:2013–14 Ohio Valley Conference men's basketball standings" – when you type in that exact phrase in the search bar, it comes up as an uncreated red link. Also, the template's edit history does not show any page moves. Makes little sense. By reverting my change, you're making it impossible to edit the template by clicking on the "E" in the top corner because that link edits directly to the template, as defined by {{CBB Standings Start|2013–14 OVC men's basketball standings}} in the top of the coding. Jrcla2 (talk) 15:22, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Houston Cougars men's basketball retired number navbox

Template:Houston Cougars men's basketball retired number navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. Frietjes (talk) 19:39, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

Tony Mitchell (basketball, born 1992)

I know you created Tony Mitchell (basketball, born 1992). I was wondering if you think it is relevant to include that this year's class of rookies voted him far and away the most athletic rookie in the class.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:29, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

I think it's relevant since it gives the reader a more detailed view of why he is a special player. That's why I included the anonymous Sun Belt coach's quote, "[He] is the most athletic guy in college basketball, bar none. Rebounds as good as anyone. He's a freak." Please add the rookies' survey result if you feel inclined. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:28, 14 October 2013 (UTC)

Louisiana–Lafayette Ragin' Cajuns football

An editor moved the Louisiana–Lafayette Ragin' Cajuns football article to Louisiana Ragin' Cajuns football a couple days ago without any discussion even though consensus had been reached in favor of Louisiana–Lafayette as recently as June 2013. I was able to revert most of his edits, but for some reason it's not allowing me to move the main football article back to where it should be. I tried posting it on the move request page, but a bot has deleted it twice. Would you please help revert the Louisiana Ragin' Cajuns football page back to Louisiana–Lafayette Ragin' Cajuns football? Thank you. Treydavis3 (talk) 22:44, 20 October 2013 (UTC)

I'm not an admin so I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to make that move. Perhaps asking User:Cbl62 would be better, he's an admin who works on a lot of college football articles. Jrcla2 (talk) 03:24, 21 October 2013 (UTC)
I wrote a message on his talk page a few weeks ago, but he hasn't been active since Oct. 20. The page needs to be moved back but still hasn't. Do you have any more suggestions? Thanks. Treydavis3 (talk) 06:05, 16 November 2013 (UTC)

NBA coach navboxes

Jrcla2, thanks for the recognition with that barnstar. I had been aiming to tackle the NBA coach navboxes for some time, so when Rikster kicked off the effort, I jumped on it. The NBA team navboxes still need a lot of work. All the best, Jweiss11 (talk) 00:46, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

They definitely do. It's on my "sometime I'll get to it" list. I'd prefer to tackle the college basketball navboxes to make them more like the CFB ones so there's consistency. Right now it's a free-for-all with they way CBB team navboxes are laid out. Jrcla2 (talk) 12:23, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

Fab Five template

Can you explain this edit None of the content of the Fab Five template remains on the revised template? You essentially TFDed a template without explaination.--TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:39, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

It's an unnecessary navbox. The Fab Five is part of Michigan basketball's history and lore, but to create a whole navbox in itself is navbox creep. Season records, NCAA tournament seeds, NCAA tournament links...come on, is any of that needed? The point of a navbox is to navigate related topics in an easy-to-read, succinct manner. {{Michigan Wolverines men's basketball navbox}} now has links to the Fab Five, the scandal, and the documentary. If someone wants more information on any of those topics, they can go read the articles. Jrcla2 (talk) 18:37, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Books and Bytes: The Wikipedia Library Newsletter

Books and Bytes

Volume 1, Issue 1, October 2013

by The Interior (talk · contribs), Ocaasi (talk · contribs)

Greetings Wikipedia Library members! Welcome to the inaugural edition of Books and Bytes, TWL’s monthly newsletter. We're sending you the first edition of this opt-in newsletter, because you signed up, or applied for a free research account: HighBeam, Credo, Questia, JSTOR, or Cochrane. To receive future updates of Books and Bytes, please add your name to the subscriber's list. There's lots of news this month for the Wikipedia Library, including new accounts, upcoming events, and new ways to get involved...

New positions: Sign up to be a Wikipedia Visiting Scholar, or a Volunteer Wikipedia Librarian

Wikipedia Loves Libraries: Off to a roaring start this fall in the United States: 29 events are planned or have been hosted.

New subscription donations: Cochrane round 2; HighBeam round 8; Questia round 4... Can we partner with NY Times and Lexis-Nexis??

New ideas: OCLC innovations in the works; VisualEditor Reference Dialog Workshop; a photo contest idea emerges

News from the library world: Wikipedian joins the National Archives full time; the Getty Museum releases 4,500 images; CERN goes CC-BY

Announcing WikiProject Open: WikiProject Open kicked off in October, with several brainstorming and co-working sessions

New ways to get involved: Visiting scholar requirements; subject guides; room for library expansion and exploration

Read the full newsletter


Thanks for reading! All future newsletters will be opt-in only. Have an item for the next issue? Leave a note for the editor on the Suggestions page. --The Interior 21:36, 27 October 2013 (UTC)

Potential statsheet.com alternative

This new website launched this week: bbpassport.com. It has game results back to the 1983–84 season. Regardless of whether we use it on Wikipedia, it's a very cool tool to log NCAA and NBA games you've been to. — X96lee15 (talk) 13:25, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up. I'll check that out. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:50, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Colonial Athletic Association rivalry navbox

Template:Colonial Athletic Association rivalry navbox has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for discussion page. GoingBatty (talk) 02:08, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

College basketball team navbox

Jrcla2, nice work standardizing all those college basketball team navboxes. I created a new category, Category:NCAA Division I men's basketball team navigational boxes, to group all these. Also tweaked some of the color schemes simply and standardize them. Thanks for all your effort here. Jweiss11 (talk) 02:58, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. However, I think you unintentionally created a redundant category. You created Category:American college basketball team navigational boxes except that Category:American college basketball navigational boxes by team already existed and does the same purpose. I've altered Category:NCAA Division I men's basketball team navigational boxes's parent category. I want to CfD "Category:American college basketball team navigational boxes" unless you are willing to add "{{userreq}}" to it so an admin can swiftly delete it. I appreciate the effort, but I think you made the cat trees more confusing. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:08, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
Jrcla2, this was intentional and it's not redundant. The purpose of Category:American college men's basketball navigational boxes by team is to roll up all the categories that roll up each program's various navboxes. The purpose of Category:American college basketball team navigational boxes is to roll up just the team (i.e. program overview) navboxes themselves. We have the same structure at: Category:American college football navigational boxes. Thanks, Jweiss11 (talk) 14:43, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
I'm a prolific college basketball editor and even I didn't understand that. How the hell could a normal Wikipedia reader possibly know that distinction? I give it a 99.99% chance they don't. Also, just because the college football project does it =/= it's correct. I think the college football project is wrong too, then. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:46, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
This seems fairly intuitive. And, I'm not arguing that because the college football project does it, it's correct. I'm arguing the converse: that because it's correct, the college football project does it. Also, the categories rolling up templates are not going to be used often by casual Wikipedia readers anyway. They are going to to be used typically by regular editors for maintenance. If you want to get some input from others at a WikiProject talk page, that makes sense. I see your point about the Michigan category sort key. Be advised though that Michigan Wolverines is sorted after Michigan State Spartans in hundreds of places across college basketball and college football, e.g. Category:2011–12 Big Ten Conference men's basketball season, Category:NCAA Division I men's basketball coach navigational boxes, Category:2013 Big Ten Conference football season, Category:NCAA Division I FBS team navigational boxes. Jweiss11 (talk) 14:55, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
We have the same issue with Arizona Wildcats and Arizona State Sun Devils as well. Jweiss11 (talk) 17:17, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

To which I might add the question, why did you put a Georgetown Hoya nav template and category on a public high school in DC? John from Idegon (talk) 05:27, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

John from Idegon, the Georgetown Hoyas played at the school between 1929 and 1943: see http://www.hoyabasketball.com/history/arenas.htm. Jweiss11 (talk) 06:36, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
Rather than just sticking the navbox on the article, don't you think adding some referenced content to the article might be appropriate? Georgetown is not mentioned in the article anywhere, nor is the gym referred to as "Tech Gymnasium" anywhere in the article. It is pretty mysterious to someone not giving a damn about the hoyas and simply interested in the high school and the content and category you have added add nothing useful to the article you added it to. Does that seem right to you? John from Idegon (talk) 07:13, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
"...you have added add nothing useful to the article you added it to." I couldn't begin to tell you what is right about that sentence. Jrcla2 (talk) 14:00, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
Please stop creating and inserting the navboxes until a consensus can be reached on a standardized baseline suggestion. Further, most of your navboxes do not adhere to WP:NAV, particularly WP:EXISTING. CrazyPaco (talk) 05:47, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Disambiguation page redirects to athletic programs

Wouldn't it make more sense, if someone is searching for Green Wave or THundering Herd, to provide a link that takes them to the actual athletic programs pages, instead of to the college main page? Even if the college's main page wikilink has to stay the same, surely there's a better way to format that would provide a quick way to get a user where they're going, no?

I understand that you spend a lot a of time on these college athletics pages, but that certainly doesn't mean you have to just revert without explanation anyone else's contributions. Please reconsider. Thanks. Rockypedia (talk) 14:58, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

2012 Conference Players of the Year

Only 2 left: Paul Crosby and Darryl Partin - want to split them up? Rikster2 (talk) 04:31, 17 November 2013 (UTC)

I'll take Partin. Jrcla2 (talk) 17:55, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
Crosby's done. Rikster2 (talk) 02:48, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
I'll try to get to Partin when my brain is more ready to tackle writing an article. Recently I've enjoyed making team navboxes because it's formulaic and I don't have to overthink anything while making them. Jrcla2 (talk) 04:20, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

NIT championships are not national championships.

Please stop reverting my edits which are correcting historically inaccurate information. You are not providing any explanation as to why. Please refer to article on the National Invitational Tournament for relevant sources, or discuss on the talk page on the College Basketball Project or individual template talk pages. Thank you.

The relevant sections of the NIT article are below.

The Helms Athletic Foundation retroactively selected the NIT champion as its national champion for 1938 (Temple), and chose the NIT champion over the NCAA champion once, in 1939 (Long Island).[1] More recently, the mathematically based Premo-Poretta Power Poll published in the ESPN College Basketball Encyclopedia retroactively ranked teams for each season prior to 1949, with the NIT champion finishing ahead of the NCAA champion in 1939 and 1941.[2] Between 1939 and 1950, when teams could compete in both tournaments, only DePaul (1945),[3] Utah (1947),[4] and San Francisco (1949)[5] claim or celebrate national championships for their teams based solely on an NIT championship,[6][7][8][9] although Long Island recognizes its selection as the 1939 national champion by the Helms Athletic Foundation.[10]

In 1950, the NCAA ruled that no team could compete in both tournaments, in effect indicating that if a team were eligible for the NCAA tournament, it had better play in it.[11] Since then, the NCAA tournament has clearly been the major one, with conference champions and the majority of the top-ranked teams participating in it. Not until 1951, when the NCAA expanded to 16 teams, did the numbers of unique teams in the two annual tournaments exceed 19.

  1. ^ "Rauzulu's Street: Helms Foundation NCAA Division I Champions". Retrieved 2009-03-05.
  2. ^ ESPN, ed. (2009). ESPN College Basketball Encyclopedia: The Complete History of the Men's Game. New York, NY: ESPN Books. pp. 549–586. ISBN 978-0-345-51392-2.
  3. ^ Greenwell, Greg (2012). 2012-13 DePaul Basketball. DePaul Athletics Communication Department. p. 99. Retrieved April 7, 2013.
  4. ^ Harris, Kyle (2012). 2012-13 Utah Basketball Media Guide (PDF). University of Utah Athletic Communications Office. p. 87. Retrieved April 7, 2013.
  5. ^ "National Championships". University of San Francisco. August 8, 2012. Retrieved April 7, 2013.
  6. ^ Swan, Joe; Messerly, Bryan, eds. (2012). 2012-13 WVU Men's Basketball Guide. West Virginia University Department of Intercollegiate Athletics. Retrieved April 7, 2013.
  7. ^ Fratto, Mark (2010). 2010-11 St. John's Men's Basketball Media Guide (PDF). St. John's Athletic Communications. Retrieved April 7, 2013.
  8. ^ Caldwell, Janiece; Combs, Alex; Hayden, John; Moore, Deb (2012). 2012-13 Kentucky Basketball Fact Book (PDF). University of Kentucky Athletics Department. Retrieved April 7, 2013.
  9. ^ Saint Louis University Men's Basketball History & Records Book (PDF). Saint Louis University Athletics. 2013. Retrieved April 7, 2013.
  10. ^ Lobacz, Dan (2012). LIU Brooklyn Basketball 2012-13 Records Book (PDF). LIU Athletics Media Relations. p. 38. Retrieved April 7, 2013.
  11. ^ Cite error: The named reference Bradley was invoked but never defined (see the help page).

NCAA blocks

I don't like the idea of disallowing known notable achievements. I felt that I made it clear that the achievement was not officially recognized, and I don't see why we cannot include unofficial achievements on the same page with official ones.Hoops gza (talk) 20:32, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

I believe that blocks and other statistics were officially recorded among many conferences (such as the Southwest Conference, to which Houston belonged) before 1985-86, it's just that the entire NCAA started tracking blocks in 1985-86. As long as I can provide a reliable source, I see no reason why I cannot start a separate list on the same page.Hoops gza (talk) 20:40, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

I hope all is well. I assume that you forgot to respond to this subject.Hoops gza (talk) 18:47, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

There needs to be a cut-off, otherwise every occurrence of an unofficial statistic can keep being plugged in. The way it's set up now has a clear, unambiguous threshold to qualify for inclusion, which is quite distinctly what the NCAA officially recognizes. Jrcla2 (talk) 19:16, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Fine. However, since Olajuwon blocked an incredible 16 shots which would have tied the official record, I would like to mention this occurrence in the lead. I doubt that I will find many if any other instances like this.Hoops gza (talk) 19:59, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

I think a mention of his record-tying 16 blocks in the pre-official NCAA era is an okay thing to note in the lead. Jrcla2 (talk) 21:14, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

Take a look at this article

Chris Roupas. Do you think it is legit? I think it might be a well fleshed out article of a non-notable person and maybe bogus altogether. All the on line references seem to track back to a blog written by the guy who created the article. Rikster2 (talk) 21:07, 3 December 2013 (UTC)

This is really tough to tell. If it is a hoax, it's one of the best ones I've seen. I'm suspicious he's notable and that any of this is real. The fact that he (supposedly) only played one season is convenient for the author because it makes finding sources a lot more difficult...lying and saying someone played 10 seasons in a Greek top league is very easy to determine whether that's a fabrication. I'll look into this further today to see if I come up with anything. We might want to ping the guys at WP:CFB who uncovered the Ohio State football hoax a while back if we can't figure it out ourselves. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:45, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
I've look it over and I still can't figure it out. It could probably be deleted at a full AfD discussion because its references are not reliable (and circular). I'm worried we'd be deleting a well-fleshed article on an actually notable person. Jrcla2 (talk) 16:39, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Elon Phoenix football coach navbox

Let me know if you ever get to filling in redlinks at Template:Elon Phoenix football coach navbox - I'll be able to add photos and possible DOBs. Thanks! – Connormah (talk) 02:17, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

If I get to them I'll let you know. Thanks for the Willard Witte photo and full DOB/DOD. Jrcla2 (talk) 13:47, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Joe Bruin retro photo wanted

Hi. I am asking those who might have a photo of Joe Bruin from the 1980's or early 1990's for the article Joe Bruin to contribute. I began this article, but it is difficult to find a photo with free use or public domain status. Thanks in advance! Bruinfan12 (talk) 13:06, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

2011–12 Lourdes Gray Wolves women's basketball team

I have reverted your redirecting of the 2011–12 Lourdes Gray Wolves women's basketball team. If you want to blank the page, please put it up for deletion.--SportsMaster (talk) 14:33, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

The Wikipedia Library Survey

As a subscriber to one of The Wikipedia Library's programs, we'd like to hear your thoughts about future donations and project activities in this brief survey. Thanks and cheers, Ocaasi t | c 15:44, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Southwestern Athletic Conference logo.jpg

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Thanks for uploading File:Southwestern Athletic Conference logo.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. Corkythehornetfan (talk) 01:22, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

Will Miller (therapist)

Thanks for the correction on the article Will Miller (therapist). I didn't know about that. Happy holidays! --SportsMaster (talk) 15:36, 21 December 2013 (UTC)

What is required to get a sock puppet case investigated?

And are they usually successful? I have a strong suspicion about some sock puppet activity on a somewhat obscure Australian player named Chris Goulding and would like to get it checked out. But if it can't be ferreted out looking at IPs/etc. it probably isn't worth pursuing. Thanks. Rikster2 (talk) 03:11, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Of the SPIs I've opened or been closely involved with, I'd say 90%+ of them have resulted in an administrator blocking the suspected sockpuppets on WP:DUCK alone. Many of them, if a strong enough case is presented, have resulted in a CheckUser being performed (although your case has to be both compelling with evidence and reasonable to request that someone's identity be compromised in order to look for lurkers). I am assuming that you ask me this because of the IP 101.119.30.139 who is most likely the "anonymous" version of User:2sc945. I agree that the edit summaries and articles of interest are close enough to warrant opening an SPI investigation if the disruptive editing continues, but I would be surprised if a Clerk performs a CheckUser. My guess is a patrolling admin would temporarily block the IP for a week, maybe two, to serve as a warning to stop the behavior. If you notice more registered users beginning to edit Chris Goulding that seem to align with these suspected sockpuppets, a CheckUser would be easy to request. Jrcla2 (talk) 04:02, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
There is another user and another IP - so 4 total. Thanks for the help. Rikster2 (talk) 04:17, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Re: Georgetown seasons

I was using categores and the project tag that I found in another article elsewhere, and I had not realized that the category names changed over time or that there was more than one WikiProject Basketball to choose from, so thanks for the tips! Now that I have learned about all this, I will do better. Mdnavman (talk) 01:04, 29 December 2013 (UTC)mdnavman

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