This is an archive of past discussions with User:John Cummings. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Please don't use HTML and CSS that's deprecated since the 1990s or outright invalid. That includes: the <center>...</center> element, the old HTML 4 attributes cellpadding and cellspacing, adding units to CSS values of 0, opening an element but not closing it, using tables for layout without marking them with role="presentation", adding empty table rows, using nonsensical height statements, giving multi-word font names without quoting them, using <p>...</p> for things that are not prose paragraphs, not closing CSS declarations with ;, and using pixel-based sizes for any text. Half of that is problematic for accessibility and half of it is just broken. This quick patch fixed all these problems (as well as generally unreadable CSS) at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Airports#Wikipedia:Sandbox organiser, but I get the feeling you copy-pasted that announcement to a bunch of other places. Even the layout table could be replaced, though that takes a bit more CSS and work. I just looked at the Wikipedia:Sandbox organiser page and it is riddled with similar problems, which does not bode well if it's intended to deploy similar code in a zillion userspaces. This needs to get repaired ASAP. Try using any of the readily available HTML+CSS validators, even after you're pretty sure it's all in proper order.
For more on WP's migration to HTML 5, and how to help, as well as tips for centering complex markup like tables ({{center}} works for most things, but not those), see WP:LINT and WP:HTML5. Specific tips: tables have border-collapse: separate; by default. They also default to padding: 0; on cells, and text-align: left; on cell content, plus left alignment of the table itself (in LtR languages). To get the CSS equivalent of cellspacing="0", just do border-collapse: collapse;. If you need actual cell spacing, this requires border-collapse: separate; (which, being the default, you don't need to actually specify, unless to override an intervening stylesheet) and some specific (proportional not pixel-based) value: border-spacing: 0.1em; or whatever. HTML's old cellpadding="10" which was deprecated in HTML 4.1 and removed in HTML 5, would literally translate to padding: 10px; applied to cells instead of the entire table (typically with a style sheet, not inline cell-by-cell CSS). But again don't use pixel-based values, so something like padding: 0.7em;. It's best to use em not % values, since the former is keyed to the size of the font (which vision-challenged editors will be adjusting, sometimes drastically) while the latter is dependent on the width of the viewport, which is generally irrelevant (and you don't want the table to look radically different if someone turns their phone/tablet sideways and gets a twice-as-wide viewport without changing the font size). Some elements for different kinds of things like major layout objects are best done relative to page width, though. You can use WP:TemplateStyles to stylesheet-ize stuff like this for things like announcement templates, and templates for Sandbox Organizer layout. The table element's align="center" attribute was also deprecated in HTML 4 and eliminated in HTML 5, so this has to be done with text-align: center; at the cell level. To center the entire table on the page (well, technically, within the div or other block in which it has been placed), give the table margin: auto;, or use margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto; if there is some need to do something with top and bottom margins. Visible borders now also have to be applied at the cell level as well as the table level.
Because the modern approach complicates things, and makes dealing with cells a hassle at a cell-by-cell level, you can see why TemplateStyles was introduced! You can just give your table a custom class, then use a declaration like table.SandboxOrganizerLayoutClass td { ... } to control all cells. It's important to use a class name that is likely to be unique, not anything that MediaWiki itself would use or some other user might pick.
While the HTML 3 elements and attributes are presently accepted by MediaWiki, there is no guarantee this will continue indefinitely, nor even any guarantee that future browsers will support it unless found with a doctype declaration of HTML 4.01 / XHTML 1.1 or earlier (that will really be up to each browser maker).
PS: The Sandbox Organizer idea is a good one, and I plan to use it, when it's in usable condition. I have a sprawling pile-up of code sandboxes, and article and essay drafts, so this will probably come in handy. — SMcCandlish☏¢ 😼 14:20, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
Hi SMcCandlish thanks very much for your extensive suggestions and explanation, I'm glad you find the tool useful :) Unfortunately I'm not a programmer so don't understand how to implement your suggestions. I put together the tool based on copying code from other pages through a lot of trial and error. If you are able please change the code on Wikipedia:Sandbox organiser/preload, you clearly have a good understand of which parts need updating. What I really like about how its implemented is if someone comes and improves the code people can just wipe their /sandbox and copy in the new code in and its up to date. Also please do let me know if you end up customising your own version, I feel like there are probably several use cases for it and potentially there could by different versions e.g article writer, programmer, admin etc.
Okey-dokey. Not sure when I'll get to it (already running out of steam today, and I'm only half-way through my pings and other "alerts"). If I don't get to it within a week, drop me a line. It's the kind of stuff I can plough through, but it will take several hours, including testing. — SMcCandlish☏¢ 😼 20:15, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
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I've been thinking about this for quite some time, but even with the improvements I was unable to find any examples of significant, non-routine, and biographical coverage that would lend to notability for this person - or even for the execution. The community may feel differently, but I figured it's as good a time as any to get a clear consensus through an AfD as opposed to continuing to float the "well maybe it's not notable" comment on the talk page repeatedly. -bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez (User/say hi!) 13:04, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
Possible article request?
Hello. Good job on creating the Quintin Jones (prisoner) page. I don't know if you take article requests but if you are interested in this subject I think a page that desperately needs to be created is one for Julius Jones (probably would have to be named Julius Jones (prisoner) for the time being). Julius Jones is an African-American man who is currently on death row in Oklahoma who is likely innocent. The case has received international coverage so it's definitely notable enough for Wikipedia. If you are interested please let me know I think you would be interested in the case if you look into it and watch the documentary The Last Defense (TV series) which highlights the problems with the case and possible racial biasness. Once again good job on the Quintin Jones page, please keep it up. Inexpiable (talk) 19:11, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
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Hi. I see in a recent addition to World Intellectual Property Organization you included material from a webpage that is available under a compatible Creative Commons Licence. That's okay, but you have to give attribution so that our readers are made aware that you copied the prose rather than wrote it yourself. It's also required under the terms of the license. I've added the attribution for this particular instance. Please make sure that you follow this licensing requirement when copying from compatibly-licensed material in the future. — Diannaa (talk) 13:00, 20 July 2021 (UTC)
Sorry John, I found it. :) Women in Red has put together something of an address book but more a list to the various projects supporting women found on every Wikimedia platform. You can view that here. I was looking for information, initially, but I think we found everything we needed. If you have the time, please just look at the list and see if you notice anything missing that you are aware of that could be added to make the list more complete. Thanks again. --ARoseWolf14:15, 5 August 2021 (UTC)
Hey ARoseWolf, HerStory is missing, May Hachem's project, here are some links (this is not the same as wikiherstory, a WMF project:
I notice you are posting on some country talkpages about Science and technology sections. Is the selection of talk pages chosen based on a source that might inform on the due weight of such a topic? CMD (talk) 01:51, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
Hi Chipmunkdavis, not based on sources, just that the majority of country pages have them, it seems strange others do not when its extremely likely that there would be enough references e.g India. John Cummings (talk) 09:19, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
I ask in part as you are posting on some country talkpages, but not all. Variations in subsections between country articles are expected given different due weight the topic will have within each country's economy. The India article is particularly long as it is, although I note the main Science and technology in India is quite underdeveloped. CMD (talk) 09:45, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
Hi Chipmunkdavis I'm slowly working through all the country pages and haven't finished yet so haven't posted all the messages. My guess is that it hasn't been added due to weighting but just because no one has got round to it. I'm just offering people a suggestion to look into, I might post a central list of all the articles without them on a wiki project somewhere. I think there will be lots of references for the sections, including some already written open license text in publications like the UNESCO Science Report. John Cummings (talk) 10:38, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
The guess may be correct for some articles, but when it's also looking at good and featured articles it's probably a reasonable assumption the editors wrote with some reflection to the overall impression of sources. A better pointer for the no one has got round to it would be for actual articles, for which there is indeed a huge gap as indicated in the template below. CMD (talk) 14:06, 3 September 2021 (UTC)
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