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User talk:Guzman ramirez
Re:lista de palabras árabesI don't know if it is necesary to remove all the words that where driven to Spanish through other languages, or it would be better to explain it, say:
Perhaps the list would grow a loth, yet I don't know what's the best in wikipedia's interest. Having a list of 5,000 words seams like a lot of work, but technically is not too much for the wikipedia; see List of ZIP Codes in the United States, or List of postal districts in the United Kingdom (2,900 entries). Mariano(t/c) 07:53, 7 April 2006 (UTC) RE:Spanish words of Arabic OriginHi Guzman, I like to thank you too for doing an excellent job on that article. Also don't worry, after some time you will learn how to navigate and edit Wikipedia like a pro. Anyway my Arabic is limited but I will see what I can do. --Inahet 08:22, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
and save. More is explained here WP:R. --Inahet 06:47, 29 April 2006 (UTC) Hola/Salam Guzman, I am glad I could help. The system of translation that should be used is a very good question. It will make the topic alot more complex. I don't use any system. I just try to imitate the arabic sounds using latin letters as close as possible. I must say that alot of the words, I don't directly recognize. Thats why I need at least to know its meaning in english. Sometimes even that doesnt help! I dont have much time, but if you need some translation or have questions regarding arabic or whatever, just post them in my talk page, and I will respnd as fast as possible. jidan 16:22, 6 May 2006 (UTC) Hola Guzman. Thanks for the request. Actually, i had that in my mind. I will dedicate enough time for that once i am not so busy as i am lately. Cheers -- Szvest 20:27, 3 May 2006 (UTC) Wiki me up™ Confiused! Why is the listed repeated in two articles?Hi Guzman, Why are are the arabic-spanish words repeated in two articles, Arabic influence on the Spanish language and List of Spanish words of Arabic origin? Perhaps the first one should contain only the histroical background, while the latter the actual words? jidan 21:35, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
ThanksYou are right about Tariq. He would have counted as Andalusian had he stayed over for longer but traditionally it is understood he left for Damascus a few years after 711. Also, many thanks for adding the andalusian-bio-stub template to some more articles. Regards, Asterion talk to me 22:21, 9 May 2006 (UTC) Arabic topnyms in IberiaSorry I can't really help with transliterations since I don't know Arabic language and therefore can't transcribe without vowels diacritics, etc. Below is a list of transcriptions I have from other sources using UNCSGN romanization found here: Arabic_transliteration#Comparison_table. The names may not have Arabic roots and I have no way of knowing their accuracy. Some (e.g. مدريد [Madrīd]) are the modern Arabic forms. (Notes - H¸ is H with cedilla below, d¸ ... etc.) -- AjaxSmack 21:59, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
BananeHola Guzman. Gracias por el mensaje. Je pense que vous avez tout à fait raison car le site que je vous ai donné parraît un site peu important. Personnelement, je crois aussi que banane n'a pas de lien avec l'Arabe. Nos vemos y Saludos. -- Szvest 12:55, 15 June 2006 (UTC) Wiki me up™
Re:Spanish and ArabicI assume that there is a lot, I just learned recently that Arabic is the third biggest contributor of words (after Latin and English) to the Spanish language. There is some good information here regarding the "Spanish's Arab connection." But if you find adding the definitions without diffculty, then I guess there is no concern. Also, if you could suggest an English source, I can help in adding the etymologies. I can guess some of the etmyologies (e.g. adaraja probably come from the Arabic word aldaraja, pronounced ad-daraja, meaning the stair/step, the degree) but then I cannot confirm the accuracy, so it is important that we take the etmologies from reliable sources. --Inahet 23:33, 16 June 2006 (UTC) Hi Guzman I guess for this subject you cannot get a source better than the official dictionary of the Spanish language :). I wish I could understand Spanish so I can help in taking the etymologies. I do have a Spanish to English dictionary, and if it helps I can add the definitions and all you would have to do is add the etymologies and the other Spanish words of Arabic origin. I can understand that it is going to take quite some time to complete the list, but nevertheless you have done a great job so far. Also, thanks for the information, I found it very interesting and I know other users will find it too. Perhaps you can add that information to the article in the introduction? I don't know how to put the dots under the letters. Is this what you're asking for: ṣād (taken from here [1])? What you can do is add the special characters to your word processor "autocorrect" function, type the word in the proccessor, and then copy the word to your browser. If you have Microsoft Works, go to "Tools," to "AutoCorrect." A box opens up, paste the special character (e.g.ṣ) under "with" and whatever keys (e.g. s%) under "replace". So whenever you type s% it will automatically turn to ṣ. Copy the word with the special character to the Wikipedia editing box. For it to appear correctly on the article, you would have to place it the word or letter in this enabler: {{unicode|word or letter goes here}}. I'm sure there is a much easier way than this, but tell me if you find this method to be suitable. --Inahet 16:14, 17 June 2006 (UTC) Also, you don't have to follow such a complex transliteration system like the ISO 233. Most readers don't know what those symbols stand for anyways. You should make this easier on yourself, so I advise you not to get caught up in the minor details. Anyway, for a organized look to the list, I think we should agree on a single format, what do you think of this format:
#'''word''': definition. From ''word''. If the word has multiple definitions, than place a semi-colon after each definition. Also, would it be of any help if I added the definitions so that you have to only add the etymologies? --Inahet 04:30, 21 June 2006 (UTC) ; is semicolon. Also, I added a colon (:) to the format. I'm also having trouble finding the definitions in my dictionary, are you sure some of these words exist? Or maybe misspelled? For some, I found words that had almost the same spelling. For example, I couldn't find the word zurriaga but I did find zurriagar, which means horsewhip. But at this time, I will just add the definitions that I'm sure about. Here are a few definitions I found (I'm starting from the bottom up):
--Inahet 15:01, 21 June 2006 (UTC) What do you use an English-Arabic dictionary for? Have you studied Arabic? I ask because you know what shams letters are, so I'm assuming you know beyond the basic Arabic alphabet. Anyway, I'm sure I'm not of much help other than cleaning-up the list, but I'll see what I can do in regarding the etymologies :-). --Inahet I noticed that many of the Spanish words have almost the same spelling as their Arabic counterparts. For example, the word for "the remainder" is albaquia in Spanish and al-baqeeya or al-baqee in Arabic. So I was able to guess some of the etymologies [2] using this method :-). --Inahet 07:51, 22 June 2006 (UTC) I made some adjustments to the format model, see [3]. I have a question: should I remove the "from Arabic" and "from Andalusi Arabic" from each definition, or do you think they are necessary,and thus should be part of the format? --Inahet 15:26, 22 June 2006 (UTC) I also studied Arabic, then I gave up, and I have forgotten a lot as well. I can assume it's a difficult language to learn, but I had Arabic-speaking parents, so I had more ease in learning, just not the patience :-D. Also, the Arabic I speak is a Yemeni dialect, I don't know how close that is to what is known as "Classical Arabic," which I think is the Arabic dialect that had the most influence on the Spanish language...correct? I would think that the Yemeni dialect would be more influential since the majority of Arabs that migrated to North Africa (and elsewhere) were from Yemen. (See Bani Hassan). Anyway, I see what you mean regarding the mentioning of the dialect. I guess I will add that to the format. --Inahet 06:38, 23 June 2006 (UTC) I see what you mean in regarding Andalusi Arabic being a distinguishable dialect. And I took the etymology for albatross from the List of English words of Arabic origin. So should it be removed from there as well? --Inahet 06:33, 24 June 2006 (UTC) Hi Guzman, I was able to find the etymologies of some words at this Spanish web site http://etimologias.dechile.net. I written some out with the help of a Spanish-English dictionary, I probably got some information wrong, so if you have the chance, verify/edit/expand the information.
I will be adding more later. --Inahet 06:27, 26 June 2006 (UTC)
Also, no need to apologize, especially to me, keep at a pace comfortable for you, there is no pressure coming from here. --Inahet 05:40, 27 June 2006 (UTC) I was also thinking that :-). What I need to know now is how to pronounce each letter and word and I think I will be able to put together simple sentences. I notice that the syntax of the Spanish language is a bit different from the syntax of English. Unlike in English, the adjective is placed before the noun, right? For example, Spanish langauge is written as "lengua española," correct? Also, I just checked out Breve diccionario etimológico de la lengua española (1988 edition) by Guido Gomez de Silva. I was looking through the B section in the book and I noticed that it has only a fraction of the words that are listed here. But I think it is still useful since I like to do my work offline. --Inahet 21:57, 1 July 2006 (UTC) What a coincidence; I looked up the phrase "red car" in Spanish right before I submiting my previous post in order to verify that grammar rule I described. Weird, it came to both our minds :-D. I have a question about the article 'el', which language borrowed from which? Or is it just a mere coincidence that 'el' in both Arabic and Latin translates to 'the'? --Inahet 04:21, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi Guzman, here is the etymology for the word 'usted' taken from the book I have, I hope this helps: usted, pronombre que se usa para referirse a la persona a quien se habla si no se le tiene familiaridad, probablemente del árabe 'ustadh 'artesano experimentado; maestro; (como forma honorífica de tratamiento) Señor' (reforzado por el contacto con algunos descendientes anticuados del español vuestra merced [que tenían significado y sonido semejantes, como vuesa merced, vuesarced, voacé; vuesanced, vosancé], forma honorífica de tratamiento, de vuestra, femenino de vuestro 'que os pertenece' [véanse vuestro, °vos], + merced, tratamiento de cortesía [véanse merced, °mercado]). Vuestra merced había reemplazado vos, otra forma honorífica (singular) de tratamiento, durante los siglos XV Y XVI porque ultimo se habia empezado a usar para dirigirse a quien socialmente era inferior (compárese, por ejemplo Quijote, 1.51: "Finalmente con una no vista arrogancia llamava de vos a sus yguales y a los mismos que le conocían"). El árabe 'ustadh(o el español usted, documentado desde 1620) + alguna palabra que haya procedido de vuestra merced pueden haber originado formas anticuadas de tratamiento (diferentes de las que se indican arriba) como vosasted, vuesasted (documentadas en 1597). Nota: se dice "usted es" (como si usted fuera un pronombre de tercera persona de singular) porque se dice "vuestra merced es", "Vuestra Excelencia es". --Inahet 07:09, 5 July 2006 (UTC) The book is Breve diccionario etimológico de la lengua española (1988 edition) by Guido Gomez de Silva. Can you give me a brief translation of the above information, if you don't mind :). I think that it would be a good idea to create a section for disputed etymologies. --Inahet 22:13, 5 July 2006 (UTC) Oh, I know that Arabic contains a lot of loanwords from European and other languages, just to name a few: telefiziyun, telefoon, combuter, saykel meaning bicycle, probably derived from "cycle." There is one word that I think is a Yemeni American invention and that word is "silace" from "slices" and used in reference to sliced bread that is widely available in American markets. Yemeni Arabic is different from Lebanese, Syrian, Gulf, North African, etc. I think I'm the wrong person to ask, though, because I don't fully know or understand the differences myself, but what I can tell you is that Yemeni Arabic retains all the orginal pronunciations of Classical Arabic letters (except for jeem pronounced as geem), thus it is probably closer to MSA than most other Arabic dialects. Whereas other Arabic dialects are heavily influenced by the languages spoken before the introduction of Arabic to their area, and also heavily influenced by neighboring languages. I listed some Arabic letters as they are pronounced in different dialects: You can listen to the pronunication of the Arabic letters here http://www.ummah.com/arabic/arabicletters2.html
More is explained at Varieties of Arabic. Many Yemenis can understand Lebanese, Syrian, Gulf, Egyptian Arabic due to the popularity of these countries' television shows and music in Yemen, but the converse is not true. I don't think Somalian is an Arabic dialect, but Somalians do learn Arabic (I think classical Arabic) for religious purposes. --Inahet 16:34, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok thanks. I thought there might be some relationship between Yemeni Arabic and Somali due to geographical proximity and historical ties... Was it in Somalia where watching the World Cup was banned? I think I heard something about it on TV.... Poor Somalis. --Guzman ramirez 17:38, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I think I heard something about two Somalians shot for watching the World Cup. The situation there is extreme, probably more extreme than in Saudi Arabia, which is considered the most strict Islamic state, but even they don't ban the World Cup; actually, as you probably know, they participated in the World Cup. So, yeah, poor Somalians. --Inahet 17:46, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Poor Spaniards!! Well at least we have Nadal...--Guzman ramirez 19:27, 7 July 2006 (UTC) I have also not been able to contribute to the article, but I will soon. That is a good idea to invite others to contribute as well; with a few more helping hands we could probably finish the list within a few months! I am somewhat aware of what is happening in Beirut. I had assumed that of all cities in Lebanon and the rest of the Middle East, Beirut would be safe at this time, but I guess not. I really hope your friends are safe, and I hope the violence will end soon (or perhaps it has just begun :-S). --Inahet 21:07, 14 July 2006 (UTC) Does the word edrisi really mean horseradish tree (horse radishes don't grow on trees)? I retrieved the definition of the word edrisi from RAE and entered it into an online translator] and this was the result: 1. adj. Horseradish tree Abdala says itself of the descendants of Edris or Idris, founder of a great empire in Africa of the North during century VIII. Here is the original Spanish definition: 1. adj. Se dice de los descendientes de Edris o Idris ben Abdala, fundador de un gran imperio en África del Norte durante el siglo VIII. --Inahet 06:10, 15 July 2006 (UTC) Cool :-D. I'll add the new word to the list. --Inahet 19:57, 15 July 2006 (UTC) Oh, wait a minute, it is already in the list, so I didn't discover a new word after all. :-( --Inahet 20:00, 15 July 2006 (UTC) Bigote
Arabic influence on the Spanish languageHi!, I will have a look as soon as possible. I have a few rudiments of Arabic, and perhaps I could help, though I´m not a lingüist :-( Cheers! Una duda: respecto a la lista de palabras, ¿las estáis incorporando una a una o habéis usado alguna lista de la Real Academia. Estoy seguro de que ya existe algo así. Un saludo, --Garcilaso 09:14, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
¡Hola!, he incorporado alfajor, algoritmo, azahar, olé y La Sagra, y completado alcaucil y carmen. Me pasaré por ahí de cuando en cuando cuando me acuerde de otras. Por cierto, hay otros aspectos relativos a nuestra lengua que da pena ver en esta enciclopedia, como los artículos Spanish poetry y Spanish Literature, en las que he intentado mejorar algo las listas de autores, pero falta por escribir el artículo prácticamente entero. Un saludo, y ánimo.--Garcilaso 17:07, 15 July 2006 (UTC) QuestionHi Guzman, How are ya? I have a question, what is "ár. hisp"? I see this a lot in the etymologies at RAE. -Inahet 04:23, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
The image you reinserted is (A) non-encyclopedic, (B) suspect for authenticity, and (C) has been given a misleading, factually incorrect, deliberately POV caption. Please do not insert items like this that directly contradict WP:NPOV standards. RunedChozo 23:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Hi Guzman, Can you please have a look at Talk:Arabic influence on the Spanish language Jidan 00:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC) http://libro.uca.edu/ics/ics5.htm Random SmileyUser:Pedia-I/SmileyAward2 Jerry lavoie 07:33, 28 January 2007 (UTC) Latino (demonym)Hello! I disagree with your last edit of this article. Other users have expressed concern about the "appropriation" of the term away from Italians and other Latin Europeans, so they added that info, which is verifiable. SamEV 16:56, 3 November 2007 (UTC) Eastern dialectsWhat on earth means "there are no eastern dialects of Spanish" ? Maybe east of Madrid people are deaf and only use sign language ? Everybody speaks one dialect or another, therefore there must be eastern dialects, even if we might not have a name for them. In Aragon and Spanish-speaking Valencia there are words of Arabic origin not used elsewhere in Spain. --Jotamar (talk) 18:28, 17 November 2007 (UTC) It's nice that you have bothered to check my edits, but I'm afraid you're too zealous about your page (Arabic influence on the Spanish language). Now I even doubt that you're Spanish, as I had always thought. Both my edits in ole and ojalá are correct and pertinent, and I beg you to restore both of them. --Jotamar (talk) 11:58, 29 April 2008 (UTC) According to the Real Academia: http://buscon.rae.es/draeI/SrvltConsulta?TIPO_BUS=3&LEMA=ojalá In Spain we use the term in a variety of situations and there is no implication of something being unlikely to happen. Maybe you got that idea from Juan Luis Guerra's famous song "Ojalá que llueva café en el campo". :-) As for Olé I still consider Olé with the tilde to be the correct way of writing the word. "Ole" is simply a phonetic derivation of the word much as Jose is a derivation of the name José. Both are correct? I guess... Still, no reason to argue over such small things... --Guzman ramirez (talk) 21:58, 29 April 2008 (UTC) No reason to argue, but I still wonder where you're from. Even if you say "In Spain we use the term..." it's obvious that you don't have a native insight of the Spanish language. For example you don't know that olé does not exist in the spoken language. You should pay more attention to native speakers like me. --Jotamar (talk) 10:03, 30 April 2008 (UTC) Hi, |