This is an archive of past discussions with User:Gonnym. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Hi, sorry to bother you, but I think you've made it look as if Template:Middle-earth is being merged into Template:Arda Realms Age1, when you've rightly proposed the reverse. This has caused odd warnings to pop up on various articles such as Lord of the Rings. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:49, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Not a lot I can do. I used Twinkle on the Arda template, and it did the rest and the documentation at {{Tfm}} isn't helpful. Sorry I can't help more. --Gonnym (talk) 15:52, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
It would seem the 1990 is the more correct one, as the previous name was "The CBN Family Channel" according to the article. So better not to keep the redirect. I'll go over the links with AWB. So how do we move the page without creating the redirect but also fixing the links? --Gonnym (talk) 15:54, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
I can move the page without leaving the redirect, as a WP:Page mover. But, unfortunately, fixing all the incoming links is going to take another WP:AWB run. (Oops. Sorry. ) I'll move the redirect right now. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:59, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for the revert, without checking I thought the page was about the Oz television series, not the book-series characters. When one editor jumps to a conclusion it's good Wikipedia collaboration that another one is there to catch them. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:56, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
I had to double check the link to make sure of that myself, as such a glaring error in that guideline that I've looked at hundreds of time was very surprising. --Gonnym (talk) 12:44, 5 April 2020 (UTC)
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Regarding The Scouring of the Shire, its first sentence in the lead says "The Scouring of the Shire" is the penultimate chapter of the epic fantasy The Lord of the Rings by J. R. R. Tolkien., which is why it's placed under The Return of the King, being a part of it. If Wikipedia had an article about each chapter, then each one of them would be similarly placed here. In a similar fashion, the first line of The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen says The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen is a story within the Appendices of J. R. R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings. which is why it's placed under the The Lord of the Rings section. --Gonnym (talk) 09:16, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Wikitables
So, I'm looking at Filmography tables this morning, and all of a sudden, I notice that the cells in wikitables all have a gray background today, whereas before they all had white (or no?) background. I'm assuming that this is a mistake that somebody made in the code for 'wikitables' recently, but I have no idea where to look for this (or what to fix) – do you have an idea where the "code" for wikitables is stored? And/or, who to ask about this change?... Thanks. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:25, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
The cell backgrounds are definitely a gray color (at least, that's what I'm seeing), whereas they were white before. The new way is definitely worse, IMO. But this is certainly above my paygrade, and as I don't know how to do a Phab order, etc. Hopefully somebody with skills I don't have will figure out what change was made to Wikitables recently and fix this color issue... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 13:44, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
IB substing
Just to drop a note regarding your comment at TFDH, there isn't a guide to infobox substing because it's a pain in the arse. Unless you want every parameter of the IB to be subst in, you need to set up every parameter inside an {{#if:...}} param so that only the present params are substed over. I copied an example, the first half is the "not being subst"/"normal" code, and the second half is the "being subst" code. Bit of a faff. For IB animanga I'm just doing a parameter swap and redirecting, which involves a hell of a lot fewer nested #if statements and a lot less troubleshooting. Primefac (talk) 00:28, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Yeah that makes complete sense. I was trying to subset it myself and even after cleaning most of the code it still didn't work. Your idea was much better, thanks! --Gonnym (talk) 16:04, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
If you preview the article with that version you'll see that those articles use unsupported parameters, such as |season_list=. While removing that, I've also removed unused parameters, as a template shouldn't really be copied with empty parameters, just some general maintenance. --Gonnym (talk) 23:38, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
Right, I see the |season_list reasoning now, but not the reasoning for supported parameters. Why shouldn't a template be copied with empty parameters? I find this is often very helpful when outlining an article, where I want to come back to adding more infobox details later (but it would interrupt flow to do it immediately), or where another editor will fill those parameters in if they see them in the edit window. — Bilorv (talk) 07:23, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
We'll have to disagree on that. As someone who cleans up a lot of infoboxes uses, I see how these parameters are misused many times. If something is usually missing, more often then not, it's either not known, unwanted, or just not part of the show. If you feel otherwise, just add them back. --Gonnym (talk) 08:51, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Arrow Season 5 needs improvement
Gonnym, you undid the change I made to Arrow (season 5) when I was trying to bring the plot length to WP:TVPLOT's length of 100-200 words. It's fine if you disagree with my changes, but it's better if you also try to make improvement than just revert it as the problem still exists. So I'm going to make another attempt to cut the 24 words that need cutting, and if you don't like the change find, but please follow WP:BLD's "present a path forward". Thanks. ToeFungii (talk) 02:55, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
I've seen your changes across all the Arrowverse articles, some of them were changing 1-3 words. Even if the word length was 3 over the guideline, who cares? Seriously, do you think 3 less words makes it better? Do whatever you want, but if you remove actual character names with links from the summaries, I'll probably revert, as there is a reason why those names and links are there. --Gonnym (talk) 15:50, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Sorry for replacing the name, I probably copied it from what Rater spit out. However, I don't see how this is harmful and why it should be undone. Also, I don't see your watchlist and can't tell which ones you mean. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 15:39, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
Well, there is a huge and stupid (imo) prohibition on using AWB or any other tools to change small likes like template names. I personally dislike redirects as they have a huge downside when coding modules which depend on finding a specific name. So if the page already uses the correct and true template name, I'd like it to stay that way and not be changed to some pointless redirect. I know you can't see my watchlist, my point was that I've seen this happen at least another time, so I assumed it must happen more. If it didn't then great, but please make sure you don't change any others. --Gonnym (talk) 15:48, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
I'll be more careful now. However, my changes did add the WikiProject Redirect template and were not only about changing the name of the other one. 1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 15:54, 3 May 2020 (UTC)
I also noticed the spelling "seriesParamater" in lines 110 and 122, mis-spelling but would not matter if consistent - please check whether this matters, as "seriesParameter" is also used further down. – FayenaticLondon22:34, 8 May 2020 (UTC)
Did somebody edit the 'Series overview' module/template recently?...
Did somebody edit the 'Series overview' module/template recently? I could swear it used to use {{TableTBA}} for the "TBA" in the template, but now I'm noticing it's "full-sized" text for the "TBA", and it looks... not good to me. So, do you know if this a recent change?... TIA. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 18:54, 15 May 2020 (UTC)
Hey, just as a note for next time, there's a section on WP:RFPP dedicated to requesting edits on a protected page here. Your request was processed no problem but just thought I'd let you know. bibliomaniac1517:58, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
Editing sandboxes
Hi Gonnym. Thanks for making this edit to my sandbox. The edit was harmless (and useful because it made me look for the correct way to identify a location) but people use their sandboxes for experimenting with ideas for content and formatting and may not appreciate you tampering with their experiments. It could be more helpful to put a comment on their talkpage perhaps but even then you may find people don't like it. --Northernhenge (talk) 22:50, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
@Bdijkstra: Ya know, not that I have a problem fixing these (which I did), but nowhere in Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Speedy does it say that the requester is responsible for this, nor did I actually even move the page. It would be much more logical to assume that the bot should handle this, or the admin that processed this. Please do not leave me more messages like this again. If you find an issue, just fix it. --Gonnym (talk) 09:31, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
My apologies, JJCM89 claimed here that the admin who lists the move is responsible, so I looked on the wrong page. Unfortunately it is not obvious who the responsible admin is (in this case it is user:Ymblanter). Issues like this happen every day, usually by inexperienced editors, but I expect experienced editors and particularly admins to clean up after themselves. --bdijkstra (talk) 09:59, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
I have some workflow for cleaning up, and for these moves I have not yet completed it. Thanks anyway for helping.--Ymblanter (talk) 10:06, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
Many thanks for your inputs. However, I did find your last comment very close to rude. I am a native English speaker with full command of my mother tongue, and for my sins an 'A' grade in an school certificate in its usage. I would appreciate it if you could remain moderate, especially in edit comments. It is also possible that WP:OWN may also be coming into play here, though of course it's always hard to be sure of that; you might like to examine your conscience on that matter. All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:18, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
I don't think my comment was rude. "Maps, reference" is really meaningless. Is "Reference" a WP:REFERENCE? Regarding the WP:OWN, if indeed I was owning, I'd have added long ago the missing characters to the template which you disagree with. As can be seen by the edit history, I've not added those once. --Gonnym (talk) 11:35, 10 July 2020 (UTC)
About Bigg Boss
Hi As your a well known big brother expert could you please revert the edits Pavan Sparkle has done on Bigg Boss Tamil 1 and Bigg Boss Kannada (season 7) as the tables have too much Colors on them as this is not like the tables on big brother pages. Thanks.
It should look like this Bigg Boss (Hindi season 12)#Nominations table the user has done it wrong. Can you please revert to the time before Pavan Sparkle has edited that. There should be any color on the names of the contestants and the weeks on top even with housemates status.
It's bad faith to change templates while a discussion to delete one is being held. I could have replaced those 14 uses then nominated the template as unused. Would that be ok? Gonnym (talk) 10:04, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
Their was an error appearing on the infobox since I seen it on the pages using the season infobox. But, if you don't believe me whatever then. SpectresWrath (talk) 16:24, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
Hey, User:Armbrust wrote: The main article was only recently moved and without discussion. So oppose speedy at least until the recent name change isn't verified by at least one reliable source. and I asked this time if anything has changed since 2 weeks ago as I didn't see any talk page discussion. Regarding the player category, those should never change as those are categories which represent what was true at that time. A a club changing a name doesn't mean a player who played years prior, now also played for this new club. --Gonnym (talk) 13:51, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
Unfortunately I didn't read any of the comments (on both discussions) as I wasn't pinged. I mean, granted that no one gets pinged in these discussions, but having the whole page in my watchlist was a bit overkill as I was only interested in one discussion out of dozens.
If you can find good reliable sources for the name change, add them to the article and then start a normal category move request and point to those references. Because the article itself wasn't moved with a discussion and it was just recently done, that usually isn't enough to justify a speedy move. This will take a bit longer, but there probably is no rush either so at worst it will take 1-2 weeks. Regarding the player, I can completely understand the pain. We had some moves with Disney-Fox related categories which had to go back and forth and then created categories for the new studios. It takes time, but the end result is a good reflection of the history. --Gonnym (talk) 14:11, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
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As a followup, it seems to me the parent categories (i.e. the subcats of Category:Television series by network) should also be renamed to "original programming". However, I am unsure of what format would be best.
I'm not sure if you saw this at all, but the AoS social media team put up this great video showing all of the the title cards the series has used. Seeing it made me feel it'd be good to replace the GIF we have currently at Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.#Title sequence. I know you and I have been working on a bunch of the MCU files, but I wasn't sure how much knowledge you have regarding non-free media and meeting the criteria. I've already extracted the video and done some editing to speed it up and trimmed the front (which is the 100th episode opening), the end, and a little in the middle, to ultimately convert it to a GIF. This has gotten it down to about 30 seconds, and I feel like that still might be too length to pass NFCC. And if I speed it up more to get the time down, I feel like that defeats the purpose of having the media to visualize the title cards. Alternatively, we could use {{External media}}, but I'd like to upload it to the site if we think we can. Also want to ping Adamstom.97 if he has any thoughts on this. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:51, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
I think it makes sense to take advantage of it rather than sticking with the current GIF which doesn't have all the latest logos, but I too am not sure what the rules are exactly. I also agree that we don't want to have it so fast that you can't even see the different logos. If there isn't a good solution then I don't think including the link as external media is bad though. - adamstom97 (talk) 11:51, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
By my count, there are 17 distinct logos/typefaces. I'll keep working on the file on my end, see if I get anything I think could be usable per what we've said. As I was thinking more of options, I thought of just using static images of each, but I think the animations help in some instances such as the second dusting one. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:47, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
Yes, it would definitely be without audio. The goal is to edit it into another GIF like we have currently. In the coming days I'm going to spend time working on it, see if I can get it to what I would feel is an acceptable length, while still looking good to be informative. I also felt when I uploaded the current GIF, I found policy info on clips and GIFs, but I can't seem to find that now, which I thought would help in determining what to do. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:18, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Oh and I guess a follow up thought. If we go the EL route, do we feel we should have that and the current GIF, or simply the EL? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:19, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
I don't think it would hurt to have both, if we could get away with it, though it may raise questions as to why we have the shorter one when we clearly have access to the longer one. - adamstom97 (talk) 21:43, 14 August 2020 (UTC)
Okay, so I edited something that came out to 29 seconds. The original is about 1:35 seconds, so this about 1/3 of that. This is what it came out as. I'm trying to figure out if we want to use this how to make the file type a GIF, because it's currently an MPEG 4. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:41, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Agreed. And as you can see, I edited it to keep it to the unique title cards as much as possible. Pinging @Adamstom.97: for his thoughts. If he is in agreement as well, I'll figure out how to make it a GIF file type to upload. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:22, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
Great, I'll upload this version over the existing file tomorrow and adjust the non-free rationale and info in the article pertaining to it. I do have the existing file saved (as the original uploader), should there be objections. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 03:04, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
Skye/Daisy name formatting
Hey. I feel as thought the Daisy "Skye" Johnson formatting for the character list is more appropriate than Skye / Daisy Johnson. Yes, you are correct that Skye was not a nickname, but I feel the previous formatting was still correct in conveying the names the character went by. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:14, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
If you agree that it isn't a nickname, then the quotes are incorrect to use. We always use slash ("/") when we talk about alternative names. They are usually "alter ego" or "comics" names but it also works for cases such as this. --Gonnym (talk) 22:29, 10 August 2020 (UTC)
What about doing "Daisy (Skye) Johnson / Quake"? I think I'm just trying to avoid having two sets of slashes, in order to clearly delineate names over hero names. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:44, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
I did miss this. I'm still not sure. Skye really wasn't a nickname and parenthesis still makes it seem like it was. It's just as valid as "Daisy" and I wouldn't want to see "Sky (Daisy) Johnson" either. --Gonnym (talk) 14:02, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
In my earlier comment, my main issue is having a second slash to separate Skye from Daisy Johnson, and then the slash to separate the hero name of Quake. Is there some other type of punctuation we could use for the first slash? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:56, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
(talk page stalker) I think it is wrong to suggest that two of her three names are superhero names when only one of them is, and that is what we are doing with slashes since we only use those for superhero names on other characters. In saying that, I don't know what the best solution is. My preference at the moment is probably to go back to how it was as I think it worked fine before. - adamstom97 (talk) 19:32, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
That convention is not a global wiki one, as shown in the Arrow list, which means that users aren't expecting it nor did we ever say in the article that the style is "real name / superhero name". On the other hand, the previous style was incorrect as 'real name "name" last name' always (including outside of wiki_ means that the name in the middle is a nickname, which Skye never was. --Gonnym (talk) 19:52, 18 August 2020 (UTC)
TNBA falls under the scope of WP:COMICS as much as it does any other project.
It's fascinating that the redirect has been reverted, but not the actual merger (making the article effectively useless either way).
Ultimately, this is the fourth season of Batman: The Animated Series, not some sequel TV series. Even if it stays, it will need to be renamed Batman: The Animated Series (season 4) just like The Adventures of Batman & Robin (the third season) to comply with Wikipedia standards.
I see only you, JOEBRO64 and QuestFour at the discussion. While no article belongs to any WikiProject, if your aim at discussing a TV series is truly to discuss it, it should be where TV editors are watching, and that isn't WP:COMICS. It does not need to be WP:WPTV either, but WP:MOSTV or Wikipedia:Notability (television) would still be better options. I haven't gone and cleaned up after you. I expected that after that user reverted it, the bold move would be discussed and not re-reverted. --Gonnym (talk) 15:29, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
Hi, I'd like to know what your reasoning is to not have the template title italicized. I think that it shows that the template automatically italicizes it. Where do you find this discussion to not italicze the template? Funandtrvl (talk) 14:46, 24 August 2020 (UTC)
Just wanted to check, now that the ISO TFD has hit a point where I'll likely close and implement tomorrow, that the intention here is basically to convert each usage of {{ISO 639 name XXX}} with {{ISO 639 name|XXX}}. Are there any exceptions or oddities that would gum up my bot simply going through all of the listed templates to convert them to essentially autosubt wrappers? Primefac (talk) 01:35, 23 August 2020 (UTC) (please ping on reply)
@Primefac: I'm not sure your bot is currently needed. I know @Trappist the monk has written an AWB script to first convert each template into a wrapper to catch any usages which are not ISO 639. So I think that is the first step. I pinged them here. --Gonnym (talk) 07:45, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
I don't know what an autosubst wrapper is. I don't know what your bot does. I had thought to edit the {{ISO 639 name <code>}} templates to replace the plain-text language name with the matching {{ISO 639 name|<code>}}. Doing that will allow me to fix usage errors as they occur. While I don't expect many errors, I would prefer to fix them as they occur rather than have to deal with a flood of errors were a wholly automated process (your bot or someone else's bot) to make the replacements en masse. Once the plain-text names have been replaced in the {{ISO 639 name <code>}} templates and any errors fixed, then a bot that can convert transclusions of {{ISO 639 name <code>}} to {{ISO 639 name|<code>}} would be handy. Does your bot do that?
Sorry, forgot that not everyone is familiar with my tasks/procedures. My thought was to do the first step as you describe, editing each template to be a wrapper of {{ISO 639 name}}. I figured I could use my bot to automate the process and avoid the 1200 or so manual edits. As you say, if and when any errors have been fixed, then we can use User:AnomieBOT/TFDTemplateSubster to have the bot subst away all of the transclusions of the nominated templates. Primefac (talk) 17:08, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
It's the former. However, since you do already have the script ready to go, I suppose I'll let you go ahead with the conversion as described. Let me know when it's complete and I'll take care of the substing. Primefac (talk) 18:15, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
Ok, I'll probably start on it this afternoon or tomorrow.
There are 4 templates that use {{#invoke:ISO 639 name|iso_639_code_to_name|{{{1}}}, 3 of them add the |label=yes parameter. All 3 are used 12 times. The mountain template one gave it ~10 or so more uses. I don't really think such a low usages for 3 templates really necessitates these 3 separate templates. But you can revert if you disagree. I'm planning to anyways bring these to TfD later on as a secondary cleanup, after the ISO 639 name x templates are deleted. --Gonnym (talk) 13:51, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
This search shows that there are more than three templates using {{#invoke:ISO 639 name|iso_639_code_to_name|{{{1}}}. Likely, in all cases, the #invoke can be replaced with {{ISO 639 name}}.
I'm thinking of proposing the Living Dead article for deletion and keeping the Dead series and the RotLD series under their own separate articles. You seem to have strong opinions about the article, so wanted to reach out to you first. Feel free to respond here or on the article's talk page. - Enter Movie (talk) 20:23, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
I haven't been involved with that article in a long time, but if you cannot find sources that indeed talk about the Living Dead as a group of films which don't only include the two film series, but also these unofficial films, then maybe deletion is correct. But if there are sources, then the article is a reason to be kept. My opposition was mainly for duplicating the two existing series articles (which should stay separate as I'm sure there is enough to justify each one). --Gonnym (talk) 20:27, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
Yeah np. I can do it tomorrow I think as I'm in the middle of something else in AWB and don't want to lose where I stopped. --Gonnym (talk) 17:37, 25 August 2020 (UTC)
I know you are a veteran editor but I just wanted to remind you that when you tag a page for any kind of deletion, you need to post a notice of this tagging on the talk page of the page creator. If you use Twinkle this is done automatically, so this is very convenient and I recommend the tool. Thank you. LizRead!Talk!06:00, 28 August 2020 (UTC)
I do not want to get into an edit war over this. This is typical of the many lists linked from Lists of awards. A list of similar things is not the same as a disambiguation page. All the awards have different names, and very few readers will think there is just one global award for supporting actor. I propose to restore the list to a regular list, as is has been for many years. You may then open a discussion on the talk page over whether it should be made a disambiguation page. If it were to be done it should be renamed award for supporting actor, and stripped down to pages that contain the phrase "supporting actor".
I agree that it would be useful to review the inbound links and fix them to point to specific awards where appropriate. I note that very few articles link directly to the list. A possible approach would be to make redirects like Best Supporting Actress into disambiguation pages, with a sample of entries that contain the phrase "Best Supporting Actress" and a link to the list. These would not be very useful disambiguation pages, so do not have to be at all complete, but would show up as probable errors on pages linking to them. I can do that. Aymatth2 (talk) 22:32, 1 September 2020 (UTC)
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Thanks, I wasn't sure which one to choose. The template didn't change, I just added now code that places the incorrect categories in a tracking category. They might have been like this empty for years. Gonnym (talk) 19:01, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
If a template was (at any point in time) supposed to populate those categories, and they're no longer being populated, then I'd say that's a good use of G8. The length of time they haven't been populated is largely immaterial. Primefac (talk) 19:50, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
The other failures are unexpected; more so because comparing live against sandbox {{#invoke:}}s here, shows that all of these that fail at the testcases page do not fail here. Since they work independently, that suggests that there is something amiss with the testcases code.
The way I set it up (and it might be incorrect, seeing as it doesn't take into account overrides), was to get the list from the relevant module. So in this case, from Module:Language/data/ISO 639-1. Then I compare the result of #invoke:Lang|name_from_tag with the the first language returned from the data entry in the list. "Church Slavic" is the first entry, which is why it returned that. I'll need to see how I can add the override logic there. --Gonnym (talk) 16:14, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Similar issue with the ISO 639-2, -3 codes? Lots of errors but the iana source (which is 'the' source) sometimes reorders language name aliases so tests fail. For example idc in Module talk:Lang/testcases/ISO 639-3-2 name from tag: ISO 639-3 has: "Ajiya", "Idon" but iana has: "Idon", "Ajiya". In the data set 'coalesced' by Module:Language/name/data, iana has priority over ISO 639.
I think that the current goal is to abandon Module:Language/name/data which is why Module:Lang/sandbox doesn't use it. That being the case, shouldn't the primary data for the testcases be derived from Module:Language/data/iana languages? We might retain the ISO 639 -2, -3, -5, deprecated testcases for reference.
I've been wondering recently about the use of variant tag descriptions in the rendering of link labels, tool tips, category names; pretty sure that I wrote about that on my talk page. Without anyone dissuades me, I'm going to disable that after adding appropriate overrides for existing uses to Module:Lang/data. Did that already for cs-valencia and tw-asante.
Also, I notice that the tests sometimes fail because they take to long to render.
The testcases don't use Module:Language/name/data, but they do use every name present in the relevent tables. So for "idc" it checked both "Idon", "Ajiya" (as both are in Module:Language/data/iana languages). Should it not? Regarding the long tests, I don't really know what else to do. Part of my musing comment was based on the complex work that is needed to get a piece of static data, which in this case also causes the timeout (if I'm not mistaken, the timeout started after your recent change to the lang module. So it's very fragile to any "extra" processing). --Gonnym (talk) 18:26, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Because you aren't fetching data from Module:Language/name/data (for the live module, that is the relevant data) then you should be using Module:Language/data/iana languages because when Module:Language/name/data is 'coalesced', Module:Language/data/wp languages is first, followed by Module:Language/data/iana languages, and finally by Module:Language/data/ISO 639-3. So, for idc, we end up with this:
["idc"]={"Idon","Ajiya","Ajiya","Idon"}
The first pair of names came from iana, the second pair of names came from ISO 639-3. From this list of four names, Module:Lang will only take the first name. Because the testcases code takes names from the ISO 639-3 module, wherever the ISO 639-3 name-order differs from the iana name-order, the test will fail. Also, the test will fail because Module:lang and ~/sandbox strip the parenthetical disambiguators but the reference lists retain them.
If these are going to be the tests against which Module:lang is validated, the static reference lists must be correct. They are not while they derived from the ISO 639-3 module and retain disambiguation. For the category_from_tag() tests, the reference lists will need to retain the disambiguators.
But if I get the data from the iana file, how do I know what ISO it is? If you have fixes to the testcases feel free to change anything there as I'm not sure how to proceed here. --Gonnym (talk) 22:58, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Module:Lang could not care one whit about ISO parts. Is the code valid? Should it be promoted from three-characters to two? Humans might care simply for the purposes of organization (else we wouldn't sort the list) but Module:lang just does not care. Maybe I'll poke around tomorrow. I'm currently hacking an awb script to remove the no-longer-needed positional parameters from {{Category articles containing non-English-language text}}.
If we don't split it by ISO that could work. Before you use the script, let me know please. I'm using the positional parameters to validate categories before G8 them. Also, I'd like to standardize the template names so was thinking of renaming it to "Non-English-language text category" to match the source one, but wasn't sure yet. --Gonnym (talk) 23:56, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
If lang will never support finding the tags of the alternative names then I guess you are right. If in the future that changes, we can adjust the tests again. I'll make a final pass of the /documentor module and update to live so you can use the script. --Gonnym (talk) 10:04, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
I tweaked Module:Lang/testcases/ISO 639-3-1 name from tag to remove disambiguators. Because it is necessary to look at each language code to exclude ISO 639-1 codes, I also used that opportunity to pare the list to those codes specified by the range so I removed the range restrictions from the call to testcases_name_from_tag(). No errors testing Module:Lang/sandbox against the list. When I tested Module:Lang against the list there are errors. I expect that because Module:Language/data/wp languages overrides codes that Module:lang/data does not yet know about. I can use that to get a definitive list of updates needed in ~/data.
Still an issue with timeout so I shortened the 639-3-1 from a–h to a–f. Famous last words, the change that you mentioned should not have made Module:Lang/sandbox run slower unless time spent creating a data module doesn't count. The change spins through Module:Language/data/iana scripts, Module:Language/data/iana regions, and Module:Language/data/iana suppressed scripts to set the keys to lowercase. It might be better to just modify local script and region indexes to their canonical form because they are generally rarely used. I'll see if that makes a difference.
Astonishing. Doing as I just suggested speeds up everything to the point that a single testcase can do all of the three-character code testing without timing out (close at 9.7 seconds ... but gets it done).
Wow, that's really is amazing. I thought that the ISO3s would always time out because of the amount of entries in the list, not because of the time it took. Learn something every day :) --Gonnym (talk) 14:42, 22 September 2020 (UTC)
Are you sufficiently finished with G8ing that I can run the awb script?
Yeah, I'm done as I don't know which of those will be valid or not. It's also just a not a lot left so I can manually check the pages. --Gonnym (talk) 17:17, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
Completely unrelated to your question, but something I was thinking about while writing the /testcases. I wonder if our current data structure is the best and most optimal one we have. Currently, we do a lot of changing of values based on overrides and reverse lookup is quite taxing. I was thinking that if we change our structure to a static one, we could save a lot of time and code. What I mean is something like this: make files -> static ISO-# list -> static complete list. The complete list would be in a format like this: [code] = {type = {iso#, ... }, primary = "primary_name", alt_names = {"", ...}, local_overide = bool (might not be needed), prefixes = {"", ...}, (used in the variants tables), article_override = ""}. This way when we need to get the "correct" title for a category, it would be as easy as table[code].primary and using that name. We can also then have a reverse static table which is just in the format of [language] = "code". These static pages would need to be updated only whenever a change to the data is wanted. Probably hundreds of things I didn't think about wanted to share :) --Gonnym (talk) 16:22, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Not sure I understood the first question. the language name is redlinked and disambiguated and Would it be better were the template to use the disambiguated language name there? seem to be the same, or did you mean non-disambiguated name? So in that case, your suggestion is to do an exists() check on the title, if it doesn't, then de-dab and use that name?
Regarding the order of text, I used the exact one from the original template, but looking at the text, the order seems ok-ish. Line #1 gives the scope, line #2 says what template controls what pages are added and line #3 gives an example of how that template is used. But if you feel a better order (or text) is available, go for it (just keep the strings in the string.format style). --Gonnym (talk) 13:35, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
I was trying to ask if the first sentence should at read like this (no disambiguation in the wikilink):
That rendering uses {{lang|fn=name_from_tag|tmr|link=yes}} – no exists() check required. And, you already use name_from_tag() for the language tag in the {{tlx}} template expansion.
No matter how I rearrange the sentences in that template, I'm never really happy with it. I'll think on it some more; perhaps a complete rewrite is required. If that is the case, I'm doubtful that such an effort is really worth the time...
Are the above examples all ok (I think it covers all variations)?
Regarding the re-write, if you come up with a better style, I don't have a problem implementing it. It should* be pretty straight forward. --Gonnym (talk) 15:19, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
Sort of. Except for the collective codes, should include '-language' which, for consistency should probably be linked because 'languages' from the collective codes names will be linked:
That does mean though that you should probably implement my list of language link dab fixes as these categories shouldn't have those links that lead to them. --Gonnym (talk) 16:02, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
Yeah, that should be done. I am inclined to defer that task until after the pending Module:Lang update. Of all of those codes at your dab fix page, only two have {{lang-??}} templates: {{lang-hbo}} and {{lang-mla}}. Both of those already make links to the correct article:
{{lang|fn=lang_xx_inherit|code=hbo|text=text}} → Biblical Hebrew: text
{{lang/sandbox|fn=lang_xx_inherit|code=hbo|text=text}} → Biblical Hebrew: text
{{lang|fn=lang_xx_inherit|code=mla|text=text}} → Tamambo: text
{{lang/sandbox|fn=lang_xx_inherit|code=mla|text=text}} → Tamambo: text
Ignoring {{Non-English-language text category}}, I suspect that {{lang-??}} templates are the most likely source of wikilinks to dab pages.
Thank you for assisting in the redesign of the radio and TV station and network infoboxes in the last several months. This has been a very large project touching some 30,000 pages and would not be possible without you! Raymie (t • c) 18:17, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
Xiliuheshui, thanks for letting me know. I made an edit to the module which should fix it. Let me know if you see anything else. --Gonnym (talk) 15:25, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
{{Lang-gem|text in Germanic language here}} displays as Germanic languages: text in Germanic language here
That is wrong. {{Lang-gem}} redirects to {{Lang-gem-x-proto}}. I did that because we should not usurp {{Lang-gem}} for proto language text. The redirect also covered the transition from {{Lang-gem}} to {{Lang-gem-x-proto}}. Because no longer used, {{Lang-gem}} can go away.
I agree that they should be deleted. I have a follow up question to this though, is there any reason most of the Lang-x can't be merged into {{Lang2}} template? If there isn't, the above can be part of that nomination. --Gonnym (talk) 14:51, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
Yes regarding using that name for a different purpose. The intention is for what I wrote above is there any reason most of the Lang-x can't be merged into {{Lang2}} template?, having one lang-xx template instead of hundreds. There is no reason why {{Lang}} can work with a parameter, but {{Lang-fr}} needs a specific language template. Am I missing something? --Gonnym (talk) 15:06, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
The thing about the {{lang-??}} templates is that they preset various parameters (|script=, |rtl=, etc) so that editors don't have to and each template calls one of two functions in Module:Lang (lang_xx_inherit() or lang_xx_italic()). We can perhaps usurp {{lang-x}} to be usable for the cases where a handful of uses for a particular language code don't warrant the creation of a new {{lang-??}} template. For example, there is no {{lang-sts}} but an editor wanting that functionality for a few instances in a particular article might write:
{{lang-x|sts|text|italic=no}}
from which {{lang-x}} might produce:
{{#invoke:lang|lang_xx_inherit|code=sts|text=text}} → Shumashti: text
This would also probably require us to make Template:Lang-x/doc a real template at {{lang-x doc}} (we should do that anyway...).
I agree that the presets are useful, which is why I didn't say to merge them into {{Lang}}. Since we already have a list of presets in each template, we can move these into a table and accessed by the language key. This would still preserve the presets but also allowing us to reduce ~800 templates into 1 template and 1 new data module. --Gonnym (talk) 15:49, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
You know, I did not get the minder-reader gene. Saying completely what you mean to say the first time that you say it would be helpful.
Haha. I try and ask my questions as clear as I can, without hiding anything, but I guess it fails sometimes. However, if that minder-reader gene could come in handy :) --Gonnym (talk) 16:24, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
All of ISO 639-1 and -2T are in the iana list; none of the ISO 639-2B are in iana; all of ISO 639-3 except hbs (a deprecated code though still listed in 639-3) are in iana; all of ISO 639-5 except bih (promotes to bh) are in iana; none of the deprecated ISO 639 codes are in iana. I do not think that there is much value to keeping the ISO 639-2B, ISO 639-2B, and ISO 639 (dep) tests. Also, I have disabled the variant description-as-language-name so that test can be withdrawn.
I'll take a look. They all originally ran when I did them, but the bigger ones were always fragile. I'll see what changed. --Gonnym (talk) 12:22, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
As a quick answer, this test is the only one comparing the same exact code live and sandbox, and not to a specific table. So maybe that is why, as other than that, it just does a simple code extraction so the table can be made. --Gonnym (talk) 12:25, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
Maybe the get_ietf_parts (source, args_script, args_region, args_variant) function * the amount of codes is just too much for it? --Gonnym (talk) 12:28, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
and doing the independent live and sandbox tests of those same {{#invoke:}}s:
Lua memory usage: 13.76 MB/50 MB (sandbox); recognize that number?
Lua memory usage: 14.5 MB/50 MB (live)
I wondered what would happen if I changed to a static table of category names, bypassing ~/documentor tool entirely like this:
localp=require('Module:UnitTests')functionp:test_lang_ietf()self:preprocess_equals_preprocess_many('{{#invoke:Lang/sandbox|category_from_tag|','}}','','',{{"aa","Category:Articles containing Afar-language text"},{"ab","Category:Articles containing Abkhazian-language text"},{"ae","Category:Articles containing Avestan-language text"},-- all of the other code / cat names here ...{"zu","Category:Articles containing Zulu-language tex"},},{nowiki=1})end;returnp
I don't think your conclusion is correct. What you did is removed all the processing time and complexity by just writing two strings. Of course that would work better. The previous one retrieved a list, removed the language and left only the codes, sorted it, then compared the sandbox code to the live code (again, two invokes, compared to one invoke in the other testcases), which requires much more time and actual processing to work. The above example, is not really flexible, as you'll have to make sure the ISO list is always in sync with whatever dataset you are using (and these things always fall out of sync) and in case you change something in the category structure, you'll have to make sure it is also updated here. But I will say this (which I said a few times on this page before), the way we are using the /data isn't the optimal way as the data is static, but we are generating it dynamically for no reason. --Gonnym (talk) 13:52, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
localp=require('Module:UnitTests')localcat_from_tag=require('Module:Lang')._category_from_tag;-- use Module:Lang to create the 'expected results'localiana_data=mw.loadData('Module:Language/data/iana languages');-- use the iana datalocalcode_mask='^[a-h]%l%l';-- used to limit number of tests--[[--------------------------< T E S T _ P A T T E R N S _ G E T >--------------------------------------------build a table of test patterns where each entry in the table is a table with two members: {"<code>", "<cat name according to Module:Lang>"}]]localfunctiontest_patterns_get()localtpats={}-- collect test patterns hereforcodeinpairs(iana_data)do-- list of names not needed herelocalpattern={};-- here we assemble the test pattern for <code>-- if 2 == code:len() then -- no limits for two-character codesifcode:find(code_mask)then-- if code within limits (three-character codes)table.insert(pattern,code);-- add it to the patterntable.insert(pattern,cat_from_tag({code}));-- call module:lang and add the 'expected results' for code to patterntable.insert(tpats,pattern);-- accumulate in list of patternsendendlocalfunctioncomp(a,b)-- local function used by table.sort()returna[1]<b[1];-- assending sort by codeendtable.sort(tpats,comp);-- make the list prettyreturntpats;-- and doneendlocaltest_patterns=test_patterns_get();--[[--------------------------< T E S T _ C A T E G O R Y _ F R O M _ T A G >----------------------------------]]functionp:test_category_from_tag()self:preprocess_equals_preprocess_many('{{#invoke:Lang/sandbox|category_from_tag|','}}','','',test_patterns,{nowiki=1})end;returnp
Vaguely related, because Module:Lang won't be using data from the ISO 639 tables, perhaps the testcases names should be changed to something along the lines of:
I removed one invoke and it runs (without any actual valid result of course). I removed the code not needed anymore from the /documentor tool but there is not a lot more optimization that can happen there as all it does it gets the data ready to call the module. As a test what we can do is create a static table of the iso codes, pass it to it and just call the lang module and see if it runs or not. Regarding the names, I agree they need to be changed. I was thinking maybe /iana but yours seems to be better. Feel free to move them. --Gonnym (talk) 17:06, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
I don't have an answer. So, I propose to replace the category_from_tag() tests with clones of the above test so that there is something to test against. I will likely do something similar for the tag_from_name() testcases (the last thing I'm working on before updating Module:Lang) – I can test the ISO 639-1 codes but the -3 testcases overrun memory because I-don't-know-why. After the update we can revisit the question of how to consolidate these tests?
The latest change you did causes it to timeout simply because you asked for the value in the for loop. I have no freaking idea why the lua here is so fragile that it can't handle that. But to your question, yes, let's make the code work, even if ugly, and try and clean it up after it goes live. Semi-related to this, in Module:Lang/data you have override tables which are in the format of: k = {}. My question is, can an override even be more than one? If it can't, wouldn't a: k = "" (string) be more efficient? --Gonnym (talk) 14:10, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
Now that all of these are handled inside ~/data/sandbox, switching all except ~/iana variants and ~/iana suppressed scripts is something to think about.
Testcases have stopped working for category_from_tag() and name_from_tag(). Because whatever creates the reference lists is not aware of active{} and deprecated{} in Module:Language/data/iana languages?
Now that the update is almost over (just the deprecated tags left), can we start thinking of how to handle this? From Module:Lang/data, the relevant tables are the "override" and "article_name" tables. --Gonnym (talk) 14:01, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
The oh-so-obvious problem is that Module:ISO 639 name wants the various overrides to be segregated into ISO 639 parts: override_1{}, override_2{}, override_2B{}, override_3{}, override_5{}, override_dep{}. Module:Lang wants the various overrides to be lumped together. So we could create a common override module that is written with segregated tables. Module:ISO 639 name could use those tables as-is. A separate function lang_override_make() could lump the individual ISO 639-part override tables into a single override{} table for Module:Lang to use. Right now, the two article_name{} tables are identical so could easily be moved into the shared override module.
Module:ISO 639 name has functions that work only with the specified part; for example: iso_639_code_1_to_name() which will only work with the ISO 639-1 name lists:
{{ISO 639 name|fn=iso_639_code_3_to_name|jaw}} → error: jaw not found in ISO 639-3 list (help)
iso_639_code_to_name_common() looks first in the override data for the specified ISO 639 part; then in the main data for the specified part; then in the deprecated data for the specified part.
Not mentioned above are the IETF language tags (ca-valencia and the like) and the private-use tags (grk-x-proto etc) that Module:Lang supports but that Module:ISO 639 name does not. The table 'made' with lang_override_make() could be initialized with these tag/language-name pairs.
Ah ok. Then your initial idea might be the best one then. Keep them separated and have function for Module:Lang to get them as a combined list. Keeping it modular might be better anyways for future needs. --Gonnym (talk) 15:53, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
I have hacked at the module and also hacked some test code in my sandbox to compare combined_table{} against the live Module:Lang/dataoverride{} table. The override_2{} table had to be split because we override inverted names for Module:ISO 639 name that we don't need to override for Module:Lang (the iana data are already inverted from the ISO 639-2 source). So far, the only testing I've done is to loop through all of the codes in override{} and see that they exist in combined_table{} and vice versa. That part is working (apparently) and they both have the same number of codes (167). I'll test language names later in the afternoon.
Can you explain what you mean by the inverted difference? Another question, why is there a cosmetic split between the ISO 639 tags and the Lang/data tags? Is it just for now while testing or is there a reason to keep the distinction? (I understand why keeping the /wp ones apart, at least for now, as those seem to be a bit hit and miss, but eventually that distinction should also go). --Gonnym (talk) 19:54, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
The former is inverted. We can probably tweak Module:ISO 639 name so that it automatically normalizes inverted names.
The cosmic split was merely to keep original sources separate so that I didn't get too lost. I've just tested language names in the combined_table{} against the live Module:Lang/dataoverride{}. They all agree so I'll clean up the module some and hook it into Module:Lang/sandbox. I think that it'll want a new name; something to acknowledge its shared nature... Ideas? I'm going to rename combined_table{} to override{} because that name will become free to use.
The cosmic split was merely to keep original sources separate so that I didn't get too lost. makes sense. We can probably tweak Module:ISO 639 name so that it automatically normalizes inverted names I suppose we should have a standard presentation, but since both produce the same visual result, I don't really understand where the difference is but I trust you do know. Regarding the name, I'll have to think about it. No good ideas currently. --Gonnym (talk) 22:08, 4 October 2020 (UTC)
I have enabled the shared override module in Module:Lang/sandbox. All of the testcases work. Not so successful with Module:ISO 639 name/sandbox. These three tests fail to run (not enough memory error):
It isn't clear that the ISO 639-1, -2, and -5 versions to those tests are using the shared override data. When I suspended use of the shared override data in Module:ISO 639 name/sandbox. The same three tests still fail in the same way so the problem isn't the shared data. I have left the sandbox using its old override data.
I have no idea how to solve this out of memory bug. I tried duplicating the code Module:Sandbox/Gonnym/sometest here and it still did not work. I'll have to scrap the setup and just duplicate the code in every test case which is very annoying. --Gonnym (talk) 10:50, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Could you let me know what from these is because of the change to the shared override and what might be bugs in my code? --Gonnym (talk) 15:53, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Not sure how to fix the name_to_code series. I've verified that the override_table used is the specific iso number version. Any other ideas? --Gonnym (talk) 18:30, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Ah! I didn't even know that the syntax needed it, thanks! I had to add to Module:ISO 639 name a |part= parameter as the testcases has the part at the first position. I don't think it should break anything, but double check me there.
The testcases are expecting Module:Lang/sandbox and Module:ISO 639 name/sandbox to return deprecated codes even when both modules have access to the active codes. They will not. Both always return the active code when one exists. We could probably tweak both to force them to return deprecated codes instead of active codes (not sure if there is any benefit to that). We can adjust the testcases so that when they assemble the reference list, they look for both active and deprecated codes and expect the active or skip the language name test when the language name has both active and deprecated codes. I guess that I would opt for the test cases expecting the active code.
Changed |part= to |2= and it worked. So no need for my edit in the /sandbox. So only issue left is handling the /testcases for deprecated codes and hopefully all real-issues handled. --Gonnym (talk) 19:53, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
Not related to the override, but something I noticed. Why does Lang use "x from y" (name from tag) while ISO 639 uses "x to y" (code to name)? Mw lang also uses "x from y".
It occurs to me that iso_639_code_to_name{} and the like should lose the iso_639_ prefix because that's obvious whether the function is called from an {{#invoke:}} or from the {{ISO 639 name}} template in |fn=.
Yeah, but there is another. I noticed yesterday that code_from_name()Module_talk:ISO_639_name/testcases has a new test fail. This because, in the live version of the modules, ang 'English, Old (ca.450-1100)' is overridden to 'Old English'. Not so in the sandbox version. Module:Language/data/ISO_639_name_to_code/make does not create entries for de-dabbed language names. I'll fix that.
Ah, I didn't know lang does that. I should probably setup testcases for the dab to test it for both land and iso 639. Have any idea how we can get that list without manually going over the list to check each entry? --Gonnym (talk) 13:20, 6 October 2020 (UTC)
Module:Lang doesn't normalize inverted names because IANA normalizes them for us. I will have to noodle out something akin to how Module:Lang handles dedabbed names. There is, for example, ISO 639-2 ain (Ainu) and ISO 639-3 ain (Ainu (Japan)) and ISO 639-3 aib (Ainu (China)). The list for these should look something like:
Yeah. We are waiting for me to get back to writing a version of Module:Language/data/ISO 639 name to code/make that actually works. I got interrupted by the cs1|2 update and its attendant cleanup and so haven't got back to what I was doing before.
When you create a category, just create it matching the name of the franchise article, including its disambiguation. --Gonnym (talk) 17:32, 26 October 2020 (UTC)
There is nothing wrong with changing a redirect to disambiguation page if there are indeed other targets with that name, but the way to do it is not to change the redirect and call it a day. You should move the current title to a new one, in this case, Blood Memory (Supergirl), then fix all incoming links to that target to the new target. Only then change the disambiguation page. Since you didn't do that, and I had no time to do it, I reverted the change so incoming links won't be lost. --Gonnym (talk) 16:33, 31 October 2020 (UTC)
The Months of African Cinema Contest Continues in November!
Greetings,
Thank you very much for participating in the Months of African Cinema global contest/edit-a-thon, and thank you for your contributions so far.
It is already the middle of the contest and a lot have been achieved already! We have been able to get over 1,500 articles created in over fifteen (15) languages! This would not have been possible without your support and we want to thank you. If you have not yet listed your name as a participant in the contest page please do so.
Please make sure to list the articles you have created or improved in the article achievements' section of the contest page, so that they can be easily tracked. To be able to claim prizes, please also ensure to list your articles on the users by articles page. We would be awarding prizes to different categories of winners:
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We are very excited about what has been achieved so far, but your contributions are still needed to further exceed all expectations! Let’s create more articles before the end of this contest, which is this November!!!
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MCU file names update
Hey Gonnym. So as I'm sure you've seen, I've gone through and moved some of the files you had in your sandbox area. I wanted to talk through what remains. Many of these are VFX comparison shots, so I'm wondering if they should have another name beyond simply "[Content] in [film]". That'll cover much of the first set of files and some of those character ones. Also, for fully CGI characters (Thanos, Dormammu, and Korg) we've been using the naming format they are currently at, so I don't think those should change. I can see an argument for the Thanos one switching to include Brolin, but not Dormammu or Korg. Thanks. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:53, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
Regarding the VFX, I agree. I was also thinking about that and I think I commented that somewhere in the /sandbox. Regarding Dormammu/Korg, sure, np. If some names are ok, just strike them out so I can see. Also, feel free to comment on that page so it'll be easier to follow. --Gonnym (talk) 23:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)
The anime articles might either be incorrectly disambiguated or use an incorrect article, so it takes a bit more work to validate that, but generally yes. Series articles should use the series infobox, season ones should use the season infobox. Category:Television articles using incorrect infobox is a category which gets populated automatically when it detects certain issues. I used {{subst:User:Gonnym/sandbox/subst season}} to convert series infoboxes to season (juse replace the template name with that and it does the work). A season-to-series one would need to be created. --Gonnym (talk) 17:56, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
OK, I will try to remember to fix this "manually" soon, but I'm at least a week from my work load winding down to manageable levels... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 19:24, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
ScreenPlay
{{Episode list}} is not suitable for use in this list because:
there are more plays than episodes
there is no consistent numbering of either, and {{Episode list}} requires numbering
the list is very likely to be incomplete at present
{{Episode list}} does not generate anchors using titles
How are there more plays than episodes? And even if there were, split episode usages are already present in numerous pages, so that isn't an issue.
several episodes contain more than one play
The numbering should be based on broadcast order, unless otherwise noted (and for a very good reason). The list should under no circumtstance be a random one or based on editor preference. If the current numbering doesn't match, then it should be fixed.
so adding missing episodes changes anchors created by episode table thus breaking links to them
The list being incomplete does not matter. Again, if the numbering does not match, then correct the numbering.
The template does not generate anchors using titles, so?
Only use of titles gives anchors that remain constant as episodes are added
I don't see how the template is even an issue. On the other hand, the template now made this page consistent with thousands of television pages, fixed style issues and allows for easier maintenance. --Gonnym (talk) 14:07, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Also, just to let you know, your table was created by you 2 days ago, meaning that I could have easily reverted back to the status-quo version. Unlike you, I try not to WP:OWN pages. --Gonnym (talk) 14:21, 16 November 2020 (UTC)
Hmm, seems to me that you are trying to own use of a template which is not suitable for drama anthologies, where overall sorting by writer and director is highly useful.
Any numbering you assign is likely to be wrong, and in any case is a Wikipedia artifact that shouldn’t be visible to readers. Therefore only anchors using titles are useful.
Not sure where to post this, but this seemed like the correct place. There are many sub-pages of Wikipedia:Wiki Ed ([3]), but that page is a soft redirect and the actual page is at Wikipedia:Education program. Those sub-pages should move so they all are all much easily searchable, especially with tools like the above sub-page tool. Also when navigating between pages, not being sent to the redirect or have the title change is an added bonus.--Gonnym (talk) 11:09, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
@Gonnym:, I tried moving some pages individually, because swapping isn't a fine option there. If we, for the time sake do this, a number of 100 sub-pages can be moved with it (only if we move the main page as well, which we don't have to). I guess these pages should be moved individually whenever you have time. These are about 4000 subpages, and "destination targets" don't exist. Can be moved easily, but I don't know any tool with which we can move multiple pages. Hope Anthony Appleyard might be having any idea since they are an admin, and they are mostly active at RMT. ─ The Aafī (talk) 05:27, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
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The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
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Hello Gonnym, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2021. Happy editing, ★Trekker (talk) 16:43, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Hello Gonnym, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2021. Happy editing, Trailblazer101 (talk) 17:28, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Hello Gonnym, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this seasonal occasion. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2021. Happy editing, Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:30, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. LizRead!Talk!16:21, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. LizRead!Talk!16:50, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
The self-categorization is caused by the category being incorrectly named ("Original Programming" should not be capitalized). Gonnym appears to have resolved the problem the first time by listing the category for renaming at WP:CFDS, and temporarily suppressing the self-categorization with |no_cat=yes during the two-day waiting period associated with that process. I've now done the first step (proposing the speedy rename) for Category:Zee Marathi Original Programming* Pppery *it has begun...21:20, 5 March 2021 (UTC)
