This is an archive of past discussions with User:Eric Corbett. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Article titles and focus
How do, Eric? I'm seeking some advice about J. & N. Philips, an article that has been sitting in my userspace as a draft for a year or so. I've moved it now but it is far from complete. In particular, it is very lacking in information on developments in the 20th century, for which I have struggled to find sources despite there being no doubt in my ind that it continued to be a notable business.
One of the problems that I faced from the outset was how to structure the thing, bearing in mind that there have been numerous strands of business and of family descending from something that began in Tean in 1747. Would it be better to rename the article, given that it deals with so many strands? Would it be useful to create a Philips family article that put the various notable members in their place? You'll notice from the (poor) lead section that we already have articles for quite a few of the family members. - Sitush (talk) 10:16, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
Having read the article a couple of times now I'm uncertain what you intended its scope to be. If it's just about J. & N. Philips then much of the material, such as the Philanthropy section, seems to be irrelevant, particularly as there's relatively little material on J. & N. Philips included anyway. So I think your best bet would be to cut out everything unrelated to J. & N. Philips and focus on that business, assuming that there's enough material to justify an article, which I suspect there probably is. EricCorbett12:01, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. It is probably the worst article I've ever contributed. I got a bit lost along the way and a part of the reason for moving it to mainspace was a hope that someone else might be able to bring more focus/structure/whatever to it. The material is notable and sourced but pulling it all together proved to be beyond me. There must be other sources out there, although I've not yet found them. I will have another think and also take a look at the article mentioned by Cassianto.
I've just been pulling together some sources to write up the Manchester/Salford VD hospital. Even the research is infectious ;) - Sitush (talk) 13:38, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
We did it! A considerable achievement if you consider what it was like only a few weeks back!! A text book example of how hard work and persistence/dedication can turn around a low quality article within a short period of time. Many thanks to yourself and all of the reviewers, especially Cassianto, who've helped improve it!♦ Dr. Blofeld06:04, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
I was going to write "you" up. Pity that Archdeacon of Liverpool doesn't seem to be a position with automatic notability, since I could find no reliable sources to write up anything on your namesake. What's funny is a Google Book search for your name (don't know if you'll see the same results) where on the second page I find the Broadview edition of The Man in the Moone listed. Google must have some algorithm that connects the search term via various internet hits (including Wikipedia, no doubt) to "likely" matches. Hope all is well: do you need another cat? I have one on offer. Drmies (talk) 17:10, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
How strange. We've got enough cats for the moment, but we're collecting another ferret at the weekend. EricCorbett17:47, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
I see Fred Phelps died fairly recently. I remember him well on Louis Theroux's documentary. I'm sure God will be thanking him for his lifetime achievements :-).♦ Dr. Blofeld08:01, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
Tyldesley witch
Thanks for helping, this is going to be slow going for me as I am afflicted with a horrible virus and have to keep breaking off. J3Mrs (talk) 11:56, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
If anything I feel worse today, I'll continue when I can think straight, thanks for the copyedits, I'm sure you will find plenty when I've added a bit more. J3Mrs (talk) 12:11, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
Interestingly Roger Nowell was related to Nicholas Starkie of Cleworth Hall and he's all over these witch trials. I've done the outline but much to be filled in. See you started another witch. J3Mrs (talk) 21:43, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
I did, but I really need to get hold of a printed copy of Potts' The Wonderfull Discoverie book from the library before I can do too much more. I might see if it's possible to write an article on each of those convicted at the Lancashire witch trials. I think there might only be Isabel Roby to go anyway. You're right about Starkie, Poole has quite a bit about him. He might be worth an article as well. EricCorbett23:05, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
Just a quick note to congratulate you on the promotion of Enid Blyton to FA status recently. I know you know all about WP:TFAR and the "pending" list, so this is just a reminder to use them as and when suits you. You (and your talk-page stalkers) may also be interested to hear that there have been some changes at the TFA requests page recently. Nominators no longer need to calculate how many "points" an article has, the instructions have been simplified, and there's a new nomination system using templates similar to those used for DYK suggestions. Please consider nominating an article, or commenting on an existing nomination, and leaving some feedback on your experience. Thank you. BencherliteTalk09:11, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
Hello Eric Corbett. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Boleskine House, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: Source is licensed under GFDL. Thank you. §FreeRangeFrogcroak21:57, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
Then why isn't it attributed as such? That GFDL licence is only relevant to software anyway. I'm rather surprised that you consider the wholesale copying of a web site to Wikipedia without proper attribution to be beyond reproach, or I would be if I didn't already know what incompetent ass-holes the bulk of the admin corps are. Thank you. EricCorbett22:14, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
The website says, at the bottom, "Content is available under GNU Free Documentation License 1.2." Drmies (talk) 03:55, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
And what the GNU licence says is that "You may copy and distribute verbatim copies of the Program's source code ... provided that you conspicuously and appropriately publish on each copy an appropriate copyright notice and disclaimer of warranty". Did you see any such attribution? EricCorbett04:41, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
No, but I quit looking to start playing the Highland Laird, Alistair-Crowley style...it's given as a reference in its first incarnation (created by a certified Thelemist, apparently), but that's hardly the same, yes. Speaking of Satanic things, I am totally failing at this education thing: Sippi can't tell Ronnie James Dio from Ozzy. I explained to her that Ozzy is "the prince of fucking darkness", but even that failed to impress her--she thinks he can't sing so well. What am I to do? Drmies (talk) 04:53, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Glad to hear the new critter has adjusted to his new home. Easy to see you are generous in your love for animals. We are trying to find homes for a rescue pooch right now, the two we have are all we can handle. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER18:02, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
It can be hard to say no sometimes, but say no you sometimes must. We've now got eight ferrets and one cat, and that's about as much as we can handle, to say nothing of the expense. Vet bills for a ferret are at least as much as they are for a dog or a cat, and just like dogs they're susceptible to canine distemper, so need to be regularly vaccinated. They also need to be neutered if they're going to live together in a mixed group, and the current recommendation is chemical neutering, costing £130 every four years. But I'm probably beginning to bore you now. :-) EricCorbett18:42, 5 May 2014 (UTC)
Chemical neutering? Never done that. We got Buster from the animal shelter, he was a puppy and had already been neutered the old fashioned way, with a "N" tattoo to show for it. (like you couldn't tell without the tattoo) We spayed Olive the old fashioned way as well. I guess it is different with ferrets. Now, Olive is constantly trying to mount Buster, who seems to enjoy it, so they are thoroughly confused. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER14:10, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
The deslorelin implant works the same for dogs as it does for ferrets. I'm not sure it's licensed for use in dogs in the USA though, but it is Europe. Surgically neutered ferrets have a potential problem with their tendency to develop adrenal disease, which the implant is also used to treat the symptoms of. EricCorbett15:06, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
I'm reminded that Alan Turing, one of the most brilliant mathematicians of the 20th century, was chemically castrated by the British establishment in the early 1950s for the crime of homosexuality. EricCorbett22:49, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Doing copyedits?
You interested in doing a copyedit on an article I've been helping with that's had almost 70,000 hits since the first of the month? (Yeah, another race horse, just won the Kentucky Derby and it's vandal bait) Montanabw(talk)18:48, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Creepy jockey? Albarado rode Medal Count, not Commanding Curve, or is the other one creepy for a different reason? Montanabw(talk)22:35, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Yup, see [3] They've also invented a drink called a California Chrome; basically a "Chapel Hill" (bourbon, triple sec and lemon) only with lemon liqueur plus orange juice for the California part... But yes, I'd value a copy edit on the article; it's passed GA, but that was before the Derby. I'd like to have a Corbett-sanctioned version, given the number of hits it will be getting for a while. No clue how much a pint of Woodford Reserve runs these days, probably too pricy for my pocketbook, but I'll post a photo of it. ;-) Montanabw(talk)22:27, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
Oh, Woodford is very tasty, and moderately affordable (which still puts it outside of my range). Mrs. Drmies, who doesn't know Jack about bourbon (haha), bought a small bottle of Knob Creek and now, all of a sudden, she likes bourbon too. So I've been spending a lot of time muddling mint with sugar the last few days... Drmies (talk) 04:33, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing my mistake there. I was distracted as a friend arrived in the middle of my edit. I will be off-wiki tonight, having a few ales. Is there any chance you could take a look at Talk:John Leckie and see what you think? There is even a (tenuous) Manchester connection, via the Stone Roses. --John (talk) 17:57, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
I haven't looked at Maggie's article in ages, and to be honest I think it needs more than a few wee tweaks now that entropy has well and truly set in to get it back to GA level. I find that inevitable article decay to be the most depressing aspect of contributing here; no matter what you do today it will be destroyed tomorrow. EricCorbett21:38, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
Not destroyed, just... modified. All the same, I was just saying to my friend, it was rather cool to see words that I (and you) had written being plagiarised by major news sources during the coverage of her death. And, what, several million page views in a few days? Considering all that it is amazing that it has survived as long as it has. Keep up the good work. Let me know when you are finished and I will take out the howevers and correct your spelling of "principle"! Sorry, I've had a couple of beers. --John (talk) 21:47, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
You say "modified" but I'll stick with "destroyed". Did I mis-spell principle? That's not like me at all. All I can think is that that glass of Merlot must have taken over control of my typing finger. EricCorbett21:55, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi, you helped me with the GA and I will do all I can to keep the little sticker but I don't have access to any books here. Any help will be more than welcome. J3Mrs (talk) 11:31, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Eric. I'm in the process of removing sources that aren't good enough but I have to go for an X-ray so I'll be gone for a while. J3Mrs (talk) 12:57, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
Nothing serious I hope. Anyway, I've done a little bit of tidying and I'll see what my local library has. I don't see too much wrong with the article to be honest, so I think a reassessment is a bit OTT. EricCorbett14:21, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
The horrible virus developed into a nasty infection but I expect I'll survive. I've replaced a few refs and dumped some others. J3Mrs (talk) 16:54, 30 April 2014 (UTC)
I didn't think you would, I'm sorry I wasn't more help. I hope he doesn't start on the others, I'm really not in the mood.J3Mrs (talk) 16:14, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
If that article gets delisted I'll be gobsmacked. It's a good idea though for someone to go through old GAs, but it would have been nice to have been told about the reassessment. EricCorbett18:57, 1 May 2014 (UTC)
Maybe this is a good place to bring up a question that I have had for some time. As some of you know, Moni recently came out of retirement long enough to make a few posts on her page. One thing she mentioned was that her FA article, To Kill a Mockingbird, had been fiddled with to its detriment. Looking at the editing history, I found that since her last post when she left saying that all of her articles were in good order an editor came along and began an extensive editing process (starting here: [[4]] ). I reverted his edits and we have an ongoing discussion on the talk page. I don't pretend to be an expert editor capable of writing an article that would meet FA standards, but this editor states that he has taught composition at a college level and certainly does write well enough to extensively improve an article with a FA rating. I'm not sure how to phrase my question, but what I want to know is to what extent do I have the backing of the author of the article and the decisions of those editors that reviewed the article "on my side" and backing me up, so as to speak? In the past when I have run out of arguments about writing style I have told another editor to take a look at Moni's page and tell me if they still knew more about writing than she did, and it has worked. I just can't see that a good editor should go to all the work of writing a FA only to have an editor that has never even brought an article to a GA level claim that their wording is preferable. Gandydancer (talk) 12:51, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
The short answer is "to no extent at all". I've just read that article for the first time, and I have to say that it's in remarkably good condition, especially for a six-year-old FA, so Moni obviously did a good job. I haven't looked at the changes the editor you're concerned about has tried to make, but "teaching composition at college level" doesn't impress me one little bit. Anyway, I've put the article on my watchlist and I'll contribute as I think it appropriate to do so. EricCorbett14:24, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
(talk page stalker)I teach at a college too, and I can tell you that ability to write in general doesn't mean someone knows squat about wikipedia markup and syntax, sourcing policies or WP:V. They also know nothing inherently about encyclopedic tone. WP is a specialized form of writing. Montanabw(talk)21:11, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
Hmmm, Demiurge1000 really ought to put a bit more effort into his reassessment; it's not enough to wave your arms about shouting "grammatical errors" without giving at least a few representative examples. Having said that though I'm inclined to agree with him that the article falls a little short of the GA criteria but for different reasons. I'm not sure I would have listed it as a GA, or would even list it now as a GA, but I don't think the real issue here is grammatical errors, unless they've all been cleaned up since the reassessment was started. EricCorbett22:02, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
I think you need to split the architecture stuff from History into its own Architecture section, when it will probably become obvious that there isn't nearly enough of it. EricCorbett22:04, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
I've made a start, but I can hear the plaintive cry of a kelpie in the distance, so I must get back to that; I'll come back and finish off your copyedit tomorrow. Just a few things in the meantime though:
I think you've probably got two or three images too many for that size of article, which is really breaking up the flow.
You need to be consistent about "Old Rectory" vs. "new rectory".
"The rectory was sold by the church in 2008 and is now a private dwelling again." When was it a private dwelling before?
Thanks for all work so far. I've removed a couple of pics & lost the "again". They did rent it out after the new rectory was built but I can't source it. Can't see the problem with "Old Rectory" vs. "new rectory".— Rodtalk07:08, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Thank you for the extra work put into the article, you'll be happy to know that it meets the GA criteria and passed the GAN. The three of us promoting GAs - just like old times! ☠Jaguar☠22:13, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
Strewth cobber, I thought you meant this type of kelpie - still be good to see some folkloric/myth articles buffed. I did think a few of us should buff fairy ring which combines mycology and folklore....Cas Liber (talk·contribs) 01:35, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
I have fairly good access via uni to journals etc. So I can ferret some fulltexts out if need be. On either kelpies or fairy rings.... Cas Liber (talk·contribs) 02:56, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
Hello Eric, I see you're very busy, but I wonder if you might have a very quick look to see if I'd be completely off my trolley to nominate Reculver as a FAC: I've done loads more to it lately, and feel as though I can't see the wood for the trees. Either it's Really Rather Good, or it's Terribly Wide of the Mark: I'm worried it may be seen as unbalanced or too heavily detailed, and there are acres of footnotes and references. If you are too busy or otherwise disinclined, would you forgive me if I extend the invitation the invitation to your esteemed stalkers? Cheers for now. Nortonius (talk) 21:57, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
That's a considerable piece of work. You've got quite a few citation errors though, footnote #12 and refs #111 and 293 for instance. You've also gone into a little bit too much detail in some areas as well, notably the Ruined church of St Mary section. I think you'd be better making that into a standalone article and replacing that section with a linked summary. EricCorbett00:53, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Eric, it sounds like you had more than a very quick look, I'm very grateful. And these are just the sort of pointers I'm looking for. I've fixed the referencing errors you mention and will check all the others. Yes, I'd wondered about the church, it's the main thing I had in mind that might be unbalanced. Breaking that out for a new article will certainly keep me off the street corners for a few days! I have a vague idea of other candidates for excessive detail, but I'd be happy to let others judge it for that: I think I've been too deep in that article lately to keep a firm grip on my perspective, although obviously I hope there have been improvements. I'll get on with the church. But you don't say I'd be completely off my trolley to think of a FAC, and you only made two edits while you were looking – that's very encouraging, and if you'll permit me I might drop a note here again when I've sorted out the church. Thanks again! Oh, and if you're ever down Brighton way there'll be several beers and one or two other things waiting for you. Cheers. Nortonius (talk) 09:13, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
(stalking) This is definitely a good article that is a good introduction to Reculver. The only comments I can think of off the top of my head are that the article might want more balance towards the Roman end of history, as that is what I believe books generally think is its most important time, while nowadays Whitstable and Herne Bay are more important. Also, "Thanet Way" shouldn't be in scare quotes as that's its actual name, though I have heard people say "Did you see the traffic on the Thanet Way this morning?". Ritchie333(talk)(cont)12:52, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks Ritchie333, and thanks for the pointers! I'll see what I can do about the Roman history, it does look a bit brief; though I did once expand it a bit and then decided what I'd written belonged at Regulbium,[5] I'll have to try a bit harder. The books I look in are much more interested in the Anglo-Saxon and later history. ;o) And I'll get rid of those scare quotes, however scary the traffic is. Nortonius (talk) 15:11, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
I think you've still got too much on the ruined church. Also, the Urban article fifth from bottom in your Bibliography doesn't seem to be linked to from anywhere. EricCorbett19:03, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
Hello Eric, thanks for having another look – yes I keep looking at that church section and thinking it's too long, I'll just have to sharpen my axe and be brave. I noticed that Urban item in the Bibliography doesn't go anywhere when I was checking the referencing errors you mentioned the other day. I dithered and left it in, because it's a basic reference for The Gentleman's Magazine, from which some of the other Bibliog items have been culled: I'll get rid of it, now you mention it. And again, thanks for the edits, I'm always very much appreciative of your time and efforts, not to mention your judgement. I'm still a FA virgin, but I'll have to decide to dive in or leave it alone at some point. Cheers again. Nortonius (talk) 20:55, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
Ok, I think I've wielded that axe quite heavily, and I wonder if it looks better now. I've also added a fair bit about the Romans, per Ritchie333's comment above, hopefully not too much! Any further comments gratefully received... Nortonius (talk) 15:13, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
That's great Eric, thank you very much for your attention, it's been very helpful and productive. I think I might now see about how to nominate it as a FAC. Cheers. Nortonius (talk) 19:17, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
Blimey, I've only gone and done it! I can't tell what I'm feeling, but it's either brave or crazy – I'd say let the insanity begin, but maybe that ship has already sailed! Nortonius (talk) 20:59, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
Copyediting request
Hey Eric, would be eternally grateful if you'd put the kind of copyediting scrutiny only you can do on the California Chrome article. I'm just totally getting bogged down in the minutia of this horse's story. Desperately need someone who is neutral to help with the NPOV. I'm a goner, I've become a #Chromie and have lost all perspective. I'll be back to normal after the Preakness and Belmont races, but until then... oh yeah, and you may want to look over Oxbow_(horse)#Remainder_of_season as most of it was added after the FAC; maybe check the lead again too. Given that the Oxbow article is TFA on Saturday, again, a quick copyedit would not hurt a thing! I owe you a GA review or something, just ping me and I'll tackle it! Montanabw(talk)01:34, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
Belle Vue has quite a few External links, maybe too many, but I think [6] might be worth including. The site has some really interesting images. I added a couple to Bradford Colliery's ELs.
I've never really believed the Wikimedia Foundation's claim that only 13 per cent of editors are female, particularly as editors aren't required to reveal their gender. Added to which I'd say that at least half of the editors I've collaborated with on top-end articles (GA/FA) have identified themselves as female. But why should anyone care whether another editor is male or female anyway? EricCorbett21:21, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
I said a while back that it seems more 25% female on here, and at times it can seem 50-50 agreed. I certainly don't see wikipedia (at least in the circles I'm in) as this male dominated show, but as you say, it might be our masculine charms :-).♦ Dr. Blofeld17:06, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi Eric (and stalkers), I've raised this on the BLP noticeboard but I thought I might get more of a response from here, as I've got a feeling The Nice would be a group you'd be more familiar with than most Wikipedians - a cult 60s band big in its time but not really well remembered these days. To sum it up, David O'List is upset about us citing a book in The Nice's article that claims he was fired from the band (as opposed to leaving of his own accord) and generally downplays his contributions to a lesser extent than he would like. I'm just a bit worried I won't get much out of the noticeboard than "well it's a commercially published book, ergo a reliable source, what's the issue", but I can't find any other source that goes into any depth about his career with the band as much as Martyn Hanson's. Despite the B class assessment, I don't think that's an accurate call, as there's just far too much uncited and questionable content anyway. Advice welcome. Ritchie333(talk)(cont)16:59, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
I don't remember The Nice at all, although I do have fond memories of ELP. O'List's claim that he chose to leave rather than was sacked seems a little implausible to me if the story of the on-stage assault is true. But perhaps he was given a choice, leave or be sacked? Is that what he says happened? EricCorbett22:26, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
Pete Frame’s (very brief) description of “Nice #1” in Rock Family Trees (V.2, p.25) ends with “… O’List left. [The o]thers decided to stay a trio.” Hard to draw a firm conclusion from that, but it seems to suggest a voluntary departure.—Odysseus147905:25, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
The main thrust of the complaint is here and just has vague statements like "it has exceptional claims about me which are untrue and damaging ... I want this article removed". While that's not going to happen, I still think it's worth including his side of the story and not take sides. I've checked my copy of Hanson's book (I added the sourced content in the first place) and he does actually put O'List in a sympathetic light, so I've added a counterpoint which makes things a bit more neutral. I've pinged David about the BLP noticeboard thread, so if he wants to comment further, he should hopefully do so. Ritchie333(talk)(cont)07:54, 20 May 2014 (UTC)
@Ritchie333: I'm aware this is not a sentence that's used often, but this is probably a situation that could benefit from the involvement of Andy Mabbett. Because he was Pink Floyd's biographer, he probably has access to a good deal of the original archive material from the period. – iridescent08:08, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
I’ve had a bit of a dig around and not found a great source. But I now understand it was a single locomotive (not a model as I’d previously assumed) for the Bolton and Leigh Railway. Peterloo: The Case Re-opened (P441) has a passing mention of Mrs Hulton christening the loco, but not from who the name originated. I was hoping it could show that the case was still nationally known at that time. But as there are other Lancashire witch trials I doubt there is a strong enough link even if Stevenson himself named it. So I think that can go on the backburner for now.
Ha it is a little brief. Is there a classification lower than stub? I’ve seen bits on the case such as [7] P195 onwards, when I have time I’ll see what else I can dig up.
Back on the 1612 front @J3Mrs is aware that I’ve been doing a bit of Huntroyde Hall, the seat of the Starkie family. It’s just a couple of miles down the road from Read Hall, the home of Roger Nowell. It also appears the families are related. The Nicholas Starkie (who would have been at Huntroyde by 1612) in Tyldesley witch appears to be the grandson of one Florence Atkinson, who later married a Nowell and is also the mother (probably, maybe grandmother) of Roger Nowell.--Trappedinburnley (talk) 23:21, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
They were indeed related: Nicholas Starkie was a half-nephew to Roger Nowell, the son of Nowell's half-brother Edmond Starkie. EricCorbett23:32, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
.... and I still think the Starkies of Huntroyde would make a separate article. I knew the Lancashire Witch was a locomotive and I assumed it was named for the abundance of witches in Lancashire, I'll have a rummage. J3Mrs (talk) 09:02, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
Many years ago as a young railway enthusiast (=trainspotter) I read about Stephenson's locomotive the Lancashire Witch - it was long before I'd even heard of Pendle or the Lancashire witchcraft trials. I must admit that at the time I assumed "Lancashire witch" just meant a pretty girl from Lancashire. And that may not be far from the truth. The OED gives a secondary meaning for "witch" = "A young woman or girl of bewitching aspect or manners." And in support of this meaning it quotes from Lancashire historian and topographer Thomas Dunham Whitaker's book Whalley (1800): "In..1634 was acted..a play entitled The Witches of Lancaster... The term has since been transferred to a gentler species of fascination, which my fair countrywomen still continue to exert in full force." So, was Whitaker joking, or were lasses from Lancashire widely known as Lancashire witches in the early 1800s? John O'London (talk) 09:04, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
I’d been thinking that because it was big, loud, black and poured smoke was likely enough for the witch association. I assume Whitaker was just trying to improve reader’s perceptions of the area. However on the same page he also says that John Starkie was one of the JPs in the Robinson case! P213 In this version [8] Also he seems to completely blank the 1612 case. I wonder why?
@J3Mrs: I hope we can do Starkies of Huntroyde one day, but it is missing a decent, modern source. I was going to add some from Whitaker at some point but I don’t think there is much.--Trappedinburnley (talk) 21:37, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
I was just ducking out of an edit war on Raleigh (don't ask), when I thought I'd take a look at its famous namesake, and was quite surprised to find no mention of potatoes in it. Given that Blackadder had an entire show on this premise, and I am pretty sure at primary school we were told he was the man who gave us potatoes and tobacco, I wondered why it wasn't in the article, even to debunk it. So if it's a complete myth, where did this whole thing about him and the potato thing come from? Ritchie333(talk)(cont)21:10, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
It's a myth, like so many things we were told at primary school, but I don't know where it originated. For some reason that Raleigh article seems to be prone to edit wars, not least about how his name should be spelled, so I'll not be touching it. EricCorbett22:14, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
Fascinating, particularly because the potato is native to South America, not North America? And you Brits say American schools have issues! Of course, the tobacco thing is kind of real, though John Rolfe really deserves the credit or the blame. We have a cigarette brand named after Sir Walter, though - back in the 1960s, the package even included a portrait. As for myths, however, if you want a bit of fun, see past discussions of whether to include the (mythical) risks of urination at electric fence. LOL! Montanabw(talk)19:07, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
It was in fact the Spanish who introduced the potato to Europe, including England, not Raleigh. And as for tobacco all Raleigh did was to popularise it. EricCorbett20:13, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
Well, that popularization has been working out rather swimmingly, hasn't it? As for french fries, the last time I was in Belgium, there were plenty of people there ready to explain to an American how they are in fact a Belgian invention, not French. For what it is worth, the Belgians do them quite well, although I will pass on using mayonnaise as a condiment and stick with catsup. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER20:36, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
I think using the word invention about deep frying thinly sliced pieces of vegetable is rather hyperbolic. I'd like to see anyone try and patent an obvious idea like that. The French also favour mayonnaise on their chips, and I have to say that I do as well; there's something inherently common about tomato ketchup. On a burger perhaps, if you've run out of mustard, but not on chips. EricCorbett20:59, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
For a real treat, put the fries on a plate and cover them in a thick, savory, meaty chili and shredded cheddar. Preferably with some sliced peppers. Good with beer. Cheddar and bacon also complement them well. If I'm having them with fish, I just sprinkle malt vinegar over the whole thing, although that is harder to find here in the US. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER21:06, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
Outside of major cities, it is impossible to get any curries around here. I guess chili is a North American thing. We grew up with it. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER21:14, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Chili is very popular here too, especially in Indian dishes. And in fact I had a chili con carne only yesterday. Within walking distance of my house we have Turkish, Chinese, Indian, and Mexican food on offer. Not so much English food though, we have to make that for ourselves, except for the ever present fish and chips. EricCorbett21:28, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
I have to drive for everything. All this potato talk is making me want what we call "German fries", medium sliced up potatoes and large sliced onion browned off in an iron skillet and served with pinto beans and sometimes polska kielbasa. Very "country", but another common childhood food growing up in Texas. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER21:36, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
Chippy sauce is an east coast thing. Just had some amazing nachos and chilli and settling down with a beer. Kids in bed. Can't beat it. --John (talk) 22:10, 23 May 2014 (UTC)
You may want to consider using the Article Wizard to help you create articles.
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. This is a notice that the page you created was tagged as a test page under section G2 of the criteria for speedy deletion and has been or soon may be deleted. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia.
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I deleted it as it looked like an obvious but simple mistake, a template made in article space. I've done similar. Once, it took 3 moves to get a page in the right space. I can be a dolt at times. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER15:51, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
Thanks. I meant to create that page on Commons, which I've now eventually managed to do, and I was about to ask for that one on WP to be deleted. I wonder why I still have to log in as Malleus on Commons? I've been using this name for more than a year now. EricCorbett15:59, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
You should be logging in as Eric. Malleus is a different account that is blocked here but not there. The logins for the different wikis is really screwed up. I find the system logging me out every couple of hours, then mysteriously logging me back in. Ever since the "security alert" a couple weeks back. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER16:43, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
I can't log in to Commons as Eric, I have to log in as Malleus. I've done what I needed to do over there now anyway, and apart from creating new pages I rarely need to log in anyway. Strange though, as I thought we had a unified login system. EricCorbett16:52, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
Try it at a couple of other wikis, Simple.wikipedia.org, etc. If Eric won't login, we need to get Mbisanz to fix it. My original account was Pharmboy, then in 08 I moved to this account, but kept Pharmboy as an alt. for insecure logins. What are you getting when you log in as Eric Corbett at commons? Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER16:56, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
That's not me, that's a different Eric. The welcome message on the talk page was posted on 13 February 2012, well before I switched from Malleus. That does explain why Commons won't accept my WP password though. EricCorbett17:09, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
Ah, then we definitely need Mbisanz here because that was not supposed to happen. Your login is supposed to be on all wikis, maybe something was overlooked. Pinging him, hopefully he will show up with his magic Crat wand. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER17:26, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
Another problem: [11]. It is as if your name is local only and not on all wikis. Is there a step you need to unify them? I thought since 2008 it was automatic. Try going here to merge your accounts and see what messages you get. It should be automatic. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER17:29, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
The Commons account was created automatically in February 2012, although its only extant edit dates from June 2013. Does “automatically” mean the SUL system based it on an account created on another project? Anyway, its preëxistence probably prevented the ‘globalization’ of the account here in May 2013. There remains the possibility of usurpation, but I don’t know what conditions apply.—Odysseus147918:09, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
The point is, the current account was created by a Bureaucrat a year or so ago, so these problems should have been found along the way. This is why I pinged Mbisanz, who is quite adept at getting to root causes of problems like this, and who created the Eric Corbett account for Eric. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER18:47, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
To be fair it was the first article I'd tried to create in the Creator namespace, which I'd never heard of before. Only problem was that I created it on the wrong Wiki. EricCorbett18:33, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
FA review if interested
We need to update the shirt...
Hello Eric. I'm not quite sure if you're interested on the subject, but I wanted to ask you if you would be willing to take a look at Megadeth and leave suggestions on what should be corrected at the review page? I've noticed that you have an experience with this procedure, so I thought to give you a call. Everything the best.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 10:39, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
@Dennis. I've obviously realised for some considerable time that I'm not really welcome here, but unfortunately for Wikipedia I'm a necessary evil if it ever wants to get better. Those who come after me may not be as soft on horrors such as split infinitives or ending a sentence with a preposition as I've been. EricCorbett20:47, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
Some of us find you amusing and not sure what all the fuss is about. You ARE thorough, however, and anyone who wants an article to really be GA or FA quality will appreciate you. Those concerned only with getting a pip on their user page will see you as a pain in the arse. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER20:56, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
I've just read your screed on NYB's talk page, interesting. I wonder if he'd like to try writing a GA or an FA today, or even apply for admin again? Things were very different back in his day, and his and others' rose-tinted view of those days is one of the things that's holding this project back. But then of course NYB is a saint and I'm a sinner, so nobody listens to me. EricCorbett21:04, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
It wasn't my best effort at being concise, that I will grant you. I think that anyone that has been an Arb for 7 years has had no choice but to be removed from the dirty details down here among us peasants. In a way, it isn't his fault, but I would encourage him to look around once he retires from Arb duty in December. I don't have an issue with Brad, but I'm pretty sure he isn't a fan of mine. That won't stop me from having a sincere dialog. Dennis Brown | 2¢ | WER21:10, 24 May 2014 (UTC)
Eric, can you take a closer look at the corrections I've made to the article? I know that sometimes discussions like these can be annoying, but I really think that you should re-evaluate your vote. I've been working hard on that page since October last year and it would be a pity if it's failed for one banal misunderstanding.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 18:59, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
The singular/plural issue still isn't completely sorted out. See "... by which time Megadeth were six weeks into the recording of its third album" Also some of the changes make the text read a little oddly in places now, such as"After more than a year since its last concert, Megadeth returned as a live act in June 1997 .... That would be less jarringly written as something like "After more than a year since the band's last concert ...". There are still also some prose issues, such as "... usually regarding feuds and problems with former Metallica bandmates. The feud stemmed from his ejection from the band ..." Why is feuds first plural and then singular? EricCorbett12:36, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
I've popped my head into the FA review, and if I have time I may comment more. It strikes me that it might be worth, if there's interest, of setting up A-class reviews on Wikipedia:WikiProject Rock music rather than trying to do the jump from GA to FA in one hit, which Megadeth would be an ideal candidate. I think it's obvious now my money's firmly in the "Eric is welcome here" camp, but equally I am not trying to give the impression I have my head stuffed up his arse either. He gets my vote from what he does, not who he is. Ritchie333(talk)(cont)17:11, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
I know an FA when I see one, and this article isn't there yet. It's been suggested elsewhere that I've opposed this article's promotion either because I'm being a vindictive twat or because I stupidly believe User:Curly Turkey to be the nominator. But neither is true, I simply left my oppose on what I perceived to be a failure to meet FA criterion 1a after deciding to withdraw from the review because of the unpleasant atmosphere that was developing. And my opinion hasn't changed, I still don't think it meets 1a. EricCorbett17:30, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Just to put the ferret thing into context I don't collect ferrets I simply have a few as pets, just as I have my cat as a pet. But over the last few years I've helped raise more than £15,000 for ferret welfares in the North West of England, something I'm in no way ashamed of whatever anyone's opinion of ferrets. As for Curly Turkey least said soonest mended, but looking through WP:WBFAN I see myself at #12 with 45 FA credits, and Curly Turkey nowhere. Tells its own story I think. EricCorbett18:05, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
My cat died last year at the ripe old age of 19 and a half, and I do miss the love and affection she always gave me, even when she jumped off my lap, onto the keyboard, and started to mash the keys a lot. Any pet that gives you love and affection is a good thing to have, and I'm impressed with the charity work you've done too. A friend of mine has been involved in badger sanctuaries, and put up some really cute pictures of baby badgers, though he also noted you don't want to get to close to them, as their claws really hurt, even as babies. Ritchie333(talk)(cont)18:13, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Badgers and ferrets belong to the same family, the Mustelidae (yet another article that needs work), and I'm forever warning kids who want to hold a ferret to watch out for their claws if they've got bare arms. It's not that they mean to scratch, it's just that they've got powerful digging claws, and if they get wriggly you're likely going to get scratched. EricCorbett18:24, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Eric, don't get me wrong, I think your input has been really constructive so far and improved the article's quality (a bit). My thought was, if you truly believe the article isn't worth the FA standards, keep your word as it is. To Ritchie, when you have time, please finish the review. I know that this thing turned out to be a peer review, but what can you do, the previous one didn't receive much attention. Referring to Ritchie's previous comment, I intended to take the article to an A-class review, but those weren't available, as you know. I'm aware that the article is beyond the GA criteria, and not quite to the FA; but I'm not sure whether it is closer to GA or FA.--Вик Ретлхед (talk) 19:44, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
What does it matter? If the article meets all of the FA criteria in the opinion of other reviewers then it will no doubt be promoted regardless of my opinion of Curly Turkey. EricCorbett19:59, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Vic, I'll see what I can do, but I have to admit my gut feeling is it isn't likely to pass criteria 1a too, and as Eric has adequately explained above, I am confident his judgement is likely to be correct. Nevertheless, the more comments I give, the better the article will be if they get acted on. I've got no idea how to set up A-class reviews, but I've started a discussion on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rock music#A class reviews, and hopefully we'll get some input out of that. Ritchie333(talk)(cont)20:05, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
Nope, I would not. I understand that GA is getting to be pretty sloppy these days though, not like it was in my time. EricCorbett17:48, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
I think that reciprocal wikicup points may be a factor, that and the backlog. Yet when it tightens up, then we get trolls who want to fail things for stupid reasons. I guess there's always GAR, but that's a dramaboard. Montanabw(talk)20:46, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
I wouldn't have passed it either. It's barely start class IMO. It doesn't have to be particularly long or comprehensive but the quality and depth of info presented should be a lot better.♦ Dr. Blofeld21:03, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
Dota 2 FAC
I appreciate your critique. I feel like you are not sugar-coating anything and have a genuine best interest in seeing pages only deserving of FA status passing, so I'd welcome any further comments. DARTHBOTTOtalk•cont22:44, 30 May 2014 (UTC)
