User talk:E. Brown/Archive 10

Re: Stat

Wow, truly incredible. Quick question, though. How did you come up with that death total? I came up with about 2000. That'd be a good stat for the History of the United States (since 1988), or even in both of the lede of the 2004 and 2005 seasons. --♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:00, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I went with the 1800 figure for Katrina. I don't think there are 800 people still missing, more than two years after the storm. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 04:18, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'll get to it... ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 04:07, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I know NCDC has plenty of info, and there are abundant NWS reports. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:01, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cool, I can't wait for the hall of fame to get online :) ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 22:12, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Good luck. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:03, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

For a user page, it might be a little large, particularly since it might be more than one page, but if anyone says anything, just say that big brother is guarding your back. ;) --♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:28, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If it's going to be less than 100 kb, I'd just put it on one page. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:30, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh! Well, that's huge, then. :) ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:01, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Military history WikiProject coordinator election

The Military history WikiProject coordinator selection process is starting. We are aiming to elect nine coordinators to serve for the next six months; if you are interested in running, please sign up here by February 14! TomStar81 (Talk) 02:56, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Military history WikiProject Newsletter : Issue XXIII (January 2008)

The January 2008 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
This has been an automated delivery by BrownBot (talk) 23:42, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Hall of Fame

Very nice! All in all, though, it looks great. Technically speaking I have one qualm, in that some of the images overlap and create a lot of white space. Also, I thought the Great Hurricane of 1780 was in there... ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 17:39, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I realize you said only since 1800, but I figured the deadliest Atlantic hurricane on record would warrant its place in the hall :) My recommendation - this June, have two sets of nominations. One for Atlantic storms (maybe pick 3 out of a list of 10 - hell, there are tons of Atlantic storms still worthy to get into the hall), and start with the global project with EPAC nominees. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:21, 8 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Barnstar

		The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
		For contributing so much to the article Hurricane Ivan, I User Swirlex award you this Tireless Contributor Barnstar.

Re: My page

Thanks for the compliments. Here's the clarification about Hazel's winds. The 100 mph winds in the Mid-Atlantic region is based on a combination of the MWR, HURDAT, and other sources. The 1954 MWR lists peak gusts of 90 mph "from the Carolinas through New York," and other sources list high wind speeds and damages in Ontario, Canada. Additionally, the best track data indicates maximum sustained winds of 100 mph when Hazel was inland over North Carolina. Although HURDAT has numerous inaccuracies, the data seems consistent with the MWR and the fact that peak winds are usually unmeasured in cyclones. I apologize for the flowery additions to your excellent HHOF, but some of your storms feature unconventional writing and present POV. For example, Opal apparently "inhaled a pocket of dry air" and Andrew was a person who "made no mystery of his intentions." Additionally, I thought it adequately addressed the unique nature of the inductees. I wanted to add more facts if they conformed to your personal preferences; it's fair. In exchange, I recently reverted some vandalism on your user page. I've also started a personal list of unofficial Category 5 Atlantic hurricanes. Here you go; hopefully, you'll enjoy it when I'm finished. It's slightly similar to your Hall of Fame. CVW (Talk) 23:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Military history WikiProject coordinator election

The February 2008 Military history WikiProject coordinator election has begun. We will be selecting nine coordinators to serve for the next six months from a pool of fifteen candidates. Please vote here by February 28! --Eurocopter tigre (talk) 12:30, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Hall of Fame for 2008

Thanks for the breaking news story. Yes Eric, we're now at the halfway point between the end of last season and the beginning of the next season. In a few weeks we should find out which names are retired from last year. Those five storms are certainly appropriate for automatic inclusion. When will the nominees be ready for the rest of the inductees, and will there be any outside of the Atlantic?? Live from New Jersey, this has been Hurricanehink. 00:50, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Heh, I suck at waiting. <!-- --> But yea, if I were in charge of nominating some storms for the EPAC list, this is what I'd put in (note: I merely added a lot of storms to allow for a wide variety of choices). 1858 San Diego hurricane, 1939 California tropical storm, 1959 Mexico hurricane, 1975 unnamed hurricane, Liza 76, Madeline 76, Paul 82, Iwa 82, Ekeka 92, Iniki 92, John 94, Ismael 95, Linda 97, Pauline 97, Paka 97, Elida 02, Kenna 02, Adrian 05, Ioke 06, and 2006 Central Pacific cyclone. Unfortunately, I can't think of any others that should be in a Hall of Fame, and finding that list of 20 was a bit of a stretch. An interesting idea would be to have users nominate one storm from each basin (other than Atlantic and EPAC) for each year. If they pick a poor nomination, you could veto it, but think of it - if you could only pick one storm from the NIO, it would have to be pretty notable. Your call, though. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:14, 22 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding not being US biased, I just think that the "storm that leaves such an impact that it echos through time" depends on where you are. A person in Bermuda will surely think Fabian as the worst storm on record; likewise with Juan in Canada. Good idea with the voting. Oh, and BTW, I tried hard to get a larger list of EPAC names, so obviously there were some lesser notable ones. And yea, I've seen those wallets before. I'm hoping they'll get some more wallets done before the season starts, as the relevant section on here indicates such data is available for every storm from 1958 to the present in the Atlantic. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 04:47, 24 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Heh, sorry! I try and be the calming one. But yea, if we give each voter the list, and tell them to pick 3, then we could take the top 5 or so. Should the first round of voting just be the EPAC, or should there be a list of like 15 worldwide storms (outside of Atlantic)? <!-- --> It's your call, though. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 20:08, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Okeydoke - this is without looking at yours. <!-- --> But yea, I'd start off with the EPACs this year. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:47, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Argh. OK, that works about Ioke. Hurricane Tara is a good candidate, but I find it odd there is next to no information on it, anywhere. I'm not going to do a Wiki crusade until I find more info, but for such a deadly storm, surely there would be some good supporting references. I have a sneaky suspicion there was an error in attributing those deaths to Tara. According to the Hurricane Archive, an initial report on the death toll for Hurricane Hattie was about 500, which was two weeks after Hattie struck. For clarification, Hattie crossed into the EPAC and struck southeastern Mexico, and two weeks later Tara struck Mexico. That's just one I don't feel very keen on. Regarding the 1858 San Diego hurricane, I don't want to see two candidates for the same, similar reason (1858 vs. 1939 in terms of a California landfall). I feel the 1939 California storm is much more deserving, given how recent it is, as well as how deadly and damaging it was. The 1975 hurricane was certainly interesting. HOF worthy? That's debatable. Unusual location is on par with me on intensity. One thing I have against the storm is that it might not be the only one of its kind. There was the cyclone back in November of 2006, which was further north. Had it been classified, it would've been a strong tropical storm only a few hundred miles south of Alaska. I haven't done a detailed search of the archives, but simply on the basis of the 2006 one I'd say no. That comes down to Liza. That would've been my #11. So, if you remove my Ioke, I'll replace it with Liza. Now that I've made yours look bad, I'll make mine look good. Regarding Linda, it has held that record for over 10 years. If something comes along and beats, hell, we could have a vote whether to remove it. However, I think it deserves a place as a nomination, as the previous record was a full 13 mb higher than Linda's minimum. John is the longest-lived tropical cyclone worldwide. I think any important worldwide record deserves, at the very least, a nomination. Kenna's intensification rate was pretty incredible (not quite Wilma, but remember, this isn't the Atlantic). The first advisory predicted a minimal tropical storm within 72 hours; at the 72 hour mark, Kenna was a Cat. 5. It underwent the official designation of explosive deepening, which the article says is rarely observed in the Western Hemisphere. Kenna was the second most intense tropical cyclone in EPAC history, and was the third most intense hurricane to strike Mexico. Also, it was retired, which itself is a rarity in the EPAC. Good luck reading that, Eric, and it's your move now :) ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 04:11, 29 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That sounds very fair. Now that's what I call a bi-partisan compromise! :) ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:01, 30 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ouch. A several page paper is always tough, but good luck with that. I'd say maybe go for 10 total, meaning us plus 8 more. Ten is a nice number. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 21:22, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

All I can say is that admins are typically overworked and under-appreciated. Regarding the people, I was also thinking Mitchazenia, Juliancolton, Seddon69, CWY2190, and Hello32020, for a total of 10 voters. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 23:10, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My last two choices aren't terribly active any more in the WPTC (though they still edit occassionally). Seddon69 is active on the IRC channel, and he talks tropical cyclones every day. It's your call. You're the prez in this little gang. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds good; now work on that paper! ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:54, 2 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You should give me more credit. I'm a smart guy, after all, and it took me maybe 5 milliseconds to debunk your code ;) Looks good though. When will you send out the ballots? ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:07, 3 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Heh. I opt to be surprised for when you show me the Atlantic nominations tomorrow. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:38, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, my mistake. Let's hope the voting process will end without any bipartisan warfare ;) ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:58, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Anarchy or monarchy is really the best form of government. Look how successful the great empires were in history. ;) ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:02, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Let's hope you don't end up like the French monarchs just prior to Napoleon. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:19, 4 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That looks good, and here comes a big "Ooooooh" from me. Ooooooh, I didn't realize that you'd be doing ballots separately. I thought you'd be doing one grand ballot (with like 3 votes for EPAC and 5 for Atlantic), like this year being the year of having Atlantic with Pacific. Now I see your madness method, and I like splitting them up. Yea, that works well. You should send it out today. And remember, the point of the HoF, in your words, are "something to lower stress levels", so don't get upset if you forget to do it ;) ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 15:57, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

2008 Hall of Fame Voting

Here are my votes. (Commented out encoded to retain secrecy) <!-- --> ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 19:22, 13 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nice, and that works. I can't wait to see the results. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:24, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

My votes are **encoded** BTW, thanks! It took my a while to design that, but it looks cool. :) Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 02:16, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That may be true, it is a cool signature. ;) Juliancolton ^Tropical ^Cyclone 02:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) Thanks for asking me! Following Hink, I'll also encode my votes. All votes are in SNBR. <!-- --> -- RattleMan 02:24, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm surprised you didn't figure out my scheme! Think the "big database". -- RattleMan 02:38, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Haumea

Did Mike Brown say which daughters? I assume not Pele, but there are several others. kwami (talk) 04:36, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind, I see he didn't. kwami (talk) 04:46, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. I added a good external link at Haumea in case you're still curious. kwami (talk) 04:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Re: 1949 Storm

Interesting... The article on List of natural disasters by death toll narrows it down to Eastern Guatemala. This unofficial site confirms that the hurricane "devastated the Yukatan Penisnsula, Honduras and Guatemala". However, there is no evidence the hurricane was definitely responsible for it, and not just a contributing factor. Maybe it's worthy of bringing attention to the NHC? ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:56, 6 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I got a response from Eric, regarding this system. He did some digging, and mentioned the worst of the flooding was October 19-21, which is too delayed from the cyclone impact to be considered direct. However, it could saturated the soil before another bout of rain set the flooding in motion. Thegreatdr (talk) 13:26, 31 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Congrats

I suppose that I'd might as well congratulate you on your graduation. Miss Madeline | Talk to Madeline 16:08, 17 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yo from New Jersey

Greetings Eric! I hope you're still on this plane of earth, but that sounds like quite a salty piece of land you've found. Argh, I would kill for weather like that; here in New Jersey, it's been in the 90's with heat index into the 100's, and the humidity is horrible. The tropics are boring, work is grueling, and my town is getting too crowded for my liking. Enough of me complaining. Go enjoy the vacation while you can! ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:32, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Hey Eric. Hopefully by the time you read this you will have greatly enjoyed your last day out there. And jeez, that is a busy summer. I'll bet you were disappointed at the results of the last HoF ballot, so we'll see if more interest occurs if it is done in July. But again, WP always has to take a back seat when it comes to RL. I hope you won't be leaving WP for good, as you've been there longer than I have. BTW, I created 1851 Atlantic hurricane season, pretty much meaning we will eventually have every season article from 1851-present. Any comment on that? ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 18:00, 11 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nice, it'll be a nice birthday present to have the HoF ballot in July. Maybe it'll pull something like last year, when there was an Atlantic storm active at the same time. Regarding the AHS's, I don't think it'll be a lot of white space. There are a lot of fairly notable storms, including six major hurricanes hitting the US. Also, think of it. Due to lack of records, most of the storms affected land, which makes for a more interesting article. Did you read 1851 Atlantic hurricane season, by the way? So I take it you're back from vacation by now. Hopefully it was a good trip. Oh, and pulling a Roger Clemens is one thing. Pulling a Brett Favre, in which you would threaten retirement after every year, will warrant me blocking you and forcing you to help me with 1851-1870! :P ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:03, 15 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

could you please do me a favor?

Hello,

I am a master student at the Institute of Technology Management, National Tsing Hua University, Taiwan. Currently I am wrapping up my master thesis titled “Can Wikipedia be used for knowledge service?” In order to validate the knowledge evolution maps of identified users in Wikipedia, I need your help. I have generated a knowledge evolution map to denote your knowledge activities in Wikipedia according to your inputs including the creation and modification of contents in Wikipedia, and I need you to validate whether the generated knowledge evolution map matches the knowledge that you perceive you own it. Could you please do me a favor?

1. I will send you a URL link to a webpage on which your knowledge evolution map displays. Please assign the topic (concept) in the map to a certain cluster on the map according to the relationship between the topic and clusters in your cognition, or you can assign it to ‘none of above’ if there is no suitable cluster.
2. I will also send a questionnaire to you. The questions are related to my research topic, and I need your viewpoints about these questions.

The deadline of my thesis defense is set by the end of June, 2008. There is no much time left for me to wrap up the thesis. If you can help me, please reply this message. I will send you the URL link of the first part once I receive your response. The completion of my thesis heavily relies much on your generous help.

Sincerely

JnW^talk 13:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your advice. I will try my best. :) JnW^talk 06:36, 16 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Aloha from Honolulu!

My little slice of Paradise

I didn't remember dying but I found heaven. It was pretty much Paradise out here and here. Low 80's; constant, gentle breeze; white sand beach, crashing waves and a luxury oceanview villa... How are things back on the eastern seaboard? Hot, I understand. How's life on the project? -- RattleMan 08:20, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's quite a coincidence, but the same day you arrived back home from Hawaii, I began my vacation to Hawaii. We just got back from a vacation of staying at a resort on Waikiki Beach, and also of a seven-day cruise around the islands. I kept myself away from the Internet these past twelve days, so I'm just beginning to check up on the tropics again. The only mention of the tropics I had was when some of our tour guides spoke of a major disaster that took place in 1992, and I was able to immediately identify it as Iniki. We also revisted a place we went to back in 1999 that still had the signs of Iniki, but that has since been cleaned up by 2008. -- RattleMan 08:20, 22 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

HoF 2008 - Hurricanehink reporting

Greetings Eric. This is Hurricanehink, reporting after a delay due to unforeseen circumstances, and right on time for the ballot to be finished. A fresh blast from the past is certainly appropriate for today.

My votes, from first pick to last, are: 1) 1825 Santa Ana Hurricane 2) 1837 Racer's Storm 3) 1869 Saxby Gale 4) Bay St. Louis Hurricane of 1819 5) 1867 San Narcisco Hurricane

It was a tough choice, but one based on both historical legacy and its actual impact.

From New Jersey - ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:34, 16 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I personally think Saxby should go in, due to its legacy. The Nova Scotia one was certainly important, though I feel the same impact could have happened with any extratropical storm. After all, the "Nova Scotia" hurricane didn't even hit Nova Scotia - it hit Newfoundland! Saxby Gale, on the other hand, was predicted a year in advance, and was a rare Maine hurricane. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:20, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, oh, oh! I am leaning toward Bay St. Louis not being in. It seems like a rather average north Gulf Coast hurricane. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 02:49, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

There are several major hurricanes which strike the northern Gulf Coast. It is sad how common it is. And no, I didn't read between the lines. Maybe I need new glasses, or perhaps I'm too busy to decode that! ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:29, 18 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's gotta be a typo. What was the other listing? two still lower barometer readings - and what was that one being compared to? ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 05:00, 19 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm somewhat here. I don't buy any reading before 1900 that is below 900 mb, especially one below 850. Oh, and I do know what file to look at for the answer. I'm just too lazy to figure it out (not to mention I like a surprise when the timing is appropriate). My top ten are Vamei 01 (one in 400 year event), Vera 59 (deadliest Japanese disaster, IIRC), Nina 75 (one of the deadliest worldwide TC's in recent times), Durian 06 (due to impact in Philippines and Vietnam), Tip 79 (record worldwide pressure), Gay 89 (deadliest typhoon in Malay Peninsula in recent times), Maemi 03 (worst South Korea typhoon), Ike 84 (one of the deadliest and costliest Philippine typhoon), Karen 62 (due to damage on Guam), and Nari 01 (costliest Taiwan typhoon, per here). So the choices probably could've been better, but I think that's a fine group of storms there. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 04:06, 22 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Truly an incredible basin, with some incredible storms. You didn't specify how many I should vote for, so I'm doing five. I'm going to go with Vera, Nina 75, Tip, Ike 84, and though you didn't list it, I'm voting for Typhoon Maemi in 2003 (worst South Korea typhoon in recent times), since your list was limited to Philippines, China, and Japan. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 01:19, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So wait. Are we supposed to vote or anything? ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 00:21, 26 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry man. I have been busy in real life, and what little time I spend on Wikipedia, I spend it doing important edits to articles. Yes, that means I have been neglecting my user page. To be honest, I really don't care too much about the hall of fame stuff. Regarding the project communication, generally it is hit or miss. If someone sees a page that isn't touched, then they wouldn't think twice to edit like crazy and finish it. On the other hand, if someone sees a page that is being worked on, and they too want to work on in, then there's usually some talk between the two parties. It's slightly unfortunate there isn't a page where everyone can say what they are working on at the immediate moment, but at the same time, some people go from article to article and make only sporadic edits. Back to the more important point, I'm sorry if my recent lack of posting has annoyed you. Keep in mind that I too only have a few weeks left till I go to college (which I am going to be a junior), and I am working plus taking summer classes. My editing has been severely cut down, and I wish I could have more hours in the day to give time to everyone in my life. But there's only 24 hours in a day, and I have to put my time into where it is ultimately most useful. Some advice from a mid-college hurricane enthusiast: enjoy the weeks while they last, because I know firsthand the difficulty in monitoring classwork and hurricane activity in the first two crucial months of college. Cheers! ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 05:25, 1 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings Eric. This will be the final vote from Hurricanehink. The job has had its perks, but the pay was no good! :P Quite a bunch of storms, and my first vote will be for 1993's Tropical Storm Bret. Cheated out of retirement, Bret has come back twice since then, including a potentially severe visit in 1999 when it caused the least damage for a U.S. landfalling major hurricane. But this is about the 1993 storm. It deserves to be idolized for the 173 people who died in Venezuela, such people who were likely not ready for a tropical storm moving across the northern coast of South America. The next vote is for New Orleans Hurricane of 1915. If only historians had paid enough attention to previous storms, later catastrophes might not have happened. The 1915 storm just shows how vulnerable the area is. My third and last vote is for Joan 88, which, like Bret 93, caused unprecedented damage for a tropical cyclone in an unusual region. It really affected the history of Nicaragua, which is an important factor in my voting. It is another example in countless of storms that authorities need to be prepared for whatever mother nature can throw at us, even when we least expect it.

Well, I suppose that is that. As the seasons pass, it's up to the memories to reveal how time has truly passed, and through passing what has become timeless. From New Jersey, back to you in Atlanta. ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 03:33, 2 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

<!-- -->

Yea, those storms seem fine. <!-- --> ♬♩ Hurricanehink (talk) 14:50, 8 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Pre-1800 storms in the HoF?

I was wondering if you're ever going to consider inclusion of storms that occurred before 1800 in the Hurricane Hall of Fame? Surely the deadliest Atlantic hurricane of all time, the Great Hurricane of 1780 that killed 22,000 people, deserves a spot. Evidence (such as the fact that every tree on the island was ripped out) shows that winds could have been near 200mph when it hit Barbados! A truly remarkable storm in every sense of the word. I'm just wondering what reason you have for not including storms that occurred before 1800 in the list? Also, are you ever going to create your HoF for Pacific storms, or at least put it up like you did the Atlantic ones? Or am I just missing it? bob rulz (talk) 20:31, 7 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, okay. Thanks for the explanation. It makes sense. I was just curious and mainly the 1780 hurricane was just so significant that I think it just can't be ignored and I see you haven't ignored it. bob rulz (talk) 03:45, 14 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]