User talk:Dev920/Archive5

Dev920, sorry for putting the message on the top, but I want to make sure you get this message. I'm sandy, just started as communications manager at Wikimedia. InNewsWeekly from Boston, said that they had been in contact with you, but that you had gone MIA. They wanted to talk to someone regarding this portal for an article. Bastique has agreed to talk to them on behalf of wikipedia, and answer some questions they may have. If you are still available, and would rather continue talking to them, then let me know. (I assumed that you are probably super busy right now) My email is [e-mail]. Cheers and best, :) Sandy

Archives

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

---

Please, leave me a message. I am happy to be help or be helped.

http://www.edonnelly.com

Query

were/are you a pupil at CCHS? (so am i) and how is our skl prejudiced??? how would they make your life hell?? they dont seem THAT bad... what is going on up in the admin?

How do you upload a newly designed Barnstar?--Zazzer Sorry for the mistakes! :( --Zazzer

How do you find the newly uploaded picture page? Thx!--Zazzer

How do you add a link from one page to another? --Zazzer

Member list

I've changed the member list on the main page of the project into a fairly simple table. It takes up much less space. Can AWB use that or do we need another simpler list? WJBscribe ^(WJB talk) 00:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, not quite sure what you mean. You'd rather the table didn't have the (talk|contrib) bit at all? Just the names as a link to user pages? WJBscribe ^(WJB talk) 00:21, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, I think I see. They don't look like that to me. But my laptop has a wide screen. I'll change it to only 4 in each row and see if that sorts it. WJBscribe ^(WJB talk) 00:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Does that now look right on your screen? WJBscribe ^(WJB talk) 00:29, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Articles you might like to edit, from SuggestBot

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Cleanup Bisexual chic Gia Carangi Tawhid Merge Historic background of the Sunni-Shi'a split St John's wort List of Societies at St Andrews University Add Sources Civil unions in Argentina Civil unions in Croatia Hella von Sinnen Wikify Julian Clary Southern Decadence Anna German Expand Same-sex marriage in France Technologist Chad Michael Murray

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If you have feedback on how to make SuggestBot better, please tell me on SuggestBot's talk page. Thanks from ForteTuba, SuggestBot's caretaker.

P.S. You received these suggestions because your name was listed on the SuggestBot request page. If this was in error, sorry about the confusion. -- SuggestBot 18:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Invitation

Thanks for the invite, but I focus on music articles. However, feel free to contact me if an overlap between that and LGBTQ studies arises. Hyacinth 23:22, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Heterophobia

Dev920 stated: "Yes, it does belong under our scope. Heterophobia is mostly held by homosexuals. Definitely in our area." By that logic, homophobia doesn't belong in your area - it belongs in "Heterosexual Studies", if there is such a discipline. Nkras 23:26, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In other words, you want it both ways. At least you're...consistent. It's all about the control of language. This is some encyclopedia. :-s :-/ Nkras 23:35, 16 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You helped choose Peloponnesian War as this week's WP:AID winner

Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive. This week Peloponnesian War was selected to be improved to featured article status. Hope you can help.

AzaBot 12:16, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You've been nominated

I've also taken the liberty of linking your talk page archives to this page. -- Samuel Wantman 07:21, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pro Ecclesia Et Pontifice

I have created a brief article on Pro Ecclesia Et Pontifice in response to your request. Loyola 12:03, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello Dev

This is your adoptee, qwertyca. Sorry about the delay in getting back to you - I've had a busy week. I have two questions to begin with actually

1) How do you become an admin? Like, do you have to perform a certain number of non-reverted edits etc before you're qualified etc? 2) What is Wikipedia's policy on image copyright? I read it but I found it a bit too confusing. Basically, I want to grab an image off the web for use in the Floricienta article (a promotional picture of the actress basically). Can I do this under the "fair use" doctorine?

Thanks

--Qwertyca 22:39, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your RfA

Hi Dev920! Good to see you around and taking the plunge for adminship. Since it looks like your RfA will succeed, I'd like to tell you a couple of things:

1. You appear to be a deletionist. That's fine and Wikipedia needs more of them, but don't delete things out of process.
2. And (seriously) remember not to bite everyone who opposes you. I notice you have shown frustration in the past, and that has led you to post slightly unkind messages on people's talk pages. Remember, as an admin you'll get frustrated often. Don't show it, and you'll do fine!

I look forward to working with you in the future!

Yuser31415 22:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In light of your answers to my question I said you are scum who should never be allowed to be an admin and should be driven away from wikipedia ASAP or maybe not.. --Larry laptop 23:41, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Knowpedia

Has vandalised your page, mine and Coelacans. This in retaliation for Coel having him stripped of Vandalproof for using it to speedy delete Gay icon. Do you want to report this, or do you want me to? Jeffpw 23:34, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• Yes, I posted just above you on ANI. When do you get your magic wand, dear????????? Not soon enough to suit me. 02:15, 20 January 2007 (UTC)~

Thanks for the note on ANI, Dev. I know I for one will sorely miss that pleasant fellow's delightful company. — coelacan talk — 02:50, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your last comment on your RFA

Please go back and reread. I think you forgot to type the word not. And Good LUCK!!!!! Jeffpw 23:37, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your Rfa

I believe they you destroyed a community in wikipedia. I believe the people who wanted it to be deleted also did. I do not feel as if you are the only one who did. I agree with you that it was a mess but I believe that we could of worked to make it better. The better thing for you to of done is bring up the problems in the Esperanza voting. I believe if you talked abou the problems we would of gotten rid of the council and SG and done things in a more open way as a commenity. I would like to also praise you for doing something that you know could of made people hate you but you still did it because you thought it was right. Have a nice week and god bless. --James, La gloria è a dio 00:54, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

		The Original Barnstar
		This is for doing what you thought was right even though it would probably hurt you. James, La gloria è a dio 00:57, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hello

Hi Dev920,

I believe that you don't have any intention whatsoever against Muslims (I view your response to my question as sincere and have thus changed my vote to neutral.) however I do believe that you sometimes make judgments with such certainty that are improper, not always right, and moreover may hurt others. But I think you would become a great wiki-editor as you earn more experiences (both wikipedia and *maybe* real life).

Cheers, --Aminz 07:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. The editor who added the sentence you didn't like was me. Please read the Cambridge history of Islam here[1]

You might also want to see this section [2]

Cheers again. --Aminz 07:13, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Please note that I may support you in your next RfA (but not this time) since you are a very active and good contributer, and that must be certainly appreciated. --Aminz 07:19, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thinking of you

Judging from your RfA, this is a pretty good representation of your Wiki civility level. Sheesh...even Mother Teresa had her off days. Hang in their, kid. I have faith in your nomination, and even more faith that you'll be a great admin here. Cheers, Jeffpw 14:29, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

RSVP

I received your invitation on my Talk page to WikiProject LGBT studies. I would love to help! I am not very familiar with the concept of WikiProjects. Can you tell me more? Thanks! Joie de Vivre 17:04, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, Dev920, it's nice to hear from you again. Please excuse that I did not get back to you sooner; I've been mentally preoccupied for the past week IRL. Yes, I'd be thrilled to climb on board with the LGBT WikiProject. Let me know how I can join and what I can do as a member/helper. Thanks for the invitation! Joie de Vivre 16:33, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the invitation

Of course I'll join! :) And about the Andrew thing, yeah... there's a lot of positive qualities in that character which get overshadowed by the bad things he does. But, sometimes I feel I interpret the character in a whole other way to some people, but I don't know. But yeah, thanks again, I'd like to help in any way I can. ~Zythe^Talk to me! 23:12, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:List of media personalities who have vandalised Wikipedia

It looks like the deletion police are trying to circumvent a previous AFD again. See Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:List of media personalities who have vandalised Wikipedia. As you voted keep, could you cast your vote again? - Ta bu shi da yu 23:20, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just Joined--thanks for the invitation!

I will do what I can for the LGBT Project. I appreciate the invitation. --Athena2006 23:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Same here: I've joined, and thanks for the invitatation! -Emiellaiendiay 02:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Template:LGBT topics

I've made a start on the above- got the feeling your heart wasn't in it yet. Thought I'd have a go at brainstormming some headings and grouping articles. We can format it once we're happy with content. Take a look when you have a sec... WJBscribe ^-WJB talk- 14:27, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey!

Sorry; it's been some time since I last talked to you! So I've decided to join! Sorry I've been putting this off for so long!100110100 05:59, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Have you signed me up?100110100 19:00, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

2 Portal questions

When I archive the article for the Portal, should I cut and paste, or use the move function? I don't want to screw things up by doing it incorrectly. Also, do you have any objections if I use a bio in the general article? If I did (and I was thinking of featuring Alan Turing), we'd have two bios this week. I don't see it as a problem, since Turing is a GA, but I have other choices if you'd rather avoid the problem. Jeffpw 11:05, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oooh - I was going to do Alan! But maybe not for February. Personally, I don't think there's a problem wth having two Bios on the portal. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 19:35, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Socrates

I didn't find anything like what you wrote in your edit summary when you reinstated Socrates to the LGBT list. The best I could find was rulers tell lies to the people for their own good, and manage the education of the young men. If you think it should stay on the list, shouldn't the article be at least tagged and contain references to something LGBT? Maybe I am overlooking something, in which case, could you point me to the relevant text in the article? Jeffpw 16:16, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you

Amazing how much of a high one gets from receiving those. I was thinking about how much progress the Project has made in recent months and much of that is down to your guidance and encouragement. I hope you're not too disheartened by the way the RfA is going, those of us in regular contact with you know you'd be great with the mop. WJBscribe 17:53, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

THanks!

THanks for the welcome! WOOT!100110100 19:25, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What good Wiki friends I have here!

You three (Coelacan, Dev920 and WJBScribe, in alphabetical order) are the ebst friends one could hope for! I feel just like Dorothy in The Wizard of Oz! Jeffpw 19:27, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Suggest you withdraw your RFA

At this point, there are 30 votes opposing your RFA and only 53 supporting. To pass, you would need to get another 67 support votes with no additional oppose votes. This seems pretty unlikely. Why not withdraw and let everybody else move on to the work of building an encyclopedia?

Try to take on board the comments that have been made and try again in a few months.

--Richard 20:12, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your support

--Yannismarou 20:40, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As you set out for Ithaka, hope the voyage is long Knowledge is your destiny, but don't ever hurry the journey May there be many summer mornings when With what pleasure and joy, you come into harbors seen for the first time Don't expect Ithaka to make you rich. Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey And, if I, one of your fellow-travellers, can offer something To make this journey of yours even more fascinating and enjoyable This is my assistance with anything I can help.

Quick question on Desiree del Valle

Your summary said she isn't gay, but the article says she "married her ex-lesbian lover in Las Vegas". Clarify for me? Cuz I'm confused :) -- SatyrBot 22:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good grief. Bots asking questions- I think human Wikipedians may well soon be redundant :-). WJBscribe 22:59, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And the cheek of a bot naming itself after me! Where's my pitchfork and sonic screwdriver?!?! :) :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 01:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to WP:Films!

Welcome!

File:Transparent film reel and film.png

Hey, welcome to the Films WikiProject! We're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of films and film characters. If you haven't already, please add {{User WikiProject Films}} to your user page.

A few features that you might find helpful:

• Most of our important discussions about the project itself and its related articles take place on the project's main discussion page; it is highly recommended that you watchlist it.

• The project has a monthly newsletter. The newsletter for December has been published. January's issue is currently in production; it will be delivered as a link, but several other formats are available.

There is a variety of interesting things to do within the project; you're free to participate however much—or little—you like:

• Want to jump right into editing? The style guidelines show things you should include.
• Want to assist in some current backlogs within the project? Visit the Film Tasks template to see how you can help.
• Want to know how good our articles are? Our assessment department has rated the quality of every film article in Wikipedia. Check it out!
• Want to collaborate on articles? The Cinema Collaboration of the Week picks an article every week to work on together.

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask another fellow member, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! Supernumerary 00:54, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

FAC

Hey there. I think I've addressed all your concerns. At this point, I fully admit I had no idea what I was getting myself into. Sigh. And you're talking about the next FA? :) We could make a deal: you choose the topic, I do the leg work with the article and then you have to undergo FAC, haha. Cheers Raystorm 02:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Portal:LGBT

To be honest, it hasn't a chance in its current state. The major issue is content rotation; a portal with (a) no track record of regular updates and (b) no auto-rotation queues simply won't make it to featured portal status. (Aside from that, there are some minor formatting issues; but those are comparatively minor, and can be quickly fixed. The rotation issue will require rather more effort.) Kirill Lokshin 04:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

~~~ has frowned at you! Frowns promote WikiHate and hopefully this one has made your day worse. Spread the WikiHate by frowning at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.
Happy editing! Go to hell!
Frown at others by adding {{subst|frown}} to their talk page with a hateful message.

Awesome! I haven't seen one of those before! Congratulations :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 13:51, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gracious! Can we turn that frown upside down?!? Jeffpw 16:50, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mind taking a look?

Hey, Joe. We've just finished work on Portal:LGBT, and as you wrote the splendid Portal:European Union, I'd be grateful if you could take a quick look over it and see if there's anything else we need to do for a FPC? Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 18:29, 23 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not a problem, I posted on the portals talk page. Joe I 04:12, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey, sweetie

I just saw your admin nomination was closed, and they did not choose wisely. If anyone deserves to be an admin here, it's you. Well, if you want it again in a few months, I'm sure you will succeed. But just so you know, whenever I need help or advice here, you're always the first person I think of. You know just what to do, and invariably have the solution to the problems I have had here. I am proud to call you my Wikifriend, and hope for a long and happy collaborative relationship here with you. With much love, Jeffpw 16:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Absolutely, those of us who've collaborated with you around here know you'd make a great admin. I strongly encourage you to go for it again in a couple of months :-).

In the meantime, have some chocolate to go with Jeff's flowers. WJBscribe 16:28, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wow! Mushiness! That's tons and tons better than the frown. IMNSHO. I have no pictures to offer, but I do offer my support! :) :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 19:17, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just want you to know that I'd be more than happy to nominate you again, if and when you want to be put under the microscope again. --Samuel Wantman 20:11, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to say I believe you would have made a great admin. I'm sorry it didn't work out this time. Don't give up, you've got a lot of people who believe in you willing to support you, okay? :-) Lots of wiki cheers, Raystorm 20:52, 26 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to see...

Hey, sorry to see the RfA close unsuccessfully. I just wanted to remined you that you're a great editor, you ran a great RfA, and that next time myself, and I'm sure many others, will vote in strong support. Keep strong, and keep editing. Thε Halo ^Θ 00:53, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I left him a cheerful little message on his talk page, honey! Jeffpw 18:54, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Image :)

Sure, I will be very happy to. I'll report back in the afternoon with the details. By the way, sorry your nomination failed. Cheers! --Ouro 09:38, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

About that image, Dev: If you're planning on using it as a project award or anything similar, you could meet with objections, as it is a copyrighted image. This came up once before, when Wikiproject Jewish studies used it as the basis for their own barnstar. here's the relevent discussion. I don't know if that's your plan, but I just wanted to save you some time. Jeffpw 10:00, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Have the same thing on my mind, the image is copyrighted. Anyway, it's also done, take a look. Tell me what you'd like done differently and I'll do it. Cheers. --Ouro 11:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, isn't that pretty! I would love to get that as a barnstar, if the copyright situation could be resolved. One idea: It was suggested that a piece of the image could be used,and not the entire image. Maybe that's a way to go? Jeffpw 11:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

It would look great in userboxes. Dev, rather than debate the copyright issues in the abstract, why don't you contact Danny and see what the Foundation view is on using the logo in this way. If you explain to him how you plan on using it, he can easily say if that's acceptable. WJBscribe 12:17, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jeffpw, there already is an LGBT barnstar. What did you mean, when you said above 'a piece of the image'? Tell me what you'd be looking for and I'll see what I can do in terms of the graphics. --Ouro 12:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Heh, you already know that, since you got it :) --Ouro 12:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at the discussion I linked to in my first comment here, you'll see someone suggested that one puzzle piece from the total Wiki logo wouldn't violate copyright issues, while the total image might be an issue. And when I said Barnstar in my last comment, I was using the term generically to refer to any award given out on Wikipedia. Jeffpw 13:37, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see now. I confess, I have not read the entire discussion, I just skimmed through. I'll think about how to design it, good idea. --Ouro 13:40, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Here's an example of a piece of the jigsaw free from copyright: Image:B Puzzle.png. WJBscribe 14:03, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dev already showed me. I have a couple of things to do in the meatspace, but will get back to this today. --Ouro 14:17, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, how about this? Have removed the 'B' because I found little use for it... and now with a ribbon or what? Do you have a vision? --Ouro 15:44, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I wonder how it would look with a red ribbon, for AIDS awareness, or a pink one, for breast cancer. Not knowing how it is to be used, makes it hard to say what else should go with it. I have to admit, though, the total Wikipedia image looks the best. Jeffpw 16:27, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, I go on a course and the world beats a path to my talkpage. :) I didn't notice that that particular image was copyrighted, or I would have asked first. What I want to do with it is create an advertising poster that can go up in LGBT reference libraries, resource centers and cybercafes, so we can get more people into editing Wikipedia, and hopefully, joining us. The idea is to introduce them to editing Wikipedia, and once they're slightly experienced, they will be able to find us.

My grand plan, which I have been steadily working towards, is to continue to expand and improve LGBT articles on Wikipedia, then begin to push out into other projects, improving LGBT quotes, developing textbooks on Wikibooks on LGBT history and stuff, building up Wikinews' coverage of LGBT events and so on. While we're accomplishing that we can help other language Wikipedias to improve their LGBT coverage. I want to break new ground in how Wikimedians collaborate to create content. I'm dreaming big, because you should always aim for the moon - even if you miss you'll be among the stars. Even if my plans don't come fruition, we'll have written articles that never made it into Britannica, at least not without being highly censored. We've been written out of the history of the world for millennia. Wikipedia is seeking to change that, and I, for one, intend to be there.

Wow, Dev! That's a great plan. I think if you discuss this with the Foundation, they would probably give you permission or you can just be bold. Please keep us informed, and let me know how I can be of assistance. By the way, are you ever on IRC? Jeffpw 19:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The poster can now be found here: http://wplgbt.tripod.com/Wikipedianeedsyou.doc You may have noticed that I tend to go in for the minimalist look, so if there are any variations you might like, I would be happy to create another one. Now I just need to persuade people to put it up... Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 00:53, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Good morning everyone. Dev, nice poster. I was acutally wondering this morning in bed, what you wanted the Wikiglobe for, or the puzzle part (by the way - do you need another award in your area?). The poster is interesting and draws attention, although at first glance it could give the message that the whole Wikipedia is dedicated to LGBT (because the whole globe is coloured). How about putting also a direct link to WikiProject LGBT studies on the poster?

On a technical side: If you have the tools to do it, it is far more practical to have something You'd want to print in PDF, PSD or CDR or high-res JPG, than DOC. But that's just me :) And you have a nice day, too! --Ouro 09:16, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Bot question...

When you use AWB, does it add pages to your watchlist? Like if the bot (under its account) adds something to a page, the page gets added to 'your' watchlist? -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 23:24, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your edits at Meatspace

You have removed the prod, so it is contested. I do not want to send it to AFD if I am in error. What was your reason, just in case I am missing something. Any help is appreciated. Regards, Navou ^banter 23:45, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

• I may be in error, I have reviewed the article and sent it to AFD here. Please comment at the AFD. Regards Navou ^banter 00:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

NPA...

With regards to your comments on [3]: Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy. Comment on content, not on contributors; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that continued personal attacks may lead to blocks for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you.

Please do not replace Wikipedia pages with blank content, as you did to User talk:Dev920. Blank pages are harmful to Wikipedia because they have a tendency to confuse readers. If it is a duplicate article, please redirect it to an appropriate existing page. If the page has been vandalised, please revert it to the last legitimate version. If you feel that the content of a page is inappropriate, please edit the page and replace it with appropriate content. If you believe there is no hope for the page, please see the deletion policy for how to proceed.

While I realise that Hildanknight's comments may be construed as uncivil, there's no excuse for accusing him of 'spewing bile'. Please try to keep your temper in check. Thanks. ~Crazytales (IP locations!) 01:59, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What!?!?!? Crazytales, this isn't an article. This is the talk page of a user. There are TONS of examples of users either blanking their own talk pages or even selectively removing comments. None of which are considered "harmful to Wikipedia". Please review the situation before placing a standard form about vandalism. -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 02:08, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have undone the restoration of comments and struck through the warning template that is completely inapplicable in this situation. Users may remove uncivil comments from their talk pages 'til the cows come home. —bbatsell ¿? 02:30, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Jan Lechoń

Hello, I was bored and translated the polish article on Jan Lechoń. If you want to have a go at copyediting it, feel free to do so. Notifying you as you wrote you're interested in biographies. I already left a very similar note on Jeffpw's talk page. Cheers. --Ouro 11:38, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, we do get edit wars on the Polish Wikipedia, don't you get any false impression that we're more civil or lazy not to have them ;) I'd say it's all down to the numbers, because the number of participants on the Polish Wikipedia is drastically lower than on the English. But I could be very wrong. We should have citations, though. Anyway, Jeffpw ran by me the idea to expand the article further (and he was kind enough to copyedit my English), and I will try to do it, just have to read up on Lechoń and Skamander somewhat.

I smiled when I read your We're quite easy to find when you know where to look. I just found that a shortcut to your project exists at WP:LGBT. Maybe it will be of use to you? Cheers. --Ouro 13:09, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Your question

Check out the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies#Dispute over Polish article. (again :) ). --Ouro 16:57, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

And a further comment from me regarding the link to Pinknews. Actually, it sounds fairly convincing to me, too, as the mentioned newspaper (the correct name is Rzeczpospolita, not Rzeczpolita) is very reputable and I'd say one of the maybe top three daily papers in Poland right now. The archive, however, is not free to access. From my findings, conducted just now (what Jeffpw said), I can see there is a fair amount of consensus that he definitely might be homosexual, although I will not give you a decisive yes or no answer now. If/when I find something more, I'll be sure to bring the news to your attention. --Ouro 17:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Foreign-language Wikipedias

We used not to require references here, so I guess it's just that they've not bothered doing so over there yet. The French Wikipedia's equivalent of WP:REF has a big debate about whether they should make the recommendation compulsory or not (fr:Discussion Wikipédia:Citez vos sources), so it may well become compulsory at some point soon… —The preceding unsigned comment was added by OwenBlacker (talk • contribs) 17:04, 28 January 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Thank you!!!!

		The Graphic Designer's Barnstar
		Thank you for creating that template for the Same-sex marriage in Spain article! Thank you, thank you, thank you! Raystorm 22:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		Thanks for coming to the rescue in the Same-sex marriage in Spain article! Raystorm 22:21, 28 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Invitation

Thanks for your kind invitiation. I've replied on my talk page. ntennis 07:58, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Invitation to WP:LGBT

Hello, I saw your edits to Biology and sexual orientation and the talkpage of WP:LGBT, and I'd like to invite you to join WikiProject LGBT studies. We'd be delighted to have you! Dev920 (Have a nice day!) 08:20, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Greetings! Thanks for the invitation. I have thought about participating in the past, but I'm swamped as it is with WP:CPS. I'll definitely reconsider if and when things die down there (and maybe when I'm finished with my thesis!). I appreciate the notice, though. Consider the project bookmarked :-) Best, --Rkitko 10:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Medal

		The Featured Article Medal
		Your tireless contributions on Jake Gyllenhaal, Austin Nichols and Latter Days qualify you for a well-earned Featured Article Medal and the respect and envy that goes with it... Enjoy -sorry it's a little late in arriving. WJBscribe 14:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I did remember about Peter Sarsgaard but thought I'd keep him for the next medal (once you get another two FAs under your belt...). WJBscribe 15:44, 29 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Apology

I want to apologize for my incivility. While i disagree with you about Esperanza, I respect your opinion. Geo. 01:34, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject LGBT

Thanks for the invitation, but, as it says at the top of my talk page, I am not joining Wikiprojects at this time. Thanks anyway. -Branddobbe 05:29, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

January 2007 WP:Films Newsletter

File:Transparent film reel and film.png The Films WikiProject Newsletter Volume II, no. 1 - January 2007
Project News We have another new department, Categorization, with the ambitious goal of defining a clear categorization system for the thousands of film articles and other WP:FILMS pages. This involves improving the general order of Category:Films and creating guidelines for which Categories are to be added in film articles. The department is having a difficult start, but look ahead to when we will have all of our articles not only assessed but properly categorized as well. While our Peer Review Department has helped eight articles achieve good article status and two achieve featured article status, it would benefit from more participation. The project is currently in the process of attempting to add film infoboxes to all of our articles. There are approximately 800 articles tagged with {{needs film infobox}}. Adding an infobox takes only a few minutes, so if you have the time, please consider helping to tackle these infobox requests. You can also consider adopting a section to tackle here. The project List of films without article has extended its scope in three lists: One by decade, compiling red-linked films found in various filmographies and articles, one by country, compiling films from other countries and one by notability, focusing mostly on awarded films. Thanks to the efforts of our members, we have over 18,500 articles tagged! The Assessment Department has more information on the statistics of our project. You may have noticed a new template on the talk pages of all of our stub-class articles. The template was added to provide instructions to editors on what additional information an article needs to be upgraded from a stub to a start class. If you see that the article meets the listed requirements, change the class to start, and the template will automatically be removed. Hopefully this template will help to improve the quality of articles within our project. There is also a new template that may be added to talk pages for articles that need a film-related image. This new template is {{filmimage}}, which should be used instead of {{reqscreenshot}} or {{reqphoto}}. Talk pages that have this template are accessible from Category:Wikipedia requested film images. Several countries' film lists are also being developed. Ernst Stavro Blofeld, after a hard start, has been working on the list of Austrian films and the list of Argentine films. He has encouraged several other members to work on other countries, and so Shawn in Montreal has started helping in the list of Canadian films. Our congratulations to all concerned editors' efforts. Keep up the good work! The Collaboration Department has collaborated on two articles this month, Pulp Fiction (improvements) and A Trip to the Moon (improvements). The current article, Film, was chosen on January 20 and will continue until February 3. Spotlight Update: Multiple films and film-related articles have reached GA and FA status in December and January. January so far has been our most successful month in improving articles to GA. Keep up the good work! Latter Days (12/31) Midnight movie (1/1) Fann Wong (1/5) Psycho (1/6) Star Wars 5 (1/7) Borat! (1/8) Coonskin (1/8) Jaws 2 (1/8) An Inconvenient Truth (1/9) B movie (1/9) Black Book (1/10) Faten Hamama (1/11) Pound Puppies (1/13) Tears of the Black Tiger (1/14) The Last Waltz (1/17) Lage Raho Munna Bhai (1/17) Golden Film (1/18) The Lord of the Rings (1978) (1/20) The Cat and the Canary (1/20) Ben Stiller (1/21) Tomorrow Never Dies (1/21) Wizards (1/22) Facing the Giants (1/30) There were also two GA films that were recently delisted which could use some assistance to return to GA status. The Blair Witch Project - Delisted on 1/24 An Inconvenient Truth - Delisted on 1/26 Member News It's hard to tell who is new and who isn't with all the old members signing the list this month, but some of the new names were: Ganfon, Peter, Mallanox, SUIT, Troubleshooter, happylobster, Modelwatcher, Aubin, Al Fecund, Trebor, mctan, Crazed Ewok, Oscarthecat, Crzycheetah Guitarhero777777, Maria, Shawn in Montreal, Jbmas99, Salamurai, Stabby Joe, Dmanning, zadignose, MDonfield, ychennay, Ffocuser, DurinsBane87, Darrenhusted, Dev920, Jmartinsson, Sand Squid, Richard, Erik, Anas Salloum, Smcafirst, and Jonathan D. Parshall Please add your name to the member list if you have not already. Supernumerary, Nehrams2020, and Wisekwai were awarded the film barnstar, congratulations to them!	Current proposals and discussions The issue of which films are notable enough to be included in Wikipedia and what guidelines should apply has been recently discussed in Village pump, trying to clear out the issue. Additionally Wikipedia:Notability (films) has been changed from inactive to proposal (in development). Discussion or other constructive participation is most welcome. We are currently thinking about creating a "Film Board" and a "Tech Board" for all help related to the management and operation of our project, both in the content areas and the technical ones. Also a "Translation Board" has been proposed to help with film articles from other Wikipedias. Coming to theatres Opened last weekend (1/26): Blood and Chocolate (PG-13) Catch and Release (PG-13) Epic Movie (PG-13) Smokin' Aces (R) Nomad (LR) Seraphim Falls (LR) Opening this weekend (2/2): Because I Said So The Messengers Rogue Opening next weekend (2/9) Goal! 2: Living the Dream... Norbit Hannibal Rising Other February Releases Music and Lyrics (2/14) Daddy's Little Girls (2/14) Just Follow Law (2/15) Breach (2/16) Bridge to Terabithia (2/16) Ghost Rider (2/16) Amazing Grace (2/23) The Astronaut Farmer (2/23) Black Snake Moan (2/23) The Number 23 (2/23) From the Editors If you've just joined or if you haven't already, add your name to the Participants section of Wikipedia:WikiProject Films. You'll get a mention in the next issue of the Newsletter and get it delivered as desired. Also, please include your own promotions and awards in future issues. Don't be shy! Lastly, this is your newsletter and you can be involved in the creation of the next issue (Issue 2 – February 2007). Any and all contributions are welcome. Simply let yourself be known to any of the undersigned, or just start editing! Contributors to this Issue Supernumerary (Editor) Cbrown1023 (Editor) Nehrams2020 (Editor, Distributor) Hoverfish (Editor)
Complete Announcements/To Do List Make visible or invisible by clicking Show or Hide, respectively. Contribute to the WikiProject Films Add your user name to the category of Wikipedians interested in film and add {{User WikiProject Films}} to your talk page. Cinema Collaboration of the Week: Film Articles needing attention: The Blair Witch Project (recently delisted GA), An Inconvenient Truth (recently deslisted GA), Cinéma vérité Discuss: Categorization, Notability GAC: Alien, Rocky Balboa (film), Jaws 3-D Review: The Pit and the Pendulum (1961 film) • Cool World • Jurassic Park Critique: Copyedit: Much Ado About Nothing, Longshot, Girl 6 Expand: Giuseppe Bennati, Hollywood cycles, Red curtain, Il Decameron, Warner Independent Pictures, The Sadist (film) Film images: A Matter of Time (1976 film), Caterina in the Big City, Flight Lieutenant (film), The Flying Irishman, I Kiss Your Hand, Madame, Testament (film), Pumping Iron II: The Women, Red Sky at Morning (1971 film) Film infobox: Autumn Leaves (film), Mad Monster Party, Love Finds Andy Hardy, The Giant Spider Invasion, Death Takes a Holiday, Black & White (1998 film), All the Queen's Men List to prose: Stewie Griffin: The Untold Story, The Rocky Horror Picture Show Too much trivia: American Beauty Create: Va savoir, Monster Man, I Eat Your Skin, Puzzlehead, Little Hiawatha edit
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Nehrams2020 07:50, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Your FAC comments

I just read your comments on the FAC SS marriage in Spain. Thank you for saying what I have thought for a long while now. I didn't have that page watchlisted, or else I would have come in supporting you. I will say, though, that while many reviewers there are rude and seem to raise the bar higher each time you meet an objection, at least Sandy works to help fix problems she sees in an article. S/he is one of the few who do that. Jeffpw 09:18, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hey there. Sorry about the nastiness at the FAC page, and thanks for your support. I didn't expect Sandy to start making assumptions about the quality of the reviews or votes of LGBT project members when I asked her to drop a few (!!) lines. Forget Explorer, and focus on the bright side (it certainly cheered me up, the most evil and bad-faithed and puppy murderer of nominators in Wikipedia according to him): SSM in Spain is now a FA! :-) Cheers Raystorm 10:55, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Congratulations, Raystorm! You sweated blood with that nomination, and did a great job. Do you now share my opinion of the FAC process? :-) Jeffpw 11:06, 31 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

LGBT WikiProject Newsletter

The LGBT studies WikiProject Newsletter! Issue III - February 1, 2007

Announcement: If someone requests help or feedback on an article, please try your hardest to help them out if you are able. Thank you. Project News The LGBT Portal has once again been revamped and a work rota started. Efforts towards Featured Portal status are slowly coming together. The assessment system has been a great success, we have tagged over 4000 articles! Please tag any LGBT related articles you come across by adding {{LGBTProject | class=}} to the talkpage. Please see the Assessment Department for how to assess an article according to the grading system. The Translation department has changed its focus, to LGBT articles about non-English topics and people on which there may be more information on the relevant foreign Wikipedia. Please add your name if you are fluent in any language other than English. Jumpaclass is picking up slowly, with nine people having entered. With over 2000 stubs we need to improve our article quality. Please sign up and get it going! Challenge another user to see how far you can jump a stub! There is an ongoing discussion about the current LGBT categorisation system here, here, and a little bit here. A special page has now been set up here to deal with this. A Watchlist has been set up to monitor controversial and/or highly vandalised articles. It can also be used for article disputes, just add a note explaining the nature of the dispute. With the influx of so many active members, there is now enough support for a LGBT studies peer review, which may be found here. It's in the beta phase at the moment, so bear with us if we make any mistakes. Feel free to peer review any articles you have been working on. It was agreed this month to start reducing the uses of the Notice board, as many members felt that it was not effective. An open tasks template has been created, bringing together important announcements, FAC/FARs, Peer reviews, XfDs, the COTM, and requested articles. You may desire to watchlist it. A Deletion sorting subpage is also now working to bring together XfDs - this should be bot-driven, but we have not currently tagged enough articles to make this fully automated, so please update the list with any LGBT-related XfDs you come across. Article news Two articles were recently shepherded through the Featured Article process by two of our members - Same-sex marriage in Spain and The Well of Loneliness. Congratulations go to (respectively) Raystorm and Celithemis! Member News We more than doubled our membership this month! 53 new users have joined the Wikiproject: Aleta, Koweja, Profriend, Andrewn, Carolynparrishfan, Cpnlsn88, Brian1979, Tullerk, Garydw, Ganymead, Celithemis, Burnley, Lquilter, Parammon, Forsakendaemon, Allyn, bcatt, Dfeuer, Raystorm, Fabienne1, Esprix, Antanta, Janusvulcan, Elizabeth Lund, Ashleyvh, E. Sn0 =31337=, MiraLuka, White hotel, Zythe, Athena2006, CosmicWaffles, Emiellaiendiay, Musimax, AlexReynolds, Swollib, Nield, Kriza, 100110100, Andral, thickslab, Ronline, Iamvered, FisherQueen, William percy, Viannah, Ssbohio, Ali-oops, Anyaanomaly, Revolución, Ender2155, LuciferMorgan, Kathryn NicDhàna, and Artgoyle. Please make them feel welcome!

To stop receiving this newsletter, or to receive it in a different format, please drop me a line. If you have any news or any announcements to be broadcast, do let Dev920 know.

FAC

Thanks! I'm not quite sure yet what my next FAC will be; I'm working on the research to bring Djuna Barnes to FA level, but I might put up Romaine Brooks in the meantime since it needs much less work. —Celithemis 00:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Silly community building idea...

"Prettiest Signature"? Just a thought :) -- SatyrTN (talk | contribs) 01:14, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Coping with project size, a proposal

Given the rate at which the LGBT project is expanding, I think its time we followed the example of the Military History Wikiproject and had a coordinator. I don't think we need a whole team at this point, just one person to act as the focus point for process and to take questions. Those of us who've been around know we can run things through you for guidance etc. but it would be helpful if this is expressly clear to newer members.

A draft proposal can be found at User:WJBscribe/Coordinator. The first question is: are you willing to act as coordinator? If yes, then I propose we do the following: I will note on the LGBT project talkpage that we need a coordinator and suggest that you are the obvious person for this role (as in all but name you are already). I will ask that anyone who objects to having a coordinator or wishes to stand for the job should say so within a week. If no one objects or wants the job, we can then declare you the unanimous choice :-). Otherwise an election can be held. What do you think? WJBscribe 17:05, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Very pretty and also extremely scary! OK we'll have an election anyway. As to assistants, lets get people on board for the general idea of a coordinator first. Then we can have a discussion about whether other people are needed. In the short term if you were ill or on a Wikibreak you could put a note on your talkpage saying please direct any question re:LGBT Wikiproject to User:X. WJBscribe 17:35, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, that would be kind of like "Miss Runner Up" in the Miss America contest contest! "If Miss America becomes ill, or is otherwise unable to fulfill Her duties, Miss Runner Up stands ready to assume the Crown and sash, and complete the responsibilities being Miss America entails". It's an important job, Miss Runner Up. You must choose wisely, Dev. And congratulations on being Wikipedia's LGBT Miss America! Jeffpw 21:42, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

LOL!!! That's hilarious! I admit I'm not totally sober at this moment, but my sides are hurting with the amount of laughter that comment has provided :-) !!! WJBscribe 01:59, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Wow, the Advocate article sounds great if it comes off. Good opportunity for us to stress that we neutrally improve the quality of LGBT articles too... Do you need to clear that sort of thing with the Foundation? WJBscribe 18:13, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You'll need a crown, of course. :-) Jeffpw 22:24, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

In case you don't check the TOP of your talkpage, there's what looks like quite an important message up there for you. WJBscribe 02:03, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Reply to your question

That's not really possible, unfortunately. There's only so much formatting that you can do, because whatever Wikicode you enter has to be converted to HTML and CSS, so you are limited by those formats. The nearest that you can get is entering a non-breaking space on each empty line. Click the edit link for this section to see one here:   Adrian M. H. 20:39, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've put up an example in your sandbox, of top-aligned names or titles and center-aligned content. It involves doubling the number of cells and then forcing them to not display inner borders so that two cells look like one. There might be better ways to do this, but I don't know anything else. — coelacan talk — 22:04, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Pleased to help. =) — coelacan talk — 22:15, 1 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There's now an empty 6x8 quilt in your sandbox, annotated with (hopefully helpful) html comment instructions. I hope that's large enough to make people say "oh hey I'd better help fill this up" but no so large that it will sit empty. It's easy to cut it down to 36 or 30 to start with if you prefer, and it will be easy to add more lines in the future. I think it's ready to move out to a live subspace of the project now, and those who've already contributed can copy and paste there. — coelacan talk — 18:43, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I see you're out at the moment, so I'll just put it up at Wikipedia:WikiProject LGBT studies/Quilt and announce it on the project page. — coelacan talk — 19:19, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind if the names are delinked; the others might have been following my example. But I don't know if you'll be able to keep others from doing the same anyway, or from using their special colored signatures. It's your call, depending on how much work you want for yourself. ;-) I want my name either as coelacan or Coelacan, because bold and small-caps don't mix well. Another thing you might go for is to let the names be linked, but wrap the text in the links with <span style="color:black;"></span> so you get black links (click, see?). — coelacan talk — 20:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Peter Sarsgaard

Please be more careful when reverting edits. The edit you reverted was accurate; your revert, and the reason you reverted it, was not. Note how the IMDB article says his first role was in Law & Order in 1995. Also, note how CSI didn't start until the year 2000.

I apologize if I sound irked, but I caught a mistake and you put the mistake back in blindly. Not very smart or cordial. - Stick Fig 00:33, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Re: Jarosław Kaczyński

Hi. Thanks for letting me know about the discussion on the talk page of the Poland's prime minister. I was away for holiday, and I have just read your message.

As a gay person from Poland I have obviously observed the debate about his alleged homosexuality in the Polish media. I have to say that there are no straight evidence of his homosexual orientation or being engaged in any homosexual relationships. He never said he was homosexual, but I have also never heard of him denying that.

Any evidence of his sexuality coming from the communist secret police is highly questionable, as it wasn't uncommon for them to invent things that might work against opposition leaders, one of whom Jarosław was. As an "old bachelor" he was "under suspition" of homosexuality, so the secret police could just have used this suspition and do something to enlarge it.

But the fact is, that there are rumours about his sexuality. And as there is no evidence, I would suggest to include a passage about RUMOURS about his sexual orientation in this article. For two reasons: 1) rumours are very widely spread, and were confirmed by Lech Wałęsa, a very well respected person; and 2) his party's anti-gay rhetorics.

These rumours have manifested in many ways in the Polish society: for example as you have pointed out, Lech Wałęsa the Solidarity leader has once issued an invitation to his bitrhday for "Lech Kaczyński and his wife and Jarosław Kaczyński and his husband". The story of this event was the theme of jokes for quite some time.

As Jarosław Kaczyński is the leader of a party that has presents a very tough anti-gay and anti-gay-civil-rights rhetorics, rumours about his homosexuality are very often used during street demonstrations, where people carry signs like "Prezydencie, gej twoim bratem" (double meaning: one 'bilical' saying that "Mr. President! gays are your brothers", and second "Mr. President your brother is gay").

(Nota bene Lech, the current president of Poland, used to be the President of The City of Warsaw, and during his office he has twice banned Gay Pride from marching the streets. Law regulations, on which he based his refusal, were later overthrown by the Constitional Tribunal)

I have seen the abovementioned sign with my own eyes, during the June 2006 Warsaw Pride, and I will look up gay sites for a picture. I am sure Polish gay sites will agree for such a photo to be used on Wikipedia in this context. I think these rumours might be very interesting for wikipedia readers, and I see no reason for not putting them in.

Every reader deserves to be informed about these rumours exist and make his own mind.

As for the title of an LGBT person, I would say this is not a suitable person. He would perfectly fit to a category of an anti-gay politician.

To conclude: I'm hoping we could cooperate in adding information about the rumours to this article;)

I'll look for more sources.

Have a nice day

→ Boyau 13:00, 3 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Biography of Living Persons Administrators indeed

Well put! --Steve _(Slf67) ^talk 03:12, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Call me a cat

my curiosity has been satisfied. Jeffpw 20:35, 4 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

LGBT studies

*laugh* Actually I didn't even realize that the LGBT studies project was a separate entity from the plain old LGBT noticeboard. Technically I already knew it existed; I just thought I was already a member of it :-) Bearcat 00:31, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Dev

I've just jumped in at the marriage article - and wanted to say hello!

... what do you think of the re-write on talk at the bottom? - I won't bang on here about the article, but thought i'd just say hi...

Petesmiles 00:48, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Possible wording for LGBT poster

Hi, Dev920,

I wanted to offer my grammatical suggestions for your new poster. Have a look and let me know what you think. Changes are in bold.

Wikipedia Needs You

Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia which can be edited by anyone. It is the twelfth most-visited website in the world. A group of editors have formed a “WikiProject”, to improve LGBT-related articles on Wikipedia.

We want people who will help us!

For years, history books and encyclopedias have been sanitized, erasing the mention of LGBT issues and people. Wikipedia and WikiProject LGBT studies seek to remedy that fact.

Join us, and contribute to the sum of all human knowledge.

http://en.wikipedia.org.

You may have noticed that we haven’t told you how to join the WikiProject. This is because it is good to become familiar with editing Wikipedia, first. WikiProject LGBT studies is very easy to find, once you’re slightly experienced. Poster designed by Dev920. Rainbow-colored globe created by Ouro.

Let me know what you think. Joie de Vivre 01:36, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Marriage

I explained my reasoning. You disagree and are willing to revert me. I think you are now personally attached to your wording because my change only makes it inclusive of same-sex marriage and removes the primacy of one man and one woman. I am sure I must have insulted you. You’ll get over it. Please do not think I disrespect you. I’ll leave your version alone, but by Tuesday night it will have morphed into a traditional marriage statement. I really doubt that the traditional marriage people would ever have noticed the difference between “and” and “or”. Take care.--Riferimento 02:24, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am not gay, nor politically correct. So I have no reason to be apologetic to traditional marriage fools. A word means what people think it means. Majority is irrelevant, wants and opinions are not important. Marriage no longer means one man one woman the article should not state it does or infers that is what it means to most people. A definition should not try to read the minds of the public. If you want to describe marriage your argument has weight, but not if what you are trying to do is define marriage. I have multiple times suggested the descriptive approach where we describe all major varieties—this is not what the traditional marriage people want because it would infer same-sex marriage is a equivalent type of marriage. The undue weight argument is not relevant to a definition when you exclude something from a definition it is no longer an adequate definition. What they want and what you seem to be agreeing to is a limited definition that does not mention alternative types but leaves room for their existence. Rbj comes back Tuesday and he’ll be happy to find that you have agreed to define marriage in a way that agrees with his reality.--Riferimento 02:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You’re advocating either censorship or compromise. Censorship has no redeeming characteristics, and in a compromise unlike a negotiation everyone loses something. In this case we lose the truth because the whole definition is not there. But you feel everyone but me is happy, the trouble is if it isn’t true nobody will care to read it.--Riferimento 03:12, 5 February 2007 (UTC)[reply]