User talk:CWenger/Archives/2023/November


Quote in Battle Cry of Freedom (book) ?

Dear CWenger,

Thanks for your interest in this history book. I just saw you had removed a quote with this edit. Your motivation was : a great moment and quote to be sure but what is the significance here? pretty sure it had been described previously by other sources. I feel the significance of the quote is as follows:

  1. Sample of style. When we describe a book or an author, we should give a quote. Like showing a painting on the article Pablo Picasso. Show, don't tell. It is informative for the reader to have an actual real sample from the book.
  2. Sample of argument and method. The upshot of the historical argument and objective method of the book is made clear by a characteristic quote. At a key moment the sworn enemies realise the relative importance of three - not two! - different groups of Americans, who have to live together: white Northerners and Southerners, and also the "Real Americans", the Indians. A change of perspective, although the black people are forgotten in this scene (!). However, the generous Indian concludes: We Are All Americans.
  3. Enhanced quality of information. In contrast to say, the Encyclopedia Brittannica on paper - an inspiration to Jimmy Wales when he envisaged Wikipedia at the start - we have enough space to spare to offer the reader the best brief information on a topic. Obviously, a real sample of a work - again, like a photo of a painting to discuss an artist - is a boon.

You and i agreed that this was a "great moment" as you wrote. Furthermore you mentioned "other sources": i would welcome you finding another source of the same scene. Anyway, for this widely used book the scene is crucial and it can be very well shown here as a sample of style and method.

  • What do you think now, is the quote worthwhile?

Thank you for considering this question, Hansmuller (talk) 17:30, 4 November 2023 (UTC)

I won't revert if you put the quote back in, but I still don't think it's particularly relevant. If the story was discovered or popularized by McPherson then I'd agree, but I don't see any evidence that that's the case. According to Ely Parker's wiki page, it was in a 1919 book about him, and probably earlier. Other parts were taken from Grant's memoirs, which are quite well known in their own right. I wouldn't say a quote is necessary at all; we aren't trying to advertise the book, just inform. –CWenger (^ • @) 18:16, 4 November 2023 (UTC)
Dear CWenger, thanks for your reply and extra sources.
The fact that others recall this incident as well, means that we have more sources which strengthens the case for mentioning it here.
But the real motivation for the quote was simply to show style and argument of this history book. A quote on an article is to a book what a painting on an article is to an artist. Or a music sound file on the Wikipedia article on Wolfgang Gottlieb Mozart - his real name it seems :-)).
So i feel that preferably every article on a book should offer the reader a quote as a sample.
  • On Wikipedia we have the unique opportunity to provide good educational and instructional material, really showing not only telling.
Thank you for this discussion, Hansmuller (talk) 09:55, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

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