User talk:Becritical/Archive 2Be wary of the effects it can have on youHello friend--thanks for inviting me to participate in the upcoming discussion. I will be glad to help out with my ability to unite my fellow Wikipedians and bring them to consensus with you. (That is if I have any residual, unspent influence!) But first, I have to say you've changed a lot since late October/early November. Remember how great everybody got along following the coalition which was formed in order to gently remove Dualus (& his Lawrence Lessig peddling/spamming efforts) from our collective "democracy" we enabled? Remember that period of peace where everybody was so glad we took back control of the article, and we all worked together? Read this exchange I had with Gregbeard and find those same insights within yourself, because I can tell you care very much about the criticism section, but you've lost a piece of yourself in the process. When that happens, you become a stranger again, and old victories just become passing memories reflective of a time when big things like this were treated on a unified front by the likes of me, you, gandy, amad, centrify, andy, jackson, and even somedifferentstuff. If that day were to somehow come back once again, everybody was so much better then. I've chosen to hang my hat on the pinnacle of OWS's heyday--leaving myself in much the same fashion as Wikipedia had made me. That's why after all these days & weeks, I still have a bright face and feel like Dualus was just banned only yesterday. :-) Maybe that's why I want the talk page to go back to the way it used to be--where we all worked together rather than being for or against any particular issue--but just maybe that's how it should be, if I were ever to fully return... Take care of yourself, old friend! 가는말이 고와야 오는말이 곱다. 완젬스 (talk) 05:44, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
AbortionDear Be, Thank you for your comments on the abortion talk page. You are spot on. For 5 years the lead sentence correctly failed to mention viability and correctly noted the precise type of pregnancy termination that abortion ALWAYS is: one associated with a dead embryo or fetus. A few months back some folks got together and began POV pushing to force a politically correct lead. They rammed this through without consensus and were very harsh to those who disagreed. And now they proceed as if their own version is sacrosanct and not to be touched. This is really a rather simple matter: they insist on using a medical definition - but wikipedia rules actually prefer a broad definition as the primary definition, with specialty definitions to be discussed within the article. Kudos to you, and good luck.69.138.131.238 (talk) 19:57, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
Banned, yes, for posting undeniable objective RS repeatedly with no acknowledgment by the POV pushers other than to ban me. Pretty amazing. Please see the collection of RS definitions in this archive (the IP comments are excellent): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Abortion/Archive_45#Numbered_Collection_of_Definitions 74.5.191.140 (talk) 11:31, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
Suggestion:
69.138.131.238 (talk) 20:44, 30 December 2011 (UTC) OWS leading paragraphIt really would have been better to work together on reworking the lead paragraph rather than reverting wholesale. The original is problematic. Working on rewriting it also promotes cooperative editing and a collegial atmosphere. Reverting promotes a right side vs. wrong side atmosphere - and that always makes for hard feelings. You seem like one of the few editors involved in hot-button issue articles who has a good head - why opt for working against rather than with? (talk→ LesHB ←track) 02:05, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
HiHi Becritical, I was wanting to ask for feedback on the Rtnews banner at the top of the OWS talkpage. I made it, and wanted to know if it makes any difference ? Besides that, I think you mentioned that developing articles need, or can have a criticism section, I have nothing to do with OWS and I'm asking in relation to a different article, Mother Teresa, anyhow was wanting to know if you know of any guide thats useful about a criticism section being cool. (I can keep track of conversations better on my talkpage) Penyulap talk 15:56, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
in re OWS, NPOV and consensusHello, Becritical. You have new messages at El duderino's talk page.
You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template. Please stopPlease stop reordering my comment on the OWS talk page. Please read WP:TPG regarding moving and changing the talk page entries of other editors. If you would like ME to reorder my comments, ask and give your reasons for wanting me to do it. If you think I'm using OD improperly and/or violating policy, please provide a link to the policy that backs up your claim. (talk→ LesHB ←track) 03:38, 2 January 2012 (UTC) To say I'm disappointed that you won't own up to violating policy and continuing to do so after being asked to stop would be an understatement. You wanted to me compromise for your sake and comfort level (even though what I was doing isn't against policy), and I did so. Now, when I ask you to at least admit you were in the wrong as an offer of compromise on your part, you won't comply? Nice. I guess I should have seen the writing on the wall when you didn't even bother to try and work things out with me at my talk page - rather, you chose to go elsewhere to complain about something that isn't even a policy violation. Don't think I won't remember your refusal to work things out amicably when you need/ask for something again. Not to say I won't work with you cooperatively in the future, but next time, I'll be less likely to trust you to work cooperatively or do the right thing just because it's right. (talk→ LesHB ←track) 19:31, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
Hey thanks cool :D... well, I guess not actually awarded yet. Be——Critical 20:47, 7 January 2012 (UTC) closely relatedHi. In your recent edit at WP:V,[8] did you intend to mean that both NOR and NPOV are closely related to V, since that is what it seems to say now after your edit. --Bob K31416 (talk) 05:01, 27 January 2012 (UTC)
Disambiguation link notificationHi. When you recently edited Reactions to Occupy Wall Street, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Chinese (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject. It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot (talk) 11:46, 27 January 2012 (UTC) Official administrative warningsI wanted to let you know that your concern about an official warning about edit warring (towards me) was made twice. Once by the Admin I sought guidence from and once at the end of the 3RR/n. While it didn't earn a block, it did earn such an official warning from the closing admin. I make this post as a conciliatory gesture to show that admin do make these warnings.--Amadscientist (talk) 00:18, 29 January 2012 (UTC)
RfCIt might be worth knowing (e.g. via the talk-page history) that Jakeinjoisy has already tried to remove the RfC template once... Nomoskedasticity (talk) 19:26, 1 February 2012 (UTC)
WP:V talk pageNo, I don't mind you mentioning me, but what are you saying that I don't understand? (BTW, I've only been on Wikipedia for 2 years.) A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 19:10, 3 February 2012 (UTC)
RfDMay I ask you to revisit and read my reasoning? SchmuckyTheCat (talk) Crime/Security Concerns/SecurityI've brought the discussion back here again.Racingstripes (talk) 04:43, 15 February 2012 (UTC) De nadaNot at all. I thought it was hilarious, and right on point. Which was the problem, per WP:POINT. I was actually tempted to do something similar myself. Good to be editing with you again. I know we don't always agree, and we got on each others nerves on the astrology article, but I respect you a lot. You're a good balance to my "kill them all and let God sort them out" mentality. Good luck! Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 06:04, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
A recent change contains copyright materialA change you made recently contains copyright material too closely paraphrased. Please see the talk pgae at Talk:Occupy Wall Street.--Amadscientist (talk) 21:19, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Great to see you active againI've initiated discussion on how to address the inconsistencies between "what is occupy wall street?" (specifically what it encompasses regarding how to cover it in an encyclopedia) vs "what is the occupy movement?" because the articles were made independently of one another. Both are considered "active, ongoing protests movements" but clearly they overlap too much, with no coordination of what belongs on each article. I'd be glad to hear all your ideas, since you have a fresh perspective. I lean towards making both articles clear, understandable, and complementary to each other (rather than each article casting confusion about how information is being presented in the other article). There is also disagreement on whether every substituent city is autonomous, or under the watchful, all-controlling eye of the nycga. Also, welcome back! 완젬스 (talk) 21:20, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Keep up the good work. I've devoted about 3 weeks for work on wikipedia, because I was having a slowdown in my work life. Now it's hectic for a few days, but I just wanted to say you're owning it up on Wikipedia, and improving the articles very rapidly. You've contributed a little bit to my laziness, lol. I'll try to put in a few hours on Saturday and Sunday, and I'll stand behind the cleanup you want on the articles. They are the result of editor-complacency, and to do what needs to be done will naturally ruffle some people's feathers. Consider the unfortunate reactions of people who are resistant to consider the occupy movement in a 2011 sense (rather than a 2012 sense) as the natural consequence of disrupting the status quo. Your leadership in bringing about article improvements has been incontrovertible in my eyes. 완젬스 (talk) 04:04, 21 February 2012 (UTC) A kitten for you!Oh you crybaby--here, play with this kitten. (It's really, really, really good to have you back!) Gandydancer (talk) 00:17, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
Oh brother...Want to come over and we'll drink tequila shots till we are out of our minds drunk? Bring the new kitty and just for fun we'll watch my cat Kika spit and hiss at her!!! Gandydancer (talk) 13:48, 18 February 2012 (UTC)
Amadscientist has asked me to ask you if you want to be part of a project to coordinate all the Occupy articles (see my talk page). I'm sure it's a good idea but I don't know if I can take any more hassle right now - suddenly my talk page is getting crowded with evidence about what a bad editor I am (sigh). Wikipedia used to be fun, but no more... Gandydancer (talk) 11:54, 25 February 2012 (UTC) Ichthus: January 2012
In this issue... Ichthus is published by WikiProject Christianity
For submissions and subscriptions contact the Newsroom What are you doing for Lent? Give up Wikipedia? Gandydancer (talk) 12:01, 25 February 2012 (UTC) Mediation Cabal: Request for participationDear Becritical: Hello. This is just to let you know that you've been mentioned in the following request at the Mediation Cabal, which is a Wikipedia dispute resolution initiative that resolves disputes by informal mediation. The request can be found at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/27 February 2012/Wikipedia:Verifiability. Just so you know, it is entirely your choice whether or not you participate. If you wish to do so, and we'll see what we can do about getting this sorted out. At MedCab we aim to help all involved parties reach a solution and hope you will join in this effort. If you have any questions relating to this or any other issue needing mediation, you can ask on the case talk page, the MedCab talk page, or you can ask the mediator, Mr. Stradivarius, at their talk page. MedcabBot (talk) 15:43, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't think soKindly revert this edit. [10] By what stretch of imagination to you think there is any consensus on this change in policy? This is just tag-team edit warring since Dreadstar has already reverted twice. Fladrif (talk) 01:40, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
HiI mention you in passing here, do please come along and have a say. Penyulap talk 09:18, 4 March 2012 (UTC) Merge discussion for Occupy Wall StreetAn article that you have been involved in editing, Occupy Wall Street , has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going here, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Amadscientist (talk) 02:59, 5 March 2012 (UTC) FYII could not help noticing that you have a dispute going over some removed edits. You posted right under a post of mine about a similar problem on Invisible Children, Inc.. I just thought it might interest you that the user with whom you have the dispute "removed" both your notification of the dispute and my request for an explanation of why they were removing my edits as well. I thought you might like to use this point in your further discussions. I think that when more than one person is having the same problem with an editor, something is up. Take Care.--Ishtar456 (talk) 12:19, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
Well, I didn't know if the fact that he removed your notice might not be an indicator that you have tried to solve the problem while he(?) is unwilling. I was just surprised by it when it came up on my watch list as "removed" because I have seen that edit note a lot lately from that editor. I agree, it is disruptive. But, Wikipedia is a hostile environment. Take Care, --Ishtar456 (talk) 20:44, 11 March 2012 (UTC)
Why would you want to turn Wikipedia into this?I consider that proposal to be a fuming, scathing attempt to blatantly "hijack" wikipedia for the sake of orchestrating hate & vitriol from the readers. We serve our readers--we don't use them for political purposes (cough, cough, at least not without "consensus") so I'm going to try my best to explain it here why you might want to take a second look at what others are saying:
When you draw a line in the sand, and go into "full metal jacket" type of Chuck Norris implementation of your grandiose visions for the article, you must retreat from it rather than double down & threaten a roundhouse kick to anyone who dare form their consensus without you. I tried to make this post friendly and humorous to help you recoup and *hopefully* rethink what Amadscientist and SomeDifferentStuff are telling you. (not that I don't get into my fair share of friendly jesting with either of them, but hey! eventually you'll forget about this paramount issue, or watch a really good movie or have a good lay and that's when you realize you took life a little bit too seriously back in a Wikipedia edit war!) I'm on your side, fwiw. 완젬스 (talk) 08:11, 13 March 2012 (UTC) Mediation Cabal: Request for participationDear Becritical: Hello. This is just to let you know that you've been mentioned in the following request at the Mediation Cabal, which is a Wikipedia dispute resolution initiative that resolves disputes by informal mediation. The request can be found at Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/16 March 2012/Occupy Wall Street. Just so you know, it is entirely your choice whether or not you participate. If you wish to do so, and we'll see what we can do about getting this sorted out. At MedCab we aim to help all involved parties reach a solution and hope you will join in this effort. If you have any questions relating to this or any other issue needing mediation, you can ask on the case talk page, the MedCab talk page, or you can ask the mediator, Whenaxis, at their talk page. MedcabBot (talk) 01:16, 16 March 2012 (UTC)
Help pleaseHi there Be. If I change an article name ( Great Dismal Swamp maroons ) to "Great Dismal Swamp Maroons" (cap M) do I need to do more than just change the letter M? I understand that it has a re-direct from Great Dismal Swamp Maroons already. Hope you can help me. Best, Gandy Gandydancer (talk) 20:50, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
NoteI thought this might interest you: Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/TimidGuy_ban_appeal. A very long-standing admin was just banned (not just de-opped, but banned) basically for repeatedly referring to an editor's COI in a debate. Don't consider this a warning, though maybe it should be... but really it's just something I thought you'd find interesting, given the current situation at our discussion. Equazcion (talk) 03:58, 20 Mar 2012 (UTC) WP:V mediation straw pollHello BeCritical, this is just to let you know that we are having a straw poll about how many drafts to include in the proposed RfC about Wikipedia:Verifiability. The result of this straw poll will have a large effect on the direction the mediation takes, so if you could let us know your preferred number over at the mediation page, I would be very grateful. I am thinking of leaving the discussion open at least until 10am (UTC) on Thursday, March 22, and possibly longer if we require more time to reach a consensus. Best — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 16:21, 20 March 2012 (UTC) Reactions to OWSI wasn't sure where to put this on the article talk page so will mention here. Is the poll set up properly? You have support and oppose below your version but nothing under the other version. Also, I find your version almost impossible to read - couldn't it be divided into a few paragraphs? Gandydancer (talk) 09:41, 23 March 2012 (UTC)
Post-discussion & minor quibblesSince the article is already discussing "conservative" criticism, it is no longer needed to mention it twice (i.e. a "conservative" radio show host & i.i.e. in the article under "conservative criticism of OWS has sometimes been...) so can we signify that Rush Limbaugh is not mainstream? Since conservative is already mentioned, can we change "conservative" to "controversial" on the second mention where you state "On October 5, 2011, conservative talk radio host Rush Limbaugh told..." and change it to "On October 5, 2011, controversial talk radio host Rush Limbaugh told..." because as you know (especially after the Sandra Fluke maelstrom he erupted, that he is definitely a racist, sexist pig.) In no way does he represent a majority tea-party view nor a majority republican view. He was even forced to apologize not just by the republican establishment, but also by all three republican presidential candidates. (for Romney & Newt Gingrich & Rick Santorum) Also, as I'm sure you already know, Glenn Beck is a cult leader. He instructs people to buy freeze-dried food (like Astronaut ice cream) and for people to hoard in gold, because Ben Bernanke is out to cause hyper-inflation. Glenn Beck also believes that the Arab Spring is the first domino in a chain reaction to orchestrate a global Caliphate which hopefully you know is also ridiculous. Glenn Beck basically says there are 4 E's which can save America from it's inevitable downward decline, and that through “Enlightenment, Education, Empowerment and Entrepreneurship" which of course is just a play on the letter "E" with a string of "feel good" messages which are vague enough to apply to multiple scenarios. Most people only know how loony (source) that Glenn Beck is based on fragmented remarks replayed on other mainstream television outlets. If you have bittorrent and can search for keyword "GBTV" and listen to an entire half-hour, he is inexplicably a cult leader. I don't know how anybody else (who isn't a racist conservative or a brainwashed Christian) can mistake him for being an actual prophet. He's just a charismatic capitalist who makes $32 million per year while "selling" a consumer-driven product, which is why a guy can get rich by telling conservatives that Barack Obama is a muslim & that occupy wall street is a domino which will lead to the muslim brotherhood eventually taking over Europe and then socialism/communism taking over America. If you have never watched an entire episode, please download or find a webstream so that you'll understand why I think Glenn Beck is even more crazy than the mainstream media reports. He's a nutjob, a paranoid schizophrenic, and a self-proclaimed prophet. Or, alternatively, he's duping his followers into believing he's something he's not, and laughing all the way to the bank to the means of $32,000,000 per year. Either way, he's a threat to the occupy movement; and, I hope you can put a couple descriptors about him, the same way you said "Rush Limbaugh, a conservative radio host..." since not all the Wikipedia readers (who want to know more information about Occupy Wall Street & its movement) will already know who Glenn Beck is. I'm just asking for a preface of who he is before you unload his obfuscating disinformation, that: "Capitalists, if you think that you can play footsies with these people, you are wrong. They will come for you and drag you into the streets and kill you. They will do it. They’re not messing around." To me, if you carelessly disseminate his message for him (without source-boxing it to him, and prefacing it as "his statement" etc...) then you might be doing him a favor, but you're definitely hurting the OWS movement by not prefacing/qualifying/contexting his upcoming brainwash. As a Korean, this Glenn Beck guy scares the creeps out of me. For him to be so oppressive toward Asians & so influential in the Tea Party, it is a shame you haven't thought first to wrap his statement up in content disclaimers or put his message (about killing you) into the perspective of "who he is" (i.e. how we described him in the Glenn Beck article) so that average readers won't think that OWS protesters are actually capable of killing unarmed civilians who amicably support our movement. I see this quote as Glenn Beck's attempt to appeal to the same target individuals that our movement is trying to appeal to (the 99% i.e. 270mil of 300mil Americans) because he uses fear, while not really caring how the bottom 99% of America can benefit from the goals of the occupy movement. You know I'm very "pro-OWS" and so I see every addition of new content in terms of black & white--i.e. whether or not it helps or hurts the movement. Please understand my perspective so you can see why I'm flipping out about what might be just a "minor issue" to you, because it is imperative that our occupy movement succeeds in the court of public opinion. Once you allow Glenn Beck to testify as he pleases, then he can freely proselytize our OWS-sympathetic readers. All I'm saying is to shackle him, make him wear a straight-jacket and don him with a tin foil hat before he goes on the witness stand (and spews his quote which you recite for him) so that the jury knows how to disqualify his remarks as nothing more than hyperbole which I think a diligent consensus of our fellow editors would readily attest to:
Looking forward to your incorporation of this feedback into the finalized version--thanks, 완젬스 (talk) 08:15, 24 March 2012 (UTC) I'm going to go through this and respond as I read. Since the article is already discussing "conservative" criticism, it is no longer needed to mention it twice (i.e. a "conservative" radio show host & i.i.e. in the article under "conservative criticism of OWS has sometimes been...) so can we signify that Rush Limbaugh is not mainstream? Since conservative is already mentioned, can we change "conservative" to "controversial" on the second mention where you state "On October 5, 2011, conservative talk radio host Rush Limbaugh told..." and change it to "On October 5, 2011, controversial talk radio host Rush Limbaugh told..." because as you know (especially after the Sandra Fluke maelstrom he erupted, that he is definitely a racist, sexist pig.) In no way does he represent a majority tea-party view nor a majority republican view. He was even forced to apologize not just by the republican establishment, but also by all three republican presidential candidates. (for Romney & Newt Gingrich & Rick Santorum)
Also, as I'm sure you already know, Glenn Beck is a cult leader. He instructs people to buy freeze-dried food (like Astronaut ice cream) and for people to hoard in gold, because Ben Bernanke is out to cause hyper-inflation. Glenn Beck also believes that the Arab Spring is the first domino in a chain reaction to orchestrate a global Caliphate which hopefully you know is also ridiculous. Glenn Beck basically says there are 4 E's which can save America from it's inevitable downward decline, and that through “Enlightenment, Education, Empowerment and Entrepreneurship" which of course is just a play on the letter "E" with a string of "feel good" messages which are vague enough to apply to multiple scenarios. Most people only know how loony (source) that Glenn Beck is based on fragmented remarks replayed on other mainstream television outlets. If you have bittorrent and can search for keyword "GBTV" and listen to an entire half-hour, he is inexplicably a cult leader. I don't know how anybody else (who isn't a racist conservative or a brainwashed Christian) can mistake him for being an actual prophet. He's just a charismatic capitalist who makes $32 million per year while "selling" a consumer-driven product, which is why a guy can get rich by telling conservatives that Barack Obama is a muslim & that occupy wall street is a domino which will lead to the muslim brotherhood eventually taking over Europe and then socialism/communism taking over America. If you have never watched an entire episode, please download or find a webstream so that you'll understand why I think Glenn Beck is even more crazy than the mainstream media reports. He's a nutjob, a paranoid schizophrenic, and a self-proclaimed prophet. Or, alternatively, he's duping his followers into believing he's something he's not, and laughing all the way to the bank to the means of $32,000,000 per year.
Either way, he's a threat to the occupy movement;
To me, if you carelessly disseminate his message for him (without source-boxing it to him, and prefacing it as "his statement" etc...)
then you might be doing him a favor, but you're definitely hurting the OWS movement by not prefacing/qualifying/contexting his upcoming brainwash.
You know I'm very "pro-OWS" and so I see every addition of new content in terms of black & white--i.e. whether or not it helps or hurts the movement. Please understand my perspective so you can see why I'm flipping out about what might be just a "minor issue" to you, because it is imperative that our occupy movement succeeds in the court of public opinion. Once you allow Glenn Beck to testify as he pleases, then he can freely proselytize our OWS-sympathetic readers. All I'm saying is to shackle him, make him wear a straight-jacket and don him with a tin foil hat before he goes on the witness stand (and spews his quote which you recite for him) so that the jury knows how to disqualify his remarks as nothing more than hyperbole which I think a diligent consensus of our fellow editors would readily attest to:
Looking forward to your incorporation of this feedback into the finalized version--thanks, 완젬스 (talk) 08:15, 24 March 2012 (UTC) WP:VThought I'd let you know that I've copied a draft of yours to a new page for drafts at Wikipedia:Mediation_Cabal/Cases/27_February_2012/Wikipedia:Verifiability/Group_3, which is part of Stage 4 of the mediation. I was looking back over the drafts for a good example of one which doesn't actually use the words "verification, not truth", but uses other words to express the difference between perceived truth and verification. Thought your one expresses the main point really well! Kalidasa 777 (talk) 08:15, 25 March 2012 (UTC) I have mention you hereHello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. --ER 22:10, 25 March 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edwinramos2 (talk • contribs) Edit-warring warning. You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war according to the reverts you have made on New Testament Christian Churches of America. Users are expected to collaborate with others, to avoid editing disruptively, and to try to reach a consensus rather than repeatedly undoing other users' edits once it is known that there is a disagreement. Please be particularly aware, Wikipedia's policy on edit warring states:
If you find yourself in an editing dispute, use the article's talk page to discuss controversial changes; work towards a version that represents consensus among editors. You can post a request for help at an appropriate noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases it may be appropriate to request temporary page protection. If you engage in an edit war, you may be blocked from editing.--ER 23:17, 25 March 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edwinramos2 (talk • contribs) Cheers, Be. Saw on noticeboard that you were having trouble with this editor and decided to give a helping hand. Major competence problem here. I've watchlisted and will keep an eye on the article. Good luck! Dominus Vobisdu (talk) 23:36, 25 March 2012 (UTC) Brilliant emphasis on subtleties! (-:Regarding this diff, I was busy with work and came back to check my watchlist, and I was already brainstorming a way to propose you & I collaborate together on improving the various OWS articles (such as this failed attempt here with another editor) because after all the efforts you put into the criticism section of the "reaction to OWS" article, I realized you have the same energy, passion, and brilliance that could rival any editor in the current list of active editors (for OWS). As you may be starting to recognize, we're both trying to "make the OWS articles better" for lack of a better term. I never could understand why you wanted to hinder my efforts of removing "sabotage/toxicity" from the articles until you gave me the breakdown of OWS's target audience. I don't have the diff available, but it was when you said something like "30% of ows wiki readers are a lost cause, xyz % are independents, and that's who we are trying to appeal to which is what decided for me to give you a second look. I think in the last 5 days, you've cleared up many of the doubts I've had toward you. Let's say we get started together and coordinate our explanations (privately) on our talk pages, so we can understand what each other are trying to do. If others want to chime in (such as Gandy, Equazcion, or FactChecker@YourService) then they're more than welcome to the party. I have a long post about Trayvon Martin which I need to get out of the way, so I'll go ahead and take care of that first. What this new section to your talk page is formally proposing is that we try to instantly clear up any disagreements or miscommunications about what either of our intentions are, for any major edit or major revert we may happen to inflict upon one another. It's also a call to stick with this newfound commitment at least through Nov 2012, because that is the timeframe that the nycga expects this "occupy movement" to play out. (if you remember, the racist tea party resulted in a "shellacking" in the midterm 2010 elections, but so long as we win in the court of public opinion, we'll get 4 more years of Obama rather than the poster child for the 1%) So, I'll end this passionate diatribe with a microcosm of philosophy... --If you ever wanted to influence the perception which people/sheeple have about Republicans, capitalism, and corporate greed, then Wikipedia is your most efficient platform to reach the widest (and most persuadable) audience; and, if you know this and I know this, then let's minimize the amount of cross-cancellation effects we have on each other while working semi-independently. Let's try to coordinate our reasoning/motivation in a humble (no-ego) communication process whereby we don't cancel each other out as much, since that way we give each other the freedom I envision--you do your thing & I'll do my thing. And whenever there is a budding edit-war, we'll do our best to apply chemotherapy to our nascent disagreements before it can metastasize. The reason we do it is because we believe we can make a difference & not because we think we're just a drop of water in an endless sea. With that said, if you think you can make a difference in the world, you'll join me. If not, you can tacitly dismiss this proposal in a covert manner which leaves it ambiguous whether or not "you're in" while still maintaining your perceived independence/neutrality (and any breaks we give each other are pure coincidence) so let me hit "submit" so I can get started on my Occupy Wikiproject which will be red-linked for just another 30 minutes or so. Happy editing, 완젬스 (talk) 10:28, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
WP:V mediation compromise draftsHello BeCritical, this is just to let you know that to help find compromise drafts at the verifiability mediation, I would like each mediation participant to submit at least one draft at one work group that includes the best of all the previously submitted drafts of that work group. This will probably make more sense if you look at this section on the mediation page, but if anything is still unclear, just let me know. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 17:31, 31 March 2012 (UTC) Friendly FYI...Hi There! Just wanted to give you a friendly FYI... This is from the GLAAD website... http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender Problematic: "transgendered" Preferred: "transgender" The adjective transgender should never have an extraneous "-ed" tacked onto the end. An "-ed" suffix adds unnecessary length to the word and can cause tense confusion and grammatical errors. For example, it is grammatically incorrect to turn transgender into a participle, as it is an adjective, not a verb, and only verbs can be used as participles by adding an "-ed" suffix. You seem to be very persistent on including the above derogatory word on Jamie Clayton's Wiki page so I just wanted to let you know this info. Also, with all the references and info available about her on the net it seems a little repetitive (and weird) that you keep putting it in there. Anyway, have a great weekend! :) MissDepeche (talk) 09:59, 1 April 2012 (UTC) Jamie Clayton PageHi There, I got the message you left. Thank you! Yes, Jamie Clayton is a transgender woman. She is also a human being and deserves respect. Just like you and I. Just like everyone deserves. It is rude to use improper language when talking about her. Also, she is not a "transgender actress". Her gender has nothing to do with her career. You wouldn't say "black actress" would you? How about "elderly actress". I removed the article with "gay actors" in the title because Jamie is not gay. Also, the video that accompanied that article is referenced ("a transgender voice") and is a great example of the positive work Jamie has done for the trans community. I apologize for not explaining the edit... I had no idea I was supposed to. I don't want to cause any trouble on Wiki and I hope that this has helped you understand my edit (and possibly Jamie) a little more. Thanks again and have a great Sunday!MissDepeche (talk) 19:48, 1 April 2012 (UTC) Re: Jamie Clayton PageHi Again, I got your last message, thank you. I thought I explained that the reason I removed reference number four was because of the title of the article. Also, that the video that accompanies the article is referenced (number one). The video is beautiful whereas the article says Clayton was "born a man". This is extremely offensive. I do not know you and I don't expect you to understand what trans people have to deal with on a daily basis. Especially someone like Miss Clayton who has chosen to live her life visibly to inspire others and show the world that we are all equal. What I do hope though is that you have some sensitivity to trans people in general. Jamie is doing so much good for our community but, she can't control what the media says about her. Yes, she is trans. At the end of the day though she is just a woman. A woman who is trying to be successful and change peoples minds about a very misunderstood subject. I do not know who created her Wiki page and I do agree that editing is a collaboration but, Jamie is not hiding anything as people can plainly see in all the links and references. I ask that you question your involvement in the editing of her page and ask yourself if this is really a subject that is close to your heart. Thank you very much for all your time. MissDepeche (talk) 03:32, 2 April 2012 (UTC) Hello BeCritical, Well, I have to say that after reading your last message it is obvious that you haven't listened to anything I've said. Again, you have used a derogatory word when discussing Miss Clayton. You are not only offending her, you are literally offending every single trans person. I'm new to this but, I guess it really is true that behind computer screens people are big bullies. The reference I deleted is not just offensive to me, it is offensive to the entire LGBT community. A community that you obviously do not belong or relate to. Which makes me wonder why you are even concerned with Jamie's page. There are plenty of other references. I really do not understand why you care so deeply about including this one. I really hope that you and the people in your life you care about never experience the level of insensitivity you are displaying towards Miss Clayton. MissDepeche (talk) 07:04, 2 April 2012 (UTC) WP:V mediation step fiveHello BeCritical, this is another update about the verifiability mediation. We have now started step five, in which we will work towards deciding a final draft for each work group. I would like you to submit a statement about this - have a look at the mediation page to see the details of what you should include. The deadline for this step is 10.00 am on Friday 6th April (UTC), and unlike the other steps I am going to be strict about it. If you don't leave a statement by the deadline, then you won't be able to participate in steps six or seven. If you think you are going to be late turning in your statement, please let me know as soon as possible - I can't promise anything, but it will be much easier to work out alternative arrangements now than it would be after the deadline has passed. Best regards — Mr. Stradivarius ♫ 17:37, 2 April 2012 (UTC) Coordinating some cleanupHey friend, maybe you can give me some honest feedback. Lately, I've taken a wikibreak because I ran into a huge brickwall. My principal motivation was to "cleanup" the occupy mess here on Wikipedia. Back in late 2011, there was an apparent bandwagon of reducing the "celebrity reaction" and other low-key details about the movement. Now I feel like life is cyclical. So tell me, are we back in an "expansion phase" on the occupy articles? Secondly, what is my blind spot? I recently ran into some good action by rectifying a Keith-Olbermann dispute with Equaczion which was terrific because I feel slighted by him, but was able to propose (and him accept) a compromise. However, even with Gandy, I feel like I'm oblivious to some major "attitude affront" which I emanate but am consistently unaware of. Back in late 2011, I was like the "party guy" who was able to rally everyone against Dualus and coordinated the subtle efforts in getting him banned (such as calling him "invincible") plus lots of other small tactics which created a holistic "bad guy" image for him to fit into. Now I'm suddenly the guy who wants to massively improve the article, but nobody sees me as the "party guy" anymore; and, everyone tries to block me. Am I perhaps the last one to get off the bandwagon, or have the tides shifted & I'm the last one to get on board the new tumbleweed of wiki-decision making? Where did I go wrong? Thirdly, how do I go about raising a discussion about what can be fixed? I try to reach out on editors talk pages, I almost constructed an occupy-wikiproject, and lately I'm thinking of recruiting FB editors who are totally new to Wikipedia (and would expose me as the leader of all these sudden random ip-editors) but that's where I'm sitting at the moment. I got passion; I got energy; and when I have free time available (since I think I'm the only one of us who struggles in the world of freelance employment--where if you don't produce perfect work every time, then your referrals end and your reputation dries up) I love readying the main OWS page for whatever will happen next. I'm anticipating the next big thing for OWS, which should have happened in April (but won't obviously, because of "social issues" being dominated by Trayvon Martin) so now I'm left twiddling my thumbs and doubting the FB grapevine. I think the OWS movement is in a lull, and I don't think they can build up a pyramid of interest which climaxes on May 1st (Mayday) since there is a lot of bureacratic inertia amongst the inner-workings gridlock I get to listen to every day. Sometimes I just gotta tune them out for a day or two, unlike here. So with that said, give me some advice. I'm a Wikipedia editor and I want to make a difference this year just like I was making last year. Sometimes I do what I feel is right, even if it's not doing what's popular. Maybe I could vanish and get a new screen name (starting out as an IP again) or maybe outing myself here so everyone knows who I am (and as Amadcientist said, it's not too hard to figure out). Maybe you have a good enough barometer for the winds of Wikipedia that you can tell me which things I'd like to accomplish (after all, you know me by now) that would not run into resistance (because everywhere I try in good faith to accomplish a lot, I get stonewalled & blindsided due to my inability to predict which areas where my improvements would be met with low resistivity). Thanks for your help--you'll be unleashing a passionate OWS supporter if you can just give me a battle report and summary assessment of my current dilemma. All the best, 완젬스 (talk) 08:39, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
Bonus QuestionYou've given me some great advice. I hate "letting go" of my wikipedia screen name and WP:Vanishing, but truthfully I believe it's the most intelligent option. I really liked being so open about my involvement on facebook and predicting that particular NYTimes article, but if that's what I'm into, then maybe I should join a forum or something like that, lol. Indeed, I see what you're saying. I am feeling the hints that I should treat Wikipedia as an online encyclopedia where anyone can edit, and there are basic rules which help determine how the community judges an editor. If I stick to a "basic editing style" whereby I predictably cite WP:Policies at every corner and angle, then I'll be treated as a full fledged Wikipedian rather than a Korean, pro-OWS wiki-personality which I'm unable to break out of (without WP:Vanishing). I really liked my "shoot from the hip" & "tell it like it is" type of style I built here. It helps other editors trust me, since they know my agenda is to help OWS and there's no subversiveness or duplicity--kind of like how I trust editors more who lay down their political beliefs on their user page (such as my obama user box, or others who identify as liberal/conservative/michael-moore/ron-paul/etc...) but more on that later. Can I ask, what percentage of your personality do you "show" here on Wikipedia? Like 50% or more like 10% because I really try to understand how much the "wikipedia hat" takes place of who they are in real life or on facebook. I've always treated Wikipedia sincerely since I believed it helps others recognize my real personality and my real passion. I'll probably wrap up my OWS editing career on this account before May 1st, and stick to my non-OWS articles like the Trayvon Martin shooting. (and then phase it out in a few weeks) These insights will help give me greater understanding of what perspective my peers on Wikipedia have when editing the OWS articles, since that is where my core interest lies. I'm glad to know you're pro-OWS and hopefully would like to see Obama re-elected. I apologize for letting myself be convinced you wanted to poison/make-toxic an article I cared deeply about; but, since we're the #1 search result on google for Occupy Wall Street I felt like we're the #1 destination for managing the perception problems which OWS faces while it struggles to establish itself. I'm so sorry that the movement has been a mixture of disappointment and success. The mere fact that no one is in charge gives the group an indeterminate figurehead. If you ask a random occupy protester who the leader of our movement is, they'll honestly say they don't know. That's why I'm careful about creating the NYCGA article for fear of disrupting the balance which our readers consume to formulate their narrative of the occupy movement. I don't want to disilluion the ignorant folks (like this poor schmuck) who support our movement for the completely wrong reasons! Do you know how scary it is that if we told the truth to our supporters we would lose a sizable majority of them? It's crazy how much the occupy wall street movement is able to appeal to people in unique, personal ways--much like "hope/change" meant a different thing to different people--all who rallied behind Obama. It's no longer working because OWS is losing its appeal (per the polling research in my ows article I cited on the ows talk page) which is only worsening as the media frenzy drowns itself in the Trayvon Martin news/entertainment 24-hour cycle. Sorry if this post is ramblesome--I really studied my past interactions during my recent wikibreak and it feels good to lay down my honest thoughts & get great feedback from someone who wishes to empower me and supports my goal of improving the OWS articles. I just hope my time spent being involved in the OWS movement isn't all for naught. This was the liberals free opportunity to creating a political movement equally effective as the tea party; but, a handful of attention-whores & psychopaths (in leadership, no less) have been unable to protect the movement from their own self-interests, such as greed/fame/celebrity status. This ends with my paramount agreement in your statement that, "Always be anonymous, always!" because those are the people who have no vested interest and cannot steer a group cause toward a personal endeavor, no matter how good their intention is. I've learned a lot from the OWS movement, and I hope you have too. Thanks in advance, 완젬스 (talk) 14:32, 4 April 2012 (UTC)
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