Please be aware that I like to centralize my discussions with other editors in one location. I will usually continue discussion on the talk page where contact was first initiated. If contact was first initiated on this page, I will leave a note on your talk page indicating when I reply here. If contact was first initiated on your talk page and you reply here, I will continue the discussion here. Also, be aware that I will revert the deletion of any comments left on this page. Consider your comments carefully before you post them.
Not a problem about the citations. I have no problem with listing off where this info came from. However, things like the history of the franchise were taken from writeups on the team's own website, which is already listed down in the External Links section. Putting the same site there again under a "reference" section seems a little redundant. I never actually copy any data verbatim, which is why I don't have a direct reference, I tend to just glean the important details and make up my own paragraphs.
Also, things like the records for each season, and which teams were in the playoffs, are undisputed and are widely available from many sources. I'm not sure what type of citation, if any, would be needed for that.
For whatever it's worth, on this particular page, a couple of us in WikiProject Baseball have tried to get the "current roster" removed and replaced with a link to the team's page. The same couple users seem to insist on changing the page manually every two or three days when they make a player move, which is not the idea. So if you can be of any help with that....
I've done quite a number of the other teams in the Eastern League in a similar format, so if you'd like to browse the others and see what else you think needs cited, I wouldn't mind. Let me know. Dakern7403:14, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the reply. It seems like a number of editors opt to accept the External Links section as a method of citation, but I'm a bit weary. I don't know if there has been any discussion on this, but I would much rather see a source removed from External Links and added to a Reference section if indeed the source was used in the article. It makes the use of the reference explicit, whereas listing a source in External Links does not necessarily tell the reader that the source was used in the article.
I'm also not sure what kind of citation would be needed for undisputed content, except to say that I would be inclined to cite the source that is considered the most reliable and is the most up to date. I see no harm in sourcing undisputed content since it is the citation itself that will let unfamiliar readers know that the content is not disputed.
Can you provide a link to the discussion about the link to the current roster? I'll try to be of help in that area and with other articles as time permits. -- backburner00115:15, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There's another person named User:Win777 who was involved in that. You can check his talk page. I kinda gave up the fight since I'm not an admin or anything. But if you look at the history, they do add/remove new players about every two days. As for the "factual" things like records, some of the teams have it on their own sites, but I also have the media guides for my two local teams in Connecticut. And they have pages back through the years where they list off the final standings for the whole league. So it seems odd to cite another team's media guide in an article about what this team did 10 years ago.
What about a dual label for the section, like "external links / references"?... some of this (playoffs) also comes from the league website, and that could have some interest to followers of the team also. Dakern7415:44, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I've viewed to discussion on Win777's talk page, deleted the roster in the article, and left a comment on the Aeros talk page. I agree that the roster doesn't belong in the article. Hopefully, this will help either keep the roster off the article or at least jumpstart discussion about it if it gets added back.
I agree; citing references from another team's media guide does look somewhat awkward. However, I am inclined to still favor it for the purpose of demonstrating that the article is sourced. However, I certainly don't think it would be a bad idea to see if those stats can be cited from less-awkward looking source.
I'm not sure if there is consensus on Wikipedia about dual labels for one "External links/References" section. I do think some articles use it, but I don't know if there has been any discussion on the practice. I'm inclined to prefer two seperate sections as they lend themselves to different uses and are clearer when viewed seperately. But that's more of a stylistic preference on my part. The most important thing right now is making sure the article is sourced appropriately. -- backburner00114:49, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
The roster is back. Incidentally, if you look at the history, we tried at one time to leave a link to the team's own roster page, but that didn't work either. Dakern7403:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I removed it again. Until the editors who keep adding it back actually talk to us, the roster goes. It's as simple as that. -- backburner00113:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm with you. I have not checked lately, but I think there are a couple other teams (Binghamton Mets comes to mind) that have the same "problem". If you'd like to help take on those editors as well, let me know. Dakern7418:19, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I'm willing to bring this issue up in other articles too. If you find any articles of particular interest, please let me know here and I'll take a look. -- backburner00113:40, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What's wrong with current rosters? As long as its kept up-to-date, which it has been, I think it should be allowed. What's the difference between updating roster and people updating things like team standings and stats everyday? What's wrong with a baseball team's page having info on the players that play the game? Andouble, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
I replaced because many high school articles have theirs as a bit of pride-the songs, I understand and even agree with the removal-the alma mater, no. If you want to do that, I suggest that you start removing every alma mater from every article for the sake of consistency.-Hornandsoccer22:44, 18 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
When I deleted the alma mater from those two high school articles, I cited a sub-section of WP:NOT as my rationale for the deletion. There is no specific point that prohibits the deletion of school songs, but I think deleting the alma maters adheres to the spirit of not creating an indiscriminate collection of information. Every high school has an alma mater and just having one does not make a high school notable. It would be different, of course, if the school's alma mater had some notable history or controversy behind it that would easily identify its notability to the school (ex: a controversy over the wording of the song, etc). But, even then, it seems highly doubtful that adding the lyrics of the song would be appropriate. I would instead focus the article on the history or controversy itself instead of the lyrics.
Yes, other school articles may still have the lyrics to their alma maters. But that hardly justifies keeping it. I highly doubt you would allow blatant vandalism to remain in one article just because you've found it unaddressed in another. Why should we treat this any differently? -- backburner00113:37, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
What I'm saying is that if you delete the alma mater from one article, you may as well go about deleting them all for consistency.-Hornandsoccer17:28, 22 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I know that is what you are saying. I addressed issues of consistency in my replies above (which you seem to have missed). Anyway, I've decided to seek some input on this matter on this talk page before moving forward with deleting lyrics from other high school articles. -- backburner00113:53, 24 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I know that this topic hasn't been discussed in a while, but I would to revive it for just a minute. In response, after having spent more time on Wikipedia, is that there actually is an interesting story with the alma mater. An Ignatius grad, Jack T. Hearns '37 wrote the alma mater when he was band director (mid 1950's, I think), but Xavier copied it. I'm still working on citing that, but I think that fits your qualifications to keep it. In retrospect, I apologize for being harsh with the whole 'delete 'em everywhere' attitude. HornandsoccerTalk22:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Apology accepted and appreciated. You really weren't that harsh.
It appears that the WP:NOT has been updated since we last had this discussion. Refer to #8, which states the following:
"Most song lyrics are protected by copyright. Exceptions include traditional songs whose lyrics are in the public domain. However, even in this case the article may not consist solely of the lyrics, but has to primarily contain information about authorship, date of publication, social impact, etc. Source text generally belongs on WikiSource."
I would say, do not post the entire alma mater. However, with cited material, mentioning information about it's authorship, etc, should be okay. -- backburner00101:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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This is the first issue of WikiProject Ohio's newsletter. The newsletter is intended to help all members of the project to keep up with new developments and coordinate new collaborative efforts. If you would like to suggest something to be included in the next newsletter please see:The Newsdesk
Project News
*New features have been added to the project banner. All articles now need to be assessed for importance as well as class. There are approximately 60,000 articles under Category:Ohio that still need the banner added to their talk pages as well.
Editors and Contributors Needed
*We are in need of editors for this newsletter. If you are interested please visit:The Newsletter Project Page. Also, the The Ohio Portal is seeking Wikipedians to nominate selected articles, sports teams, biographies, and images. The portal is also seeking maintainers.
Areas needing attention
Assessment requests: There may be Requests for assessment needing to be answered. To see new assessment requests as they come in, you can watch the assessment page.
Recently a number of Ohio related articles have achieved featured status. We at WikiProject Ohio would like the editors of those pages for their hard work.
Here's Issue II of the project newsletter. We're trying to decide if this is sinking or floating. If you would like to contribute to next month's newsletter please jump right in at the News Desk! Have a great May.
The Ohio Portal
The maintainers of the Ohio Portal are looking to get it to featured status. They would like to ask all project members to help improve it any way they can. What needs to be done most is the supplying of selected articles and images.
There is a eight ton rock in Ohio that was removed from the Ohio River. This rock is known as the Indian Head Rock
Dating back to the early 1800’s, this rock was seen sticking out of the Ohio River and used as a navigational mark for barges along the river. The names of citizens from the town of Portsmouth, Ohio are carved into the rock from the late nineteenth a early twentieth centuries. Some of the names were of well known families from Ohio. They would swim out to the rock, have their picture taken with it or simply carve their names into it.
With the advent of the Locks and Dams along the Ohio River, the rock eventually was submerged, but the legend lived on.
A gentleman from Ironton, Ohio located the rock after searching a very long time for it, and he and a crew of scuba divers recovered the rock and took it to the shore to be donated to Ohio for historical value.
After hearing the news about the rock being removed, Kentucky introduced legislation against the removal of the rock. They also want the diver who found it to be prosecuted for removing the rock. Kentucky owns the greatest part of the land the river runs on.
Even the Army Corp. of Engineers got involved as to how to move the rock without damaging it. Kentucky wants to have it returned to the river.
Billy Massie
Article Assessment
Reedy Bot and ShepBot are currently hard at work tagging all of the Ohio articles. We may need to have an assessment drive when the bots are finished. Think of it as a late spring cleaning. Please note your opinions on the project talkpage if you would be interested in helping!
Over 10,000 articles have been tagged with {{OH-Project}}
Article Achievements
New Featured and Good articles
Ohio was listed as a Good Article nominee; the result of the nomination was Not listed.
If you know of a Wikipedian who has contributed a lot of effort to Ohio articles feel free to award the new Ohio Barnstar of Merit by placing the following code on their user talkpage.
Add a picture to an article in the list of requested photographs in Ohio ( 355 ) (Most towns in Ohio are still on the list) or improve one of the articles with no images.
This is the third edition of the WikiProject Ohio newsletter. If you have any project announcements feel free to drop them by the NewsDesk. It's request that you watchlist our talk page; so you can chime in on current discussions. Have a great June!
The Ohio Portal
The maintainers of the Ohio Portal are looking to get it to featured status. They would like to ask all project members to help improve it any way they can. What needs to be done most is the supplying of selected articles and images.
Getting the Project Moving
WikiProject Ohio as an entity doesn't have as much action as other state projects. For this reason it has been proposed that the inactive WikiProject Ohio Townships be added as our taskforce. There is a !poll going on at WT:OH and your opinion is essential in the matter!
Stepshep has also proposed sending an invite to everyone in Category:Wikipedians in Ohio with an invite to join the project. If you are already a member you would not receive the notice of course. Once again, please note your opinion on the project talkpage.
The Central Avenue Historic District is a nationally recognized historic district located at 201 to 338 Central Avenue in Dayton, Ohio. It consists of late 19th and 20th Century Revival-style houses as well as late Victorian-style houses, which were all originally single-family residences.
Each month a new Ohio related stub is the selected article. If you have a new stub created feel free to nominate it at the NewsDesk.
Article Assessment
Reedy Bot and ShepBot are currently hard at work tagging all of the Ohio articles. We may need to have an assessment drive when the bots are finished. Think of it as a late spring cleaning. Please note your opinions on the project talkpage if you would be interested in helping!
'Over 15,000 articles have been tagged with {{OH-Project}} We have 5,000 articles that need to be assessed for class!
W. S. McIntosh Memorial Leadership Award was nominated at Afd.
The result was Delete
Homer E. Woodling and Robert F. Busbey were nominated at Afd.
The result was Keep
All Ohio High School Conferences were nominated at Afd.
The result was no consensus keep. There is an effort to improve these articles here.
Ohio Barnstar of Merit
If you know of a Wikipedian who has contributed a good deal of effort to Ohio articles feel free to award the new Ohio Barnstar of Merit by placing the following code on their user talkpage.
{{subst:The Ohio Barnstar of Merit|message}}
Article Importance Scheme
A new article importance scheme has been proposed at the assessment talk page. Please comment on the propsed system.
Add a picture to an article in the list of requested photographs in Ohio ( 355 ) (Most towns in Ohio are still on the list) or improve one of the articles with no images.
Coordinate with Ohio Portal to provide quality articles for use.
Place the {{WikiProject United States|class=|importance=|OH=Yes|OH-importance=}} banner into Ohio related articles and assess
This newsletter is delivered by bot to all project members of WikiProject Ohio. If you do not wish to receive this newsletter in the future or would like to receive it in a different format, please note this in the appropriate section at the NewsDesk. Thank you, §tepshep
The September 2011 issue of the WikiProject United States newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
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