This is an archive of past discussions with User:Attar-Aram syria. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
Hello, Attar-Aram syria, and Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{Help me}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by using four tildes (~~~~) or by clicking if shown; this will automatically produce your username and the date. Also, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field with your edits. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! Dlohcierekim 01:55, 10 January 2014 (UTC)
I don't have the reference you cite. Can you explain what you mean by "alter ego"? How is this different from the more understandable "closely associated"? As a native English speaker, to say something is an alter ego would it is a different name for the same thing. For example, Tony Stark is the alter ego of Iron Man.
Also, if Aleppo and Ebla were both destroyed, doesn't this conflict with the prior statement that Aleppo was continuously inhabited? Or are you saying that Aleppo survived the destruction, while Ebla did not?
Nomadic Whitt (talk) 07:06, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
Attar-Aram syria, you are invited to the Teahouse
Hi Attar-Aram syria! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from peers and experienced editors. I hope to see you there! Osarius (I'm a Teahouse host)
Hello, Attar-Aram syria/Archive 1. Your question has been answered at the Teahouse Q&A board. Feel free to reply there! Please note that all old questions are archived after 2-3 days of inactivity. Message added by Samwalton9 (talk) 12:40, 13 January 2014 (UTC). (You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{teahouse talkback}} template.
Syrian ethnicity
Hello Attar-Aram syria! Welcome to English Wikipedia and thank you for your contributions! It's nice to know there are people out there who care, and are informed, about ancient Syrian history and this complicated subject of ethnicity. You mentioned a number things in your message, and I will try to tackle all the points you made. With regards to Arab nationalism, I think this is a problematic truth on Arabic Wikipedia, on English Wikipedia we have Syriac nationalists who are the ones that are hijacking the Syrian and Iraqi people pages to suit their laughable pov, which argues that there is no Syrian ethnicity and this stems from Western articles that mention that Syria is 90% Arab (Again this based on language and not a serious historical study of ethnicity in Syria.) I wholeheartedly agree with the gist of your message and I commend you for consulting before rocking the boat. :)
I believe that you can expand the Syria people article by adding the two sections you are interested in adding. One sub-category could be "Arabs of Syria" and the other could be "Syrian ethnicity"; this is similar to other examples in English Wikipedia. For example take a look at this article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebanese_people), one sectioned is labelled "identity" and another section is devoted solely to "genetics". Check out the German people article, a whole section is devoted to "ethnicity" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_people).
I prefer the Syrian people article, because it is inclusive, it refers to all Syrian people no matter what their ethnicity is. I understand your argument that an article should exist solely on people who are from Syrian ethnicity, however the other people articles I have read on English Wikipedia are inclusive (such as the German and Italian people articles). If you create separate articles, then further down the line other editors will try to merge them into one article. Why not take things one step at a time? You could write the paragraphs under two different sections on the Syrian people page, and further down the line if the article gets too long then we could separate and create different articles.
Yes, you can send me anything and I will definitely proof-read it and come up with suggestions or comments. Please add those reliable references on genetics, because this will help defend your work against those editors who seek to control the discussion with their uninformed and biased viewpoints.George Al-Shami (talk) 20:03, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi Attar-Aram, thanks for your input, I appreciate it. Yes, of course, Syrian popes were not syriacs/assyrians. I agree with your message, if he reverts again, then I will simply change the title to the one you suggested; that's what I wanted to do earlier. With Google books, it's either a hit or a miss, because when I clicked on the link Google blanked the page that you probably were referring to. This is another example of the editor in question's insincerity, he could easily change the title to keep the papal section, but no, he removes the whole thing on a technicality! (just to remove it) Unbelievable! I've been meaning to ask you, do you have a bachelor's degree in ancient history, or did you acquire your knowledge by teaching yourself through books? George Al-Shami (talk) 03:18, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
Recent Edits
I would like to congratulate you on the number of positive NPOV edits you made on the Syrian people article. I like the fact that you are striving to keep the article as impartial as possible and I like the fact that you interspersing your edits with reliable sources. I also like the two sub-categories you created under the main category identity. Well done Mister, I presume (No offence, if I have the wrong gender). I will take you to task on just one thing you mentioned (I wish I had more time to go over all the edits. :) ); you mention "The ethnic designation "Syrian" is derived from Assyrian " do you mean -derived from the Assyrian/Syriac language- or from the term itself "Assyrian". If you are referring to the latter then I would like to mention that I read an article a long time ago that contradicts this assertion. When I have time, I will check the source that you placed at the bottom. However, I do know that ancient Syria and the Assyrian empire existed at the same time and that they did share a common border. There are a lot of of contradictory assertions with regards to the origins of the name "Syria", I don't know if we'll ever find out the origins of this name, I will look into this.George Al-Shami (talk) 07:42, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Could you please contribute to the discussion in talk:Syrian people before making mass edits? I don't really have time to check all the edits you made but what strikes me the most is the claim that Syrians share a common genetic heritage.--Kathovotalk09:27, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Hey There, keep fighting the good fight, don't get intimidated by these Syriac nationalists and their sock puppets. I have a hunch that Penguins53 is a sock puppet of one of the Syriac nationalist editors; don't know who. You can make a request to see if they are the same person, over here Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations. They will check to see if the ip addresses of the different accounts match. Another course of action, you may want to take if this constant trolling and vandalism continues unabated, is to request the article gets WP:PP semi-protected so that only verified editors can make edits. George Al-Shami (talk) 23:12, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
I don't even know what a sockpuppet is, so... Second of all, I don't know what a Syriac nationalist is (considering that Syriac is a language...) I am an Assyrian, and do not know what you mean. The edits on genetics are unnecessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Penguins53 (talk • contribs) 03:55, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Regarding the Syrian people page: then try condensing the genetic information to one or two paragraphs into one section. There doesn't have to be genetic information interspersed throughout the entire article. One section entitled "Genetics" would be fine. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Penguins53 (talk • contribs) 04:04, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Ebla you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Dudley Miles -- Dudley Miles (talk) 13:40, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
On 31 August 2014, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Ebla, which you recently created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that during the third kingdom of Ebla, Hadad and Ishtar became the city's most important deities? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Ebla. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, live views, daily totals), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.
I had a great time reading the article on Ebla to which you greatly contributed. Thanks for your work, I hope to read more of your articles ! Iry-Hor (talk) 08:52, 2 September 2014 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Mari, Syria you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of FunkMonk -- FunkMonk (talk) 20:21, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Yamhad you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Coemgenus -- Coemgenus (talk) 22:20, 4 January 2015 (UTC)
Hi. Maybe I mislooked, since at least now I see Lot as ref. 67. However, the footnote number does not link to the footnote: I have to scroll down to see it. Maybe it is a problem of the computer I am using: IE Enterprise 7. Kdammers (talk) 03:08, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Hello, I dont know the problem, it is confusing I guess, cause normally you just click on the reference number next to the sentence, and it take you to the source in the citations section. I hope you figure out whats wrong cause Im not familiar with this problem. Cheers--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 03:13, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Palmyra you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of FunkMonk -- FunkMonk (talk) 13:20, 21 March 2015 (UTC)
Hi Attar, re the so-called rojava article, obviously some users here are trying to depict this area of Syria as being Kurdish, and it seems this agenda requires hiding how the current demographic situation has developed. Don't give up, this is what they are after. I am not giving up either and you have my support. Cheers. Amr ibn Kulthoumعمرو بن كلثوم (talk)
Thanks User:عمرو بن كلثوم, I will never give up, I have many sources to shut them and I wont allow them to force their propaganda like they do in social media. I did say that I wont restore the deleted material, but I just added another short sourced sentence to summaries the deleted one and give the same meaning so that neutral readers will understand the atrocities committed when those people made part of our country theirs. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 23:50, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
archive
I reverted your manual archiving of Talk:Semitic people. I didn't just want to archive it, I also wanted to test the bot behaviour. If my settings are correct, the new archive should span 3 files and leave 4 sections on the talk page. There is currently no activity on that talk page, so no hurry. Thanks. —Telpardec TALK 13:36, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
Hey Attar, there's a group (Wikimedia Levant) being started to bring Wikipedia's Levantine editors together to hopefully increase our collaborative efforts in improving articles related to the Levant. It would be great if you could join. If you're interested, just enter your name into the Members section. FunkMonk pointed out your work on Syria's cultural heritage to me, and its outstanding. Thanks especially for Palmyra. I always wanted to bring that article up to snuff, but I kept putting it off. Improving these articles serves a great purpose toward increasing public awareness for these global treasures, considering that so many of Syria's historical sites are tragically endangered these days. Keep up the great work! --Al Ameer (talk) 23:57, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for your work defending the above from various "good intension" edits (which are lacking in quality). I have read the article thoroughly now and I'm surprised it hasn't been taken to WP:FAC. Is it something you have considered at any point? I think it has great potential. CassiantoTalk08:15, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Cassianto. Well, its something I want but I never have the trust in my grammar or style since Im not a native speaker of English, your words are encouraging though, thanks.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 08:24, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
You don't have to be a great speaker of English to have good grammar. Gerda Arendt and GermanJoe are just two people who spring to mind and both dispel that myth as their English writing is excellent and they are both German. At FAC, there are always patient people willing to help and I'm sure they will understand any language difficulties. The delegates, whom I know well, are very understanding and will allow you some extra manouvre in order to get this important article to FA. It's certainly worth a think about; if you do, my advice would be to get the article copy edited first or initiate a PR|peer review. CassiantoTalk08:41, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Well, to tell you the truth, all I needed was a push, and you gave me just that :) ... I will take it to Copy-Edit, since I was not lucky when I asked a peer review for Ebla. Now Ebla is copy edited and Im refreshing its sources to take it to FA. I will ask for Palmyra to be copy-edited as soon as the news stop mentioning it, because the article is attracting too many IPs.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 08:44, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
You're quite wise to wait for the press to die down as the traffic through the article may cause problems. I'd be happy to help with any English questions you may have in the meantime and will take part in any peer review you should initiate. CassiantoTalk11:34, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Cassianto ! I already asked for the copy-editing since it will take at least a month for it to be accepted. Since I know the state of my country's war, Im sure that the traffic and the news will slow down within a week. After the copy-editing, Im gonna ask for a peer review and pin you for it.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 11:38, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
No problem. I just hope and prey that in months to come we will be talking about a still untouched Palmyra, rather than one that has been desecrated by a load of disgusting, anti-Muslim vandals such as Islamic State! CassiantoTalk13:35, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Cassianto for your hopes about the city safety. I dont think Palmyra will continue to exist after those sub-humans took it. I will not think about this for now and hope that I dont hear the bad news.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 14:06, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Hi, though the FAC was archived, this doesn't say anything about the quality of the article, it may just mean that it wasn't visible enough. Thee are much fewer reviewers now than there used to be, so it can help "advertise" on relevant Wiki Project talk pages to notify potential reviewers. FunkMonk (talk) 00:37, 24 August 2015 (UTC)
I saw your work on Tell Brak and other Syrian sites; great work, keep it up! I saw that Brak lacks an overview image of the entire tell. I have one in my archive and will see that I get it to Commons some time these days. Best, --Zoeperkoe (talk) 12:08, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
First i am not an Aramean or Assyrian or something like that, but a Syrian arab. yes it is the same language, but it is clearer to say it is an aramaic dialect. you can not deny it is an Aramean state they called themself Arameans. yes it was a mix of persian, hellenistc, aramean, arab culture. you are now denying Isis Aramean roots
Salaam w aleikom
Maybe i was fault but why are you denying that we Arab Syrians are acctualy a mix from Arameans and Arabs actually we Syrian arabs must be proud of our roots we life in the land of the arameans and we have their roots even i have learned my language and when we syrians had regocnized our roots the problems their were stopped — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caliph Ibrahim (talk • contribs) 13:11, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
Antiochian Greeks article
Hi Attar-Aram syria, I was surprised by that claim in the lead paragraph, because I had never heard or read of such a thing before. I'm trying to be as constructive as possible when editing on Wikipedia and I guess I was waiting for the editor who made this claim to provide some reliable sources. I think your explanation on the talk page was well presented and it's good that you pointed out the Greeks in Syria article. Anyways, your input would be appreciated on a possible new montage for this article Arabs.George Al-Shami (talk) 07:08, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
Sure thing! I want to ask you, according to your knowledge, before the arrival of the Turks to Anatolia around 1200 AD, was there a natural border between Greece and Syria? (would ancient Armenia have shared a natural border between Greece and Syria?). I don't agree that the Greek Orthodox in Syria are ethnic Greeks, but is the editor in question referring to a time, about 2 thousand years ago, when there was a natural border between the two and possible mixing between the ethnic groups? Although the DNA studies in this region are still in their infancy, to your knowledge is there any mention of Greek ancestry within the majority of Northern Syrians? One thing I've noticed in the past is that there are a lot of gaps in historical scholarship and modern historiography, in that, just because a topic is not written about by historians and scholars doesn't mean it didn't exist. An example of such a topic is Syrian nationalism; the orientalists and Western scholars of the Arab world in the 20th century totally ignore this topic as if it didn't exist; but I knew it existed because of the stubborn historical facts, such as the many institutions that were founded by Syrians starting in the 1850s that employed the national designation "Syrian". And a lot of these Syrians who immigrated to the US before 1920 founded organizations that used the aforementioned designation. Even after the borders of modern Syrian were drawn up, some "Lebanese" still called themselves Syrian, case in point, the founder of the Syrian World magazine, here's an article I started on Wikipedia a couple of years ago: The Syrian World. Here's a book that might interest you The Making of Arab Americans: From Syrian Nationalism to U.S. Citizenship.George Al-Shami (talk) 21:11, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
I tried to correct (some of your most flagrant/abusive) edits, based of totally unfounded assertions and clear penchant for Soviet-style propaganda in lieu of historical enquiry ... in vain!
As I'm quite busy in the real world, I shall let you keep on believing that “costume” means “tradition” and that the Washington Address is where the first US president lived! ;)
Do not talk to me on my talk page like this. I have respected you and you didn't respect me back. You have a lack of good manners and you have no right talking to me like this. You should have used the talk page in a respective way and offered your good citations instead of this low level.
1) You’re the one who actually started to make insidious comments on my talk page in the first place.
2) the slightly sarcastic tone of some of my comments are meant essentially to open your eyes, not to “show disrespect” to a self-proclaimed censor (sorry- but that’s the impression you give). I sincerely believe/hope you’ll changes your views one day. Until then, I wish you a good continuation … B.Andersohn (talk) 14:17, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
When I reverted you the first time I asked you to use the talk page to which you refused. I came to your talk page to tell that you need to use the article talk page and I was not disrespectful. Again you came with your opinions on me. Please do not focus on my personality.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 14:21, 14 July 2015 (UTC)
I have just completed the translation of Palmyra (actually the 25-June version) to the Portuguese Wikipedia and I must congratulate you for the amazing work. Apart, perhaps (I am not sure, I have to reread the text in a few weeks past the translation) some lack of details on the excavations and the ruins/buildings and urbanism, it looks like having FA quality, maybe even better than some other FA. In fact, I have just asked for second opinions on proposing the Portuguese article to FA.
I see that you are still working on it, which "worries" me a bit, because it means more work for me also, to update the translation. ;)
Best regards. pt:Stegoptalk 00:10, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
Hi Attar,
Thank you for your feedback. You deserve my compliments that, more than just a simple gesture of kindness, express my admiration for a comprehensive work well done, coming from someone who knows too well how hard it is.
About the "missing" things or, more precicely, the things that look less well covered, I was talking abou the version of 25-June because I didn't read the new version yet. Please send me a note when you think that you are about finishing the text, so I can make my critics. Nevertheless, by looking quickly, I get the feeling that things didn't change much since June on this field. I'll try to explain: every aspect of the site and its history seem very well covered, except for the excavations (relevant findings and conclusions, etc.) and perhaps more important, the description (more detailed and "structured") of the buildings, their location relative to each other, dimensions, etc., something like "temple A is 200 meters South of building B, street X ran West to East, from building B to building C, etc.", so the reader can have an idea of the map/strutcure of the site and city by reading it. Maybe it is possible to do that, at least partly, by careful reading the text that exists now, but that information is kind of disperse. Note that I am not telling that it is a real flaw; however, after having read all the previous sections, that cover all other aspects so comprehensively, I would expect a bit more detail on that part (the "physical" aspects of the town, what exists now of it and maybe what existed or supposedly existed before.
Probably there are better examples to explain what I mean, but take a look of Volubilis (which I also translated to PT.WP, adding or improving some details here and there, so I know it well); it is a less impressive article than "your Palmyra", but the sections "City layout and infrastructure" and "Notable buildings" account for half of the article. I am not suggesting that you do the same, far from it; even if it was really interesting doing it, it would render the article toooooo big. Others examples chosen randomly from memory, if you understand French are fr:Aptera (Grèce), fr:Bulla Regia, fr:Dougga and fr:Site archéologique de Carthage.
Keep up the good work!
PS: Just a minor detail and suggestion: replace books.google.nl by books.google.en on the references and bibliography, so the same pages appear in English instead of Dutch. --pt:Stegoptalk 17:49, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
It looks great to me. You managed to be concise while explaining what I felt was missing. It also looks well written, but since I am not a native English speaker nor have advanced studies in English, I am not the right person to assure you that everything is perfect. Great job indeed! I will have to arrange courage to redo the translation because I really want to make it FA in PT Wikipedia also. :-) Cheers. --pt:Stegoptalk 00:32, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Tell Brak you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of BenLinus1214 -- BenLinus1214 (talk) 03:20, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
I am happy to inform you that your article (yes, after all 99% of the text was written by you) has just been elected "featured article" in the Portuguese Wikipedia. pt:Palmira is scheduled to be on the main page of pt.wikipedia 19th February 2016.
Again, thank you very much and keep up the excelent work.
Regards. --pt:Stegoptalk 01:58, 4 October 2015 (UTC)
Fake storys. At this Time no circassian noble princess went in the ottoman harem nore any native muslima. This was the reason for the systam of christian slave girl same as Yeniceri who had also christian background.
I am descendant of Cemile sultan and this storys of my Ancestress Safiye, Handan are wrong.
Hi Attar, I'm trying to eliminate as many red links as I can from the Palmyra page. I recently started articles on Abu Muhammad al-Sufyani and Abu al-Ward and a stub on Yusuf ibn Firuz. I found some info on Muhanna ibn Isa and started a draft page on him. If you have anything to add to the draft page please do, and then we could move it to mainspace. This book by Amalia Levanoni appears to be a good source about the Fadl dynasty in general by the way. --Al Ameer (talk) 20:54, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
Ok, I moved it to Muhanna ibn Isa. Please make corrections or clarifications if you see any errors. The article is bigger than I thought it would become, so I'll probably nominate it for DYK. Cheers --Al Ameer (talk) 22:53, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
Yeah Al Ameer, it does look good ! I didnt start an article on him cause I didnt thought we have enough info but I was mistaken. I have no corrections for now. Hope it will pass the DYK. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 22:58, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
Muhanna ibn Isa has been nominated for Did You Know
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Odaenathus you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of Cerebellum -- Cerebellum (talk) 22:20, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
Hey, just a note to mark edits as minor when they are small, typographical, and uncontroversial, such as changing the formatting of a comment (otherwise they clog up watchlists). Thanks for your edits! czar13:56, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
hello Mr Attar-Aram syria, I from your neighbor country, from Iraq, I like your articles that made it good here, because I also interested in ancient history of middle east, I want to ask you if you have any contributes in arabic wiki? There are articles to make better --FPP (talk) 20:45, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
For your outstanding efforts and determination toward making Palmyra the Featured Article it is today. I applaud you my friend and am honored to be among your Wikipedian peers. Alf mabruk, and please, keep up the great work. Cheers! Al Ameer (talk) 00:12, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
Many thanks User:Al Ameer son and User:FunkMonk for those kind words. They really mean something to me and Im very happy that I got your support. You are both very kind. I have many articles to rewrite but between work and college my time is limited for now so I hope to get on with those articles in the coming three months or so. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 12:48, 25 January 2016 (UTC)
Palmyrene kingdom/empire
Why should we distinguish between these two things? The Palmyrene empire was just the Palmyrene kingdom after its expansion into Egypt. It did not renounce its nominal Roman allegiance in 270. There should be one article on the Palmyrene state during the whole period from c.260 to 273. That would be less confusing and more helpful to the average reader with limited knowledge of the period. Do you disagree? Srnec (talk) 18:38, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
The empire is used to indicate the rebellion of Zenobia. This rebellion started the moment that Zenobia sent her armies to Bosra in beginning of 270. The kingdom of Odaenathus isnt an empire and having read every source I could find when I wrote the articles of Palmyra, Odaenathus and Palmyrene Empire, I didnt find any scholar who calls the kingdom of Odaenathus or the reign of Zenobia before the conquests an empire.
So the empire period isnt just the expansion of the kingdom but the beginning of hostilities between Palmyra and Rome and thats why we have a distinction.
As for the rulers, they ruled the same city. You can make a list in the Palmyrene empire article but it will be a short list as it will only contain Zenobia, her son and septimius antiochus.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:11, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
"The empire is used to indicate the rebellion of Zenobia". That's what I expected and that's the problem. There isn't a state here so much as a series of military campaigns. And I think it's confusing, because the Palmyrene state—the thing that was expanded into an ephemeral empire in 270–71—has no article of its own. Since the current article has a background section anyway, why not just turn it into an article on the Palmyrene state from beginning under Odaenathus to end under Zenobia? The title isn't an issue: it can be changed, and it's not like "Palmyrene empire" is contemporary. The original version of the article before you expanded it did not begin in 270. The Oxford Companion to Classical Civilization, Oxford Dictionary of the Classical World and The Oxford Classical Dictionary all use the term "Palmyrene ‘empire’," always in lower case and always in quotation marks, to refer to the state under Odaenathus and his successors. Srnec (talk) 23:20, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
Well, you asked why the distinction and its the Palmyrene shift from vassals to enemies that mark the transition into an empire. Odaenathus did control huge swathes of lands but only as a supreme military leader while his royal authority was confined (although not in practice) to Palmyra. Zenobia on the other hands ruled outright as the monarch of all the lands she conquered and thats why her state is an empire (very short lived ofcourse).
The original version (full of mistakes) only had the number 260 instead 270 as the beginning year. If the article is going to cover the entire period from the rise of Odaenathus then it should be expanded hugely. I can do it this week maybe. Until then, the section "Palmyrene kingdom" in the main article of Palmyra is similar to an independent article dedicated to the state established in 260--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 23:57, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
Hey Attar, thought you might find this source useful: -hub.cc/stable/613705. You might have it already. It details the origins and rule of the Al Fadl dynasty. Apparent Isa ibn Muhanna was amir al-'arab as early as 1260. He succeeded his father Muhanna who succeeded his father Mani' who in turn succeeded his father Haditha, the grandson of the dynasty's founder Fadl ibn Rabi'ah, who as an amir of some sort by 1107. They were descendants of the Banu Tayy branch of Mufarrij ibn Daghfal ibn al-Jarrah. I'm working on an article about them (see Al Fadl draft) and I'll come back to you for help on this in the coming days. Cheers --Al Ameer (talk) 21:31, 6 May 2016 (UTC)
Just moved Isa ibn Muhanna to mainspace. Thinking to nominate it for DYK so please add anything that's missing. I've also expanded the Al Fadl draft, hopefully will be ready for mainspace by the end of the week. --Al Ameer (talk) 18:13, 11 May 2016 (UTC)
Do not post any more material about the case I closed, either at ANI, my Talk page, or anywhere else on Wikipedia. You are violating a very strict policy, and I will be forced to block you if you persist. This is not open to discussion. If you look at the history of your last edits at ANI and those on my Talk page, you should be able to figure it out. That's the most I am able to tell you.--Bbb23 (talk) 22:48, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
User:Bbb23, in your page, you declare yourself nice and want people to be nice. So, can you be nice to me and explain what kind of policy am I violating and why cant my evidence that a blocked IP is editing with an account isnt being taken into consideration ?
I'm seeking some guidance on what I am permitted to tell you. Please be patient. I'll report back one way or the other. Thanks.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:00, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
You violated WP:OUTING by posting a link to an external website in connection with a user. If you wish to pursue your report of sock puppetry, you can do that at WP:SPI but no more outing. I did you a favor by checking the accounts at ANI, but SPI is the normal place to allege sock puppetry, particularly when it's complicated and involves long-standing editors. If you have any questions, let me know.--Bbb23 (talk) 23:44, 23 September 2016 (UTC)
I was surprised by the anger I was handled with User:Bbb23. Now at least I understand the reason. I have never heard of Outing to be honest and I saw many cases before where a reddit account was attached as those accounts aren't personal.
Since I cant use the reddit account then I have no evidence anymore. This guy survived even though he is a blocked user
Attar-Aram syria, that wasn't anger, but rather insistence. Yes, please do not link such things anymore. Thank you, Drmies (talk) 01:37, 24 September 2016 (UTC)
Sorry, I wasn't aware
That putting links to other website was illegal. Btw, are there any ways I could talk with you in private ?
Hey, User:GoulGoul1. Never mind. As for talking privately, you can reach me by E-mail. If you dont know how to use the feature, open Wikipedia from a computer. To the left, beneath the Wikipedia logo, you will find many fields; the first is "Interaction" and under it "tools". In toold, you will find the option : E-mail this user.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 19:45, 18 October 2016 (UTC)
Hatay
Hi there, I'm not sure what you mean by "okay, two can play this", we should work together to improve the article. Best, O.celebi (talk) 10:05, 17 October 2016 (UTC)
Please do not delete highly relevant and well sourced content (here: war crimes by FSA groups) from articles on the basis of political activist definitions you invent. I respect your political opinions whatever they are, but Wikipedia is not the place to promote them. -- 91.61.68.107 (talk) 14:42, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
Please stop making me getting you blocked like I did for the last year. This incident didn't happen in your imaginary rojava and the YPG militias never controlled those areas. Stop inventing states and stop giving the claims of militias legitimacy on wikipedia cause Wikipedia is definitely not the place for your dreams.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 18:07, 22 October 2016 (UTC)
Even though quite some time has passed ever since it reached FA status, I just wanted to tell; great job there! I just had a full read, and I can definetely attest to it that its a really neat one! :-) Btw, is there any history-related matter/figure/etc. especially pertaining to Syria which you'd really like to see getting created? If yes, please don't hesitate to let me know. I'll be glad to help you out. - LouisAragon (talk) 02:14, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for your kind words. I have many projects in mind but so little time sadly. I will ask your help whenever I start a new project. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 13:16, 23 October 2016 (UTC)
Just want to chime in here, I'm still saddened by reading our comments during the GA review[1], where we predicted the destruction that was to come... So great you kept Palmyra alive here, in a sense... There is a lot more to be written about, so I'd advise you to not become too entangled in discussions about controversial topics; they take away too much writing energy, and there is always a risk of getting blocked for no good reason. I've tried it myself many times in my early days here, so trust me... You have greater missions to accomlish! FunkMonk (talk) 12:43, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
Hey User:FunkMonk, long time. So I guess you are familiar with my new headache about Rojava and the persistent activists. Im trying to stay away, its hard. But in the last week, I realised its time to tone down. Im starting a new article here, hope you will review it when its GA nominated. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 12:50, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
Hehe, I used to discuss on for example Palestine/Israel related articles, and you can imagine what a minefield that was... After a while, I just realised it was a waste of time, there will always be a horde of edit-warriors to argue with, and new hordes to replace them later and undo every consensus reached before, so better to use one's energy where it will be lasting... Some editors are only here to edit-war, and the few of us who actually write articles have little to gain from discussing forever with such one-trick accounts... Other than ending up blocked or too exhausted to write... And yep, I'm looking forward to reviewing more of your articles! FunkMonk (talk) 12:59, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
I can upload it, the description on Flickr doesn't state a name, but maybe you have a source that states it's supposed to be him? FunkMonk (talk) 21:13, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
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Hi AAS. I remember that you had strong concerns regarding the editorial conduct of user "Ferakp". I actually just had a proper look (found some time), and its actually kinda stunning me how this "user" apparantly has managed to jump the gun every single time, even though he has been violating WP policies as if its breakfast, literally every single time. Some things that I noticed; 1) he labels virtually every edit in his edit summaries as "Fix", even if its everything BUT a fix, objectively speaking. 2) he removes every warning on his talk page, with again, weasel-wordish edit summaries.[3] 3) he uses non-WP:RS sources on a structural basis, to apparantly push that what he thinks that needs to be in the article.[4][5] And thats just the tip of the iceberg, as I'm sure you know as well. To put it short; he should be outrighly reported to ANI the next time in my opinion, as this blatantly disruptive editing is really undermining this project for a long period of time, and no talk page discussion nor warning seems, unfortunately, to have had any effect. Your thoughts? - LouisAragon (talk) 01:39, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
Hey LouisAragon. Ahhhhhh you just reminded me of a headache. To add more, any source not in the benefit of the said user agendas is always "unreliable". He will jump to delete anything he doesnt like and say: unreliable. Ofcourse he is the only criteria. I've had enough dealing with Kurdish nationalists and their supporters. They consumed my time which I was planning on using for meaningful articles. Sad thing is, the ANI do nothing and nothing at all. I alread made several cases. I will give you the links and you can read carefull how strong the evidences were, yet nothing happened. This will take you to the biggest case where summaries of all other cases were listed. I dont think Ferakp is 2A1ZA anymore, but there is definitely meat puppeting going on.
I have saw your edits, you are one of the few content editors here, so I would advice you not to waste your energy on those people. Ferakp is here to whitewash his party. And I came to the point of seeing it hopeless to go to ANI. Now, I just revert his, and his friends, most outrageous edits and try not to see their names on my watch list. I do advise you to go the the editors of Syrian Turkmen. They are suffering from him and will most definitely have something to say.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 01:51, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
There are two typos which are quite noticeable: "Roman Rmpire" should read "Roman Empire". I should be finished copyediting Zenobia in a few days. All the best, Miniapolis18:34, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
Hello Attar-Aram syria, we first interacted back in September on the List of Syrian monarchs page you created. I'm sorry it has taken me so long to follow up on the details. I had a busy few months and fell off Wikipedia somewhat. Now that I have more time again, I've enjoyed working on the Syrian monarchs page and would like to get it closer to a good quality page, a goal you mentioned you were interested in pursuing as well. Maybe you would have some time at some point to go to that talk page and leave some feedback on where to take it further? There are so many different list formats for monarchs to refer to, I don't want to arbitrarily make stylistic choices and run with them ad hoc. And you seem more intimately familiar with the monarch list norms than I could ever hope to be. Thanks kindly. Yvarta (talk) 18:18, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
The toponym A-ra-mu appears in an inscription at the East Semitic speaking kingdom of Ebla listing geographical names, and the term Armi, occurs frequently in the Ebla tablets (c. 2300 BC). Oldest mentioning of Tadmur could be in Hurrian language, which was spoken by the Hurrians, a people who entered northern Mesopotamia around 2300 BC.
Therefore, why did you eradicate the possibility that Tadmur might be derived from Aramaic ?!
I would like to add this section, if you agree with me:
There is a Syriac etymology for Tadmor, referring to dmr "to wonder", and Tedmurtā (Aramaic: ܬܕܡܘܪܬܐ) "Miracle"; thus Tadmūra means "object of wonder", most recently affirmed by Ruth Altheim-Stiehl and Franz Altheim (1973), but rejected by Jean Starcky (1960) and Michał Gawlikowski (1974).cite book |last1=L. Arbeitman |first1=Yoël |title=A Linguistic Happening in Memory of Ben Schwartz: Studies in Anatolian, Italic, and Other Indo-European Languages |publisher=Peeters Publishers |date=1988|page=248 |url=|isbn=9068311433
LeoHsn (talk) 03:46, 22 January 2017 (UTC)
Hello, Palmyra is a featured article so I make sure that only the best sources are used and the source used for Tedmurta was not up to scale, which cant be said about the newer academic source you provided. So all is fine, though I noticed that your sentence is very close to the words of the source so I edited it to keep the copy right editors away from deleting the whole thing. Now, my agreeing is not something to be sued, everyone has the right to edit as long as he stick to reliable sources which is what you did my friend. the arabic names should be translated, you are right, but writing them in arabic is generally discouraged as is writing any foreign name in its original language unless its on the title of the article in the lede.
Now, for the Arameans, we have a lot of similar cases; Kurda is one: it is an amorite kingdom and not related to Kurds. We dont know if A-ra-mu is connected to Arameans and Armi is a name of a city not a people. An Aramean etymology is still hard even if the Arameans were present in 2000 BC as the names from Palmyra back then are all Amorite. As for the Hurrian mentioning, is it from 2300 BC ?? if so, then a good source would be amazing as it would benefit the article to mention this.
Now, I need to welcome you abroad the project if you are a new editor, cause there is a huge lack of editors in the field of ancient near east history who are knowledgeable and use academic sources. Thanks for you edits LeoHsn.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 14:49, 28 January 2017 (UTC)
Hi, I was thinking of nominating either Palmyra or Zenobia as today's featured article[27], so they can be shown on the main-page. Would help spread awareness of these subjects. What do you think about this? Any preference for date or article? FunkMonk (talk) 20:43, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
Hi my friend, Its really up to you. I would lean toward Zenobia cause she have a mythical image in people's minds and the article clarify thouse myths. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 20:46, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
well, the day of evacuation (when france left syria) is on 17 april but i dont think it can be accepted this fast. Thats the only important celebration in syria as far as I know.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 21:21, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
Yeah, I can see anther article is schedules for that date[28], so I'll just list it under non-specific dates. Maybe we can save Palmyra for April 17 next year... FunkMonk (talk) 21:22, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
Of course! I don't think I've mentioned it before, but my paternal family is Lebanese, so I have a personal interest in Levantine history. So I'm happy to see someone is working on these important articles. FunkMonk (talk) 21:32, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for quality articles on the rich history and culture of Syria, such as Ebla, Palmyra and Zenobia, providing "a clear picture of the historic queen", giving the romantic accounts their share", - you are an awesome Wikipedian!
Thank you for today's Qatna, "an ancient city in modern Syria ... which, for a period of 400 years, was in control of half of Syria. The city's palace and royal grave presented us with magnificent artifacts that shed light on the extensive human contact in 1600 BC as they included pieces made with materials imported from as far as modern Sweden."! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 13:13, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
Thank you for today's "Cleopatra, but not the most famous one. Actually, her story is as interesting. Cleopatra Selene I married her two brothers, then married her cousins (two of them,.... who were also brothers). She then married her step-son and gave birth to two children, one of them became king. This is a summary of the story of Cleopatra Selene, queen consort of Egypt and Syria then regent and queen regnant of Syria. She started as a winning card in the hands of her mother and became an important political player herself. The article was reviewed by our great editor Constantine and took two months to write because most of the sources (which are scarce to say the least) were not available online which meant that I had to tour the country to find the sources at different libraries. Hope this will be an enjoyable read into the mysterious life of the queen."! - Yes, enjoyable! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:34, 18 January 2018 (UTC)
Hi Attar-Aram, I haven't been active on WP lately, but saw from my watchlist that Qatna is now FA. Just wanted to thank you for the great work you're doing on this and other archaeological sites and Syria-related stuff! Best, --Zoeperkoe (talk) 07:17, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
Your work means a lot more ;) By the way, I've been doing some minor work on archaeological sites in Wikidata, to enter excavation seasons and directors for different sites. See, for example, Sweyhat. If you have this information ready for the archaeological sites on which you've been working (preferably per year, instead of a general "excavations were carried out between 1965 and 2009"), I'd be happy to enter that into WD. Hopefully, someone will eventually use that data to model the impact of conflicts on archaeological/cultural activity in Syria and elsewhere in the NE :) Best, --Zoeperkoe (talk) 10:47, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
Awarded in appreciation of your thoroughly researched and carefully executed contributions, which set a lofty standard of content creation for your fellow Wikipedians. Eperoton (talk) 19:12, 12 August 2017 (UTC)
Vandalism or unsourced?
Hello, please help me by analyzing my edits here. I need an opinion on who is wrong before I report this for 3RR or similar. He will probably cry foul over why I am dragging you into this article's matter but I guess it is allowed. Thanks. Swingoswingo (talk) 08:30, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
Hey Swingoswingo, he have no sources and when he does, its a generic website called sunnah or something which cant be considered neutral or reliable. You are not vandalizing, and he do the same in other articles where he actually delete sources, high quality, cause they have dead links or, according to him, dont contain the information.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 08:37, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
You removed a source "The Sealed Nectar". It's not an unreliable source nor is it a generic website. You going to the recent user I'm having an issue with indicates you're trying to make this personal. Swingswingo does do vandalism. Eperoton , Al-Andalusi and other users have had issues with him in the past. Furthermore you have a history of adding unwarranted tags like "better sources need", "further clarification needed" in usually inactive pages so that in some time, you remove claims you don't like. Also you do have an agenda based on your comments in talk pages. Also you abuse the removal of sources and claims when pages aren't provided. Heck, you accused me of "Taqqiya" in the talk section of your first revert in the article you're talking about.CaliphoShah (talk) 08:57, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
Hi, I recently returned from Lebanon, where we were approached by some suspect smugglers who had various scraps they had either taken from Syria or Lebanon. We declined to buy any of their stuff (they also claimed they had a bust of Zenobia, which seems dubious), but I took some photos of their smaller things, and was thinking they might be useful as illustrations for Wikipedia somehow. The problem is, apart from some Muawiyah I coins, I don't really know what they are (though most of it seems to be Byzantine). Here is a photo of all the things, I also have close-ups some of them (and their opposite sides):[29]FunkMonk (talk) 01:21, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
Hey FunkMonk. Hope you enjoyed, Lebanon is so pretty this time of the year (where temperature stops being a tool of torture). I have looked at those pictures. They do look like an important addition but the problem is, the possibility that they are forgeries is higher than the possibility of them being authentic. People might be shocked but the Syrian state emptied the majority of the museums and took the artifacts to the Central Bank in Damascus to be kept in its underground lockers. Making new artifacts has became an important trade sadly. On a different note, Im thinking about withdrawing Cleopatra-Selene´s nomination for obvious reasons. I wish that more experienced editors will look at it cause now, it has turned into a matter of personal view about what looks good and what not.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 01:28, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
I was thinking along similar lines with forgeries, though I think those Muawiyah I coins wouldn't be worth enough to make forgeries of, they seem to be extremely common (though it should be noted the smugglers were supposedly "shabiha"). Anyhow, I think you can disregard those drive-by edits, the editor isn't a reviewer, and hasn't even brought the issues up on the talk-page (it seems), but the onus is on him to do so, if he wants to make drastic changes. I think the FAC is going fine, you'll get more responses, it just always takes a while... Heck, it's even going better than my current one... FunkMonk (talk) 01:36, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
Hahahaha. I would review it but to be honest, I went to many of your articles and didnt know what remarks I could give since it all looked perfect. Im not a reviewer thats for sure.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 01:38, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
Hehe, thanks, just do what I always do; expand and GA nominate other articles while you wait for comments to your current FAC... The wait is always so long that it's better to forget it until you get comments, than to eagerly wait for weeks and weeks for nothing... FunkMonk (talk) 01:43, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
Castle in Syria?
Hi Attar-Aram, I sort of try to maintain the category images of Syrian castles on Commons, and I can't properly locate this one. The Arabian WP seems to have an article on it here. What would you suggest as proper English name for the castle? Best, --Zoeperkoe (talk) 11:17, 1 November 2017 (UTC)
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Hello, Attar-Aram syria. Voting in the 2017 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 10 December. All users who registered an account before Saturday, 28 October 2017, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Wednesday, 1 November 2017 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
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See today's edits by DePiep. I think "c. 2000–500 BC" would be an improvement, since we're trying to be concise at TFA. The other edits ... maybe not. The page will be protected from editing in 35 minutes, so feel free to tell me (on this page) what changes you'd like, if any. - Dank (push to talk) 23:25, 27 December 2017 (UTC)
Hey User:Dank. Sorry, I was away. I looked at the page u linked. It was a good thing that u reverted and put the vague dates back because we have no certain dates. I noticed that it was written that the city was destroyed by the Hittites in 1400 BC which is wrong and its good you put back the late 13th century date back. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 21:55, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
may i have a word with you online? like on a social media app (insta, twitter,tele) etc.
i don't know how to chat or be able to discuss this long issue with you on Wikipedia, as i am new to it and know nothing about it :(. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arabos (talk • contribs) 22:46, 27 March 2018 (UTC)
Hello, I only have a facebook and it is a personal one. I prefer to keep my identity anonymous as you could get a lot of inconvenience if a certain editor got into a conflict with you here. Plus, it is against the rules of Wikipedia to discuss edits to articles outside Wikipedia. It would be better that discussions related to articles to be made at the article's talk page. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 08:33, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
Zenobia
I just provided you a source for Zenobia's titles. it's really just conventional name and is correct. Empress of the Palmyrene Empire is not a incorrect title. So why is the page of the state called the Palmyrene Empire and she was a Empress of it. Your reporting of me makes no sense. Since I provided a source right next to her title that I modified a couple of times..... The title Empress also doesn't make sense. Since what was she an Empress of then? The Empress of nothing? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.79.97.6 (talk) 02:12, 11 April 2018 (UTC)
Please read this notification carefully, it contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.
General sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimise disruption in controversial topic areas. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to these topics that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behaviour, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. An editor can only be sanctioned after he or she has been made aware that general sanctions are in effect. This notification is meant to inform you that sanctions are authorised in these topic areas, which you have been editing. It is only effective if it is logged here. Before continuing to edit pages in these topic areas, please familiarise yourself with the general sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.
A belated token of appreciation for your excellent work on Palmyra, Zenobia, Antiochus X Eusebes and other articles about the ancient Near East. Your articles are always interesting, well-written and impeccably researched. Keep it up, Wikipedia needs contributors of your calibre! Constantine ✍ 12:11, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
This made me blush 😊. Thank you very much for your nice words. As for the photo, I only have it as a jpeg sadly. I dont know how to make an svg or png file actually. My skills are very minimum to be honest. I hope though that another editor can edit the photo and transform it to the prefered form (and mayve teach me how he do it). Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 14:00, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
I can probably re-create it, but that would be "stealing" your work in a way. What program did you use to create the image in the first place? It should be able to export multiple formats. Constantine ✍ 15:08, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
Not at all. Since you will upload a new version. Would be better if you can do it and replace my jpeg with your png or svg. I used paint and photoshop 5.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:13, 11 June 2018 (UTC)
Open the file in Inkscape and play around with it, it isn't really anything. You can use it to create new maps as well. Constantine ✍ 08:24, 25 June 2018 (UTC)
Use of sfn
Hello Attar! I had recently rewrote the article Julia Maesa and decided to cite my sources using the sfn template. Whatsoever I'm not sure if I properly used it, and since most of your articles' sources are cited using the sfn template and you're certainly more experienced with editing than I am I thought if you could give me some advice and if you have the time, a small guide on how to use it. Sorry if I'm wasting your time. Cheers. (Please reply on my talk page :) ) Jadd Haidar (talk) 12:36, 22 June 2018 (UTC)
I noticed that you seem interested in the Seleucid dynasty, therefore, I recommend that you start an English article for this [30]. Kind Regards. 163.131.152.156 (talk) 06:47, 8 July 2018 (UTC)
I see that you added it, so its good now. I dont think I will ever add such templates in my articles. Those projects are dead, and no one care for them. Plus, its not a requirment.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 15:28, 13 July 2018 (UTC)
Mail
Hello, Attar-Aram syria. Please check your email; you've got mail! It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
Hey LouisAragon. I noticed this indeed. Problem, Wiki admins wont care much. This will lead to edit wars and blocks but the coordinated accounts will keep on showing. Ive been there before, and I couldnt get any help. If you can find evidence, then we can send a private email with the evidence to one of the admins. This will have a bigger chance of success. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:13, 5 August 2018 (UTC)
Hi, I know you are currently away from your PC, but I was wondering if you would be interested in trying out FAC reviewing? I saw Tetricus I was just nominated, and due to the indirect connection to Zenobia ("While Aurelian was concentrated on his attempts to defeat the breakaway Palmyrene Empire under Empress Zenobia"), I thought it might be up your alley. FAC always needs more reviewers! FunkMonk (talk) 10:52, 14 August 2018 (UTC)
Hey, wanted to add a small note off the main conversation. I read enough of the discussion between the two of you to get that, while you were both lobbing insults, Nacirian's were more egregious. The edit war I was involved in was because I thought a group of meat-puppeting SPAs were trying to push a major POV change that I felt to be propagandistic and untrue. And I also said regrettable things that weren't entirely being civil. Honestly I don't know if Nacirian is so new that they haven't had time to learn community standards, or a sock puppet trolling. But the thing is that you are an experienced editor who isn't an SPA, and in the last two weeks your argument with one other user has taken up the whole talk page and I'm sure you know that's a problem.
So what I'm politely suggesting is that the article will be there when the ANI is over. I'd strongly recommend you let other editors look after reversions and edits for a few days until it's resolved. There are other editors, but in the last few weeks they've all gone surprisingly quiet, including at least one who I know doesn't often do that. So you've got to ANI. Probably a bit late TBH considering how long you've been arguing in talk. Now would be a good time to take a step back from the edits and trust that the community is watching that page. Simonm223 (talk) 03:31, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Hey Simonm223. I was engaged in edit wars also. a page called Rojava. In the end I decided to remove it from my watchlist and let whoever wants to introduce his POV to just do it. So I know how you felt. As for this page, I have no problem to step down, but other editors are not stepping in. Nacirian edit which was reverted in 18 Aug was just too much. The section, Genetics, was talking about Lebanese and Arabs of the gulf area and not about Syrians. So the article went completely out of its scope. Low quality sources were used, and it became a total mess. I will not edit the article for the time being, and wait the result of ANI and hope other editors will step in.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 03:37, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. Just hang back until after the ANI. Currently engaging in an edit war won't help your cause. Appreciate it. Simonm223 (talk) 11:44, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Yes. It's a severe edit war. You two have been arguing on talk for a month with literally no third-party feedback and then started reverting each other, and while you didn't hit the WP:3RR brightline, as I mentioned before that is not the only indicator of an edit war. Between the reversion weekend and the month of talk-page sparring, that's a serious edit war. I don't need to read every one of the hundreds of comments back and forth between the two of you to realize that. Simonm223 (talk) 16:36, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
As for the Asia Argento situation, you'll note that after the second revert, which cited a specific wikipedia standard - WP:BRD I took it to talk, opened a thread, stated my piece concisely and then let other people talk. Simonm223 (talk) 16:36, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Yes, Simonm223, you certainly have to read if you are going to judge. If not, then its not suitable for you to spread your judgement. You are considering discussions on a talk page part of an edit war? I did the same as you did in the Asia article. I cited SYNTH and told him to go to the talk page which I used right after the first revert. Again, its not professional to judge something without knowing what it is. If you are not interested in reading and doing the effort, then you shouldn’t interfere in a dispute that you dont have the patience to follow. I think the Asia article is a sever edit war (doesnt sound right to say it, but so is your stance)--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 16:43, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
(edit conflict, again)Ok, but you see the difference is that I actually have evidence to support my position that there is not consensus on those edits. You are literally the only person reverting your sparring partner. Which is another good reason to step back. You believe consensus is with you. So let the other editors prove it. Simonm223 (talk) 16:44, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Note, If you have read, you will notice that there was a third party involvment in 20 AUG here. Its just that when editors see someone doing the effort, they tend to let him and relax themselves.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 16:45, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
By the way, I did have a consensus to my edits, which you considered the consensus version that was altered in 18 Aug. here. You think you have the evidence, so do I.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 16:48, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Look, I've assumed good faith. I've been nice to you throughout this. And you'll note, that I haven't opened an editwarring complaint at the relevant noticeboard; nor do I intend to if the two of you both cut it out until other editors get a chance to weigh in. But I am done in this conversation. I put the original note here to you as a courtesy. You decided to turn it into an argument. Maybe take 24 hours and cool your jets a bit. Simonm223 (talk) 16:52, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
I have been nice to you as well. And assumed your good faith. You distorted my original report, made it a content dispute and an edit war thing where I was aiming at highlighting the behaviour of an SPA. Please open an edit war complain, but I went to the notice board to get admin interference because the situation turned bad, not to get an editor who say he will not read and understand the conflict yet insist on spreading his opinion about it to several editors. The least you can do is to step back. I hope you are really done with this argument and wont reply and remain univolved (like you declared yourself to be, even though you seem involved to me now).--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 16:56, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
Greeting
Hi Attar, I read in a book that at-Taif, interestingly, was mentioned in Safaitic inscriptions (the priest of Allat who live in Taif), but the script writing was amazingly Palmyrene, so I am sceptical of including this in the article. Do you know any book that discuss Palmyrene place names? Or perhaps if at-Taif was mentioned in any inscription from Palmyra? Nabataeus (talk) 08:25, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
Hey Nabataeus, I did not come across any source that records the occurance of Al-Ta'if in Palmyrene inscriptions. Could you give me information about the book you used, maybe I can see what sources used in it and find them in the library (since most Academic works are still not available online); they might have more info that can lead to more sources and if Al-ta'if was mentioned in Palmyra then we might be able to find out where and when. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 12:10, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
No worries. After re-checking it appears to be written using south Semitic script, Safaitic, and not Palmyrene. Worth a try, to be honest. It was intriguing info I couldn't double-check. Nabataeus (talk) 17:29, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
Are you going to nominate the article of Demetrius III for FA soon? I have corrected the way he is named in the article. Векочел (talk) 14:46, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
hey. Yes i am. But first I need to wait until Antiochus XII is promoted. Rules say that you can not nominate two articles at the same time. Thanks for restoring the regnal numbers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 14:56, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
Ofcourse Векочел, I will take a look soon, but Im busy a little this week. I also have two things to tell you. First, Marcus Aurelius has been nominated for over a month without any comment. This will lead the coordinators of FAC to reject it. You deleted my comment about why it has not been receiving any reviews. I advice you to restore it because the coordinators then might read it and not reject the article. Also, it is never appropriate or allowed actually to delete or edit other editors' comments in talk pages and FAC or GA reviews. Second, a featured article is the result of a consensus. Hence, its stable version is important, as well as the style of writing. Constantly editing a page to change the text without any apparent reason accept for personal liking of a word or a style is not acceptable. There should be a reason for these edits, such as a grammatical error in the text, or an unsourced information, or a completely incomprehensible text, which does not normally exist in a featured article. Please take a look at this. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 14:37, 24 September 2018 (UTC)
Yamhad chronology
I noticed that the chronology in the article about the Kingdom of Yamhad is slightly different from the chronology in the article about his last king. Thus, the article about the Kingdom of Yamhad that Yamhad was destroyed in 1517 BC, and the article about his last king says that he was thrown off the throne in 1525 BC. Which chronology is more correct? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ринсвинд888 (talk • contribs) 13:19, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
Hey Ринсвинд888. I just read the source (by Michael Astour). The father was killed 1524, and Idrimi took Alalakh in 1517. I seem to have made a mistake between those numbers when I wrote the articles four years ago. It all corrected now.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 22:26, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
Syrian monarchs
Are the articles on the Syrian monarchs of the Seleucid dynasty that you have contributed so much to written in American English? Векочел (talk) 03:18, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
The stack template can be used to place images. I think that the wall relief depicting Cleopatra Selene of Syria's parents could be inserted into her article using this template. Do you have any objections to this? Векочел (talk) 02:54, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
My opinion regarding the importance of the relief is next: isnt one parent (Ptolemy VIII) enough? The wall relief depicts them in Egyptian standard style. Meaning that Cleopatra III looks just like her mother Cleopatra II, and Ptolemy VIII looks just like Ramses IX who lived a thousand years before him (this relief). The point is, the article will not be imporved by such an image, and the readers wont get any idea about how the parents looked since Ptolemy VIII and Thutmose I will not look much different from each other. (Ancient Egyptian art individualized the persons it depicted mostly during the the Twelfth Dynasty of Egypt and the reign of Akhenaten. Aside from those periods, the majority of ancient Egyptian portraits are standardized version that give little space to individual features).
As for your question if Im okay: if you really wanna replace the coin of Ptolemy VIII with the wall relief then its your call. I just urge you to maintain uniformity by keeping the size of the image inline with the rest of the images. However, if you wanna add the relief to the Historical background, family and name section, then Im against this because the infobox is already taking the place of any photo.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 04:57, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
Hello, Attar-Aram syria. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 2 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
Hello, Attar-Aram syria. Voting in the 2018 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23.59 on Sunday, 3 December. All users who registered an account before Sunday, 28 October 2018, made at least 150 mainspace edits before Thursday, 1 November 2018 and are not currently blocked are eligible to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
Hi Attar-Aram, and thanks for your comments at al-Mu'tasim's FAC, they made the article considerably better. If I could request a favour, there's also an A-class candidate of mine that's been around for ages and where people seem reluctant to review. This is probably not an area of expertise for you, but precisely because of this (and because of your high standards with your own articles) I'd like you to have a look at it with a critical eye. If you don't have the time or don't feel up to it, of course, no worries. Cheers, and a happy holiday season. --Constantine ✍ 16:31, 23 December 2018 (UTC)
Yes. But first it needs to be edited by a guild editor and Im waiting because I ordered a book that expand on Malalas' account regarding the king. Once I have the source and use it to expand the article, I will ask for the copy edit and nominate it for FA. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 18:43, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
Maps
Hello Attar! I hope everything is well with you. I'm translation some of your articles and I would like to make svg versions of the maps you made. If you could help anyway I would be thankful for.Renato de carvalho ferreira (talk) 14:19, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Hey Renato. I created three maps of the Seleucids. Syria in 87 BC, Syria in 92 BC and Syria in 95 BC. I also created maps for Palmyra and maps of the ancient Near East. However, Im not talented when it comes to softwares and creation. I only use an old version of photoshop and I can understand how svg works. Constantine was nice enough to create svg version of the 95 BC and the 92 BC maps. So, Im more than happy to help with anything I can do. But if its about maps' creation and formats, I think its better to ask Constantine for help. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 15:07, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
I can create, this is not a difficult task. My only problem is that I need blanked maps to write the legends. How the maps are topographical I cannot just erase the legendes, otherwise it's going to destroy the map's visual, at least on the tools I have because the eraser uses just on color, and the pixels don't follow just one color, they become lighter or darker depending where you look; ex (see the strange dark bar above). I don't know how to use photoshops so well. I use svg because it's easier to create and edit.Renato de carvalho ferreira (talk) 17:40, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Oh then thats easy. I use these blank map [32], [33] and [34]. But if you mean blanked maps without legends but with borders and colors, then Im afraid that I didnt keep them unfortunately. Hope this helps.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 17:45, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
Question
Greetings. I have a question with regards to Zenobia. In the article, it is written: " No contemporary statues of Zenobia have been found in Palmyra or elsewhere, only inscriptions on statue bases." However, in the next section, one can also find the following statement: "Another argument in favor of Zenobius' identification as the father is that his statue was opposite that of the queen on the Great Colonnade." Aren't they contradictory, since archeologists have not discovered any contemporary statue of Zenobia in Palmyra? Or does "opposite that of the queen" refer to the fact that the purported father's statue is located opposite of the niche where the statue of Zenobia once stood? Could you kindly clarify this? I would like to thank you for your kind assistance. Mimihitam (talk) 10:23, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
Hey Mimihitam. I see, it is confusing indeed. Two statues were erected by Palmyrene generals for Zenobia and her husband, but only the bases of those statues with the inscriptions mentioning the names of those to whom the statues were dedicated survive. Thats how we know that Zenobius' statue stood opposite the statue of Zenobia. I will clarify it in the article today. Cheers.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 11:17, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
Which period? Im mostly familiar with the late Seleucid period, and I practically gathered all the academic sources in my articles, but if you want a particular source about a particular ruler or aspect of the empire, don't hesitate to ask.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 03:08, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Ive been looking for sources on the early life of Antiochus VIII but due to the scarcity of sources on the Seleucid era, I am having difficulty finding a source for that. Векочел (talk) 14:23, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
The sources are not scarce Векочел. You can find what you need if you put effort into it, just like I and many other editors who created good content did. Use https://scholar.google.com/ or go to the usual google.com and type ure key words followed by academia site, for example: Antiochus VIII site:www.academia.edu
Also, every academic source have a list of sources, use it and try to find the sources listed in it, that seems relevant for your research, in libraries. Start with this A note on Cleopatra Thea, Antiochus Grypus and Athens. and expand from it. You really need to learn how to conduct your own research, find your sources, and create a narrative that can become an article worthy of reading even by experts (since you seem to like those types of articles).--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 08:03, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
I'm looking for a copy of Daniel Ogden's Polygamy, Prostitutes and Death but I haven't had any luck finding one. Векочел (talk) 19:57, 27 April 2019 (UTC)
GA nominee
Hey Attar, can I ask you for a favour? I was wondering whether you'd be willing to review this GA candidate of mine. Because of your high standards with your own articles in this topic area, I'd like you to have a look at it with a critical eye. If you don't have the time or don't feel up to it, of course, no worries. - LouisAragon (talk) 14:41, 21 April 2019 (UTC)
Hey Attar, you don't happen to possess some sources about the Seleucid-Parthian conflict/relations? Or/And soly about the Parthians for that matter. Would greatly appreciate it. --HistoryofIran (talk) 01:17, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
By the authority vested in me by myself it gives me great pleasure to present you with this barnstar in recognition of your generation of exceptionally high quality articles over an extended period. Long may you continue to generate them. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:41, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
Thank you today for the "king of Palmyra, king of kings of the East, saviour of Rome (at least in the minds of Roman writers), and the actual reason for Palmyra's rise! His wars against Persia healed the wounded pride of Rome which was shattered by the capture of emperor Valerian, the first Roman emperor to be captured by an enemy! But Odaenathus is overshadowed by his wife, Zenobia, and thats why not a lot of people know his story even though Zenobia contributed nothing to the power of Palmyra; she merely used what her husband built, including his army, generals and resources. Yet, she gets all the glory; the idea of a warrior queen is more attractive for people."! - I have a FAC open, did you know? And - shocking contrast -had nominated a sad DYK which appears today: Hevrin Khalaf - protest! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:48, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
For Palmyra, Qatna, Zenobia, Odaenathus—the King of Kings of the East—and the many other articles set to grace the Main Page. Your unfailing dedication to improving our coverage of Syrian history has been exemplary and is much appreciated my friend. Al Ameer (talk) 21:01, 19 November 2019 (UTC)
Majority of (post-2006) Parthian-related sources don't seem to support the existence of this figure, let alone the various other questionable rulers proposed by Assar. Majority of regnal dates by Assar aren't generally supported in scholarship either. M. Rahim Shayegan in Arsacids and Sasanians: Political Ideology in Post-Hellenistic and Late Antique Persia (2011) has suggested that Demetrius III Eucaerus was in reality captured by a Parthian general named Mithridates, during the reign of Gotarzes I (pages: 203-204 and 314-315, [36]). Thoughts? --HistoryofIran (talk) 04:21, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
As always, historians never agree. I did not dig deep into this, but maybe this will help:
Yep, I've seen that source. Simonetta (unlike Assar) states that Mithridates III fought not Orodes, but Gotarzes, which would make sense regarding the chronology and less of a pain in the butt to attempt to improve these articles. But generally, if a suggestion made by a scholar isn't really supported in scholarship, then I think we should take heed to that. Anyhow, Simoneta's source seems much more realistic and consistent than that of Assar, who comes up with many strange proposals, especially the one regarding the double reign of Sinatruces, which is supported nowhere. I'm just gonna refrain from using Assar, I think it's best that way imho. His work is clearly not seminal, that's for certain. --HistoryofIran (talk) 13:24, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Yea, you are right, but a better approach is to attribute a scholar's theories to the scholar and not judge if his arguments are convincing or not. I think the only safe thing we can say is that a Mithradates III existed in 87 BC, then the opinions of scholars supporting this existence should be stated and attributed to them so that the readers understand that what they are reading is not the academic consensus.--Attar-Aram syria (talk) 15:23, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
I guess so. This is one reasons I try to avoid the Parthians (at the least the early ones) and other obscure dynasties/rulers of this period. I see you've had your fair share of issues like this as well, looking at the Seleucid articles you've expanded. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:49, 24 November 2019 (UTC)
Hello! I just wanted to request that you archive your user talk page. While it may not be bothersome to you, many editors have slow connections, and having a very large talk page can hamper communication. If you need help, just check out the guide over at Help:Archiving a talk page. Thanks! Miniapolis15:47, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
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