Template talk:Infobox province or territory of Canada/Archive 1

Archive 1

Syntax

{{Canadian province or territory
|  Name                = Quebec
|  Fullname            = Province of Quebec
|  Flag                = Quebec_flag.png
|  CoatOfArms          = Qc-coat-thb.jpg
|  Map                 = Map_of_Canada_highlighting_Quebec.png
|  Motto               = Je me souviens (I remember)
|  Capital             = [[Quebec City, Quebec|Quebec City]]
|  LargestCity         = [[Montreal|Montreal]]
|  Premier             = [[Jean Charest]]
|  PremierParty        = [[Parti libéral du Québec|PLQ]]
|  Viceroy             = [[Lise Thibault]]
|  ViceroyType         = [[Lieutenant governor|Lieutenant Governor]]
|  PostalAbbreviation  = QC
|  PostalCodePrefix    = [[List of G Postal Codes of Canada|G]], [[List of H Postal Codes of Canada|H]], [[List of J Postal Codes of Canada|J]]
|  AreaRank            = 2<sup>nd</sup>
|  TotalArea           = 1,542,056
|  LandArea            = 1,183,128
|  WaterArea           = 176,928
|  PercentWater        = 11.5
|  PopulationRank      = 2<sup>nd</sup>
|  Population          = 7,509,928
|  PopulationYear      = [[2004]]
|  DensityRank         = 5<sup>th</sup>
|  Density             = 5.43
|  AdmittanceOrder     = 1<sup>st</sup>
|  AdmittanceDate      = [[July 1]], [[1867]]
|  TimeZone            = [[UTC]]-5
|  HouseSeats          = 75
|  SenateSeats         = 24
|  ISOCode             = CA-QC
|  Website             = www.gouv.qc.ca
}}


Nice job. —Michael Z. 21:15, 15 January 2005 (UTC)

Official Languages is borked.

I've tried fooling around with the various official language syntaxes and can't find the right one. This template looks simular to the US State, but the syntax for that one doesn't work here (" OfficialLang = None |").

Anyways, all the provinces have {{{Official Languages}}} listed as their official language, and nothing in the syntax allows you to define one. Anyways, probably just an oversight.

Tezkah (It helps to be logged in.) 13:41, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

After some consideration, I've decided to take the official languages field out; so few provinces/territories have one that we might as well just mention it in the article text. - Montréalais 05:32, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

AlternateName

I added an AlternateName parameter to the template. I was driven to do this by New Brunswick, which previously had "New Brunswick<br>Nouveau-Brunswick" as its Name, which broke the links. I was also able to use it for Nunavut. I'm not sure how to apply it to Quebec (i.e. which name should be the "alternate" name). --timc | Talk 13:41, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Flower

Okay, "Flower" just got added. However, Newfoundland and Labrador has it's own list of provincial symbols. Now in that case, it's an easy duplication, I just take out one of them. But I realize that I think there should be a quick discussion of what should really be in the template, and what order they should be in. For example: every province has a mean annual rainfall, a highest geographical point, a largest lake, a male:female ratio, a median age, etc. Clearly not all of these should be included. However, most of them make for awkward text. I hope someone might put down some discussion on this, and then I'll make whatever changes seem to be agreed upon.

Before someone kicks in with the fact that most of my list could actually have a good home in the topic articles off a Province's page, I know that. I guess I just was a bit taken aback by "Flower" coming ahead of, say, "Capital" or "Area". Anyone else feel this way? AshleyMorton 17:03, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

On the Manitoba page the "Flower" part doesn't seem to be working and I can't see why. Anyone want to take a look? Qutezuce 23:26, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Soil

I've noticed that some provinces are starting to proclaim "Official Soils". For example, PEI is Charlottetown Soil - "characterized by a fine sandy loam texture, is mainly well drained and is highly suitable for the production of a wide range of crops, including potatoes".[1] Also New Brunswick has Holmesville Soil.[2] This is an initiative of the Canadian Society of Soil Science. Should Official Soil be listed along with Tree and Bird?

I don't even think official tree and bird should be listed. These official things should be pushed off to a separate template, somewhat like how it was done in Newfoundland and Labrador. Lexicon (talk) 13:55, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

largest city = capital

We need this option, like in Template:Infobox Country (see, for example, Germany) so we don't have to list a city twice when the capital is also the largest city. Lexicon (talk) 13:55, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

I see this is a very old request but it made sense to me so I added it along with a parameter to add the Capital's {{coord}}. If LargestCity = capital, then it will simply say "(and largest city)". DoubleBlue (talk) 17:37, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
I've changed my mind on this as it doesn't make sense to change a line saying "Largest City: City" with a line saying "(and largest city)". When adding it also meant the addition of capital coords, I could justify it as it contracted the length of the infobox; this way it doesn't. See #CapCoord (see talk page?) below. DoubleBlue (talk) 00:08, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Land area

Should there be land area ? --Sonyuser 15:25, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Subtract water from total--seems good enough to me. Lexicon (talk) 15:44, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Demonyms?

Hey do you think demonyms (ex. Nova Scotian, Islander, etc.) should be added? They're on the US State template but I'm afraid I don't know how to add them to this. Mhavril39 (talk) 16:29, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Meh, I don't particularly support but I don't object either. DoubleBlue (talk) 16:34, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

CapCoord (see talk page?)

The parameter CapCoord was added to the template with the edit summary see talk page. I don't see anything here. The parameter seems to be a bad idea to me. It leads to unnecessary data duplication as the coordinates are already to be found th the articles for the capitals (which are linked from the infobox). --Dschwen 23:12, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

It's right above under #largest city = capital. It doesn't seem that it is a problem to me since the coords are only inline in the infobox. DoubleBlue (talk) 23:20, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Your note on my talk page clarifies what you meant here. I still think that info about capital's coords and link to the map is useful to a reader of a provincial article. Such a reader would not necessarily be interested in reading about the city but interested in where the province's capital is. DoubleBlue (talk) 23:27, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Oh right, I was blind. Sure, I see the slight convenience aspect. The reader saves one click. But at least for me, as a data re-user and maintainer, this move is detrimental (not so convenient for me). --Dschwen 23:30, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
It doesn't appear to me to be outputting KML data, only "geo" classes for vcard. Are you certain it really affects WikiMiniAtlas? DoubleBlue (talk) 23:43, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Sure. I extract the coordinate data on the Wikimedia toolserver directly from the replicated database. I use the external links table, which - among many others - contains the links to the geohack, created by the coord template. (these links contain the contents of the name parameter by the way). --Dschwen 00:12, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
You are getting beyond my technical understanding. If it's a problem, I support removing it but I just want to understand the relative counter-weight of the inconvenience to WMA to the convenience to the reader. Thanks, DoubleBlue (talk) 02:19, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
One parameter in one template is not much of a problem. And there is only a handful of canadian provinces after all. So you are putting me in a difficult spot to make an argument against this particular instance. It is the general idea of data duplication that is harmful and makes maintaining the data unnecessarily hard (and believe me If I tell you that some effort should be spent on checking and correcting broken geodata first before adding more data, especially if it is redundant anyways). It would be a waste of time and energy for me to spend too much energy fighting it in a tiny nice location like this template. We will have to have a fundamental discussion about it, for example on the Geocoding project page. There are worse cases than this template around. --Dschwen 18:56, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, since we are the only two to discuss this and the initial request above didn't ask for coords (it just made sense to do so when changing to (and largest city) to make use of the extra space), I am going to take my addition as being Bold, and Dschwen as politely asking for a Revert, as part of the WP:BRD and reverting its addition. Cheers! DoubleBlue (talk) 00:04, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
He he, well, thanks :-). I hope you didn't need need too much imagination for taking my request to be polite ;-). --Dschwen 15:46, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Move to normalize capitalization

This should be moved to {{Infobox province or territory of Canada}}, so we can just type its name by the normal rules of capitalization (province is not a proper noun). Any objections, before I make a request? —Michael Z. 2009-01-08 19:24 z — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mzajac (talk • contribs) 19:24, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Field entry issues

I'm not sure how to make fields optional, but the Yukon infobox, and perhaps others, is currently a bit messed up. (Motto:N/A or Motto:{{Motto}}, Largest Metro:{{Largest metro}}) and so on. AlexiusHoratius 00:46, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Proportion of Canada

Arctic.gnome has added a line titled "Proportion of Canada" to the population section, dividing the population of the province ({{{Population}}}) by 34,657,000. However, not all provinces use the same year for their {{{Population}}}, thus creating an incorrect comparison. How can this be rectified? Also, is the intended number 34,658,000? 117Avenue (talk) 04:30, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I do think that a province's proportion of Canada's population is a key fact that belongs on the infobox, but you're right that the provincial population must be divided by the national population from the same year. I see two ways of doing that. One option is to write in this template that if PopulationYear=2010 to use 34,018,957 as the divisor, and if PopulationYear=2011 to use the number from that year. The other option is to add a NationalPopulation parameter to the template that each article can manually add the national number from their source. I prefer the first method because it reduces edits that must be made to the province articles, and even if the provincial population and federal population come from different sources that use different months, the difference will disappear in rounding. However, before we make that edit, we have to fix the population years that are on the province articles now. They seem to all use the April 2010 StatsCan page as a reference, but some of them use 2011 numbers from a mystery reference. Also, some of the ones with 2011 numbers give 2010 as a year, and some of the ones with 2010 numbers give 2009 as a year. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 06:37, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
Yes, checking the references would be the first place to start. 117Avenue (talk) 13:53, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
Given that several provinces are having a problem making their listed population match the source that they use, I'm thinking of giving the province articles the option to take their numbers from the template. We could say that if the article uses population=auto, it will grab the numbers from a #switch expression on this template that lists the latest StatsCan numbers for each province. If population= is anything else, it will override, but the article will have to add its own PopulationRef= and its own NationalPopulation=. —Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 15:31, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
That would be good. But is it possible to update all the articles with the latest data? 117Avenue (talk) 22:33, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
If they pulled the information from the template, we could update all of them at once every time StatsCan updated their estimate. After thinking about this some more, it might be an even better idea to pull the data from a separate template so that other articles could access it, like Demographics of Canada, Provinces and territories of Canada, and the Portal pages for each province. I've tested it at {{Infobox province or territory of Canada/population}}. Using that template:
  • {{Infobox province or territory of Canada/population|Alberta}} resolves as {{Infobox province or territory of Canada/population|Alberta}}
  • {{Infobox province or territory of Canada/population|Yukon}} resolves as {{Infobox province or territory of Canada/population|Yukon}}
  • {{Infobox province or territory of Canada/population|reference}} resolves as {{Infobox province or territory of Canada/population|reference}}
  • {{Infobox province or territory of Canada/population|year}} resolves as {{Infobox province or territory of Canada/population|year}}
—Arctic Gnome (talk • contribs) 23:19, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
Why update it every year? And not go one step farther, using a calculator to constantly be updating it. I see both {{CanadaPop}} and {{Data Canada|poptoday}} still use the 2010-2011 calculations. According to Canada's population clock, and my calculations, the current equation is {{#expr:({{#time:U}}+1725147248)/88}} (39,321,191). The population clock also has calculations for six of the provinces. 117Avenue (talk) 00:40, 24 November 2011 (UTC)

Possible error?

Hello. Is the current line 

| {{#ifeq: {{{EntityAdjective|}}} | Provincial | [[Constitutional monarchy]] | }}

correct?

It looks like it delivers nothing...? 213.246.88.102 (talk) 19:55, 1 November 2012 (UTC)

Wrapper

As discussed at the recent TfD, I believe that we should make this template a wrapper for {{Infobox settlement}}. What issues need to be considered? Who would like to assist? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:50, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

Why? What problem are we trying to solve? --Skeezix1000 (talk) 16:39, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Protected edit request on 3 June 2014 — Withdrawn

— Who R you? Talk 15:56, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 30 August 2014

Add Area Code 19960401 16:23, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Please, explain what exactly you are proposing. Ruslik_Zero 19:00, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

add the phone Area Code to the infobox

By exact, put in exactly what you would add, letter by letter, if you were to edit this yourself. Also exactly where. After doing so, please reactivate the edit request. — xaosflux Talk 20:54, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 20 November 2015

Update request: The House of Commons now has 338 seats, instead of 308. GoodDay (talk) 03:33, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

 Done eg. Alberta....before=House seats 28 of 308 (9.1%) -......after=House seats 28 of 338 (8.3%)--Moxy (talk) 03:43, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks, Moxy :) GoodDay (talk) 08:13, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Second set of population parameters

Template:Infobox settlement has seven sets of population parameters. This infobox has one. WP:CANPOP states "the population figure and demographics from the last official Statistics Canada census is the principal definitive source for population data in articles." Therefore, the lone population parameter in this infobox must be the latest StatCan federal census count. However, we regularly get fly-by-night IP editors, or other editors not yet familiar with CANPOP, replacing these with the last StatCan intercensal population estimates shortly after they are released. All done in good faith, but there is a way to include both an avoid needless controversy.

Please add three new parameters – population_est (optional for population estimate), pop_est_as_of (optional for year or month and year of the population estimate) and pop_est_footnotes (optional for the reference(s) for population estimate, placed within <ref> </ref> tags). These are the same parameters used at Template:Infobox settlement. In terms of appearance, the outputs should appear after the density figure. In the instance of the 2016 Q1 population estimate for Ontario, ideally the following would output as "2016 Q1 estimate" on the left and "13,873,933 [1]" on the right:


| Population_est = 13873933
| Pop_est_as_of = 2016 Q1
| Pop_est_ref = <ref name=StatCan2016Q1Est>{{cite web | url=http://www5.statcan.gc.ca/cansim/a26?lang=eng&retrLang=eng&id=0510005&paSer=&pattern=&stByVal=1&p1=1&p2=31&tabMode=dataTable&csid= | title=Population by year of Canada of Canada and territories | publisher=[[Statistics Canada]] | date=September 26, 2014 | accessdate=March 20, 2016}}</ref>

Can someone please undertake? I am requesting this arising out of this discussion. Cheers, Hwy43 (talk) 02:00, 20 March 2016 (UTC)

I think I figured out how to do it in the sandbox. About to try it out live. Hwy43 (talk) 02:01, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
Oops. It appears the template is locked down such that I can't edit it. Can someone do this on my behalf? Hwy43 (talk) 02:08, 21 March 2016 (UTC)
 Done by Good Olfactory. We finally now have the ability to present both the latest StatCan census count and latest quarterly StatCan intercensal estimate. The latest federal census count appears first as it should per WP:CANPOP. The estimate then follows. Having both should save some heartache and woe for the good faith/inexperienced editors not aware of CANPOP and for the experienced editors that have to spend the time reverting these efforts and explaining the reasons when the good faith/inexperienced editors get emotional or belligerent. It simply makes sense to have the flexibility to display both, especially since the quarterly estimates get significant media coverage every time they are released, and removes the needless controversy. Further, it is consistent with the approach taken at Template:Infobox settlement where there are seven sets of population count parameters, including one for estimates and two blank parameters that could be used for estimates. Cheers, Hwy43 (talk) 05:38, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Convert to {{Infobox}}

Hey folks,

Can we convert this template to use {{Infobox}} like the {{Infobox settlement}}, {{Infobox Australia state or territory}} and {{Infobox U.S. state}} templates use? -- PK2 (talk) 01:20, 31 October 2016 (UTC)

done. Frietjes (talk) 16:54, 28 November 2016 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 28 September 2017

The population_density_km2 should be rounded to the nearest hundredth or thousandth, otherwise both Nunavut and Northwest Territories have a population density of "0/km2". -Tomchen1989 (talk) 20:12, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

 Done @Tomchen1989: adjusted to 2 decimals. — xaosflux Talk 16:20, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

There are a few wikilinks that are out of date, like Canadian House of Commons, which should be updated to House of Commons of Canada. Please update the template code. Alaney2k (talk) 02:44, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

 Not done @Alaney2k: please provide an exact change before reactivating this edit request. That is, what exactly would you change if it were not for the protection. To just discuss general improvements, feel free to continue discussing here. — xaosflux Talk 20:17, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, please change | label3 = [[Canadian House of Commons|House seats]] to=> | label3 = [[House of Commons of Canada|House seats]] Alaney2k (talk) 20:30, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
 Done - FlightTime (open channel) 20:34, 26 February 2018 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 24 June 2018

Please edit the template code so that for the largest city, you should specify "Largest City=capital" if the capital is also the largest city, similar to with Template:Infobox U.S. state and with a similar resultant appearance. Captain Cornwall (talk) 13:14, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

 Not done @Captain Cornwall: Please implement the desired changes in the sandbox and test them first. Jon Kolbert (talk) 21:31, 28 June 2018 (UTC)

Wordmark/image_blank_emblem field?

Hey all- does anyone have thoughts on adding an image_blank_emblem field or similar to this? American here, so I wouldn't change this without consensus, but it seems unlike the US states, all Canadian provinces have logos/official wordmarks they use in an capacity not limited to tourism. Is this something that would make sense to add to this infobox along with flag and seal? It's a field already used in major settlements, take Montreal for example. --Simtropolitan (talk) 22:04, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

Protection level

  • 00:23, 2 April 2014‎ DangerousPanda talk contribs‎ m 5,831 bytes 0‎ Protected Template:Infobox province or territory of Canada: Highly visible template ([Edit=Allow only administrators] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only administrators] (indefinite))
  • 20:43, 13 June 2014‎ Kelapstick talk contribs‎ m 5,831 bytes 0‎ Changed protection level of Template:Infobox province or territory of Canada: Per request ([Edit=Allow only template editors and admins] (indefinite) [Move=Allow only template editors and admins] (indefinite))

Request to change from template-protected to semi-protected

Per Wikipedia:Protection policy#template - certainly not high-risk with it being a wrapper - so much cannot be changed anyway - and only 13 transclusions, cf. other wrappers : Wikipedia:List of infoboxes/Geography and place#Place. 77.183.70.51 (talk) 12:42, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

This was done because despite 3 deletion attempts (now 4) we had Socks and Vandals trying to push standardization despite the rationals for not changing the template. Its good that only experienced editors can muck around with this...does not matter if its on one article or 30000 still the same problem. --Moxy 🍁 16:45, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
 Not done: requests for decreases to the page protection level should be directed to the protecting admin or to Wikipedia:Requests for page protection if the protecting admin is not active or has declined the request. * Pppery * it has begun... 02:11, 1 August 2019 (UTC)

Edit protected - issues with this template

This template has several issues, see [3]

  1. The regional symbols should be included via Template:Infobox region symbols
  2. The population data retrieval should be outsourced to a template as it is done for others: Category:Template:Metadata Population
    • ...will be done later
    • ...will be done later

@Darwinek, Gonnym, Pigsonthewing, JelgavaLV, TerraCyprus, TrailBlzr, Ythlev, and Zackmann08: 77.183.70.51 (talk) 11:26, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

@Frietjes and Arctic.gnome: 77.183.70.51 (talk) 11:29, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

Code for regional symbols is ready. 77.183.70.51 (talk) 11:57, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

I've added no_header to the regional symbols sub-box making it identical to the current apperence. --Trialpears (talk) 15:32, 31 July 2019 (UTC)
 Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 01:18, 13 August 2019 (UTC)

conversion to Template:Infobox settlement

Hey everyone,

Can someone please please convert this template to Template:Infobox settlement just like they have with Template:U.S. state? -- PK2 (talk) 23:25, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

PK2, it already is? ‑‑Trialpears (talk) 23:29, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
Oh, I forgot. Then why isn't the 'settlement_type' used for this template like it is for Template:U.S. state? -- PK2 (talk) 02:13, 25 January 2020 (UTC)
PK2, it is. Nikkimaria (talk) 15:08, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Proposal: addition of image_map

image_map and map_caption are in {{infobox settlement}} and enable the addition of maps via Wikidata and OSM and {{maplink}}. This could be used in addition to the current map of Canada. You can see an implementation at Fredericton. If there are concerns that all pages using the IB be similar, I volunteer to implement the maps on all 13 (?) pages. --Cornellier (talk) 22:04, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

What would be the benefit of including both? Nikkimaria (talk) 22:32, 22 June 2020 (UTC)
Some pages are already doing this as in Bavaria. Here's an example for New Brunswick here: Template_talk:Infobox_province_or_territory_of_Canada/nb. The {{maplink}} implementation conveys much more geographic information than the curent setup:
  • currently the only location data given is the coordinates, somewhere in the centre of the province. The maplink map gives the border.
  • it's interactive. Click on the current map and you get ... a bigger version of the same thing.
  • it can be zoomed in to show an actual map of the province concerned, not just almost featureless red blob on a map of Canada
  • the map is sourced from OpenStreetMap and is always up-to-date, as opposed to the static map used now. --Cornellier (talk) 10:55, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
You're describing the benefits of using image_map instead of a static map, but your proposal seems to be addition rather than replacement. Could you clarify? Nikkimaria (talk) 12:37, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
I said above that it could be used in addition to the current map of Canada, implying instead of or in addition to. Sorry if that's not clear. At this point I'm presenting options, explaining the uses of maplink, and showing some examples. All of Germany only uses maplink, as you can see at Bavaria. A similar implementation for NB would look like this Template_talk:Infobox_province_or_territory_of_Canada/nb zoomed in, or like this Template_talk:Infobox_province_or_territory_of_Canada/nb-ca zoomed out. With the current config I can't show both the current map style and the maplink one, although Fredericton can give you an idea. I'm interested to know whether there's interest in this in some as-yet-to-be-set-in-concrete form. --Cornellier (talk) 19:59, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
I don't see a particular benefit to including more than one map type in a single box. Nikkimaria (talk) 20:00, 27 June 2020 (UTC)
OK. Then could follow Germany's example. --Cornellier (talk) 20:47, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

Changes 2020-09-12 other than time zones

  1. 19:00, 12 September 2020‎ 77.191.9.108 talk‎ 6,821 bytes +481‎ format : indentions undo
  2. 19:19, 12 September 2020‎ 77.191.9.108 talk‎ 6,821 bytes 0‎ format : variable names undo
  3. 19:20, 12 September 2020‎ 77.191.9.108 talk‎ 6,821 bytes 0‎ Undid revision 978076714 by 77.191.9.108 (talk) undo Tag: Undo
  4. 20:48, 12 September 2020‎ 77.191.9.108 talk‎ 6,764 bytes -57‎ {{{EntityAdjective|}}} : provide {{{government_type|}}} directly, not via hardcoding via "Provincial" and mapping that. Furthermore, there is already {{{Type|}}} which has a 1:1 relation to EntityAdjective undo
  5. 20:54, 12 September 2020‎ 77.191.9.108 talk‎ 6,509 bytes -255‎ s/{{#if:{{{Name|}}}|{{{Name|}}}|{{PAGENAMEBASE}}}}/{{{Name|}}} ... the {{{Name|}}} is provided in each article undo

77.191.9.108 (talk) 22:06, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Re "government_type" - EntityAdjective didn't exist on all province articles, e.g. Manitoba and PEI missed it. 77.191.9.108 (talk) 22:09, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

Symbols

IP, what specific "bugs" do you feel are solved by this edit? It's not required to add new parameters. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:04, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

None. I have no feelings with respect to bug solving. 77.191.9.108 (talk) 02:06, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
Your edit summary in that revert specifically mentioned bugs. If no bugs are solved by that change, then what rationale is there to make it? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:09, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
To fix the bugs. 77.191.9.108 (talk) 02:14, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
...So again then, what specific bugs do you feel are solved by that change, given that it's not required to add new parameters? Nikkimaria (talk) 02:17, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
see above 02:06, 13 September 2020 77.11.42.242 (talk) 02:59, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Articles use parameters that might be parameters for symbols, but which are not implemented. There is a module for symbols: Template:Infobox region symbols. 77.191.9.108 (talk) 02:05, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Mineral

user:Pppery why did you remove "mineral" from being displayed on all the pages that use that parameter? [4] 77.191.9.108 (talk) 02:14, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Because I reverted your change, for the reason I explained in my edit summary; The way the template has worked for over 2 years can't possibly have "too many bugs"). I have no objections to it being added in principle, but I recommend you stop making undiscussed changes, especially since you've just violated 3RR. * Pppery * it has begun... 02:17, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
Can you substantiate The way the template has worked for over 2 years can't possibly have "too many bugs")? 77.11.42.242 (talk) 02:27, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
Does it really need much substantiation? You are claiming that this template has been fundamentally broken / has had too many bugs for four years. That's an extraordinary claim, and you are not providing any evidence for it whatsoever. * Pppery * it has begun... 02:37, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
Nobody claimed that "it really [does] need much substantiation". The simple question was /Can you substantiate The way the template has worked for over 2 years can't possibly have "too many bugs")?/. That is a yes/no question. But you decided not to answer to that yes/no question. 77.11.42.242 (talk) 02:57, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
I thought we removed all these parameters long ago. I see these additions are always removed because they are unsourced, not mentioned in the articles and contain tiny little mini images. Where's the old talk about these? Do we want to list the 14 symbols each places have when we don't even mention them in the article?--Moxy 🍁 02:23, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

Timezone

title changed from "Timezone edit warring" to "Timezone", since the discussion was broadened from talking only about edit warring to also talking about content

  1. 21:01, 12 September 2020‎ 77.191.9.108 talk‎ 6,689 bytes +180‎ enable timezone support as provided by the Infobox settlement undo
  2. 21:07, 12 September 2020‎ 77.191.9.108 talk‎ 6,971 bytes +282‎ more undo
  3. 21:43, 12 September 2020‎ 77.191.9.108 talk‎ 6,992 bytes +21‎ undo
  4. 21:44, 12 September 2020‎ Nikkimaria talk contribs‎ 6,971 bytes -21‎ restore undo Tag: Manual revert
  5. 21:48, 12 September 2020‎ 77.191.9.108 talk‎ 6,992 bytes +21‎ Undid revision 978096542 by Nikkimaria (talk) undo Tag: Undo
  6. 21:49, 12 September 2020‎ Nikkimaria talk contribs‎ 6,971 bytes -21‎ Reverted to revision 978096542 by Nikkimaria (talk): It's the same link across the whole set, no rationale for change undo Tags: Undo Twinkle
  7. 21:50, 12 September 2020‎ 77.191.9.108 talk‎ 6,992 bytes +21‎ no it isn't // Undid revision 978097084 by Nikkimaria (talk) undo Tag: Undo

user:Nikkimaria what's up with you? 77.191.9.108 (talk) 21:55, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

I'm concerned that you've been making a significant number of changes to this template without clearly explaining your rationale or discussing, while a potential merge is being discussed, and when changes are disputed you've restored them. Nikkimaria (talk) 21:57, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
  • "without clearly explaining your rationale or discussing" - WP:NPA. Since the section is labeled "Timezone edit warring": If for my three edits regarding time zones, explanations provided by me like "enable timezone support as provided by the Infobox settlement" are not "clearly" to you then ask.
  • Regarding your claim "It's the same link across the whole set, no rationale for change", see: Time in Nunavut, Time in Saskatchewan
  • a potential merge doesn't exempt templates and articles from the possibility of being improved. 77.191.9.108 (talk) 22:06, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
  • The simple fact of using the word "your" does not magically make a statement a personal attack. You did not provide any edit summary explaining the removal of the default time zone link, thus until now had proposed no rationale at all for that particular change. Thank you for now doing so, but the previous presentation of the Time in Saskatchewan link in Saskatchewan was clearer for readers and provides better consistency for articles across the set. (I can't speak to the presentation on Nunavut because currently that link doesn't show up at all). Nikkimaria (talk) 22:16, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
"your" is preceded by "without clearly explaining" and followed by "rationale". I regret I didn't put an edit summary for the timezone_link change. Nunavut is a bug, and was before. The parameter timezone_link should be the most specific for the entity described in the article, that is the standard for all the 530 000+ articles in the set of articles using {{infobox settlement}}. 77.191.9.108 (talk) 22:34, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
Given that most of the labels used by this template link either to a Canadian or a more general page, it is unlikely that a reader would expect different behaviour for this label. Further, since in nearly all cases the link is to Time in Canada, consistency would support using that link in all cases. The specific link to Time in Saskatchewan was already provided in the previous implementation of the template in a way that was more logical for the average reader, and I'm not seeing consensus to move away from that status quo. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:47, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
I see no consensus for proceeding with violating the specification for Infobox settlement. Re "Given that most of the labels used by this template link either to a Canadian or a more general page" - most readers of the 13 articles don't know what template is used. But the visual presentation to them, is that of {{infobox settlement}}. Re "The specific link to Time in Saskatchewan was already provided in the previous implementation of the template in a way that was more logical for the average reader" - no. 77.191.9.108 (talk) 23:05, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Templates don't, or shouldn't, have opinions. I'm unable to find this "specification" you claim was being violated anywhere. * Pppery * it has begun... 02:15, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
Brought up at Template talk:Infobox settlement#Non-standard links for time in wrapper Infobox province or territory of Canada. 77.191.9.108 (talk) 23:13, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
If the TfD closes with a consensus to merge, that would be the appropriate place to discuss it. However, at the moment, the appropriate place is here, and the relevant specifications are here. And if you want to get consensus here, you're going to need a more convincing argument than "no". Nikkimaria (talk) 23:50, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
Nikkimaria, it is not, since this template here is only a wrapper, and feeding wrong values into the parent template of course could be of interested to others. 77.191.9.108 (talk) 02:08, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
(edit conflict) "Wrong" according to whom other than you? Simply asserting without evidence that a value is "wrong" is not an argument. * Pppery * it has begun... 02:15, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
According to the code. 77.11.42.242 (talk) 02:28, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
Code is morally neutral. It specifies how to handle a certain set of parameters, not how they should be used. * Pppery * it has begun... 02:37, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
The parameters are named in English. 77.11.42.242 (talk) 03:00, 13 September 2020 (UTC)

user:Nikkimaria, re Nunavut: asked at Template talk:Infobox settlement#Timezone3 timezone4 77.191.9.108 (talk) 22:43, 12 September 2020 (UTC)

New edits?

Not sure why the box got 10 feet longer causing mass sandwiching and now implements side scroll in mobile view. Can this be fixed? Revert?--Moxy 🍁 14:00, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

You would need to also revert the changes made in articles using the template, since a lot of eg. parameter names are now different. Would be best if you could figure out which change in particular is causing the side scroll - I'm not seeing that on my screen. With regards to length, there are a few changes involved, eg the timezone implementation which is quite a bit longer than the previous version. Nikkimaria (talk) 14:34, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
Think we should be removing parameters...not adding more. Will take screen shots when I have access to all my devices at home. Hard code into articles to avoid these disruptions?--Moxy 🍁 18:02, 19 September 2020 (UTC)
Removing the other name parameter has broken this function across all of the infoboxes. The info is still there it just isn't rendering. trackratte (talk) 23:09, 23 September 2020 (UTC)
This should be removed ASAP.....not sure people understand it's purpose.--Moxy 🍁 10:05, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
No, it should not. Other names are used within provinces or territories with special cultural heritage significance, or due to official recognition in certain jurisdictions like First Nations communities. Additionally, it is also there to provide the French name, which is co-official across Canada. In some territories like NWT and Nunavut, several First Nations languages have co-official status, which includes their names for them. 74.15.50.28 (talk) 13:11, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
See this is the problem....not a parameter for" indigenous terms" that are not Official and in some cases represent only 2 percent of the population. We need to cut back on the junk for the infobox that is not covered or sources in the articles.--Moxy 🍁 14:10, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
What about cases where the indigenous languages are official and/or spoken by a large percentage of the population, like in Yukon, NWT and Nunavut? What about the French language version of the provincial name, which has official status federally? In other instances, there are languages with special or recognized status as a part of cultural heritage, or have official status in certain indigenous communities, or are very common in certain large regions of the province (e.g. Cree language in northern Manitoba, northern Ontario, northern Quebec and Labrador). Also, the % of the population that speak it is not that relevant. What is more relevant is official status or recognition, and so should be included in the infobox. 74.15.50.28 (talk) 12:35, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Symbols RfC

What provincial/territorial symbols should be included in this infobox? 17:13, 4 October 2020 (UTC)

Current the supported parameters are |flower=, |tree=, |bird=. Other symbols have previously been added at individual articles, including |animal=, |dog=, |mineral=, |gem=, and |soil=. Opening this discussion so we can decide which ones should be supported and which should not. Nikkimaria (talk) 17:13, 4 October 2020 (UTC)