User talk:Viking1808

Welcome!

Hello, Viking1808, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! Edison (talk) 17:06, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

HMS FALCON in Danish Waters 1808

Please see my comments on the talk page of this article. Edison (talk) 17:06, 28 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Viking1801, As you can see, I have edited the Falcon article. In particular, I linked the London Gazette articles so that one can access them easily. Have a look at what I have done so you can see how to do it yourself. It actually is pretty easy. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:34, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Grinder

Rif Winfield, in an email, confirmed that there is no Admiralty record of any HMS Grinder. Nor is there any record of a Lieutenant Esther. So the mystery continues. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:34, 12 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Work in Progress: HMS Edgar at Grenaa 1810

British Ships : HMS Edgar, HMS Dictator, HMS Alonzo

A Danish report translates as follows [Den dansk-norske Sömagts historie 1700-1814 By Hans Garde. On p.552 Transcribed and translated from the original Danish – November 2010 by Viking1808]

"Because of the perceived rich possibilities of Prize money, consideration was given to show preference to those who had so recently captured the gunboat Grinder, so First Lieutenant Skibsted was awarded the command of the three luggers [named] Husaren, Løberen and Flink which had just recently been completed before they were being sent to the coast of Jutland. First Lieutenant N H Tuxen [biography in Danish], who in the previous year had captured the Brig Minx, became chief of Løberen and MaanedLieutenant [sub lieutenant?]Thaysen for Flink. But instead of taking Prizes, these three luggers were sadly to soon become the enemy’s booty. Already on 7th July they had been chased [hunted] by two British ships-of-the-line, Edgar and Dictator; they had sought their way into Grenaa where they were to load provisions and thereafter thought to travel at night northwards, hugging the land. To protect them, as long as they were at Grenaa, a company of troops who were in barracks there was called out, with some field guns down to the coast. But even while the provisioning was still going ahead, there came at sometime after midnight 10 enemy boats, some equipped with carronades, and manned by some 200 well-armed folk, to attack the [Danish] luggers. [The Danish crews] were heavily outnumbered by the three-to-one enemy force, and were also not so used to warfare – so it had been a good decision by Skibsted to seek assistance from the soldiers, and as soon as the enemy came into sight to bring his ships as close to the shore as the ground [depth of water] would allow. But unfortunately the luggers could not get near enough to land to be well supported by the soldiers. After the British had swamped our small ships with grape shot from the carronades, and with musket balls, - which could only be opposed with howitzers and small arms , as the luggers’ cannons could not be brought to bear on the enemy boats – they came alongside [the Danish boats] and now the troops on shore had to stop shooting for fear of hitting their own countrymen. So our valiant defence was soon overwhelmed. On the Danish side almost one third of the combatants were hors de combat in that six had been killed and Tuxen and Thaysen and 14 other men wounded. The British losses were given as one dead and three wounded. Despite the soldiers on the shore, the enemy refloated their prizes and took them out to the where the ships-of-the-line were anchored two miles away." [end of translation][a reference is given in the Danish as “Naval Chronicle XXIV 255-6” which is in English, and mostly repeats the London Gazette report]

The above report agrees in its essential details with a report in London Gazette dated 4 August 1810 in which "..a letter from Captain Pointz of HMS Edgar giving an account of the capture, on 7th of last month, off Granna (sic), of three Danish Gun-Boats, mounting each one long gun and four brass howitzers, with twentyeight men. They were boarded and brought out from under the fire of guns and musketry from the shore … " Prize money was eventually allocated as announced in London Gazette of 25 February 1812. The latter Gazette entry records the names of the Danish ships captured - somewhat mangled in reporting or translation as Husaren [The Hussar] is correctly translated, Løberen [The Runner] is not translated - just misspelt as Loberen, and Flink [Active or Clever] is misspelt as Flint.

The following translated from "Søkrigen i de dansk-norske farvande 1807-14" pages 260-261 by C F Wandell. On 8 July Skibsted had another fight with the English, but this time luck was not with him. His three small luggers were attacked by ten armed boats with 200 men, launched form two ships-of-the-line in the vicinity. The luggers could not avoid the overwhelming attack, which they had to fight. Lt.Skibsted, Lt.Tuxen, (midshipmen?)Teysen & Mortensen tried to bring their luggers as close to shore as possible, in the hope of receiving cover from the company of infantry and some cannon commanded by Captain Clausson, who had been sent from Grenaa, but that was no help. After receiving a rain of grapeshot, which was answered with howitzers and handguns, the luggers were boarded – three boats to each lugger, there was fighting with swords and pistols. Tuxen and Teysen and 16 men were wounded, and six killed. The Danes had to surrender, and 65 in total were brought aboard the ship-of-the-line Edgard [sic].

There is a question as to the date of the action. The first Gazette report is a letter clearly dated 7 August [but published on 4 August !!]saying the action was on "7th of last month" [i.e. 7th July]. 7th July is also mentioned by the Danish report, but of the gunboats being chased into Grenaa. In the later Gazette report the date of the action is given as September!

Comments and help welcomeViking1808 (talk) 14:49, 14 November 2010 (UTC) Viking1808 (talk) 15:57, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Notes above subsumed into Peter Nicolay Skibsted article Viking1808 (talk) 15:29, 24 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Saltholm & HMS Turbulent (1805)=

Hi VIking1808, I jst did some work on Turbulent, which led me to the Battle of Saltholm, where I did a little light editing. Given your nterst in the Gunboat War and things Danish, you might give them a look to see if there is anything you want to add. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:46, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the info re Tubulent and the battle of Saltholm. As you can see, I have added in the info. Acad Ronin (talk) 22:39, 14 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Lyngør

Hi Viking1808, Could you look at the Battle of Lyngør article if you have the time? Someone has added material from the Danish/Norwegian, some of which was not translated into English. I did what I could to make sense of it, but there are a couple of things I don't recognize. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 14:38, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Viking1808, I have figured out pretty much most of what was added. All that now remains is "og Digernes batteri". The batteri I understand. It is the rest I need. Also, now that I look at the article, I notice that it is not well-sourced. Do you know of any sources that we could add? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:26, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A Norwegian website appears to be the source translated into English for this article. "og Digernes batteri" translates as "and The Dams' battery" and is [I guess]the name of a fixed position on the dyke or dam , but could be a floating battery similar to those used elsewhere by the Danes. I will print out the Norwegian and slowly compare it with the current English version - in case of misunderstandings. In searching Google-danmark for "Digernes batteri" all that seems to come up are various versions of this same article in English or Norwegian. Viking1808 (talk) 10:36, 28 November 2010 (UTC)Viking1808 (talk)[reply]

Positively identified as a fixed position, at the end of the Okse Fjord, near Borøy. Tourists may now enjoy excursions in a gunboat and climb the hill to "Digernes battery". As a place name, it does not need translating.Viking1808 (talk) 14:58, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I have tried to make the fact a little clearer, in part by translating. See if it makes sense/is correct. On a more general note, I am delighted to see some Dano-Norwegian viewpoints and sources making it into the English wikipedia. We rely too much on British sources such as the London Gazette, the Naval Chronicle, James, Marshall, etc. The other side's take is welcome. As the English wikipedia is essentially the lingua franca or version, anything that makes it broader in its perspective is a good thing. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:41, 28 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Without local knowledge, I think you have probably hit on the best solution. It may be that the battery was placed on a headland which in Danish would have a name ending in "næs" similar to the English in Dungeness or Shoeburyness. A geographical feature similar to a nose (English) næse (Danish) or however the Norwegians describe it. A close search of google maps of the Lyngør area does not make anything any clearer.Viking1808 (talk) 15:41, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Grinder

Hi Viking1808, I saw the info on Grinder. Later this week, time permitting, I will work up a short article on the Action, with postscripts on the ship and Lt. S. Then if we do a story on the action at Grenaa, the stories can cross-reference each other, and the article on Edgar can refer to Grenaa. The Anholt island story can refer to the Grinder action article. These will still be short stories, and essentially orphans, but they will at least be on the record. Possibly some future Dano-Nordic/Gunboat War articles can link to them as well. I am trying to think of a way to find out what the action was that resulted in Grinder's re-capture, but don't want to contemplace going through issue after issue of the London Gazette. Any more info on the British vessels involved might be a help. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:48, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the above. I tried an extensive search of London Gazette hoping for prize money awarded years after the event, but if Grinder was there, I could not find it. Plenty of knife grinders, but not one ship of that name.Viking1808 (talk) 20:58, 29 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Various

Hi Viking1808,

1) As you can see, I have done some editing on HMS Seagull. If I can, I will do some more this evening when I have access to my copy of Winfield.
2) I have gone as far as I can with HMS Sheldrake and haven't been able to pin down any more about "Prize No. 5".
3) It looks like we are stuck with Grinder for the moment. That happens.

Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:33, 13 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Viking1808, I cleaned up the 1817 bit, did some other tidying, etc. Your way of citing the London Gazette was fine. I just prefer the template as it is more compact. I hadn't been working on Seagull, but all the changes I made were the matter of minutes. Let me encourage you to consider doing an article on the Lougen. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:50, 14 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Viking1808, Re Seagull - it looks ready to go. Just upload it so that your name is the one that registers the new article. You could, by the way, try to draft a DYK ("Did you know...") to draw attention to the article.

Improvements on the existing Najaden article would be welcome, but I still think an article on Lougen herself would be appropriate. Regards, 71.224.212.197 (talk) 19:57, 16 January 2011 (UTC) Sorry, I somehow got logged out between writing and signing. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:59, 16 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Talkback

Notes to myself

Thus [1] [a] ensuring that you also put the following text at the bottom of the article (but usually above the references):
and examples of entries

User:Viking1808/War in the North
User:Viking1808/Norwegian Navy 1814

Under Construction
User:Viking1808/HDMS Alsen
User:Viking1808/HDMS Kiel


User:Viking1808/Jochum Nicolay Müller
User:Viking1808/Seven brigs postscript e.g. en:Battle of Anholt

da:Steen Andersen Bille (viceadmiral)

da:Henrik_Gerner_(skibskonstruktør)

Notes

  1. ^ The vessel's name varies by account. Variants include: Admiral Juhl, Admiral Jawl, Admiral Juul, and Admiral Yorol.

John Perkins (Royal Navy officer)

Editted the Perkins page to match more closely what was said on the HMS Arab page. I hope you find the amendments more balanced. All the best, Corneredmouse (talk) 13:18, 17 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just saw you put Lougen article online. Nice job. Corneredmouse (talk) 11:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My research on Perkins was to write my own novel (which I have yet to have published). I have a "fan page" on Facebook. This morning I went through my records and found Perkins' log entry for the day of the Battle. I thought you might like to see it, and if you wish you can upload it to wikimedia commons and use it in the article. My fan page is here An Officer of Excellent Character. If you're not on facebook, I can email it to you but I'm not that good with wikimedia commons. All the best, Ian Corneredmouse (talk) 11:24, 18 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

hi Corneredmouse - No, I am not on facebook but a copy would be nice plus any titles of novels by you!! My Canadian friend had not heard of Perkins but now finds him fascinating as she needs a spy. I probably know less of wikimedia commons than you do, having only just found some pictures on it this week. I have just taken Jessen public, so we will see how others improve that one.Viking1808 (talk) 13:35, 19 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I shall upload it to wikimedia on Tuesday when I'm back in work. I'd happily talk to your friend about Perkins. As yet, I have only published a couple of articles, nothing particularly noteworthy. I'll link the photo to the page asap. Corneredmouse (talk) 08:05, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hope you like it. Corneredmouse (talk) 09:55, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Corneredmouse. That logbook looks great. I have a similar photo for HMS Falcon (1802) at the Battle of Zealand Point which is difficult to decipher, not copperplate like Perkins, and I have never been sure who owns the copyright to it (me, or Kew Archives). Also, I have done the rounds of Lougen-Arab-Jenkins-Jessen pages changing spellings from Key (my early useage) to Kay (Danish and your useage) just to be consistent. Modern American maps use "Cay".Viking1808 (talk) 17:19, 22 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Battle of Anholt

Hi Viking1808, I have come across some of the work you have done on the Grinder article. I have made some changes to the Anholt article. If you have further information to add, please let me know. It appears that you have consulted the muster for the stone frigate HMS Anholt. The Royal Navy in all probability would have had a small complement of men on Anholt, and I would be intereted to see what else you have found out. Regards Keith H99 (talk) 23:26, 7 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Keith H99 - The Grinder article was, like many on Wikipedia, a collaboration by several interested parties before it went public on Wikipedia. I have forwarded your comment to he who researched the muster lists at the (British) National Archives at Kew as quoted in the References.Viking1808 (talk) 17:29, 8 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Keith H99 - The Muster Books for Anholt were consulted to get some of the info required for the Grinder query - looking for a name that would identify the commander of the Grinder (originally reported as Lieutenant Esther or Ester). Other info came from a letter written by the commander of the garrison.(see references 5 & 6 on the Grinder article.) Muster books of course, record the presence of every person on board a ship, but it may be interesting to note that the Anholt muster books not only give the names of all the navy and marine personnel, but also the Danish inhabitants – presumably for purposes of victualling.I hope this helps clarify matters Viking1808 (talk) 16:37, 9 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion for the introduction at the Danish Wiki.

"Viking1808 er en englænder med interesse for engelsk krigsførelse i danske farvande. Beklager hvis mit danske ikke er særlig godt. Det er bedst at stille spørgsmål til mig på den engelske Wikipedia en:User talk:Viking1808." --Regards, Necessary Evil (talk) 18:30, 27 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

A barnstar for you!

WikiProject Ships Barnstar
I'm very impressed at your article at HMS Grinder (1855). Well referenced, interesting, and altogether rather impressive. The Cavalry (Message me) 22:32, 25 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Falsen

Viking

Good work with the nascent Falsen article. If I may give a little un-asked for advice, it would be to include template:persondata and an infobox in biographical articles. I've done so in your draft article, so you can see how I've done it. There are some comments in there to remind you, but you'll need to remove the wp:hidden marks when you go to article space (thus getting the persondata to work) and also remove the first colon from the categories. If this doesn't make sense, just ask me to explain at my talk page.

Do you have an exact date of birth for Falsen? Yours, Shem (talk) 08:58, 1 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Shem - You have been busy! Many thanks for the above which I will get to later. (Advice is always welcome here). I have the date of birth on a Topsøe disc, plus parentage and more. Also, your removal of the VC section from HMS Grinder (1855) does not surprise me. Regards Viking1808 (talk) 11:51, 1 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Another question - was his surname "de Falsen" or "Falsen"? It makes a difference for sorting, among other things. Shem (talk) 21:51, 1 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Danes (Topsøe-Jensen reference) sort him as Falsen. There is a page named Falsen on Danish wiki that summarises the family (in Danish, naturally). Our man's link is still red there. Viking1808 (talk) 05:53, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Beer

Viking, thanks for the beer. Good luck with the editing, and if you ever want a hand, just ask. Shem (talk) 16:53, 3 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

HMS Grinder (1809)

Hi Viking1808, do you happen to know if any of the Danish sources give Grinder's burthen? It would be great if we could get supporting evidence that the size of the Grinder (tender) of 1832 is consistent with the gunboat Grinder. As I read the Orlogsmuseet entry, I don't see any mention of size. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 12:54, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nothing immediate comes to mind. If I had seen it, I think I would have noted it. If we had access to a naval architect, perhaps he could "design" a sailing boat for 28 crew and armament as stated. I agree we need to try to find a thread linking 1811 with 1832. I believe Benea's source for 1832 says "Grinder - tender - of uncertain origin" (College?) Will keep digging! Viking1808 (talk) 16:51, 4 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Steen Andersen Bille

This query has been aimed at Acad Ronin, Shem1805, Necessary Evil and Saddhiyama – but if others come across it, please join in.

I probably need some help and advice here. Consider three Wiki-pages in English concerning the various persons called Steen Andersen Bille

  • Steen Andersen Bille - a disambiguation page that tries to sort out the entire clan from the 1600s. Family Tree to present this info better is now in place

Can we name or rename such pages similar to ships, where the launch or birth date is included in the title, as I have now done? There are too many Admirals in this clan to differentiate otherwise, I think. Have I got the balance right between Danish and English thought? Suggesting some of the British were pirates? There seem to be two ranks between Captain and Rear Admiral in the Danish Navy. If one is commodore, what is the other? Viking1808 (talk) 16:06, 2 December 2011 (UTC) Revised Viking1808 (talk) 18:12, 11 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Flakfortet

Hi Viking, I wandered away from ships for a while and ended up working on fortifications. In doing so, I came across the article on Flakfortet. What I was unable to find was any sources on the fort's original armament. Do you know of anything? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:58, 21 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Acad - Saltholm Reb translates as the reef near Saltholm, and the Danish Wiki article describes it as a flak = sand ground (or shoal?).
A Danish website gives, amongst the rest, At the start it was armed with four 29cm howitzers M/1910, six 21 cm canon M/1913 og four 75 mm rapid-firing canon. Under the security forces (??) the fort was reinforced with one 75 mm , two 47 mm ballonkanoner and two 8 mm. recoil weapons. Further installed were four 150 cm searchlights og one 90 cm searchlight for use against aerial vehicles. (aircraft, zeppelins?) The Fort was manned by 550 men. If you need more, I will look into it further on return from a computerless journey starting tomorrow.
Regarding our various Danish/Norwegian brigs, I have this minute categorised them under 1814 in Norway but I am not sure this is correct procedure. There is a wiki article Royal Norwegian Navy that covers virtually all I was trying to cover on my userpage, so it may just be a case of editing and linking. Viking1808 (talk) 21:42, 21 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the info. You can see how I have incorporated it into the Flakfortet article, which is now as complete as I can, or choose, to make it. I saw the 1814 in Norway category and browsed, which led me to making a few minor, stylistic changes to the article on the Invasion of Hvaler. I wouldn't worry about the categorization. 1814 was a pivotal year. There is a lot to be said for multiple categories and links so that people can find all sorts of things they didn't know existed. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:26, 22 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Resource request help

Hello, Viking1808. I have received a request for help on my talk page regarding information about what seems to be an officer in the Dano-Norwegian navy during the Great Northern War called Carlson or Carlsen who died in 1713. I can see you have a link to a pdf-version of Topsøe-Jensen & Marquards Officerer i den dansk-norske søetat, however the link doesn't work for me. I would appreciate it if you could look up the name to see if he is mentioned there. Any other information regarding him would also be very welcome. Cheers. --Saddhiyama (talk) 21:22, 5 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The answer comes in two parts! The officer's name was Christian Thomesen Carl - no son or sen on the Carl. I can try to attach a screen print of the entry in Topsøe-Jensens book to a private email, or translation to English (given a little time) if required.
Part 2 of the answer is more strategic. The reference book was made available for download in 2011 by Friends of the Danish Naval Museum, but the link went dead a few months after. The original link was posted on Balsveds Flådehistorie website forum - and that forum is now closed due to repeated vandalism. Hard back copies are listed at various Danish libraries. I hold a copy on two discs that I was lucky enough to make while the download was still available. Perhaps I could duplicate the discs if some editor needs them and would send me his ordinary postal address.

Viking1808 (talk) 10:08, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Further, hard copies of Topsøe-Jensen's book are listed as available from Ballerup and Copenhagen libraries in Denmark, National Library of Sweden in Stockholm, and also in France and in Massachusets, and the Library of Congress in Washington DC. I am reliably informed that the downloadable link was removed after problems of copyright arose. Also see User talk:Saddhiyama#Carlson Viking1808 (talk) 13:53, 6 February 2013 (UTC) revised Viking1808 (talk) 14:26, 6 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The Guidance Barnstar
I meanwhile found many additional Danish sources on Carl(son) which I consider pretty authorative (Barfod, Jørgen Henrik; Carstensen, William August; Garde, Hans Georg). However, of those only Garde has a thorough documentation of his career, and the Lützow article in Topsøe-Jensen & Marquard is the only one revealing his ancestry and marriages, so it turned out to be the most valuable one. Moreover, I would likely be still searching for any Danish record if you had not been so kind to respond and come up with the Lützow article. So thank you again for the scan! The article about Christian Thomesen Carl is now live, and assesses and combines the Danish and German narratives. Skäpperöd (talk) 16:47, 9 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Jean Kindelan

Hello. I'm happy to collaborate in Jean Kindelan article. So, I just include information in it. I did not do it before because I was busy with other things. Regards.--Isinbill (talk) 21:27, 28 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

¡muchas gracias! keep it up! Viking1808 (talk) 09:58, 29 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

June 2013

Hello, I'm BracketBot. I have automatically detected that your edit to HMS Seagull (1805) may have broken the syntax by modifying 3 "[]"s. If you have, don't worry, just edit the page again to fix it. If I misunderstood what happened, or if you have any questions, you can leave a message on my operator's talk page.

Thanks, BracketBot (talk) 08:30, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Admiral (Australia)
G'day! Thanks for your email, and for the effort you have gone to - very much appreciated.

Shem and I are talking about the admiral's command flag (File:Flag of Admiral - Royal Navy.svg) and the fact that nearly every method of displaying the flag (EXCEPT "gallery") puts a border around it, but "gallery" does not, hence giving "a rather odd white on white effect". I responded that once upon a time I found a way to get "gallery" to use a border, but now I can't remember how, (or work out how), to do it.

Again, many thanks for your help. Pdfpdf (talk) 06:08, 3 August 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Alfredo Kindelán

The hatnote you keep adding to the Alfredo Kindelán article is being used improperly which is why I have removed it twice. However I recognise you want the Kindelán article to be linked so as a compromise I've added a quick sentence about his membership of the family to the lead paragraph. I really don't want to get bogged down in an edit war about this but a disambiguation hatnote is inappropriate in this case. Thanks. Keresaspa (talk) 02:21, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Noted Viking1808 (talk) 07:53, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 14:23, 24 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Zomba Site Vandalised

In my opinion there is some vandalism on the Zomba page, put there by an unnamed editor. I deleted two sentences this morning and note that they have been put back again. The sentences are in very poor English and appear to be spoof. A second opinion would be most welcome. Viking1808 (talk) 18:09, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Those edits are vandalism, keep getting reverting them but don't revert them more than 3 times as per WP:3RR. If they keep vandalising then report them at WP:AIV. Thanks, Tom29739 [talk] 18:25, 7 February 2016 (UTC).[reply]
Thanks Viking1808 (talk) 18:33, 7 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
196.216.11.159 continues to insert almost the same rubbish to this Zomba, Malawi article. I have reverted it three times, most recently today, but get lost if I try to understand what Wikipedia should do next. Can you take over, Tom29739? Viking1808 (talk) 17:48, 12 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
You should try and discuss the edits with 196.216.11.159 on the article talk page at Talk:Zomba, Malawi as per WP:DISCUSS. If the editor continues to revert without discussing on the talk page, then report them at WP:AIV and say that they continue to add the bad content without discussion and that you have tried to discuss it with them. Good luck, Tom29739 [talk] 18:38, 12 February 2016 (UTC).[reply]

HMS Fridericksteen

Hi Viking1808, currently there is a request for discussion on the talk page for HMS Fridericksteen about how to name the article. Your input would be welcome. What would also be welcome is any info you could add to her Danish history. She was launched as Friderichssteen in 1800, and the Royal Navy seized her at Copenhagen in 1807 and took her into service. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:17, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I had noted the Danish history was rather thin! It may take me some time, but I will see what I can do. Viking1808 (talk) 17:37, 6 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Somewhat unrelated to the ship, we have the fortress of Fredriksten on the Norwegian-Swedish border, immediately south of Halden, inland on the southeast end of Oslo fjord. This article is in Danish on Danish Wikipedia, but it appears there is no article about the 1800 frigate in question, no matter how one spells its name. Viking1808 (talk) 16:51, 9 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Welcome to The Wikipedia Adventure!

Hi Viking1808! We're so happy you wanted to play to learn, as a friendly and fun way to get into our community and mission. I think these links might be helpful to you as you get started.

-- 16:38, Monday, October 10, 2016 (UTC)

Mission 1 Mission 2 Mission 3 Mission 4 Mission 5 Mission 6 Mission 7
Say Hello to the World An Invitation to Earth Small Changes, Big Impact The Neutral Point of View The Veil of Verifiability The Civility Code Looking Good Together

Topsoe...

Hi Viking1808, you mentioned that your copy of vol. 1 of the Topsoe.. book had become corrupted. I looked in my files and find that I have a still OK copy. However, it is 54MB in size and so I cannot email it. Do you have a Dropbox or other such account where I could upload it? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:25, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Wonderful you still have a copy of Volume I, but No!I am not into drop boxes. If you identify a page you need translating though, you can > "Print Screen" >Paste on to a Word Doc >Save and then send me the saved Word.doc attached to an email. Not too cumbersome.
Regarding LST - you suggested Læst (Danish) or Last (New Norwegian) which I read with interest. This old measurement is both vague and variable, depending on the type of cargo can be a weight or a volume which is determined by the character of the cargo (in one instance equal to 14,400 herring!) So of little use to us here.
You have noticed a flurry of edits on the Battle of Zealand Point as I managed to get to Kew Archives and read some logbooks. A few more edits to come from my notes on Nassau when time permits. Viking1808 (talk) 17:28, 31 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Couple of things

Hi Viking, I looked at the info on the Dano-Norwegian navy in 1808. Great stuff, but I don't yet know what I can do with it. It might warrant an article by itself, one that would focus on the aftermath of the second Battle of Copenhagen. In the meantime, could you look at the article I have just finished about Protector (1779 frigate). The Danish East India Company (DEIC) owned her for a few years. Is there anything in your Danish sources about her? I have found all that I could in English sources. Also, do you know where there is a public domain image of the DEIC's flag? I would like to add it to the ship box. It looks like the Daneborg, but with slight modifications. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 01:57, 30 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Noted. If the Norwegian Navy 1808 comes to anything it might hang on the Gunboat War (?) I'll go hunting for the Protector and the East Indian Dannebrog (note spelling). Viking1808 (talk) 08:13, 30 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
See Section 2.3 of Flag of Denmark. It appears that trading ships to the East Indies at that time used the split-flag when past the equator, which is pictured there. I did find one Danish East Asiatic Company flag but it dates from the 1897.
AHA!! From the Danish ship database ( http://www.orlogsbasen.dk/Skibdk.htm ) there is only one ship Hussaren which initially gives very little information viz. Danish Trading Ship shipyard and year of construction unknown. No models found. But when you go further, clicking on the word Vis a strange sketch come up which can be enlarged. Written in old Danish on the sketch is the following (translated by Viking1808)
Drawing of an iron galley (i.e. ship's galley) and a distillation machine to convert ( or sweeten) salt water to fresh. Surveyed in 1789 (or 1781, perhaps) on a frigate come from England which shall be used for particular East Indian voyages called Hussaren
text on desalination now added to ship's article
I do not know if the Danish Naval Museum would allow free use of this image - we might need to ask! Hussaren is obviously your Hussar/Protector(1779) and the date is not far out. Viking1808 (talk) 23:06, 30 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not to worry. Long out of copyright. Besides, we drive (minimal) traffic to their website. Acad Ronin (talk) 20:49, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Not this ship! (1) HUSAREN, lugger (1810-1810) or (2) HUSAREN, lugger (1812-1815) no further information (ref: Balsved and SorteRegistrand) Viking1808 (talk) 18:39, 1 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

POWs

Hi Viking1808, I unfortunately know nothing. However, I know someone who may know something, and who is usually quick to reply and share knowledge. I will try him and revert. As for WP being useful - I think people make too much fuss about the "notable"/"important" articles, in part because they don't understand the delight people feel when they look for something obscure, and discover that there is some info. A few days ago we had a guest for American Thanksgiving. When I remarked that I worked on vessels of the late 18th-early 19th centuries, he remarked that an ancestor of his had survived a wreck on Palao and on the return voyage to England had befriended a local who came with them, Prince Lee Boo. I suddenly exclaimed, "Antelope. I worked on that article". We found it and I was able to add some more info re his great,great,...,grandfather. I think our greatest contribution is to the genealogists and the historians trying to nail down a point, rather than to someone looking up "Norway", or "Paris". Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:48, 3 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

User:Viking1808/Fortuna (Captured Ships)

Fortuna

Hi Viking1808: First, let me wish you a Happy New Year, and lots of research luck in the coming year. Second, re Fortuna: I think you should upload it under a title such as "List of ships named Fortuna that the British Royal Navy captured (xxxx-xxxx)". I find such lists useful (see Britannia (ship)) as a place to park info that doesn't yet, or perhaps ever, warrant a full article. For instance, you may find info in the Danish ships database that you could add, such as burthen and launch year. It also serves to create links that may "de-orphan" some other article. Third, could you please give Æolus (1797 ship) a quick look. I tried your link to the Danish ship name database, but found nothing. Still, you may have some idea. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:40, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the advice. Now your question:-

Æ is the the third last letter of the Danish Alphabet - so Æolus is virtually the last ship on the Danish List!

Technical drawings can be found - but they are not loaded on the system. Some measurements are quoted.
Navn --- Skibstype --- Nationalitet --- Hændelse --- År --- Konstruktør vis

Æolus - Merchant Ship - Danish - Begun 1781 - Fully Fitted 1783 - Henrik Gerner

No models found with the name Æolus

The date seems to be 14 years out. Only one Æolus is listed. Viking1808 (talk) 01:56, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
More on this Æolus - Although the technical drawings are not available to us online, the notes are (in a mix of German and Danish). This ship was being built in Apenrade (German name for the Danish town now called Åbenrå - simplified spelling AAbenraa - on the SouthEast Coast of Jutland) for a Hr Butz in anticipation of a voyage to the West Indies. She was to be armed with 14 pieces of 6lb cannon. The drawing measurements are given, but only one measurement for the ship itself - a waterline of 107ft 9 inches.(Danish feet and inches, obviously, but not that much different) if a proposed heightening of the ship to three decks for an EAST Indies voyage was to occur. Two drawings are dated 11/10/1782 and 03/05/1783, the other drawings being undated.

An interesting ship, whether yours or not! Viking1808 (talk) 10:51, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Viking1808: That is marvelous. I am treating the two vessels as one and the same. We can always fix it if we get better info, but for now it all fits together. Many thanks. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 13:57, 2 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Henrik Gerner

Hi Viking1808: thanks for the lead. I have put in a one-line description and a link to the Danish article in the Aeolus article. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:09, 9 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Database

Hi Viking1808: That database is an superb find. Please add it to the resource list on your talk page so I can easily find it again when I need to. Given the number of Danish ships the Brits captured, it will be a long-term project to add info to existing articles, let alone create new ones. Many thanks. Acad Ronin (talk) 12:39, 12 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the database, the info for Aeolus is not consistent with the British vessel. The Danish Aeolus seems to small, and there is no history after she left for the West Indies. However, no other Danish Aelus fits either. Bit of a puzzle.Acad Ronin (talk) 18:07, 14 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Diadem

I have added what I could find from Winfield and a couple of other sources, but they don't establish much except that she was by the time of young Anders, a troopship and so ideal for ferrying large numbers of people, such as ex-POWs. The world of tracing people is not one I know much about, but I would suggest that you investigate joining Ancestry.com. The genealogists often have great info, and sometimes one person ties in with another. They probably also have facility for tossing out a question; prhaps someone will know something. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:07, 14 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Fortuna

Hi Viking1808, I have just done HMS Cockatrice (1781). In 1807 she captured a Danish Fortuna. Can you link it to your list? Regards, AET

Already there! 30 August 1807 captured by Cockatrice (J B Balderston, Commander) and Plover (Philip Browne, Commander)(Danish)[19] I will check link to your HMS Cockatrice. Thanks Viking1808 (talk) 19:22, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Super. Thanks. Increasing the number of incoming and outgoing links will discourage the deletionists that plague Wikipedia. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 21:57, 21 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dorothea

Hi Viking1808, Have had no luck in finding a 200-ton brig named Dorothea in either of the two Danish websites. She was described as an old, captured Danish vessel. She is noteworthy in that the American inventor Robert Fulton exploded a floating mine under her in September 1805 as a demonstration of the value of his design of such "torpedoes" as they were then known. I can't find any mention of the capture of a Danish brig Dorothea in either the London Gazette, or Lloyd's List. If I could just get a credible launch year and a little more info I could create a stubby article that would at least preserve her memory. Regards,Acad Ronin (talk) 01:19, 25 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

No quick joy! I am thinking the ship may have been (say) Anna Dorothea, or any other name prefix to Dorothea. I will go trawling, but it may take some time to find a candidate! Viking1808 (talk) 08:09, 25 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
There was a (Danish) Dorothea (1715), but no further details whatsoever. Too early, I think. Viking1808 (talk) 08:48, 25 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Search www.skippere.dk for Dorthea Viking1808 (talk) 09:05, 25 January 2017 (UTC) nb ship name spelling[reply]

https://www.shipindex.org/ships/dorthea a subcription service - Dorthea too late for the 1805 tests Viking1808 (talk) 00:14, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/95861051/ for info and drawings of early Fulton designs

Your offer

It looks very interesting - your offer is much appreciated - give me some time to think through the most likely items to be of interest - thanks again JarrahTree 08:53, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Dorothea & Seawar Museum

Hi Viking1808,

  • I couldn't get that site you emailed me to give me anything more than the Dorothea Ellen. The 1790 Dorothea, as best I could make out from your screen shot, looks too small. Also, I suspect that the Dorothea the Brits blew up was probably newly captured, and that's where I can't find anything in the LG, Lloyd's List, or some of the other discussion in books of the rial of Dulton's torpedo. (Again, all the books say is a that she was an old, 200-ton Danish brig. Cambrian's Dorothea was a recapture - she had been a prize to a French privateer and Cambrian simply caught Dorothea before the prize crew could get her to a French port. The info here comes was included in the letter that Capt. Legge wrote describing the capture of the privateer. Thanks for your efforts. I think this is going to be one of those things where we may someday find an answer by accident.
  • I saw your message to JarrahTree. I looked on the Seawar Museum site and found a picture of the conning tower of a Brit submarine from WWI. The interesting issue is that the Museum's info does not agree with the WP page British E-class submarine, or the page HMS E50. I suspect the Museum description of the tower has a typo, writing 1916 for 1918, and has a slightly different date, 28 Jan for 1 Feb. I left a query note on the talk page for the "British E-class submarine". I also noticed a wrong English translation elsewhere on the Museum's website. Do you think they would be offended if I wrote to them pointing out these things? Also, any idea if they would be willing to put their picture of the conning tower into the public domain so that we could add it to the "HMS E50" article?

Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:44, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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John Templeton Mitchell

I've had a look at your draft article. The place where you found the "Personal Life" section appears to have lifted it word for word from the Official Encyclopaedia of Bridge, as it appears identically in my copy! So if you put the main points into your own words, and give the OEoB as the reference, you should be fine. Mitchell's biography appears on page 695 of the 5th edition, published in 1994, ISBN 0-943855-48-9. I've also just done a search to see if there's already anything about him on Wikipedia, and found that he's mentioned several times in the article Edwin C. Howell (whist and bridge player). JH (talk page) 19:02, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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Vandalism

I find it difficult to see how to report this

Sabina Bano love status Islamic===Guinea-Bissau===

on the Ramsar Convention and List of Ramsar wetlands of international importance. I have reverted some, but have certainly missed at least the above. Viking1808 (talk) 11:46, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

This has been fixed already. –Ammarpad (talk) 16:28, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Henrik Lorenz Fisker moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Henrik Lorenz Fisker, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Wikipedia). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Wikipedia's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. ~~Cheers~~Mgbo120 19:22, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

superceded and moved to article space by others overnight! more constructive. self = Viking1808 (talk) 14:41, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Elefanten/Elephanten

Is the Danish ship name "Elefanten" or "Elephanten"?

{{HDMS|Elefanten}}, the name of various Royal Danish Navy ships, including {{ship|HDMS|Elephanten|1702|4}}

in Elephant (disambiguation). I'm just curious. - Donald Albury 16:58, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am just working on the Danish Elephant disambiguation page. Spelling can be awkward - it seems all early ships were spelt Elefanten, later Elephanten, and nowadays Norwegian seems to have simplified it to Elefanten, and also the Danes! The suffix -en is the definite article in Danish. It all depends where you look! Any advice or further comment always welcome! Viking1808 (talk) 17:11, 10 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I spotted your comments on Acad Ronin's talk page. The Threedecks website may be of use researching Danish Navy ships. Mjroots (talk) 17:04, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the lead to Threedecks. I was aware of this website but have never used it, as I tend to delve into the Danish, and sometimes Norwegian, sources. Viking1808 (talk) 17:14, 22 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

i surely hope if my english was more skillful

if i do not know how to say a certain word or word in english, then is it allowed to help yourself in using google translate? i know that some websites are against rules, is that so? (i'm really right now so if there is no permission then please avoid punishment.Atlantic Channel (talk) 21:30, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Atlantic Channel - I am probably the wrong person to be asked this question, so I will ping the editor who welcomed you to Wikipedia a few weeks ago. I do know that it is very difficult to write a good article in any language other than your mother tongue! (I can read Danish fluently, but I would get a native Dane to translate anything I wrote for Danish Wikipedia otherwise it comes out very badly). Remember to quote your sources for every statement you make. Google translate can be good to quickly translate anything into your native language, but be aware that it can make mistakes.

@John of Reading: John of Reading -Can you help? I am out of my depth here! Viking1808 (talk) 22:11, 17 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Viking1808: Viking, if you look at John's talk page at the top of the page, you will see that John is inactive. Sorry, bad to bother her, because I did not read the notice for the first time. I wonder who else can help?Atlantic Channel (talk) 00:49, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You could perhaps try Wikipedia:Help desk Good luck Viking1808 (talk) 06:47, 18 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

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Baltic - Reval 1726

  • The article Baltic Fleet (United Kingdom) contains some information about the blockade of the Russians in Reval (Tallin) in 1726 from English sources.
  • The new article Michael Bille (1680-1756) contains some information from the Danish point of view, Michael Bille being the Danish admiral on the scene. The Danish reference Topsøe-Jensen contains much more material on the leaky, dilapidated Danish ships and the questions posed by the Danish Admiralty in the aftermath.

My source has the dates of the blockade from 26 June to 1 October (both fleets leaving at same time), whereas the Baltic Fleet article states to 1 November.There does not appear to be any article dedicated to this portion of the Great Northern War and succeeding years.
Is there room here for a new article, or corrections/additions to an existing one?
I am pinging the two editors who appear to have the greatest interest in the Baltic Fleet (United Kingdom) article. Any takers? Viking1808 (talk) 11:33, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Navops47 and Lyndaship:
If you feel that an article would be beneficial by all means create one. Lyndaship (talk) 13:00, 7 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Note to self. The Danish information has now been added as a Reference and Note to the relevant section of Baltic Fleet (United Kingdom). The accuracy of the article's statement that the fleet stayed to 1 November is, to my mind, dubious. Viking1808 (talk) 12:26, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You may like to see Naval Blockade of Reval (1726) now up and running. See also the talk page. Improvements always welcome. Viking1808 (talk) 09:33, 4 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Navops47 and Lyndaship:}

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Your submission at Articles for creation: Naval Blockade of Reval (1726) has been accepted

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Danish Ships on the Hoogli (1808)

The seven Danish ships captured by the British on the Hoogli in January 1808 as named in London gazette [2] Only one is clearly listed at marcussen's website

  • Waldemar
  • Elizabeth
  • Freya
  • Holstein = Holsten (II) record card. Frigate of foreign, ie non-Danish, construction renamed (from Warren Hastings to Holsten when bought by Danish EIC at Isle de France, as a replacement for the earlier Danish ship, recorded as Holsten (I) which was condemned in 1805 at Isle de France (Mauritius) See Warren Hastings (1802 EIC ship) - this info to be edited into existing ship article.
  • Maria
  • Mary
  • Nymphe
  1. ^ {{efn|Sanders had commanded HMS Falcon in the Baltic the previous year
  2. ^ London Gazette Issue 16982 Page 219 dated 7 February 1815

This is a sort of memo to myself to see if anything of interest transpires, but you (Acad Ronin) may know something more!? Thanks for your recent edit to Danish East India Company

I have been doing a little looking, but the problem is the names are too common. Even the Danish ones are common Danish names.Acad Ronin (talk) 00:38, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kongen af Assianthe (1797 ship)

Hi Viking1808: the article Kongen af Assianthe (1797 ship) is now up. If you find anything in Danish sources that you can add, please do. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 00:38, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps this company trading in timber and shipping. Based in Arendal from 1797, they had 17 ships by 1830. Not specifically your Kongen af Assianthe but perhaps. If there is any reference to Dedekam in your material this will be them. (Six other shipping firms based in Arendal - along with the ships they owned - can be found at here but they are all much later than 1800. Viking1808 (talk) 17:29, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Acad Ronin:

Thanks for this. I have added the info to the ship's article, qualified with a "definite maybe". I have found nothing in Dgnlish sources, which is not surprising Perhaps someday someone will find something in some archive, perhaps of Norwegian newspapers. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:06, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Two new little references you may wish to work into the ship article
Thomas Fasting, senior Lieutenant and commander of the schoooner Iresine (the station ship in the Danish West Indies in 1799 and 1800) returned to Denmark in October 1800 on board Kongen af Ashanti.[1]

Frederik Christopher Just Gehardt Trampe sailed with the frigate Thetis from Madiera on 17 August 1799 to the Danish West Indies. Promoted to senior Lieutanant on 29 November 1799, he transferred to the schooner Den Aarvaagne when Thetis left that station, but Trampe was ordered home (to Denmark) on 12 June 1800 by the first available means. On 24 October he departed for Europe on the Danish merchant ship Kongen af Ashanthi (sic)[2]
@Acad Ronin: Viking1808 (talk) 15:39, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for these. I have added them to the article. Acad Ronin (talk) 16:54, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nidelven

I just got sidetracked and prepared the article HDMS Nidelven. Do you happen to know how many Lougen-class brigs were launched? I have identified seven. Also, I couldn't find the Naval Museum's card for Nidelven. Do you by any chance have a pdf of it? If you do, could you send it to me. I would like to add the info to the articles. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk)

NINE brigs designed by E W Stibolt, mostly built after his death. (but were they all Lougen class?). There is no record card for Nidelven st Skibregister. Previously, we have recorded SIX Lougen class at HDMS Lougen (1791)
From the Royal Danish Naval Museum with the language set at Danish > DATABASE > AVANCEREDE > comes a search field. At Konstruktør, enter Stibolt. At Skibstype choose Brig/brigantine. At Datering enter a target date (say 1800) plus/minus 15 years. >Søg

If problems, come back Viking1808 (talk) 07:58, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Also of interest, perhaps

I cannot place watery names against the other brigs. Viking1808 (talk) 11:01, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Acad Ronin:

Hans Michael Kaas (1760 - 1799) son of Frederik Christian K. (1725) (i.e. the earlier F C K) . See HDMS Hvide Ørn (1798).
He captained Nidelven in 1796, cruising the norwegian coast to hinder the breaking of neutrality rules. (that's all).[3]

Viking1808 (talk) 22:23, 28 October 2020 (UTC) @Acad Ronin:[reply]

Thanks. I have added the info to the Nidelven article. Acad Ronin (talk) 23:24, 28 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

EUREKA! My original copy of Topsøe-Jensen was not searchable for text, although .pdf. I have just discovered that the current downloadable version can indeed be searched, so "Nidelven" yielded a treasure trove of officers who had sailed in her. This will make any future tasks much easier - just pass them my way! @Acad Ronin: Viking1808 (talk) 19:31, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed and wondered how you had found the additional stuff. That's great. I don't have any Dano-Norwegian Navy articles on my radar currently, but when I find something, I will let you know. Also, if you start some where you need the Winfield/UK input, pease let me know. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:40, 1 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Topsøe-Jensen Vol 1 p356
  2. ^ Topsøe-Jensen Vol 2 p629
  3. ^ Topsøe-Jensen Vol 1 p 710

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Userboxes

Hey. I was looking at your userpage and noticed your userboxes show the whole template, rather than the Transclusion. To fix this, just copy this to the top of your user page. Best Skjoldbro (talk) 14:48, 7 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

{{userpage}}
{{Boxboxtop}}
{{User plays bridge}}
{{User enjoys bridge}}
{{User WPCB}}
{{User WikiProject Denmark}}
{{Boxboxbottom}}

@Skjoldbro: Tak for det! I tend to copy things I do not understand, but it does look neater. Perhaps there should be a box for "Enjoys watching Matador once a year." Viking1808 (talk) 16:25, 7 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Så lidt. If you want more userboxes, I would suggest looking here. Værsgo ;) {{User:UBX/Matador}}. Skjoldbro (talk) 09:13, 8 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Royal Danish Naval Museum - ship list corrupted

It appears that all the links from the Danish List of ships [1] to individual ship records are corrupted. The following error message appears

Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80004005' [Microsoft][ODBC Microsoft Access Driver] Cannot open database '(unknown)'. It may not be a database that your application recognizes, or the file may be corrupt. /visskib.asp, line 102

The problem is not unique to Wikipedia as entering the URL manually gives the same error message.
Does anybody have a solution? Viking1808 (talk) 17:53, 9 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Do you know if the Danish museum website has problems? All Danish ships including our most recent HDMS Elephanten (1703) have problematic links at http://www.orlogsbasen.dk/Skibdk.htm @Skjoldbro, Acad Ronin, and Necessary Evil: Viking1808 (talk) 22:45, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I don't go there often enough to know. I just got to the database without any problem using the URL above couldn't get any further. (Got the same error message. That suggests that the problem is with the database. Is there anyway of emailing to someone at the database? Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 23:17, 10 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have sent an email (asking for help) to Danish National Museum (post@natmus.dk). Receipt has been automatically acknowledged. An alternative email address on Orlogsmuseet website fails to deliver!
Viking1808 (talk) 08:16, 11 January 2021 (UTC) @Skjoldbro, Acad Ronin, and Necessary Evil:[reply]

A very quick reply from the Danish museums, unfortunately does not move us forward!
"Thank you for your inquiry. The website is no longer available. You should instead look at https://www.navalhistory.dk/Danish/Flaadelister/Periode/1945-2XXX.htm and http://www.orlogsbasen.dk/enkel.htm Med venlig hilsen / Best regards"

The latter link leads into ... Skibdk.htm, as before and then the error message comes up when a ship name is clicked. There are (to me) new additional lists of British or French or Swedish ships taken into the Danish navy, but again click on the ship name and the error message comes up.
I have replied to Copenhagen with these concerns - I think we at Wikipedia will just have to be patient. I hate to think how many HDMS articles have (temporarily dead) links to their design details. Any constructive thoughts? Viking1808 (talk) 14:33, 11 January 2021 (UTC) @Skjoldbro, Acad Ronin, and Necessary Evil:[reply]

UPDATE: On 10 March 2021 the site was up and working again - for all of five minutes! Perhaps it will soon return. Viking1808 (talk) 18:30, 10 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

UPDATE: 9 May 2021 - the site and links are all working today!! Long may it continue For info @Skjoldbro, Acad Ronin, and Necessary Evil: Viking1808 (talk) 14:18, 9 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Lorentz Fisker

I found a miniature portrait drawing of Fisker by Bertel Thorvaldsen for your article on him. It was created onboard the frigate Thetis when Thorvaldsen moved to Rome in 1796. There are some details about their encounter here in case yoy want to add something on it. I don't want to mess up the nice presentation with my Denglish, so I will leace it to you to decide if something should be included in the article.Ramblersen2 (talk) 18:14, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks for this portrait. Some of the info will sit well in Thorvaldsens article, and a little in Fisker's. I will read it more carefully before taking action. mvH Viking1808 (talk) 18:46, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Ramblersen2:

Crazy Bot? False links!

In April 2019 I started the article HNoMS Axel Thorsen (1810), which ship was lost at sea in 1872.
In the past three days I have started receiving notifications of links made to this article from (at least ) five ships (vis USS Polaris, Fanny Nicholson, SS Russia, HMS Lord Clyde and HMS Royal Alfred) none of which have anything in common with Axel Thorsen other than they sank or were damaged in 1872. All seem to be listed in List of shipwrecks in 1872 but that is all they have in common. This is excessive.

My question is probably best summarised as "Has a bot gone crazy?" Can someone experienced explain or correct this strange behaviour? Thanks in advance Viking1808 (talk) 15:54, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I'll leave this help request open because it puzzles me. I mean, isn't it a good thing that readers can find the Thorsen article, even if it's just through the {{1872 shipwrecks}} navigation box in other articles' footers? Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 16:52, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
No, there is no crazy bot. There have been additions to the {{1872 shipwrecks}} template in recent days and that template has been added to some additional articles. When this happens, the software reports that as an new link from the page where the template was added to each of the other pages that already had the template. If these link notifications are bothering you, you can turn them off in your preferences. — jmcgnh(talk) (contribs) 19:28, 23 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for the explanation, and preferences changed. Viking1808 (talk) 23:12, 23 February 2021 (UTC) @Jmcgnh:[reply]

HMS Attack (1804)

Hi Viking1808: I have just put up HMS Attack (1804). In 1812 Danish gunboats captured her. If you have anything to add to the account of her capture or subsequent career in Dano-Norwegian hands that would be great. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 02:43, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Working on it, but much later today.

1812 (18-19 August) squadron of gunboats under Falsen based on Samsøe (island) captured the brig Attack northeast of Grenaa.
Viking1808 (talk) 08:34, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

See my notes at User:Viking1808/Sandbox 3 for the Danish sources capturing HMS Attack. Please lift and rewrite anything there that fits your new article. there are several new wikilinks possible. Viking1808 (talk) 18:35, 15 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Acad Ronin:

Hi @Acad Ronin: The new article Broder Knud Brodersen Wigelsen may be of passing interest to you. Viking1808 (talk) 22:06, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Viking1808: – you mention HMS Attack in the info box in the article, but not in the text. Also, you mention HMS Seagull in the text, but not in info box. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 22:45, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi again @Acad Ronin: Both ships are mentioned in both places - you just missed them! But thanks for the comment. I have also had a message from a reviewer @Mccapra: that the new article is an orphan - temporarily correct, but with lots of links potentially back from the likes of Seagull, and Attack, and St George once I get round to them. User:Ramblersen2 (see below) has come up with a new Danish source which I did not know about and which will need deep study. Viking1808 (talk) 09:33, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Broder Knud Wigelsen

Hi Viking1808: This source memtions an intermezzo between HDMS Lougen and HMS Childers which is not mentioned in the Wigelsen article – I don't know if it has your interest and if you are aware of it already. The same source also contains what I find a quite nice quote from his diary regarding the capture of HMS Seagull which you may (or may not) want to translate and include in the Wigelsen or Seagull articles.Ramblersen2 (talk) 23:19, 1 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Ramblersen2: Ah! Yes! My Wigelsen references do not mention HMS Childers by name, but do record the action against a brig on the appropriate date (as mentioned in the article). I will edit this in and cross reference in due course. See also above, headed HMS Attack. Your source is new to me - the history of all the Wigelsens, it seems - and will much improve the article once I have studied it!

Is there any chance you can find copies uploadable to Wiki of the paintings of Wigelsen and his wife, also that of HMS Safeguard being towed into Udbyhøj,Randers Fjord (useable here, but also in a future article) and that of his gravestone at Holmens kirkegaard.? While on the question of paintings, the Danish frigate Thetis (1840) seems to have a painting at Kronborg museum - again, for a future article, can you find an uploadable version?
Viking1808 (talk) 10:05, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The images of Wigelsen, his wife and Safeguard can now be found on Wikipedia Commons in Category:Broder Knud Wigelsen. As for the painting of Thetis at Kronborg you are referring to, I assume it will now be located in the new Danish Maritime Museum. Here are my search results for Thetis, could it be No. 2 or 3 of them? I have for now uploaded another painting of the same ship by Carl Dahl from Thorvaldsens Museum's website. As for Wigelsen's gravestone, I can try to find it and take some photographs but I am not in Copenhagen at the moment so it will have to wait.Ramblersen2 (talk) 18:35, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Super!!! You and Acad Ronin have been busy - for which, many thanks. for me, Wigelsen seems to incorporate the whole atmosphere of the English/Gunboat Wars. Viking1808 (talk) 19:43, 2 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Poul de Løvenørn

Hi Viking1808. May I ask if you think that there is any chance that you will at some point (not necessarily any time soon) write rear admiral Poul de Løvenørn an article? I think he deserves a well-written and fairly comprehensive article, both for his role in the foundation of the Royal Danish Nautical Charts Archive and the Danish Lighthouse Authority. But I have become quite reluctant to write bios on naval officers after realizing that the handful that I have already written may just have taken the place of much more comprehensive and competent coverage. I am therefore at the moment crossing my fingers for a few names, including Løvenørn, but haven't quite figured out yet which of them could or could not be on your to do-list (hsould you have one).Ramblersen2 (talk) 20:00, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Ramblersen2: Isn't this the same Poul Vendelbo Løvenørn already on Wikipedia that you have already contributed much to? He sounds interesting, but not naval (even if he held the rank of rear admiral at one point (?) he was never a sailor from what I understand) He is not listed as a naval officer in Topsøe-Jensen's book, although at least one of his sons is. I will study the lex.dk link and anything else I can find, then see if we (together) can expand the current article, but it will be a slow job! Viking1808 (talk) 22:43, 19 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oops...I managed to link to the wrong Poul de Løvenørn, I was talking about this feolow. Sprru about wasting your time on reading up on a completely irrelevant person.Ramblersen2 (talk) 08:22, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Ramblersen2: No problem. New reference Topsøe-Jensen Vol 2 pages 155 - 159 as below
  • (in Danish)T. A. Topsøe-Jensen og Emil Marquard (1935) “Officerer i den dansk-norske Søetat 1660-1814 og den danske Søetat 1814-1932“. Two volumes. No longer downloadable (April 2021) - previously available from here. Hard copies are listed in libraries Stockholm, Odense, Ballerup and Copenhagen

Viking1808 (talk) 10:59, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

His biography in Dansk Biografisk Leksikon (should be the right link this time!) is still available online and in itself pretty informative and there is also a quite nice and varied selection of possible illustrations.Ramblersen2 (talk) 11:20, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I can see that the name Poul de Løvenørn has already turned up in your sandbox (great!). I stumbled upon this page which may be useful. Farvandsdirektoratet has also published this book about him in connection with the 200 years' aniversary of the Royal Nattical Charts Archive but it does unfortunately not seem to be possible to access it online.Ramblersen2 (talk) 19:35, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Ramblersen2:Keep watching here, but it will take a long time to build the article from the many references available. Tusind tak Viking1808 (talk) 22:26, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Mercurius

Hi Viking1808: I have just put up HMS Mercurius (1807). I have nothing on her brief Danish career. If you have anything from your Danish sources I would welcome the addition. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 20:59, 12 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Acad Ronin: feel free to use any of the following

  • From Royal Danish Naval Museum - Shiplist - Mercurius click "vis" to see plans for this Lougen-class brig
  • From Skibregister - there were six Danish warships named Mercurius (1672, 1674, 1677, 1801, 1806, 1837) and one Merkurius (1555). Unfortunately, no record card for Mercurius (1806) is available (perhaps later?).
  • From a search of Topsøe-Jensen for Mercurius (dates 1806 -1807) –

Lieutenant-Captain Peter Johan Wleugel was captain of the brig Mercurius in August and September 1807, crewed by students of the navigation school. The ship was abandoned in Kalvebodstrand (just south of Copenhagen) [1] See googlemap for information.

  • There appears to have been an English privateer frigate in 1782 called Mercurius which upset a Danish captain. (From Topsøe-Jensen, but of no significance here)
  • From Marcussen website, there are fourteen commercial ships named Mercurius (of no significance here)

Have fun Viking1808 (talk) 10:13, 13 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  1. ^ Topsøe-Jensen Vol 2 p725

Fortuna #2

I assume this drawing (source) is of the Andreas Schifter-designed 1825 corvette listed here (more details here) but are there other possible ships by the same name?Ramblersen2 (talk) 16:24, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Ramblersen2:

but when all is said and done, it seems clear that the 19th century drawing of Fortuna must be Schifter's. Fortuna is a popular name! Viking1808 (talk) 19:08, 15 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Also, have you seen Threedecks.org - Fortuna (1825). Does this help? Viking1808 (talk) 16:00, 16 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Area of interest

Hejsa,

I have just created Admiral (Denmark) and List of Danish full admirals, and I thought that you might be interested. Please feel free to add any information that you think is missing, or let me know if you have any comments. I wish I was able to find more information, but there seems to a general lack of information on this area.

Additionally, there are these other old admiral ranks, that I would like to flesh out:

But information for these is even more scares (and sometimes confusing) than on admiral. If you have any info on these I would greatly appreciate it. Skjoldbro (talk) 14:34, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi @Skjoldbro: - you have been busy! I will have some comments later, but real life is rather busy just now. I note that you have found Topsøe-Jensen's book useful. To your list (above) of admiral titles I might add Schoutbynacht which I have always translated as Rear Admiral. Incidentally, look up the word "scarce" as opposed to "scares". pronunciation is the same. mvH Viking1808 (talk) 08:37, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yeah, I get that. It is a really good book, it was super useful for creating Chief of the Royal Danish Navy, as no other sources really explored pre 1932 navy leadership. Currently, I have found Garde, Hans Georg (1861). Den dansk-norske sømagts historie 1535-1700. to be a useful book for even older information, though the language is a bit old fashioned ;)
It helped with finding the various Danish Rigsadmiraler. However, it also created even more confusion, as the list of other old admiral rank/titles have expanded even more; with:
Seems like it might be a never ending project to create pages/lists/information on all of them. Skjoldbro (talk) 10:51, 10 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @Skjoldbro: - I am not sure that this would be approved under Wikipedia rules, but how about ONE new page called Danish Admirals - list of archaic titles where the ranks are ordered from highest (possibly with links to the Danneskiold-Samsøe admirals who held post directly under the monarch) to the lowest.? Quote the dates such old ranks were known to be used. This would open up the field for other editors to agree/disagree or add further information. Such a page could have several categories Category:17th-century Danish naval officers or Category:18th-century Danish naval officers or Category:Danish admirals or Category:Royal Danish Navy admirals. It might work and a working solution of what to call all the admirals might emerge. If you like the idea, I wish you luck!! Viking1808 (talk) 17:29, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry to barge in but wouldn't it be better to include such a list as a section in the existing Admiral (Denmark) article? Having too many overlapping articles is in my opinion rarely a good path to go down, it often ends up in repetitions and makes it harder for the casual reader to find the information they are after.Ramblersen2 (talk) 18:17, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Nomination of Fortuna (captured ships)(1805 - 1812) for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Fortuna (captured ships)(1805 - 1812) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fortuna (captured ships)(1805 - 1812) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

Clarityfiend (talk) 12:07, 14 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

HMS Tickler (1804)

Hi Viking1808, I have just put up HMS Tickler (1804), which the Danes captured in 1808. If you have any Danish info on her subsequent career and disposition I would be glad to add it. That aside, I hope you are well in these difficult times. Best wishes for the holiday season and for the New Year. Acad Ronin (talk) 02:29, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is a record (see here) that The Tickler (the captured English brig/brigantine) was sold in 1815. Having clicked on "The Tickler" to reveal this basic information, click "vis" for a plan of the ship drawn up by the Danes in July 1808.Note spelling (den erobrede engelske Brig Tiechler) on the plan.
Additionally, I seem to remember reading that our beloved HMS Falcon supplied HMS Tickler with (?water) while they were both in the Great Belt in late March/early April. I would need to go deep into my various notes on Falcon to confirm this.

Real life is making wiki research difficult for me for now, so I am taking a back seat after thirteen years of enjoyable ship chasing. I will however try to answer any queries thrown at me. Thanks for your friendship (and that of many other wiki editors) throughout that time. Viking1808 (talk) 07:52, 25 December 2021 (UTC) @Acad Ronin:[reply]

Hi Viking1808, sorry to hear that you are having to take a back seat. I do hope your situation improves. As you can see, I have added the plans you found, but clearly there is much more potentially findable in Danish sources. Anyway, my best wishes to you for the New Year. Acad Ronin (talk) 19:09, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Once more Hi again!@Acad Ronin:

I see you have found a continuation of Tickler in the ship Frederikke Louise. The Danish website (http://www.jmarcussen.dk/maritim/skibsliste/side.php?id=18799) confirms this and may give a clearer reference. This website is listed on my user page as http://www.jmarcussen.dk/maritim/skibsliste/liste.php?ini=%C6 for a private website listing all danish merchant ships from the year dot. Listed alphabetically (nb Æ, Ø, and Å come at the end of the Danish alphabet)

and thank you for your good wishes. Merry Christmas Viking1808 (talk) 19:30, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I just found a complete history of the vessel from her origins as a RN brig to her seal hunting days. The author found her naval log books and many later sources. Unfortunately it is in Danish. But it exists an perhaps some day some other Danish-fluent editor will find it and draw on it to flesh out the existing WP article. All the best, Acad Ronin (talk) 19:47, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Acad Ronin: A puzzle - where is Iskav (no seals in Istambul?) If the word is Is hav (with an H, not a K) this would translate from the Danish as "ice sea" -- perhaps northern Norway or Spitzbergen could be logical. Viking1808 (talk) 13:59, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Viking1808 I checked the pdf article and you are correct, it was the "nordlige Ishav". I have corrected the article. Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 16:15, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Viing1808 I hope that I am not bothering you too much. Still, I found a record of her catches as a sealer. There is one term that puzzles me "fade spæck", which appears to mean something blubber. Is fade a term for a container such as a barrel or cask? Unfortunately, the online translating machines can cope with the "fade". Any ideas. Cheers? Acad Ronin (talk) 18:07, 26 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Acad Ronin:Øl fra fad is draft beer from the cask or barrel. Spæk (no "c" in modern Danish) is blubber. If the context fits, it appears to be barrels (or casks) of blubber . Would the ship have been rendering the blubber to oil, I wonder? Have fun Viking1808 (talk) 14:01, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks.That's (barrels of blubber) is what I have gone with. They may have rendered some elephant seal or walrus oil. I don't know if the full article makes it any clearer. I am not worried. One of the good things about WP is that overtime errors get corrected. Regards, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:39, 27 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Change in URL for Danish Naval Museum

There appears to be a lost connection in the standard url address for the many HDMS ships and the Danish Naval Museum in total eg on the article for HDMS Najaden (1796. but the information can still be found via this archive link to Holmens Skatte and following the trail via DATABASE > SIMPEL > Danske Navne > where you will find the list of ships that we know so well. Unfortunately, I do not have the energy to chase up and change all the links affected on Wikipedia but perhaps this note will be of use to other editors. @Acad Ronin: Viking1808 (talk) 14:34, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the info. Now I just need to remember this when I next encounter a problem. I wish they would go to permalinks. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 17:08, 11 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

HMS Brev Drageren (1807)

Hi Viking1808: I got a question from another editor about where this vessel was built. We have Nyholm Dockyard, but another source says Bodenhoffs Plads. Can you shed any light on this? Thanks, Acad Ronin (talk) 15:19, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I see Ramblersen2 is also involved! Otherwise I might have referred you to him. The original reference now seems to be a dead link like so many in this field. Bodenhoffs Plads and Nyholm are in the same general area of Copenhagen (see google Maps), and a quote from https://dbpedia.org/page/Holmen,_Copenhagen says inter alia
"The naval base used to occupy the entire area of Holmen, which was in fact created by a series of landfills to house it, but is now confined to its northernmost island of Nyholm"
So, could both sources be correct?
Unfortunately, the record card on Skibregister has not been archived to the Wayback Machine, so that potential source is missing. Also, Brevdrageren has not given rise to an article on Balsved'd website. Viking1808 (talk) 18:08, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Many thanks for taking the time to check into this. Cheers, Acad Ronin (talk) 18:21, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ramblersen2 and Acad Ronin:

Bodenhoffs Plads is not part of Holmen, It was a private dockyard established on reclaimed land by namesake Andreas Bodenhoff. It is located just south of Arsenaløen, the southernmost of the five Holmen isles, so both can't be right. But quite a few of the navy's ships were built there (outsourced) to designs by Orlogsværftet's own designers. I would therefore expect Bodenhodds Plads to be the correct location (being the more specific information, Nyholm could just be the general area).Ramblersen2 (talk) 19:25, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Ramblersen. That sounds eminently sensible. Your local knowledge is invaluable. Viking1808 (talk) 19:52, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For what it is worth (very little) Brevdrageren's sistership, Fama, is recorded at Skibregister as being built in Copenhagen - which could be either of the above. Viking1808 (talk) 14:41, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]